Scale is not the only factor that matters when comparing similarities between two situations. Coercion is suspect when we're talking about a parent/child relationship just as much a dictatorship is. Anyone who isn't a white straight male is subject to a lot of bullshit, this includes both gays and overweight people.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
"Anti-obesity: The new homophobia?"
- Thread starter SeanR1221
- Start date
- Status
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, it depends on how you want to tackle the issue. If you want to be cynical and condescending, there's probably some truth in asserting that there's a lack of responsibility at play. I'm sure there are some individual examples out there to be found where there's no will or desire to improve their situation, or consideration of change in diet in exercise.
However, the problem at large is clearly more complex than that. I think many prefer to consider that there are a myriad of socioeconomic factors at play.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I get that for many people, being fat is difficult, loosing weight is hard. But I've never seen an obese person get beat-up or lynched, which I have seen happen to gay people. This article is demeening to the issues gay people have gone through. Saying homosexuality is a made up desease? the writer needs to go f**k himself.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
If a doctor chooses not to treat preventable diseases then it's their prerogative. All that should be asked is that they are professional about the situation. There is an abundance of choice in American society and if a group of people is not being serviced, but the demand is there, then someone will fill it.
If a Doctor believes that because obesity is preventable, they will refuse service, then their restrictions shouldn't stop there. People who use drugs, drink excessively, and smokers should also be turned away.
If a Doctor believes that because obesity is preventable, they will refuse service, then their restrictions shouldn't stop there. People who use drugs, drink excessively, and smokers should also be turned away.
Escape Goat
Member
because bread.
Primarily the secretion of insulin and insulin resistance, which are caused by the consumption of carbohydrates. While most people can probably handle just about any amount of them (except sugar, most likely,) a significant minority can't. You're telling them that they're lazy and eating too much (which does tend to happen after you become obese - therefore many fat people are convinced that's what happened) and talking down on them as if you're just a better person.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Lynched? no. Beat up and bullied relentlessly most of their lives? absolutely.
fixed
bread is fine. It may even be really healthy, if it's whole wheat bread. But if you put lots and lots of sugar in it, it's bad.
Are you saying around 35% of the population in the US just can't handle carbs? Genuine question: how come countries with high-ish carb diets like Japan can have low obesity rates? I'd say involves a lot of factors, including portion sizes and overall dietary habits.
Also, I feel like its worth mentioning, people don't suddenly wake up obese. It sneaks up on you, especially if you were relatively lucky with your weight despite a bad diet in your younger years.
Then it gets to the point where you realise something ought to be done, but you feel like shit and don't know what to do. By that point your body is conditioned to feel a certain way about foods and it isn't always easy to just get up and do exercise. I've been laughed at when running in public and laughed at in the gym. It takes a strong will to get over that intimidation, especially if you have been teased at school or whatever.
Then it gets to the point where you realise something ought to be done, but you feel like shit and don't know what to do. By that point your body is conditioned to feel a certain way about foods and it isn't always easy to just get up and do exercise. I've been laughed at when running in public and laughed at in the gym. It takes a strong will to get over that intimidation, especially if you have been teased at school or whatever.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Nothing about whole wheat bread is healthy (unless the alternative is starvation). It's just less bad than white bread or stuff filled with sugar and other junk.
What?
Fiber is good for your colon, you know.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=66
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
1. You really don't need that much fiber to have a proper shit.
2. There are many more sources than just bread from which to get it.
Sugar/HCFS hasn't been as prevalent in Japan as in the United States and the rest of the western world + there may be genetic/economic factors as well.
So? Not every race has been through a holocaust or been sold into slavery en masse recently. But alas, no one says that advocating basic respect for Latinos or Arabs is insulting to Blacks or Jews.
FallingEdge
Member
What's your definition of 'healthy'? Should I avoid bread? No longer eat pizza? Should I put down the fork and not eat this delicious bowl of pasta? These labels with no context make no sense and can be very confusing.
Definition of healthy is (in this thread's context
not causing an insulin response or insulin resistance which both lead to fat storage (o b e s i t y.) So yes, carbohydrates are unhealthy. Some more than others.Jason's Ultimatum
Member
This doesn't make sense? If so, then it's their choice to be fat and unhealthy?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
ALDI hasn't completely expanded either, closest one to me is over an hour away.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Healthy in terms of whether or not a food will have direct adverse effects on your body and general well being.
Yes, you should avoid wheat products if you care about that.
However, they are delicious. Enjoying them on the rare occasion should be okay.
FallingEdge
Member
Definition of healthy is (in this thread's context
I guess this is where we will just agree to disagree as I believe there is nothing wrong with eating carbs (50g-200g) every day.
