Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
- Start date
- Status
It says they're using an i7 for the devices -- does that make a difference?
Probably the build quality. I mean:
They styled the microSD slot...
God damn this thing is very nicely designed. I like the look of it much more than the iPad.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Jzero
Member
That people are saying it's expensive yet it's the same price of the iPad + Keyboard.
Has anyone described how robust the RT versions of the Microsoft Office programs are? I'm interested in picking up a Surface for internet browsing and doing some light work, and if Word, PowerPoint, and Excel are beefy enough, I wouldn't have any reason to pay more for a Surface Pro later on.
Edit: Assuming that Dropbox will be present and functional.
Edit: Assuming that Dropbox will be present and functional.
mini-HDMI/HDMI to VGA cables are plentiful.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I think people are saying this tablet is expensive because only the iPad has managed to be successful at that price range. Android tablets in the $500 range have all bombed. I think this RT model is going to be a slow roller since app support will be very weak, and that's the reason people buy these type of devices.
Conversion of HDMI to analog VGA requires a DAC, AFAIK. It's possible to convert directly to digital VGA but I'm not sure if many devices support it.
And the Microsoft cable clearly has a DAC.
Office for RT is the real deal.
Word 2013:
Word 2013 RT:
And you won't be able to use the Desktop Dropbox Application for Windows RT. They would need to create a new application developed for the new UI. You can of course use the website and SkyDrive which I believe office 2013 is integrated with. One of the big things about Office 2013 is supposedly having access to your files anywhere.
Technically, it should be able to do that, since the pro has a HD4000. I'm glad they decided to go with mini displayport, which would allow up to 2560x1600 instead of maxing out at 1920x1200 if they had gone with HDMI.
Thanks! If there isn't a new Dropbox application in the works, I'll consider giving SkyDrive a shot.
Baconsammy
Banned
Completely different market.
This is one of those GIFs where I'm just completely confused by the point of the comparison.
Is it that the $599 Surface includes a keyboard whereas the iPad doesn't? Is it that the Surface is sold out while the iPad isn't? Is it that storage on the Surface is inherently cheaper than on the iPad? Or all of the above?
Jzero
Member
Like i already said it's that it's the same price as the iPad so it's not that expensive. The people that say it's too expensive are probably comparing them to Android tablets (which are not that good imo)
The cool thing about Metro is that it treats apps like SkyDrive and Dropbox as a location in the file picker, so you can save/open files directly from other programs.
King Of Fuh
Member
Can't speak for others, but I always considered the ipad overpriced, and Apple products have never really been known for their "value" beyond some sort of intangible quality that fans would talk about like the "experience".
So when another company charges the same amount of money as Apple for a similar - though I would definitely say from early impressions, better - product, it is still too expensive in my books.
I understand the build quality of the surface is extraordinary, and the keyboard cover is awesome, but at this point the general consumer currently sees ipad as the premium tablet with the premium price that all other tablets aspire to be, and it will be hard to convince people to spend the same amount of money on a rival product with no current market share and no enticing fruit badge on the back.
But, I really really really hope I'm wrong on this one and the Surface is a stunning success.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah, the long rumored idea of long 3 year dev cycles and even service packs is probably going to be gone with Windows RT (and Windows 8).
Hell, there has already been a significant update to Windows 8 since it RTM'd (one that wouldn't have hit until a service pack in previous versions of Windows).
There will also be a Metro version of Lync.
but it is, even disregarding the fact that the app store is far worse, which seems to be the most common argument.
the ipad3's display is far and away that device's most expensive component ($87 according to this isuppli bom I'm looking at). the display in the surface rt is going to cost nowhere near as much - far lower resolution, almost certainly not IPS and instead a cheaper MVA panel, likely worse color gamut, etc. heck, it may not even cost as much as the ipad2's ($57)
what's making it so expensive, then? the build quality / fit and finish seem very nice, for sure, but an ipad excels there as well. does vapormg cost a ton? does the touch cover really need to cost >$100?
That's just an outdated way of thinking. It used to be Apple products are far more expensive than the competitor prices. Nowadays their products are very price competitive and the main reason why any competitor product is significantly cheaper is often because they fail to sell that well. Also, products like Nexus 7 and Kindle tablets which are sold at almost near production cost are exceptions to the norm rather than the rule.
When Apple announced iPad's pricing at the very beginning, many people thought it was fairly priced, which was kind of atypical of Apple. Their large volumes and supply chain is now one of their primary strengths over their competitors which are finding hard to compete against Apple just solely on price.
