Any more input on this? Usually i'm not so cautious with $10 but with so many quality games out now and coming soon I'm being a bit prudent for once in my life.
I thought about creating the OT, but I was not sure I like it enough. I wanted to like it, but in the end I became critical more than anything else. I really, really like the mission based structure that gives some incentive to play levels somewhat differently and the levelling through EXP you gained by accomplishing quests, however this idea is far better integrated in the very fun
Dungeons. I wish Gnomoria/DF had this kind of mode as tutorial though.
One of my biggest gripes is the level visibility:
Like... what? Just look at that mess. And I was NOT randomly digging, but only where the game told me to. Digging games usually alleviate that by going either two dimensional completely (Terraria as 2D sidescrolling, Dungeons as flat 2D without digging higher or up) or if digging down/up is possible, by allowing the player to adopt a playstyle that:
a) gives freedom to design the fortress in a way that wont look like an impossible knot
b) usually also makes sure that you can do a lot on the same plane and arent in need of constant plane switching.
The example of Dwarf Fortress/Gnomoria allow lots of digging on the same 2D plane, you could even do the WHOLE fortress on a single plane if you wanted, so that constant plane switching is not really necessary.
A Game of Dwarves however, is less about micromanaging/building a functioning and well-arranged fortress than about finding areas that might contain the item of your quest objective.
This approach results in 2 main issues:
1. It strips the game of what made Dwarf Fortress as interesting, namely the Fortress building aspect. You never feel like the fortress in AGoD is truly "yours", since you are always pushed to explore the next hidden chamber. It certainly doesnt help that there is no point in dwelling around and expanding/making more rooms to your fortress as everything needed for your dwarves is very quickly set up.
2. Due to the games mission based structure structure of needing to find those chambers, they included a visual clue to guide you to those chambers:
...which I feel is its ultimate downfall. Not only steals it any incentive to actually explore the map, but those hidden chambers are also pretty... useless. They contain monsters and the quest items you need to find. They made the right decision to include these visual clues, since the game, as it is now, would be hardly playable without them, though.
And another big one:
Its too casual without carving its own niche.
1. There is no micro managing your fortress other than making sure to have beds and a food table every few steps. It feels like "dig-dig-dig-put bed/table-dig-dig-dig-put bed/table-dig-dig-dig-put bed/table" is the only thing you actually do once your beginning is set up (food/wood production). There are some exceptions like putting up traps, but basically thats it.
2. No proper production lines. This is the part where they went too casual for this kind of game. Its the RTS-Warcraft/C&C approach:
You get stuff and its immediately put in your storage, where everyone in the fortress can access it. This completely destroys the idea of building that fortress in the first place, and leads to the aforementioned issue of the fortress layout being completely unimportant. Even
Dungeons did this better.
A few other small things:
1. The game does not give you proper indicators of whats happening, like a Dwarf stumbling in a hole you accidentally dug out and then dying from hunger without the game telling you. The other digging games alleviate that usually by making it really hard to get your Dwarves in such a situation.
2. Open a random room containing a level 16 enemy 3 floors below your starting position and you are done for. The only way to be prepared for this is to build militia and a LOT of stupid waiting for your researcher to find some upgrades and for your soldiers to train enough to take them on. Even worse: This random enemy placement ensures that you basically would need to waste 1-2 hours on the start of every Custom map just levelling your soldiers for the case of such an enemy being near you before you explore anything.
I think their concept was fundamentally flawed. They took the blueprint of a game, tried to casualize it for a wider audience and went to far. In short, I'd differentiate the games mentioned in this post as follows:
Dwarf Fortress: Most complex game ever created. High entry barrier, unappealing graphics for many (though simple tile sets alleviate some of that), unintuitive UI and no mouse control. Very rewarding building, exploring and learning process.
Gnomoria: Basically an in progress copy of DF with proper mouse input. Same management foundation as DF and very similar game structure, less complex game mechanics, however much more intutive. Very rewarding building and partly learning process. Exploring is only secondary as it does not contain proper interesting premade "caves"
A Game of Dwarves: Simple&fast to learn. No depth at all. Building your own fortress is still somewhat amusing in the "Sims" - decorate kind of way, but fails to create any real long term incentives as the above mentioned games do. Mission based structure and EXP are a neat concept, that unfortunately only allow for some short term fun and progress as they fail to really differentiate the levels from each other.
Dungeons: The game of those 4 that has the least in common with DF, but feels like being the blueprint for the mission and EXP structure of AGoD. As I stated in that thread, it managed to create its own... idea of what a digging game might be with some tower defense bits thrown in, and less "fortress management". Very interesting missions/levels that actually make the levels feel different, in contrast to AGoD. They casualized quite a few aspects in this game as well, but managed to give it its own "twist", so as to feel like it might be indeed its own thing.
Casualizing a complex genre isnt necessarily bad, as I still really liked Dungeons, however, even though there are some flaws they might fix down the line, I think they went a step too far with AGoD, which unfortunately gives it some issues that wont be possible to adjust by mere patches or even addons.
DF >>>>> Gnomoria >>>>>>>>>>Dungeons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AGoD
(Towns somewhere in between probably too, havent played that yet though)
Edit: Some 30 minute impressions.
+It does not feel like a $10 game
+Seems pretty in depth, more then I expected
-Navigating and digging multiple levels of depth can be cumbersome.
-Can't refill areas you have dug out. (Dev response says this may be changed). You can build bridges and walls.
In response to his points as well:
1.+2. The charme initially had me as well for the first 40-50 minutes or so (basically the trial area) and its definitely solidly programmed. However, due to the fact that each mission revolves around the same, I started to see the limitation of this game way sooner than I expected. More than $10 would be borderline ripoff.
3. Navigating/digging is a PITA, especially due to the aforementioned focus of this game.
4. I think I saw a "wall" to be build? I agree though, its an annoyance, especially since you can fuck up your fortress layout by accidentally digging below your fortress.
No offense, Suikoguy
You'll probably notice the same as well if you play a bit more. Its really unfortunate.
