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Tagg Romney: Example of White Privilege?

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Veezy said:
Barack Obama was accused of being a non American citizen. When his birth certificate was presented to the public, the second time, it was analyzed up and down for "evidence" that it was a fake.

The media at large either discussed the topic or simply didn't discuss it, but there wasn't a wide spread "are you fucking kidding me how would that even happen" series of moments on television.

You don't think that has a tad bit to do with him being Black? Would those accusations fly with a White president?
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Yes, if it was Clinton and there was a question of his birth. I still think it's a partisan issue. Just as many white people called it a non-issue as called it an issue. More, I'd wager. Obama was easy to go after because there was the question of where he was born. Not saying that Republicans didn't lose their shit completely when a black man took the presidency, they did. Not because of white privilege. Because they're racists and bigots. They'd lose their shit over a gay man/woman being president.
 
not psycho said:
White privilege is about white being considered "neutral" or "default." It isn't about White people doing anything bad.

The privilege is that Tagg can say something like this as a joke without worrying about scaring anyone: there are no angry White man stereotypes for him to avoid. It won't prompt a discussion of violence in "White culture." He's just Tagg, some guy who made a joke. An individual speaking for himself.

If Obama had a 42 year old son you can bet he would not feel comfortable saying he wanted to punch Romney on national tv. He would know the stereotypes it would bring up, the dialogue it would start, etc.

By the way "minority disadvantage" does not mean the same thing as "White privilege." White privilege is White being default, so Tagg is "some guy", and if he was Black he would be "some Black guy." It has to be called White Privilege, or White Defaulting, or White as Neutral, or whatever, because that is what it means.
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But if he didn't do anything bad, why would it merit criticism? How does white privilege come into play if nothing he said was bad? Now if he called the president the N word and there was no outrage because of white privilege, then you have a point.

As for your point about Obama having a son and him getting criticized for saying something similar, that would only be from those crazy people on the far right. Reasonable, intelligent people would not listen to that type of crap. In fact, that type of reporting is as bad as the article in the OP, trying to make mountains out of ant hills.
 
Zhengi said:
But if he didn't do anything bad, why would it merit criticism? How does white privilege come into play if nothing he said was bad? Now if he called the president the N word and there was no outrage because of white privilege, then you have a point.

As for your point about Obama having a son and him getting criticized for saying something similar, that would only be from those crazy people on the far right. Reasonable, intelligent people would not listen to that type of crap. In fact, that type of reporting is as bad as the article in the OP, trying to make mountains out of ant hills.
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It doesn't merit criticism, except maybe as a dumb thing for a 42 year old to say (when I first heard about it I assumed he was a teenager). I should have said, I don't agree with the article.

The part I agree with is that it is an example of White privilege. A White guy can say such a thing so easily and comfortably to the world because he isn't worried about race. White people can ignore race since they are considered the default. Everyone in the "other" category is forced to notice it, and has to be careful lest they are associated with a multitude of stereotypes or themselves reflect poorly on their race.
 
Mumei said:
I think it's both true that Tagg benefited from white privilege - would would white privilege matter if no one were either benefiting or being treated unfairly because of it? - and that this is part of a larger social problem; that while white people and black people are treated in disparate ways, the ideology of colorblindness, well, blinds people to this fact and results in people going into contortions to justify an "anything but race" perspective as the explanation for racial phenomena.

So I don't know that the person writing the article got it completely wrong; I feel like it is a misreading to paint the article as a simplistic "Tagg Romney is a racist asshole" smear piece. It was negative towards him, but I think it made the points you said it needed to make.
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Yeah, I don't entirely disagree with you. I didn't mean to imply that he got it completely wrong, rather that he spent so much time being partisan and sensationalist that he presented the argument in a way that created a terrible framework for meaningful discussion. The actual relevant points are buried inside a narrative of what a terrible person Tagg Romney is and how dare he take advantage of his white privilege. Of course that's going to produce a bunch of defensive knee-jerk responses that miss the forest for the trees.

I mean, go back and read the article; out of 8 paragraphs, only 3 mention the media response to the issue. That ratio should be the other way around. The last sentence kind of typifies the whole thing:

This little episode and the lack of reaction to it confirms Tagg’s – and much of White America’s – unspoken day-to-day assumption that there should be two standards of acceptable decorum
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That is his summary statement, and in it "White America" is secondary to Tagg.


Baconsammy said:
Barry Bonds vs Lance Armstrong

Barry was never given the benefit of the doubt. Lance given all the benefit of the doubt. Could be racial, or it could be that Barry was a notorious douchebag.
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Barry's response to accusations was basically "FUCK YOU, YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME." Didn't really inspire confidence in his honesty.
 
Eschaton said:
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2nSPo.jpg
 
Mumei said:
Okay, those are things that I had thought about, but I thought that they were unimportant, or at least much less important than his race was. After all, what is being argued here is that if a similarly situated (in terms of national prominence and social class) black man's son had made a similar comment in the same context towards a prominent white man, the reaction would be different, and that white privilege can be seen in this disparity.