Until someone makes cheap knockoffs of the keyboard which similar functionality, is there any existing product that we can compare the keyboard against?
Jzero
Member
That's true we can't compare it to anything yet but i still think it's too expensive.
What makes you say that this is much better than android tablets around? have you used one of these RT?
Jzero
Member
It pretty much the same thing as windows 8 without the advanced desktop.
Uh, source? Why wouldn't the Surface RT use an IPS display?
if it's an IPS display, they would've said so by now, not this "cleartype" bs. one of the reddit ama answerers (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...anay_gm_of_microsoft_surface_amaa_ask/c6nfl83) also had a chance to say it was IPS, but instead says "high-contrast wide-angle" which means MVA to me. I suppose it could be an ever cheaper TN panel, though given that specific description, I doubt it
Kibbles
Member
360p the future is here. This looks awesome though, I'm holding out for the Pro, when are they going to show more of that? :S
When you talk about Apple and value, I think it's probably always worth it to mention resale value. I bought a secondhand iPhone 4 about a year ago for $275 on eBay. Today I could probably sell it for $250 on eBay, maybe more on Craigslist. What Android phone has depreciated less than 10% in a year's time? I'd be surprised if you could sell a Galaxy S2 for more than $250, and it's a year newer than the iPhone 4.
I'd wait for an actual hands-on rather than analyse marketing speak. Nokia promotes the Lumia 920 display as 'PureMotion HD+'. Does that mean that it doesn't have IPS either?
Is it not possible that they wanted just to differentiate from standard ips panels?
fair enough, though I'm pretty confident. I haven't followed the lumia at all, so I have no idea how they market their display, but a casual google search reveals it's an "enhanced" IPS technology, so they couldn't have hidden it too much (unlike the surface)
I'm of the opinion they focused more on the build quality (ie. kickstand, vapormg) and the touch cover peripheral and were more or less forced to skimp on the displayTotakeke said:
but hey, I'll be happy to be wrong and for this to have some incredible screen
It seems that a lot of work went on the display, and its not just a cheap screen
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-explains-why-they-chose-1366768-resolution-for-the-surface-rt
This I found particularly interesting
Jzero
Member
This could be true. Something similar would be like with cameras, Megapixels matter but the sensor size is more important than the megapixels. A camera may have less megapixels than another but the one with the bigger sensor will probably take better pictures. This has nothing to do with the screens but yea
You know what, I'm not entirely sure with the new Ivy Bridge processors. I wouldn't imagine it's a huge difference with gaming being so GPU heavy, but I want to check.
e: Great OT by the way Windu.
Dreams-Visions
Member
yeah, I wasn't saying this will be some bottom of the barrel part, just cheaper than what's in the ipads. and like I said earlier, cleartype font smoothing is going to go a long, long way. of their "three pronged" approach to screen quality, that'll undoubtedly make the largest impact (it's also free, being software). optical bonding is in a lot of phones/tablets now, though indeed, it wasn't used in the ipad3. and maybe they're right about the higher contrast (much higher versus an IPS display, if it's really an MVA panel)
I believe the 3770k and the 3570k are both using the same quality graphics. But I don't know if it's the same for mobile chips.
brain_stew
Member
32GB isn't a requirement for the iPad like it is with Surface due to the larger OS footprint. Surface also has a far weaker SOC, a low resolution screen and a none-existent app library which are arguably the three most important specifications for a tablet outside of the OS itself. The entry point for the true Surface experience is $100-$200 more than the iPad any way you slice it. How can you hope to turn attentions away from the market leader when you come in at a higher price point for a lower spec tablet? The ipad with similar specs in terms of the screen and SOC is actually $200 less.
Microsoft need to come in with a splash in order to build up an app library, charging more for midrange hardware isn't going to accomplish that. Tegra 3 and ~720p screens are the preserve of ~$200 tablets these days, not $600 tablets. If they want to charge premium prices, then they should start using premium components. If they want to use midrange hardware then they should price this thing to move. At the current price point and hardware level, they're accomplishing neither.
The bigger issue is getting Modern UI popularised. Consumers know what to expect buying into an iPad; I did it myself about two-three weeks ago. Buyers wil be waiting for Windows 8 apps.
That said, I think the price sans Touch Cover is good. Though I don't understand why it is charging $120 (correct me if I'm wrong) for the Touch Cover.
That said, I think the price sans Touch Cover is good. Though I don't understand why it is charging $120 (correct me if I'm wrong) for the Touch Cover.
- Status