1. healthy colon is a bit more than having a "proper shit" and it's not just colon anyway (read the link that I supplied)
2. so? You said nothing in whole wheat bread was healthy, but it is because of the fiber. In US it seems they don't process it properly sometimes, so to be exact, I mean actual whole wheat of course ("100% whole wheat" for people in US)
Devolution
Member
Oh the subjective healthy debate where in people make broadstrokes about "healthy" based on either their diet or random shit they've heard not taking into account the individual. Nor the fact that the worst foods are the cheapest and hfcs is in everything.
Lamel
Banned
Are you serious? You're comparing it to THAT? Ridiculous.
Unless you have some kind of medical disorder, you can get off your lazy ass and change your diet and lose the weight.
I realize overweight people are bullied (especially in school), but a comparison to homosexuality is seriously crossing the line.
Unless you have some kind of medical disorder, you can get off your lazy ass and change your diet and lose the weight.
I realize overweight people are bullied (especially in school), but a comparison to homosexuality is seriously crossing the line.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, I'll read it. Although I already notice that it has no mention of the anti-nutrients found in wheat.
Do me a favor and read this article, too:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz24xpuStVZ
There's also a great book called Wheat Belly if you feel like reading more on the subject.
I'm not going to demonize a macro-nutrient without any context. I get a decent number of carbs every day (although probably never more than 100g) from fruits and vegetables.
This is why I don't really like talking about macro-nutrients while ignoring the source. For example, people who put fat from foul partially hydrogenated vegetable oils in the same group as fat from cold pressed extra virgin olive oil or fat from grass-fed beef. It's just crazy.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I tend to stay out of the debate to an extent because I'm no dietary expert, and because there's always so much disagreement in regards to what an ideal diet truly should be versus a weight-loss diet, but my layman understanding of the situation is that while some types of carbs are fine and in fact healthy, overall, cutting carbs tends to be one of the more effective methods of weight loss. Further, I think it's generally understood that the typical nutritional info on packaging overestimates how many carbs one needs.
Mind you, I'll defer to people who know more than me. However, it's always difficult to get to the crux of the issue, as many people of apparent knowledge on the topic will often advocate different ideals.
FallingEdge
Member
Understandable. And again, I've said this multiple times but it comes down to your goals and what you are currently doing in addition to your diet. I've got friends who compete in contests and cut down to 5-6% bf and still eat 200-300g of carbs daily. They of course, have it down to a science and know what works for them. And I understand that this won't work for everyone and that each person will act differently to the foods they eat.
If you feel great eating low carb and are losing fat and that is what you want, do it. If you can eat 200g of carbs and are staying active at the gym and losing fat, do that as well. There is no one answer to everything. I just don't like the idea that carbs are bad. Can't eat bread, wheat, pasta, rice, fruits, etc. Do what works for you and what you feel comfortable with the most.
Of course. You seem to be well informed and it would be unfair to go down that route without the appropriate info.
Devolution
Member
Honestly it's more dependent on the person. There are dietary things they can do but it comes down to different measures quite often. For some it's avoiding fried foods for others it's a complete portion size reduction. When these people get mixed messages, no one is actually helping them.
The article is dumb, but taking the quote on it's own you could interpret 'ought' and 'should' as pertaining to their worth as human beings as opposed to health. Also, sup.
You can believe whatever you want, doesn't make it any less factually incorrect. Although I do believe the high end of acceptable carbs even in ketosis is in that range.
Obesity leads to just about every major western illness, any food that contributes to that should be considered unhealthy. Obviously it exists on a spectrum and there are different expectations for people who are losing weight/prevention/age groups/genders/etc. But we shouldn't kid ourselves into calories in = calories out.
crazygambit
Member
And they work. If you decide to show up for the gym longer than a month. A lot of gyms make all their money selling year long subscriptions at a much lower monthly price because they know most people will quit long before the year is up. Because they decide they didn't really want to be in shape. Like I said 100% of fat people would take you up on the offer to trade in for a fit body, but if it takes any actual work then that percentage is a lot smaller.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Oh, I agree. I tend to disagree with the notion that there's any one-size-fits-all solution to a good, healthy diet. I was just commenting that based on a quick investigation into the matter, though the longterm benefits tend to be in question, there seemed to be a general consensus that cutting carbs was one of the more effective short term methods for weight loss. Not that I personally advocate it universally, as I'm certainly no authority on the matter.
Devolution
Member
Technically yes but the calories is less of an issue for some than the kinds of things they are eating. I see a lot of fat shaming consistently but no movements to ban HFCS in foods.
