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[Dreams-Visions]

"The custom-crafted polyurethane Touch Cover is washable. Spill your gravy on it and then put it under the sink."



http://gizmodo.com/5952078/inside-surface-microsofts-insane-quest-for-gadget-perfection

cool.

on a side note, many portable keyboards can go through a rinse and dry. I was surprised.

 

[Windu]

OP updated.

 

[brain_stew]

Nigh on £500 for the base experience is far too expensive. Microsoft should have included the touch cover with the £399/$500 option.

 

[buhdeh]

Yeah the no cover price should have included the cover. I guess they already know that no one's going to buy one without the cover similar to how no one buys an iPad 2/3 without the smart cover.

 

[ralexand]

Then it's most likely false. RT is a closed ecosystem and only Metro apps through the Store are allowed.

Aren't plugins allowed in the desktop version of IE?

 

[ralexand]

I think we all get it. It's too expensive. For the 1% out there can we talk features etc.

 

[Milchjon]

Bullet points from the Gizmodo article for the clicking impaired:

•The Surface design we know now was initially inspired by a Moleskine notebook. Then a college ruled spiral notebook, carved up with a knife with strung together with scotch tape to resemble the real thing.
•The industrial design team, which Microsoft says had never received outside visitors before, stared at each other with a mix of caution, paranoia, and terror when we walked in, like some isolated indigenous tribe who'd traded spears and arrows for typeface manuals and Pantone swatches. They were up to their neck in dizzying prototype sketches and hugely complex planning diagrams. Their love was manifest.
•Speaking of prototypes, the team's leader says they went through roughly 300 models before arriving at the Surface's current form. They still sit, stacked upon each other like old magazines, in the Surface design studio. Piles and piles.
•Some of these models were unbelievably ugly—one's back was covered in reflective chrome trim.
•The current model is entirely beautiful. One of the most subtle, powerful, and lovely pieces of gadget design I've ever held.
•The sound the keyboard makes when touched was agonized over—it had to sound just as right as it felt. It does. The keyboard, Microsoft says, also knows when its trackpad is being used as a spacebar instead of a trackpad. The keyboard is smart.
•The team used paper printouts of a keyboard and ink-stamped fingertips from hand focus groups in order to craft an optimal button layout that anyone could type quickly on.
•The Surface's proprietary magnesium construction is strong as hell. At one point, a team leader brought out a Surface with skateboard wheels affixed to it and rolled back and forth standing on top. It barely flexed.
•The custom-crafted polyurethane Touch Cover is washable. Spill your gravy on it and then put it under the sink.
•Microsoft is obsessed with chamfers. Our year, 2012, might just be the year of the chamfer. The team spent literally minutes talking about the decision to go from an 0.3 mm chamfer on the Surface's top edge to an 0.5 mm chamfer. It was admitted that the chamfering of the stage Surface was first revealed upon mirrored the exact chamfering of the Surface's frame. Do you realize how crazy that is? The stage was chamfered. Do you realize how much Microsoft loves this computer? There's no shame in googling "chamfer."

Edit: Thank you for the hyperbole, Gizmodo:

Surface just might be the most explosive, crazy-worthy gadget in a long time. Assuming, of course, that it lives up its enormous expectations. I think it will.

 

[brotkasten]

No NFC is a bummer.

 

[LukasTaves]

Yes, it does.

"WinRT desktop will be able to run Java and .NET apps, as well as native apps recompiled for ARM."

What? Where did that came from?

 

[giga]

Aren't plugins allowed in the desktop version of IE?

Not in RT.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

So how crippled is the basic version of Win8 in the cheaper tablet?

 

[Marco1]

So how crippled is the basic version of Win8 in the cheaper tablet?

I want to know this also as I think this is were MS have fucked up.

 

[Milchjon]

No NFC is a bummer.

I think I may have asked that before, but wasn't NFC a requirement by MS for W8?

 

[Windu]

So how crippled is the basic version of Win8 in the cheaper tablet?

the new atoms can handle all of the basic tasks.

I think I may have asked that before, but wasn't NFC a requirement by MS for W8?

there was no NFC requirement, just a NFC tag or something if the device had NFC

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

No NFC is a bummer.

That's so strange. I almost swear I remember seeing them demo NFC copy-paste-like functionality

 

[Milchjon]

How heavy is the Pro's 900g compared to other tablets?
And does it come without Office? Weird.

 

[brotkasten]

How heavy is the Pro's 900g compared to other tablets?
And does it come without Office? Weird.

900g is really heavy for a tablet. The iPad 3 weighs 650g and some people already consider that as too heavy.

But then again, you're a MAN.
MAN UP.

 

[Izick]

I wish RT tablets had Flash. I wish everything could have Flash. Fucking Adobe sucks.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

So how crippled is the basic version of Win8 in the cheaper tablet?

Windows 8 standard is equivalent to home premium. It's the full thing minus some enterprise-level features found in pro and enterprise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8_editions

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Windows 8 standard is equivalent to home premium. It's the full thing minus some enterprise-level features found in pro and enterprise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8_editions

Thats nice. But is that the version coming in the cheaper version of Surface? I remember seeing somewhere that you can only get apps through the windows store a la iPhone.

 

[Cheebo]

I wish RT tablets had Flash. I wish everything could have Flash. Fucking Adobe sucks.

Flash is dead on mobile. On Windows, iOS, and Android. Dead dead dead.


Also I still can't seem to find a single person here who has ordered one. Come on, someone has had to!

 

[Milchjon]

900g is really heavy for a tablet. The iPad 3 weighs 650g and some people already consider that as too heavy.

But then again, you're a MAN.
MAN UP.

You're the worst brand advocate ever, man.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

What? Where did that came from?

Looks Like Dreams-Visions got that from a comment on blogs.windows.com:

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/.../04/16/announcing-the-windows-8-editions.aspx

Pretty sure that is completely untrue.

If you want to write an app for a Surface RT tablet.. you are submitting said app to the Metro store.. and the app is written for Metro.

Yes, they use C#/VB.net but to say it runs .Net apps is false.

Right?

Good lord this product launch has been confusing.. lol

 

[Anton Sugar]

Thats nice. But is that the version coming in the cheaper version of Surface? I remember seeing somewhere that you can only get apps through the windows store a la iPhone.

Yes, Windows RT will only run Metro/store apps, with the exception of Office 2013 (which is pre-installed).

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Yes, Windows RT will only run Metro/store apps, with the exception of Office 2013 (which is pre-installed).

Hmm interesting. Well it might be worth it after all if its not a ios type OS, functionality wise.

 

[Emily Chu]

Does either one have GPS or gyroscopes or acceleromoters etc inb4 its not a phone.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Does either one have GPS or gyroscopes or acceleromoters etc inb4 its not a phone.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

How heavy is the Pro's 900g compared to other tablets?
And does it come without Office? Weird.

For 10-12" tablets:

• 2lbs (900g) is about normal for Intel Core tablets.
  
• 1.5lbs is about average for ARM and Atom tablets, however there are some really light tablets like the Asus Vivo Tab RT that are getting close to 1lb.

I have a little more issue with the thickness of the Surface Pro as 13.5mm is at the upper end of tablets (not counting convertibles with attached keyboards). Most Intel Core tablets are under 12mm thick. The Asus Transformer Book and the Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro are both less than 12mm thick.

The Surface Pro is an inch smaller screen and does have the smart cooling system as well as the kickstand though.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

Thats nice. But is that the version coming in the cheaper version of Surface? I remember seeing somewhere that you can only get apps through the windows store a la iPhone.

EVERY VERSION except for Windows RT (that comes pre-installed in the ARM tablets [Reads: none-x86]) is the "full" version of Windows 8 which means you have the full windows experience. No* version of windows allows you to install Modern UI Apps without going through the Marketplace but the "full" versions allow you to install none-Modern UI [Reads: traditional desktop applications] apps like you've always been able to do with previous version Windows.

 

[mm04]

I'm likely going to buy the RT and cyan cover. I've got some Chase dollars I can use and the Microsoft Store is $4 to 1 cash back, so why the hell not, I say. I don't need the power of the Pro for on the go stuff as I have a beefy desktop. Unless something really changes my mind, I'll be an early adopter.

 

[Baconsammy]

Biggest factors from that chart pushing me towards Surface over Apple is the OS and the ports.

Hmm interesting. Well it might be worth it after all if its not a ios type OS, functionality wise.

I'm hoping it's as far from iOS as it can possibly be. I want some power and customization.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

Does either one have GPS or gyroscopes or acceleromoters etc inb4 its not a phone.

I believe those sensors are minimum requirements for any tablet hardware carrying the Windows 8 (or RT) logo.

EDIT: It could have been more of a suggested specfication... can't find the link

 

[Silly.Mikey]

EVERY VERSION except for Windows RT (that comes pre-installed in the ARM tablets [Reads: none-x86]) is the "full" version of Windows 8 which means you have the full windows experience. No* version of windows allows you to install Modern UI Apps without going through the Marketplace but the "full" versions allow you to install none-Modern UI [Reads: traditional desktop applications] apps like you've always been able to do with previous version Windows.

Ya so basically, RT has the closed "infrastructure" of an iPhone while the others don't.

I don't know if that bothers me that much if the functionality is on par with a desktop OS which is the main reason i never got an ipad.

 

[Troll]

Here is an article with benchmarks that include the Tegra 3 and A5X.

 

[SeanR1221]

Ooo I like the Asus Vivo Tab RT. Price should be good too, since the W510 is 500.00. Also seeing the Xbox controller plugged in gave me a chub. I wonder how many games for windows RT will actually use a controller though.

 

[Windu]

Updated the OP with more global info.

I wish RT tablets had Flash. I wish everything could have Flash. Fucking Adobe sucks.

RT has limited flash (whitelist)

 

[brotkasten]

Ooo I like the Asus Vivo Tab RT. Price should be good too

I've got some news for you, Sean, and you probably won't like 'em. Please, have a seat.

The Asus Vivo Tab RT, formerly known as the Tablet 600, is now available for pre-order for $599.99 from online retailers including Staples, Newegg, TigerDirect, and FutureShop. That's only for the 10.1-inch Tegra 3 tablet computer itself, mind you, as the keyboard docking station required to turn it into a genuine Transformer (and double the unit's battery life) will cost an additional $200. TigerDirect has a bundle with both the tablet and keyboard for $799.99, while Staples is offering what appears to be a discount on the keyboard, selling it for $169.99. Newegg says the tablet will be released on October 26th, while FutureShop in Canada is estimating November 2nd availability.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Ooo I like the Asus Vivo Tab RT. Price should be good too, since the W510 is 500.00. Also seeing the Xbox controller plugged in gave me a chub. I wonder how many games for windows RT will actually use a controller though.

You would think that about the price, but you would be wrong. Asus is asking $600 starting price. :-O

I'm not getting too freaked about the prices yet though, we're entering the holiday season and sales are going to come along sooner or later.

So far Acer is the price winner and seems to have strategically undercut everyone.


From the Microsoft Reddit AMA:

Question: Does the Surface support Kinect and/or 360 usb controller inputs?


Answer: This is Ricardo. We used the 360 usb controllers to play with Surface all the time and they work great. We have not tried Kinect yet.

 

[SeanR1221]

I've got some news for you, Sean, and you probably won't like 'em. Please, have a seat.

You would think that about the price, but you would be wrong. Asus is asking $600 starting price. :-O

I'm not getting too freaked about the prices yet though, we're entering the holiday season and sales are going to come along sooner or later.


From the Microsoft Reddit AMA:

Oh wait the W510 is Acer, not Asus. *facepalm*

God damnit, 600 for the Asus?? I just want my "portable Xbox" tablet for a good price :/

 

[Cheebo]

Oh wait the W510 is Acer, not Asus. *facepalm*

God damnit, 600 for the Asus?? I just want my "portable Xbox" tablet for a good price :/

Most of the games on the RT are going to be the typical tablet games, not Xbox stuff.

 

[SeanR1221]

Most of the games on the RT are going to be the typical tablet games, not Xbox stuff.

It's tied to the Xbox which is what I want. I'm someone who actually loves gaming on my iPad. Earning achievements in Jetpack Joyride, Cut the Rope and Angry Birds in Space? I want in.

 

[Windu]

don't buy an atom pc if you want to play a lot of games. (unless you just want the basic tablet games)

 

[D4Danger]

don't buy an atom pc if you want to play a lot of games. (unless you just want the basic tablet games)

I think it's fair to say nobody is going to buy a tablet and expect to play high-end games.

 

[brotkasten]

don't buy an atom pc if you want to play a lot of games. (unless you just want the basic tablet games)

So ... don't buy a tablet, if you want to play a lot of games?

 

[Windu]

So ... don't buy a tablet, if you want to play a lot of games?

lol yeah basically

I think it's fair to say nobody is going to buy a tablet and expect to play high-end games.

your expectations are too high of people.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I think it's fair to say nobody is going to buy a tablet and expect to play high-end games.

Ya exactly. All i want is a tablet that can have the full functionality of my desktop, not an iPhone. I already have one of those. Dont need a bigger one.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

It's tied to the Xbox which is what I want. I'm someone who actually loves gaming on my iPad. Earning achievements in Jetpack Joyride, Cut the Rope and Angry Birds in Space? I want in.

Games aren't required to use XBL though.

I believe if they do that's a special section of the store and you have to work directly with MS to get there.

 

[SeanR1221]

Games aren't required to use XBL though.

I believe if they do that's a special section of the store and you have to work directly with MS to get there.

Yup, I know that too, but the big ones people care about will be tied to Xbox.

 

[Souless_PJ]

Is there a way to see what's on the RT marketplace without a device so you can find out what apps are on it?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Is there a way to see what's on the RT marketplace without a device so you can find out what apps are on it?

people who buy the RT better love playing Microsoft Office because the market place has no apps.

...



...lol joking. Sort of. Don't think they have an online store or itunes type thing yet. Maybe someone else knows.