I meant LITERALLY the last minute
When Sara goes and pays her final respect to joe and it zooms in on his hair.
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Looper (dir. Rian Johnson; Gordon-Levitt, Willis)
- Thread starter Expendable.
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I meant LITERALLY the last minute
When Joe's with the hooker earlier in the film, he explains how he likes to have his hair stroked like his mother did to him as a child. It's a callback to that.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
It actually doesn't make sense why Young Joe thinks that.
There was no reason for him to think that Old Joe wouldn't kill the kid after killing Sara. Also, the Rainmaker was created from completely different circumstances in Old Joe's timeline. So there was actually zero reason for Young Joe to conclude that 1) Old Joe wouldn't kill him and 2)even if he got away, that he would become the Rainmaker.
Which is why I am so confused,
does that mean Cid is Joe because that makes no sense? Or was it just a message of hope saying Cid will not become the rainmaker in the future?
Young Joe's grown attached to the kid and Sara. Having them wiped out isn't exactly a win-win for him.
This I agree with, to an extent. I've rationalised it, sort of, by thinking that the Rainmaker isn't necessarily that bad a guy. You know, as crime kingpins go.
SPOILERS.
EDIT: MORE SPOILERS:
I imagine Joe told Sara about the hair thing after sexing her. Cid and Joe being the same person creates way more problems than it solves. The future where Cid did become the Rainmaker is one, presumably, where Sara didn't prematurely get killed. Which is confusing. Edit2: But you have a point.
Actually the explanation to that is simpler than you think.
If Joe never showed up the kid would have never learned a lesson and Sara would have died in an accident like her sister leading to the Rainmaker. It is purely speculation but I couldn't see the kid growing up right going the path he was going without Joe/
Probably been posted, but just incase:
2005 is a dead ringer for Ledger.. Jebus.
Probably been posted, but just incase:
hahaha perfect
Oh god, that unexpected Bruce Willis scared the shit out of me.
Anyway, saw the movie opening night an enjoyed it a great deal but I definitely felt like some of the popular criticism against it is justified. The whole
. Apart from that it just felt a bit out of place to me.
Apart from that I thought that JGL's performance was really good despite me hating the character and all of his douchey self-centered decisions. I really have to tip my hat though to Bruce Willis, this is really the best performance he's given in something in a VERY long time. The child actor playing Cid was also good in a supernaturally creepy/gruesome sort of way, it reminded me a lot of Osment in The Sixth Sense (also with Bruce Willis) having watched that just last week. I got a good laugh out of my friend by saying "Yippie Kay-aye motherfucker" during the
.
Overall I think it's a piece of film that is definitely aware of the contradictory nature of the time travel genre. The scene with Bruce Willis
. Of course though, this could just be me thinking WAY too much into a film that isn't meant to answer questions like that anyway. It's definitely more akin to Source Code than Primer and I don't mean that to sound like a sleight against the film in any way. I'm simply saying that it isn't the kind of film that deserves to be picked apart for every little inconsistency in the way that the more self-serious Primer was.
One of my favorite films of the year.
Anyway, saw the movie opening night an enjoyed it a great deal but I definitely felt like some of the popular criticism against it is justified. The whole
telekinesis angle of the story seemed like such an afterthought to me that only existed to give Jesse a cool death and explain the enigmatic nature of the Rainmaker a bit more
Apart from that I thought that JGL's performance was really good despite me hating the character and all of his douchey self-centered decisions. I really have to tip my hat though to Bruce Willis, this is really the best performance he's given in something in a VERY long time. The child actor playing Cid was also good in a supernaturally creepy/gruesome sort of way, it reminded me a lot of Osment in The Sixth Sense (also with Bruce Willis) having watched that just last week. I got a good laugh out of my friend by saying "Yippie Kay-aye motherfucker" during the
looper mafia base shootout
Overall I think it's a piece of film that is definitely aware of the contradictory nature of the time travel genre. The scene with Bruce Willis
explaining the impossibly complex nature of time travel in the bar with JGL seemed like it was a slight wink to the film's warped sense of time travel mechanics. I thought it was a way of having the film acknowledge that there were inconsistencies with some of the logic that many people criticized the end of the film for
One of my favorite films of the year.
undrtakr900
Member
Just saw the movie yesterday, i though it was great, once of the best movies I've seen all year. JGL is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors since 500 Days of Summer.
Did anyone else think JGL looked like the first Max Payne game? I swear that's all I saw whenever they did a close up, with his scrunched up face lol
I always wondered why they have the whole poster in Chinese, but have the title in English letters?I just like this poster
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Because its an American movie and English gives it Western cache. English is also the world's second language, so a lot of Chinese people can read it. Above it there's a more prominant Chinese title too.
The big Chinese signs is the title, roughly meaning "Looping Emissary", they just have the original one underneath as well.
undrtakr900
Member
Oh okay, well that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Loved the film gaf, and on the train home now, Joe did good
Neuromancer
Member
Something I noticed. In the trailer:
In the movie, the sign said "LOOPER'S BLUNDERBUSSES HERE"
So, did the marketing people who made the trailer think that people wouldn't know what a blunderbuss was, and that their ignorance would make it less likely that they would go see the movie?
In the movie, the sign said "LOOPER'S BLUNDERBUSSES HERE"
So, did the marketing people who made the trailer think that people wouldn't know what a blunderbuss was, and that their ignorance would make it less likely that they would go see the movie?
ghostofsparta
Member
Damn good movie. I'm really surprised it didn't get huge.
The only thing that confused me and made me think that Cid was/is Joe is the final scene when young joe gets the "memory", or whatever it was about Old Joe shooting Sara. At first I thought it was a memory and Joe was Cid on the train, because earlier he said something about being on a train alone. Also the hair rubbing Sara did to Joe and how the movie kept going back and forth between Joe and Cid. But it just doesn't make sense for Joe to be Cid. Idk man, idk.
Expendable.
Member
It's cool to track the development since it was first announced.
That was a weird thing to change. And the movie does make a point about the difference between blunderbusses and other guns, so it makes sense for it to say what it does in the movie.
Another thing I noticed in the trailers/commercials was a shot of Old Joe's face looking like it is turning to ash. I don't remember that from the movie.
Something I noticed. In the trailer:
In the movie, the sign said "LOOPER'S BLUNDERBUSSES HERE"
So, did the marketing people who made the trailer think that people wouldn't know what a blunderbuss was, and that their ignorance would make it less likely that they would go see the movie?
Could be an older take, I seem to recall there were another rifle already in the slot when he put his there. Or it's the same reason marketing completely removed the family plot-line, was marketed purely as a no-brains actioneer.
Citizen_Insane
Member
Just a random thought I felt like sharing, but I've been thinking about it, and it seems to me like
the Rainmaker wasn't even a bad dude. We're only led to believe that he's this evil villain because the protagonist is a Looper and he's effectively killing them off, but I think a lot of people I know who saw it have forgotten the fact that Looper's are criminals and assassins. They're used by the mobs of the future to kill off people they need to get rid of. I don't think the film was even explicitly clear that the targets they get are bad people. If the Rainmaker was ending the loopers, it's safe to assume that he also would have been possibly getting rid of the mobs as well or at the very least weakening their power. If anything, the Rainmaker was doing a good thing for the future. Old Joe's primary reason for wanting to kill him was because his wife died, and that was hardly the fault of the Rainmaker himself and more of just an idiot goon. He tried to kill 3 kids, and succeeded with one, further proving how much of a selfish asshole the guy is regardless of age because he didn't even trying to find further proof which one was it. Murdering children for the hope of changing the future that, considering how complicated time travel is, might not have even worked. She could have still died somehow, or maybe they might not have even met because Young Joe would refuse to even go to China this time around because he wouldn't want to turn into someone who kills children. Time travel, man.
Dr. Pangloss
Member
My favorite scene was when Old Joe and Young Joe are in the diner. Very nicely written and acted.
yeah, that's what i thought, too. old joe was a bastard through and through, despite believing he had changed for the best. i mean shit, the guy had 30 years to do whatever he wanted with his life, and he just killed a bunch of people.
I thought it was made explicitly clear that the Rainmaker was a mob boss and that in the future mobs were running many cities. News reports were speaking about him/her as a kind of villain/criminal. It reminded me of the stories of the evil crime lord in The Usual Suspects.
The Rainmaker was retiring loopers because he knew/suspected? his identity would be discovered and revealed by a looper.
Time travel is a crazy drug.
Anyway it's just a movie, best to be experienced and remembered for the ride, not the inconsistencies you come up with later.
If Young Joe kills himself. Then all the stuff Old Joe did in Young Joe's present doesn't matter. The entire sequence of events never takes place because Old Joe never comes back, thus the truck with the silver, the killing of the first little boy, Jeff Daniels (and his men) don't die. In fact they don't even begin looking for Old Joe, thus Young Joe never meets the woman in the country and her boy.
Anyway it's just a movie, best to be experienced and remembered for the ride, not the inconsistencies you come up with later.
all it was saying to me was that young joe's sacrifice allowed cid to have a mother. a mom combing their kids hair isn't a super specific thing, it was pure coincidence that sara did this to joe in a motherly moment. was only there to show that she would be able to bring cid up right now.
yep, old joe is a short-sighted ill-tempered dick who doesn't understand things. rainmaker was pretty evil in the future though; he united the gangs that ruled multiple cities to create what sounded like a worldwide mob with most of the power. so he probably didn't make the world expressly worse considering how shitty it was already, but he sure as hell didn't make it better and he did turn it into an effective tyranny. young joe's saving him and sara means that cid can grow up to use his power for good, hopefully.
No.
The Rainmaker was retiring loopers because an old future looper killed his mom in the past.
Nah.
The timeline Old Joe came back from was one where he successfully closed his loop before he could affect anything.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I really wish they explained why Cid became the rainmaker in Old Joe's timeline. I think that was crucial for the narrative, because without it, none of the characters or the viewer really know what the fuck is at stake. I think it was a silly omission.
That's exactly what I thought... And everyone thought I was crazy. And I thought I was crazy too.
But you can't deny that there are certain hints dropped to that effect.
Well the reason I said this is because...
Young Joe says he sees the loop of an angry kid becoming the Rainmaker because his mom is killed in front of him and he's left alone.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I thought it was strange for the writing to specifically have Joe say,
I get that Joe could just be projecting, but it causes unnecessary confusion/correlation.
"I was alone on a train as a child" and then they show the exact same future for Cid.
Ken K in the Fresh!!!
Member
watched it last night. great film! so good that I actually dreamt about time travel lol
anyway, I know I shouldn't be too bothered by this but...
anyway, I know I shouldn't be too bothered by this but...
young joe writing "-> BEATRIX" in his arm in the same style as the mobsters did to his best friend, didn't sit too well w me. I know it was a cheap trick by the director to fool the audience into thinking young joe was caught by his pursuers but com' on!
I agree w most that the tk stuff felt tacked on. as if the writer really wanted to convey that the kid was leading a dangerous path where having unrelenting powers, coupled w parental issues, could spell doom for mankind if he continues to go unchecked. sorta like magneto or darth vader or something. the director couldve done a better job fleshing out the tk angle instead of just foreshadowing it in the beginning of the movie
there was some good comedy relief throughout. I especially like the one when in the diner, old joe shoots out a window to jump out of, but jumps through a perfectly intact one instead haha
I agree w most that the tk stuff felt tacked on. as if the writer really wanted to convey that the kid was leading a dangerous path where having unrelenting powers, coupled w parental issues, could spell doom for mankind if he continues to go unchecked. sorta like magneto or darth vader or something. the director couldve done a better job fleshing out the tk angle instead of just foreshadowing it in the beginning of the movie
there was some good comedy relief throughout. I especially like the one when in the diner, old joe shoots out a window to jump out of, but jumps through a perfectly intact one instead haha
Time travel is stupid, but the film was entertaining. People really need to stop trying to analyze the movies sequence of events. The film didn't give a shit about the consequences of time travel and altering the future. It doesn't make sense and can't really be shoved into a frame where it does.
Zoramon089
Banned
Well no one said HE was the one to do it...but it's a reasonable assumption that one of them did which is what caused it
indigo-cyclops
Member
The trailers have me reminded of 12 Monkeys...still debating if I should check this out.
yes this.
honestly gaf, your gaffing(over-analyzing) the fuck out of this story that isn't that confusing.this is all it is.
the narrative explains the rainmakers evolution in that scene. whether or not you like it, that scene where young joe sees all that, is the explanation. nothing more, nothing less.
Which is funny because of how bad that is. Again we come to "time travel is stupid", because
in the Bruce Willis timeline he closed his loop and no one was actively shooting at the kid and his mother.
Time travel was just poorly done in Looper because they didn't give a shit about dealing the logistics of altering the timeline, which is why I'm fine with it and still found it entertaining.
You're looking at it wrong.
There's two timelines created. One where Young Joe kills Old Joe on the spot, collects his gold, travels to China, becomes a badass hitman, and marries his Chinese love. That timeline ultimately ends with his wife getting killed, Old Joe overwhelming his captors, and returning with a vengeance to the past, creating the second timeline. The second timeline is the one followed in the movie, with Young Joe ultimately killing himself.
However, that leads to the bigger inconsistency:
Which timeline results in Old Joe returning to the past with a bag on his head and getting shotgunned immediately? That's never shown or even alluded to, but it has to have existed. I think the movie script would've been a lot tighter if say at the end of the movie, Young Joe never kills himself, but just maims himself in the hand to stop Old Joe from killing Cid. Then they could've included an easter egg only seen on rewatch where the first Old Joe (who gets shot instantly) is missing his hand. So in essence, the two timelines are looping around
If we're talking multiple timelines, why does killing young Joe from Timeline B result in the death of old Joe from Timeline A? Why do they share memories? If timelines are connected enough that people still share the same fate, old Joe still died when young Joe did preventing old Joe from coming back in time and doing the whole movie thing.
Answers? Time travel is stupid.
undrtakr900
Member
That's one part I didn't get..
during that 30 year transition-montage of young Joe to old Joe, why was he still killing all those people? I mean he had his money/women/drugs, shouldn't he be enjoying the time he had left instead of doing hits/killing.
Or was that showing he ran out of money and turned to a life of crime to get more? Can someone explain.
Or was that showing he ran out of money and turned to a life of crime to get more? Can someone explain.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Edit: Beaten
tycoonheart
Member
he ran out of money
I saw this on Saturday. I liked the film but the ending was terrible. I hope the bluray has a decent Alt ending that would please us.
Anyways I thought that
Anyways I thought that
even though both Joe's are stupid and selfish, Young Joe ruined everything.
For instance, why not let Old Joe kill off Cid/his mom and be done with it? Then Old Joe disappears and he lives his life? No! He is selfish and doesnt trust his future self. Why didnt he think of his future wife?? Yea they havent met but its his future wife!!!!
Now old Joe is a prick. I mean he goes back to basically kill off 3 kids. I mean yea its hard to be in his position but doing it randomly is worse as its affecting other innocent people. He should of done more research in the future if he knew he would be going back in time as he got older.
Oh and btw, what Joe has done is basically created a parallel universe. Like there is a Joe that lives his life to the fullest, knowing that he will kill himself later on. Then there is the one where his future self stops his death at his younger self's hand. Each universe having different consequences!
PS: One more thing, did the Future thug in the "past"(Joe's 'mentor') know that old Joe would be killed off in the future? Did he make Joe's death easier by telling him to move to China instead of France on purpose? What if there is a universe where Joe moved to France instead of China and was harder to track/kill off so then the Future thug is sent back to the past with this info to influence young Joe into moving to China instead to ease his future death thus creating another parallel universe?
Well thats all I got.
For instance, why not let Old Joe kill off Cid/his mom and be done with it? Then Old Joe disappears and he lives his life? No! He is selfish and doesnt trust his future self. Why didnt he think of his future wife?? Yea they havent met but its his future wife!!!!
Now old Joe is a prick. I mean he goes back to basically kill off 3 kids. I mean yea its hard to be in his position but doing it randomly is worse as its affecting other innocent people. He should of done more research in the future if he knew he would be going back in time as he got older.
Oh and btw, what Joe has done is basically created a parallel universe. Like there is a Joe that lives his life to the fullest, knowing that he will kill himself later on. Then there is the one where his future self stops his death at his younger self's hand. Each universe having different consequences!
PS: One more thing, did the Future thug in the "past"(Joe's 'mentor') know that old Joe would be killed off in the future? Did he make Joe's death easier by telling him to move to China instead of France on purpose? What if there is a universe where Joe moved to France instead of China and was harder to track/kill off so then the Future thug is sent back to the past with this info to influence young Joe into moving to China instead to ease his future death thus creating another parallel universe?
Well thats all I got.
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