Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
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I disagree. Because I usually only own one product in a certain category doesn't mean all others are shit.
And because I'd rather have a Surface Pro (whether I'll be able to afford it is another question) doesn't mean that all criticism levelled at the RT has merit.
Sometimes you have discussions for fun. Sometimes you have discussions where you haven't actually made your own decisions (as it's very often the case with gaming stuff). Sometimes you like stuff even if you won't actually buy it. If you don't go into flaming fanboy mode, it doesn't mean you won't be able to have a productive discussion because of it
Wiktor
Member
Generally anything 10 inches sucks for typing. 12 inches is minumum to get proper readibility and big enough keys for comfortable and fast typing.
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, you know?
Edit: What you're proposing is basically "Everyone who won't buy a product is allowed to criticize it. No one who won't buy it is allowed to say something positive".
So if someone posts a pre-order, will you stop posting for a month?
If you post screenshot of your order, I will stop posting in this thread.
Nah, that's not unreasonable enough. How about you stop posting in every thread I post in?
The Faceless Master
Member
good point. hey, so does Surface RT skateboard have the screen up or screen down? i ask because then you can skate while using a maps app if the screen is up... wait, Surface RT has GPS hardware, right?
edit: soooooooooooooo according to the spec sheets on the microsoft website, Surface doesn't have GPS hardware!?
are they fucking serious?!
Souless_PJ
Banned
Yep
Up to 8 hours battery
Tegra 3
Low resolution screen
No GPS
Roughly 20gb free out of 32gb after installed apps and OS
2200 apps vs 250,000
Premium pricing
Up to 8 hours battery
Tegra 3
Low resolution screen
No GPS
Roughly 20gb free out of 32gb after installed apps and OS
2200 apps vs 250,000
Premium pricing
Wifi only iPad doesn't have GPS either. I'd think plenty of other wifi only tablets are the same.
Well, it would probably be limited in it's value by the lack of 3G/4G/LTE/whatever.
Still rather stupid.
Good thing for USB ports, time to buy the smallest 3g USB modem out there. Someone need to make the software though, probably. This thing gonna need an extension for all the USB devices it needs.
Yeah, that is pretty bad. VaporMg was cited as the reason there is no NFC, I wonder if the casing prevents GPS from working too?
Seems like Microsoft put the focus on design and materials over specs/functionality. I'll go play with it in store, it better damn well feel and look amazing.
Edot: Didn't realize WiFi tablets typically lack GPS.
Seems like Microsoft put the focus on design and materials over specs/functionality. I'll go play with it in store, it better damn well feel and look amazing.
Edot: Didn't realize WiFi tablets typically lack GPS.
Well, but what about WiFi? I might be clueless here, but how would NFC not work when WiFi does?
plagiarize
Banned
i know from RT requirements that if it has 3G/4G/LTE whatever that the devices MUST have GPS. it's not too surprising to see a wifi only tablet not have it. to be honest, it never even occured to me that it would have GPS.
No idea. That came from the AMA
The Wifi ipad doesnt have GPS either and unless we have reports of Surface being slow I dont see why Tegra 3 is a problem.
Isn't the Tegra 3 processor generally considered a good processor for tablets?
plagiarize
Banned
isn't 720p still considered high definition, even if it doesn't have retina display esque pixel density? eh. price is a bit on the high side, but it wasn't enough to make me hesitate.
but then my work is getting me a Pro next year, and the RT is just to supplement my PC and the wife's laptop for uses where it's going to be more convenient like on the couch or in the kitchen or on trips or what have you.
Thats why chances are I'm getting one of the 26th. Unless the real word tests are under the 8hr mark with the battery.
brotkasten
Member
Capacitive pens are supported on pretty much every capacitive touchscreen. Duh.
Wacom pen for Surface RT, wooo!
Gareth Bale
Member
So I'll be getting one. I feel very guilty about it though considering how overpriced it is and that I'm not the one paying. Shame there's no deals for students... where are those MS Store 20% off codes when you need them
Hari Seldon
Member
I am really thinking about snagging one just for development of these RT apps. C# is a fuck ton nicer than shitty ass objective C.
zephervack
Member
Any in-depth reviews yet? I know its too soon but I need to read more about this, Im trying to justify that ridiculous price.
You dont mean developing on the RT tablet itself though? Unless they are making a Visual Studio RT
You dont mean developing on the RT tablet itself though? Unless they are making a Visual Studio RT
Nope and it's so damn annoying.
brotkasten
Member
NDA won't be up until next week, afaik.
He probably means deploying and testing the ARM build of his app.
Hari Seldon
Member
No, to test on.
The Faceless Master
Member
the only major ones that don't are the Kindle and Nook. the vast majority of Android tablets have GPS hardware built in.
dedicated map applications, usb hotspots and tethering exist.
if by 'Wifi tablets" you mean iPads, then yes. if you mean Wifi tablets, then no. even cheap chinese mediatek chipset tablets have been coming with GPS hardware for years.
Hari Seldon
Member
Finally read that gizmodo article on its construction. God damn this is some serious industrial design! Balmer should have road out on stage with it as a skateboard and then torn off the wheels and used it to type up a word doc haha.
It's kinda sad that Apple's iPad seems like better value here. Same Tegra 3 as in the $200 Nexus 7(?), resolution is so bad that it's barely better than the Nexus 7/iPad 2/iPad Mini, and storage space that's closer to 16GB than the 32GB that you paid for.
I wonder if people will start developing for the ARM version of Windows? Can you install programs for the desktop? Would be interesting if we start seeing fragmentation happen on the desktop side of Windows between ARM and x86 now... lol
I wonder if people will start developing for the ARM version of Windows? Can you install programs for the desktop? Would be interesting if we start seeing fragmentation happen on the desktop side of Windows between ARM and x86 now... lol
SeaOfMadness
Member
Anton Sugar
Member
That's kinda silly to say. It's hard to compare them outright, since you have multiple models of each, but let's go by price point for this one:
$599 will get you:
32gb Surface tablet w/keyboard and cover
32gb new iPad
You mention the space being a concern, but again, ~20gb of space after Office 2013/default apps installed isn't that bad. Not to mention, you can use a Micro SD card with the Surface.
If resolution is that big of a deal for you, then it might be a dealbreaker, but I don't consider the Surface's resolution to be "so bad". The processor is weaker, but Windows 8 has a smaller processor/resource footprint than Windows 7, so I don't think it will be a huge deal.
The iPad has it beat, no doubt, in resolution and apps available (currently). Anything else is arguable.
Apple is pushing ridiculous volume through an amazingly efficient supply chain. They have been offering the best value for a while, especially in the tablet space.
You can't install desktop apps on a Windows RT device.
You can't install desktop apps on a Windows RT device.
brotkasten
Member
Sorry.
No, you can not install desktop applications on a Windows RT device. As stated a billion times in this thread and obviously in the OP.
The ARM version of a metro app is basically one click away for developers.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
been thinking about the surface a wee bit, if the build quality is really up to scratch as the ads make it look, this really does destroy the ipad in pretty much everyway EXCEPT for apps. Which is admittedly a really large deal. Not one that concerns me as I'm getting the pro and can wait some years for the appstore to catch up.
Apple must be quite worried about this though, because app development may be low at the start, but being that they have the desktop to fall back on, MS can probably dump a bunch of their considerable programming resources into bolstering the app store themselves. Interested to see the first official apps coming out of the app store from MS themselves.
I use win 8 daily at home, Have NEVER yet downloaded an app from the store (but I'm using on a desktop which really feels kind of pointless).
the designers just did an AMA on reddit, here is what they said about the resolution question.
from
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11kyja/iam_panos_panay_gm_of_microsoft_surface_amaa_ask/
I don't know how true the stuff is
Apple must be quite worried about this though, because app development may be low at the start, but being that they have the desktop to fall back on, MS can probably dump a bunch of their considerable programming resources into bolstering the app store themselves. Interested to see the first official apps coming out of the app store from MS themselves.
I use win 8 daily at home, Have NEVER yet downloaded an app from the store (but I'm using on a desktop which really feels kind of pointless).
the designers just did an AMA on reddit, here is what they said about the resolution question.
from
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11kyja/iam_panos_panay_gm_of_microsoft_surface_amaa_ask/
I don't know how true the stuff is
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I really think the Surface is being underestimated.
Did read that and I'm also not sure how accurate it is, but resolution isn't a dealbreaker for me. For a laptop that I want to be able to use for basic consumption and productivity, I don't need 1080p.
LukasTaves
Member
Dunno if surface does something extra to allow something more with clear type, but they do have a point: Clear Type is really good, and imo, definitely noticeable the lack of of when logging into linux...
My screen has a lower dpi than an ipad 2 (1600*900 at a 17.3" -> 106dpi against ipad2's 132, but still the text is much, much sharper at the same distance.
Don't get me wrong, I've stated multiple times that I am very interested in picking up the Surface Pro. It's the RT that looks like pretty poor value compared to the iPad. Honestly, I don't see anything about it that would sway an average consumer from the iPad to the Surface RT when they cost the same and when the iPad is better than the Surface RT in almost every way. We're just starting to get high DPI/PPI screens on everything nowadays and for some reason Microsoft is going backwards.
HTC has a 5" PHONE with 1080p. The iPad 3 with its insane resolution has been out for more than half a year. The 4.65" 720p Galaxy Nexus is a year old already.
But whatever, that's my POV and I honestly would not recommend the Surface RT to anyone I know.
FYI: I own an S3, Nexus 7, iPad 3, and am using Windows 8 via Dreamspark on my PC before anyone calls me an Apple fanboy.
HTC has a 5" PHONE with 1080p. The iPad 3 with its insane resolution has been out for more than half a year. The 4.65" 720p Galaxy Nexus is a year old already.
But whatever, that's my POV and I honestly would not recommend the Surface RT to anyone I know.
FYI: I own an S3, Nexus 7, iPad 3, and am using Windows 8 via Dreamspark on my PC before anyone calls me an Apple fanboy.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Sure the res is higher on iPad, but I wonder what the actual difference is. That MS article about how their tech makes great IQ on lower resolutions intrigued me.
Really? I would say resolution and some apps (I still say gaming on day 1 will be better than ipad with the announced xbox lineup) are the only things the ipad has over surface.... in every other way surface rt is better even for the general consumer imo.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
Lol. It's as if the op doesn't exist.
Sorry.
No, you can not install desktop applications on a Windows RT device. As stated a billion times in this thread and obviously in the OP.
The ARM version of a metro app is basically one click away for developers.
zephervack
Member
I think the general consumer has always wanted the iPad, the ones that wanted it and could afford it already have one and have bought many apps that pretty much holds them hostage to that platform, the only way Microsoft could compete was with a better price and they have failed, doesnt bode well for them to be honest
.Anton Sugar
Member
You say this, but so far you've only mentioned screen resolution and apps. You don't consider any of these to be advantages:
-Bundled keyboard/cover for same price
-Inclusion of Office 2013
-Micro SD storage
-2GB RAM
Resolution, for your average user, is not going to be a dealbreaker. I consider the added productivity options via Office 2013 and the keyboard to be HUGE, personally.
This is a very flawed way to evaluate or compare products, IMO. Hardware is only a part of the experience.
I'm looking at it from the tech spec level and everything favors the iPad (ironic, considering it's Apple).
Edit: Maybe except RAM. Wasn't listed on the Apple site. I assume it's 1GB.
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