FallingEdge
Member
Ketosis is usually < 50g a day. And of course it can be compared to calories in vs calories out. How do you explain people who lose fat but are consuming 200-300g of carbs a day? I'm not saying that is the only answer for fat loss but is one of many. So really, there is nothing wrong with carbs.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html
To put this in perspective, you could have Subway for lunch everyday and still being under 50g.
Uh
smh
That's someone with a personal opinion about a scientific study, that he obviously didn't understand. It seems he also didn't understand how a colon works and that a colon needs exercise. For me, I will listen to my doctor instead. But thank you nevertheless.
You know, I got a severe colon disease, I'm quite informed about colons because of that and because of my disease I'm even TOLD TO eat whole wheat breat, when there is no flare-up, because it's exercise for my colon and makes him stronger, which means less weak against the disease. Which is definitely a good thing. And the fiber also works against colon cancer, which I would also consider to be a good thing.
matthewwhatever
Member
I can sort of see where the article's author is coming from. Obese people can have a really hard time coming out of the closet.
If you're not eating carbs your body is actually burning fat stores, meaning you don't need to eat as much to keep up the same expenditure of energy. Choosing to eat carbs and consciously reduce calories is choosing an uphill battle.
That's beside the point, people don't need strenuous exercise (it may even be in some respects detrimental to weight loss,) it's expensive, and it's time consuming. More efficient solutions to problems should be emphasized.
Your body will still burn whatever you eat during the day first, right? So, let's say your body just used those 100 calories worth of carbs you just ate. Doesn't it start burning fat stores then? Serious question, you seem to be very informed about this and I find it very interesting.
numbers are made up and simplified but this should illustrate what i'm saying:
eat 500 cal of carbs pure carbs every meal, 100 is stored and 400 is used out of your daily 2000. so if you eat 2000 calories throughout the day, you're going to be 400 calories short and needed to another 500 cal meal so you've eaten 2500 calories.
off carbs, you're body burns 500 cal throughout the day and so you're only hungry for 1500 calories of fat/protein. you eat 1500 calories.
trying to lose weight while on carbs is difficult because carbs are essentially what causes most excess fat to store
yes, a small amount of carbs is ok - and almost unavoidable. however, reducing your intake by as much as you can is indeed beneficial to your health and crucial for obese people trying to lose weight. you can lose weight on carbs, but it is harder and less effective.Ketosis is usually < 50g a day. And of course it can be compared to calories in vs calories out. How do you explain people who lose fat but are consuming 200-300g of carbs a day? I'm not saying that is the only answer for fat loss but is one of many. So really, there is nothing wrong with carbs.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html
Deified Data
Banned
I passionately hate these threads, and am loathe to get myself in another quagmire. I'm going to do a drive-by post and leave. Might respond after, might not.
Point One: Obesity shouldn't be encouraged in society for health reasons, but neither should people be made to feel less for being obese.
Point Two: You have the right to hate someone for being obese, but keep in mind that it's no different than hating anyone else for a life choice they made. If you happen to dislike obese people, kindly keep your trap shut the next time you feel like railing into an islamaphobe - you've more in common than you might think.
Point Three: If the thought of someone's obesity increasing your own insurance premiums fightens you, kindly relocate to a cave in the woods if you find living in a mutually-supportive society to be so repellant.
That is all.
Point One: Obesity shouldn't be encouraged in society for health reasons, but neither should people be made to feel less for being obese.
Point Two: You have the right to hate someone for being obese, but keep in mind that it's no different than hating anyone else for a life choice they made. If you happen to dislike obese people, kindly keep your trap shut the next time you feel like railing into an islamaphobe - you've more in common than you might think.
Point Three: If the thought of someone's obesity increasing your own insurance premiums fightens you, kindly relocate to a cave in the woods if you find living in a mutually-supportive society to be so repellant.
That is all.
...he'll be back.
not_so_special
Banned
hating fat people on gaf gets a free pass i suppose.
Im an a very good shape ( its part of my job) and i still dont get why many gaffers hate fat people,maybe they were fat on the past and is some sort of therapy,dont know.
Im an a very good shape ( its part of my job) and i still dont get why many gaffers hate fat people,maybe they were fat on the past and is some sort of therapy,dont know.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Or fat.
Lasthope106
Member
I recently made the observation that the suggested recommend amount of calories usually advertised in products, websites, magazines, etc. of around 2.5k Calories is way too high for the amount of physical activity most people do in their daily lives in this country.
We simply are eating too much, and not burning the calories.
We simply are eating too much, and not burning the calories.
Escape Goat
Member
I wonder what the diets look like of the fat people who claim to be seriously exercising. Or what their exercise routine looks like. It seems hard to believe so many are fat because their genes won't allow them to be any other way.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked