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COMICS! l OT l October Marvel NOW is almost now edition

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They have promised at least ten characters will die. And kinda hinted that not all of the new characters will die.

The book looks awful. The premise is not thought out and carries none of the messages that BR/HG/and such carry.

Just seems horrible.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
1pc9io.jpg

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There some are.

EDIT: WTF?

Here is the link to the thread

http://forums.comicbookresources.co...rena-Preview-art-(Cause-a-friend-sent-me-pics)
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Worth it for the forum freakouts.

http://i.imgur.com/i3Nu2.jpg
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Young Avengers get a new ongoing book and the Runaways get thrown into Murder World. Quick, someone pitch "Runaway Avengers" to Marvel before it's too late!
 
BuddyJoeHooker said:
I consider Gillen one of the top talents at Marvel.

Edit:

I consider Land to be tolerable.
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Go for it then.

crimsonspider89 said:
They have promised at least ten characters will die. And kinda hinted that not all of the new characters will die.

The book looks awful. The premise is not thought out and carries none of the messages that BR/HG/and such carry.

Just seems horrible.
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Arcade is becoming something more than just a joke? Count me in. How do you know that the premise is not thought out or what messages it would carry when the book isn't out yet? All we have is a brief understanding of the situation.
 
So? Why should I care?

The premise of the book is placing teenagers against each other in a thoughtless killing spree. Hopeless claims it will mean more but it will not. The book is going to fail within three months. Took two of the most popular teen teams and said we are going to kill a lot of them off.

And please don't use BR/HG. Both of those instances and greater meanings and had villains involved in the games.

I mean Academy was selling better than several books with no A lister. And Runaways is just huge among fans.

And I have read all interviews. The theme of the book is contrived. Also teen kill books are horrible and lack of taste.

Maybe do this with some of the C list adults that have repeatedly failed to hold any sale.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
So? Why should I care?

The premise of the book is placing teenagers against each other in a thoughtless killing spree. Hopeless claims it will mean more but it will not. The book is going to fail within three months. Took two of the most popular teen teams and said we are going to kill a lot of them off.

And please don't use BR/HG. Both of those instances and greater meanings and had villains involved in the games.

I mean Academy was selling better than several books with no A lister. And Runaways is just huge among fans.

And I have read all interviews. The theme of the book is contrived. Also teen kill books are horrible and lack of taste.

Maybe do this with some of the C list adults that have repeatedly failed to hold any sale.
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"thoughtless killing spree"? Are those their words or yours? You seem to have a lot of feelings about this for someone who does not care.
Never once did I bring you BR/HG. You did. Since you did though, why did those books have greater meanings? Why can't Avengers Arena also have greater meanings if that is the case? Arcade isn't a villain? Were any of the players in those books villains? Aren't they all just trying to fight for their life? Who is a "villain" in stories like that comes clearly from perspective, but perspective does not promise clarity.

I think the real reason why people feel this way is because when you read a book like BR or HG you know the score before you know the characters. That didn't happen here. These are characters people have grown attached to and learned to love. I bet you didn't think for a moment that something like this would ever happen to them. Emotionally, you were not prepared. So where comes the shock to the system. This is why this book will succeed. Because people care about these characters and want to see them make it out alive.

This book is like Marvel's social experiment. All eyes will be on it, no matter how repulsed the face they are attached to is.
 
Battle Royal was a book focusing on the harshness of the Japaneses school system. Hunger Games has a political message as well. What the hell does Avengers Arena have? Go read interviews. I want you to write down how many times death, killing and murder are mentioned.

They are trying to sell it as something much more. Like I said, will last about three months and get cancelled. Fans of these characters have already stated that they will not be buying the book.

And please, I guarantee that half the deaths won't make sense with the powersets. How do you explain keeping Darkhawk, Nico, Reptil, and Hazmat at an island with there powers.Or why the elder heroes won't find them? I am pretty sure Pym would be able to find the island in a moment's notice?

The entire premise is stupid. It does not make any sense.

Also who cares about Arcade being a serious villain?
 
crimsonspider89 said:
Battle Royal was a book focusing on the harshness of the Japaneses school system. Hunger Games has a political message as well. What the hell does Avengers Arena have? Go read interviews. I want you to write down how many times death, killing and murder are mentioned.

They are trying to sell it as something much more. Like I said, will last about three months and get cancelled. Fans of these characters have already stated that they will not be buying the book.

And please, I guarantee that half the deaths won't make sense with the powersets. How do you explain keeping Darkhawk, Nico, Reptil, and Hazmat at an island with there powers.Or why the elder heroes won't find them? I am pretty sure Pym would be able to find the island in a moment's notice?

The entire premise is stupid. It does not make any sense.

Also who cares about Arcade being a serious villain?
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You had me until the last line.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
Battle Royal was a book focusing on the harshness of the Japaneses school system. Hunger Games has a political message as well. What the hell does Avengers Arena have? Go read interviews. I want you to write down how many times death, killing and murder are mentioned.

They are trying to sell it as something much more. Like I said, will last about three months and get cancelled. Fans of these characters have already stated that they will not be buying the book.

And please, I guarantee that half the deaths won't make sense with the powersets. How do you explain keeping Darkhawk, Nico, Reptil, and Hazmat at an island with there powers.Or why the elder heroes won't find them? I am pretty sure Pym would be able to find the island in a moment's notice?

The entire premise is stupid. It does not make any sense.

Also who cares about Arcade being a serious villain?
Click to expand...

Look how tied up you are about the death, killing and murder aspects of the book. You can't expect that to not be a hot topic.

So the message needs to be a political one for it to be good? I don't seem to remember any political messages in Lord of the Flies. I believe they also mentioned that as a reference material. It also featured children being alone on an island and making less than civil choices. That had a lot to do with questioning human nature. Which is just as interesting as a topic. As a matter of fact, the entire idea behind this archetype is the idea of how we pit off our young against each other in competitions of many kinds. Getting the best grades to get into the best schools, for example. You are valued more if you came from a blue ribbon school instead of a public school in the inner city, for a real life example. Having them physically kill each other is just a much blunter means of looking at it.

Unlike you I am not going to make a gaurentee about what happens in the story and how it is written. I don't know Hopeless. Its my understanding he is a brand new writer, so you probably do not either. Why can't Pym find them? Why can't they use their power sets to escape? I suppose we will have to wait to find out.

Well as I just mentioned, I care if they are making Arcade a serious bad guy. Arcade is awesome. I happen to think he is an interesting character with an interesting MO. I suppose Hopeless feels the same way since he is writing this story. Since we seem to think so, that shows you that others out there must as well since the potential is there. Whats the point of this question?
 
Children's Crusade put the nail in the Hulkling/Wiccan coffin imo, i will get Gillen a shot on Young Avengers but it's going to have to be great and reinvent those characters.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
Battle Royal was a book focusing on the harshness of the Japaneses school system. Hunger Games has a political message as well. What the hell does Avengers Arena have? Go read interviews. I want you to write down how many times death, killing and murder are mentioned.

They are trying to sell it as something much more. Like I said, will last about three months and get cancelled. Fans of these characters have already stated that they will not be buying the book.

And please, I guarantee that half the deaths won't make sense with the powersets. How do you explain keeping Darkhawk, Nico, Reptil, and Hazmat at an island with there powers.Or why the elder heroes won't find them? I am pretty sure Pym would be able to find the island in a moment's notice?

The entire premise is stupid. It does not make any sense.

Also who cares about Arcade being a serious villain?
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NOOOOOOOOO not Darkhawk.
 
My take on it is that Avengers Arena is the first X-23 related series from Marvel since her introduction in 2004's NYX that I won't be picking up.

I've been following Laura's journey since the very beginning, so I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't concerned about what may or may not happen to her in this new series... but that's exactly what Marvel is counting on. That's the reason they're throwing established characters like X-23 and Nico Minoru and Hazmat and the rest into the proverbial meat grinder, instead of just new creations; they're banking on readers tuning in out of fear that their favorites are going to die. Maybe Hopeless is indeed planning some deeply personal story with great character moments; but, at the end of the day, Marvel knows that death -- and the fear of it -- will draw readers to this book. Well I'm sorry, but my distaste for an ass-backwards knock-off concept I feel doesn't work within the Marvel Universe overrides my concern for X-23's well-being.
 
sillymonkey321 said:
Children's Crusade put the nail in the Hulkling/Wiccan coffin imo, i will get Gillen a shot on Young Avengers but it's going to have to be great and reinvent those characters.
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Children's Crusade was just an awful, awful series all around. But I trust Gillen with YA. At least if Wiccan still sucks, there is Ms America, Loki and the rest to look forward to.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
My take on it is that Avengers Arena is the first X-23 related series from Marvel since her introduction in 2004's NYX that I won't be picking up.

I've been following Laura's journey since the very beginning, so I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't concerned about what may or may not happen to her in this new series... but that's exactly what Marvel is counting on. That's the reason they're throwing established characters like X-23 and Nico Minoru and Hazmat and the rest into the proverbial meat grinder, instead of just new creations; they're banking on readers tuning in out of fear that their favorites are going to die. Maybe Hopeless is indeed planning some deeply personal story with great character moments; but, at the end of the day, Marvel knows that death -- and the fear of it -- will draw readers to this book. Well I'm sorry, but my distaste for an ass-backwards knock-off concept I feel doesn't work within the Marvel Universe overrides my concern for X-23's well-being.
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See my exact point.
Kizer said:
Look how tied up you are about the death, killing and murder aspects of the book. You can't expect that to not be a hot topic.

So the message needs to be a political one for it to be good? I don't seem to remember any political messages in Lord of the Flies. I believe they also mentioned that as a reference material. It also featured children being alone on an island and making less than civil choices. That had a lot to do with questioning human nature. Which is just as interesting as a topic. As a matter of fact, the entire idea behind this archetype is the idea of how we pit off our young against each other in competitions of many kinds. Getting the best grades to get into the best schools, for example. You are valued more if you came from a blue ribbon school instead of a public school in the inner city, for a real life example. Having them physically kill each other is just a much blunter means of looking at it.

Unlike you I am not going to make a gaurentee about what happens in the story and how it is written. I don't know Hopeless. Its my understanding he is a brand new writer, so you probably do not either. Why can't Pym find them? Why can't they use their power sets to escape? I suppose we will have to wait to find out.

Well as I just mentioned, I care if they are making Arcade a serious bad guy. Arcade is awesome. I happen to think he is an interesting character with an interesting MO. I suppose Hopeless feels the same way since he is writing this story. Since we seem to think so, that shows you that others out there must as well since the potential is there. Whats the point of this question?
Click to expand...

Arcade is lame as shit in general. I give rat's ass about Arcade. Where is he getting the money for this MurderWorld? How is it feasible that Hank Pym cannot locate these kids?

Lord of Flies took normal characters who had not already shown a moral fiber of being heroic at times which all the ones involved have shown. You are proving m y point. These book is just a book that is using killing teenagers to sell. The book is destined to fail. Majority of the buyers of Academy have already stated that they are not going to buy this book as have Runaway fans.
 
CorvoSol said:
I think we can all agree that nobody bothering to talk the woman with most Phoenix experience alive was all their mistakes collectively. I mean, did the writers all forget about Rachel and decide to just not have Hope, Cap, Cyke or anybody ask about this?

Why was WANDA more involved with the Phoenix than Rachel? Rachel at least KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE.
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I can't remember what book it was (WATXM?) but Rachel said on panel somewhere that Hope wouldn't have a problem controlling the phoenix.
 
BuddyJoeHooker said:
Marvel is just trying to reach out to the internet-age kids.
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Can't say I like it.

crimsonspider89 said:
See my exact point.


Arcade is lame as shit in general. I give rat's ass about Arcade. Where is he getting the money for this MurderWorld? How is it feasible that Hank Pym cannot locate these kids?

Lord of Flies took normal characters who had not already shown a moral fiber of being heroic at times which all the ones involved have shown. You are proving m y point. These book is just a book that is using killing teenagers to sell. The book is destined to fail. Majority of the buyers of Academy have already stated that they are not going to buy this book as have Runaway fans.
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Your opinion on Arcade doesn't really prove a point that people don't like the character. This book is not being written exclusively for you. People right here just claimed they thought Arcade is a cool character. You stating that Lord of the flies is a different story than Avengers Arena doesn't really prove a point. These kids have been taught right from wrong a little bit. Sure they have. Human psychology doesn't work that way though. If you are cognitively functioning as you should be, everything takes a back seat to self preservation. Yeah you know killing that little old lady is bad, but if you are in a life or death situation, probability states you are going to find a way to rationalize your actions as morally acceptable given the circumstances and then do what is morally wrong. Or even simpler, in the case of X-23 there is always the
trigger scent
. Can you show me where exactly I proved your point and how?

Did you speak to every fan of said titles or only a select few on a forum here and there? Do you realize how many potential buyers there are compared to the hand full of people you spoke to who, by the way, are making their opinions on snap judgments and literally nothing else (since how could they, unless they have inside information)?

I remember when AvX was "destined to fail" too.

edit: you know what, don't show me where I "proved your point". I think I said what needs to be said on the topic. Now we are just going to go back and forth.

More importantly, that leader.

1349813218.jpg
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No, I have talked to several. The people who are excited about are kill happy people or people who claim that the teenagers are expendable and unpopular.

You proved my point in the fact your counterpoint was about the death of the characters. That proves that this book is nothing but death of fan favorites to bring in cash. Fans of said characters have already seen through this scenario and you still haven't given any plausible way for this scenario to happen. The entire scenario makes as much sense as a GWB Jr speech.
 
crimsonspider89 said:
No, I have talked to several. The people who are excited about are kill happy people or people who claim that the teenagers are expendable and unpopular.


You proved my point in the fact your counterpoint was about the death of the characters. That proves that this book is nothing but death of fan favorites to bring in cash. Fans of said characters have already seen through this scenario and you still haven't given any plausible way for this scenario to happen. The entire scenario makes as much sense as a GWB Jr speech.
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You honestly believe this is the only reason someone could enjoy this book is because they are blood thirsty? Really? Bigotry, thy name is crimsonspider. But thanks for telling me what your "several people" stated. I am sure they were a strong enough number to accurately speak for the entire population of people who may buy this book.

my counterpoint was about the death of the characters.....? Are you talking about when I said that death is a hot topic and then used you as an example of how key words like that catch peoples attention but that doesn't necessarily have to be what a story is about? You mean how the story will have death in it but it doesn't just have to be about teenagers dying? Are you even reading my posts anymore? You want me to give you a plausible way for this scenario to happen? Sure let me just call up Hopeless and ask him for the script of the story, I'll get right to you on that.

As I said before, I said my part. I am finished.
 
Battle Royale have a bunch of social themes. It's an admission that teenagers are fucked up (in a lot of ways represented by various characters) but that in the end of the day, they are human, that they don't need tough love, that is hypocrital to bitch about wanting to be safe and free from these gangbangers lazy teen fucks while not realizing that the adults have the real power and that they are generally not using it well. Like, the sins of the fathers are dumped completely on the sons while laughing about it as an act of justice and order.

Marvel brought up the comparison with their cover, Avengers Academy, with their theme of neurotic Pym, violent Tigra and Stamford Speedball trying to teach kids how not to be supervillains have more of that core hypocrisy that makes Battle Royale feels extra unfair than a criminal who is hated by society putting kids in a situation where the status quo just don't let them out because can't find their location.

And The Children's Crusader was great, hate the right books, GAF! Everybody hate Avengers Arena now!
 
Yeah, the thing to keep in mind when you're trying to play the Battle Royale card is that Battle Royale was pretty fucking grim. In almost any other context I'd be all for a super-powered take on how society is so fucked up young people might as well kill one another, but I don't really want that from current comics, and I don't really want the take Arena seems to be peddling.

(PS: Avengers Academy was all about how being a teen is weird and scary and adults are too worried about what you might become but if we help one another everything can be okay save for the part where someone will use your claws to murder someone)
 
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