I don't really understand why there is so much resistance to the idea that race is socially salient and that the actions of white people and black people are received in disparate ways, though.
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I think the article would then have benefitted from going further in depth on that in a more concrete manner than a simple thought exercise. Unless of course I'm missing the intent of the article. The article could very well be right and I believe it is but the more I read it the less substance I see to it. The author seems to make claim after claim after claim that he never follows through on, never demonstrates which I think the author ought to be able to do quite easily.

Furthermore I think it's disingenuous to relate something being potentially a federal crime with the news coverage it receives or even someone's willingness to do it. Mail tampering is a federal crime, does that suggest that mail tampering deserves news coverage? There are other reasons why the son of the GOP candidate threatening violence against the president should be news, but the fact that it is potentially a federal offense is not among them.

Beyond that a lot of word choices seems to frame the entire article as an appeal to emotion. You can see it in dismissive phrases like
"nothing more than whose crotch he popped out of". Was labelling Tagg "Mr. White Privilege" in the furtherance of an argument? he was already positioned as such with the Bush comparison, so what point did the label serve?

So to summarize, I think the author is correct about a lot of what he says about white privilege but only because I believed that before I read the article. I don't think the article was in the least bit convincing.
 
As somebody that would be described as "black", I can't say I've felt the sting of "white privilege". If anything, I think being considered black has helped me in a couple of ways that I still think are right. I can tell there have been a few instances where my race has made what people expected of me lower than it should be. I'm often complimented for being well spoken, which I don't think would happen as often if I were white. It's almost as if some people, and I'm talking about a relatively small number of people here, see that I am not some ghetto thug-life stereotypical black male and are very relieved. This puts me on a great first impression. I've determined it has happened in a few cases based on those people's behavior when meeting other people similar to me, but they were white.

I'm not saying that is a good thing, because it isn't. I find it very insulting to be on a lower expectation curve. But I'd be lying if I said it didn't help. This is all besides the point though, and I'm sure this doesn't come anywhere close to whatever "white privilege" actually is.
 
IHaveCandy said:
As somebody that would be described as "black", I can't say I've felt the sting of "white privilege". If anything, I think being considered black has helped me in a couple of ways that I still think are right. I can tell there have been a few instances where my race has made what people expected of me lower than it should be. I'm often complimented for being well spoken, which I don't think would happen as often if I were white. It's almost as if some people, and I'm talking about a relatively small number of people here, see that I am not some ghetto thug-life stereotypical black male and are very relieved. This puts me on a great first impression. I've determined it has happened in a few cases based on those people's behavior when meeting other people similar to me, but they were white.

I'm not saying that is a good thing, because it isn't. I find it very insulting to be on a lower expectation curve. But I'd be lying if I said it didn't help. This is all besides the point though, and I'm sure this doesn't come anywhere close to whatever "white privilege" actually is.
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lol that is NOT helping you per se..

They still see you as the higher point of a lesser than group..
 
Solid commentary by the Salon article overall, although it is a bit undermined by the fact that some portion of the mainstream media did spend a cycle on this - glancing at most of MSNBC's evening shows tonight, they spent quite a bit of time on it and O'Donnell even inappropriately challenged Tagg to take a swing at him instead.

I think the bigger issue with Tagg's comment is that he had the perfect opportunity to be the better man here but heeded the dog whistle call instead to give the base the red meat they prefer. Obama didn't call his father a liar and Tagg could have pointed that out to the interview host and could have easily taken the higher road from there, that everyone gets a little passionate in the heat of debate, etc., etc. Show some respect, get some in return.

But I suppose that's where the White Privilege takes over in that no respect exists in the first place.
 
Blackace said:
White privilege not equal to racist
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Right, I re-read the article. I get it. Seems like a pretty vague concept though. Are you saying there would actually be repercussions in media if one of Obama's relatives said the same thing about Romney? (If so, America is even more fucked up than I thought) Or just that they never would dare to?
 
What is this BS Obama would shank Mitt if he had an opportunity to get away with it.

And i don't think he'd be good at shanking because hes black, but because he's got a slender figure and wouldn't use a blunt object.

Why generate more force when you can hit him between the ribs and break it off?

Dumb comment but this isn't any white privilege BS
 
Canuck76 said:
What is this BS Obama would shank Mitt if he had an opportunity to get away with it.

And i don't think he'd be good at shanking because hes black, but because he's got a slender figure and wouldn't use a blunt object.

Why generate more force when you can hit him between the ribs and break it off?

Dumb comment but this isn't any white privilege BS
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What Obama would do is not relevent here in the least. This theory can only be applied to the actions of a white man and how they are perceived by others.
 
Thus, it all comes back to White Privilege. This little episode and the lack of reaction to it confirms Tagg’s – and much of White America’s – unspoken day-to-day assumption that there should be two standards of acceptable decorum: one for privileged white people, another for everyone else.


I'm so glad that we have a person that understands white america.

Now do you mind if i include all black people in a "black america" and make assumptions about how "you people" think?

Oh that would be over the line wouldn't it? It's so disappointing how a few people have a double standard, and are ruining it for everyone else.
 
Canuck76 said:
Oh that would be over the line wouldn't it? It's so disappointing how a few people have a double standard, and are ruining it for everyone else.
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the whole point is that it is not on purpose, it is years of evolved ingrained societal expectations of acceptable behavior and will change over time. Especialy as the white man in America becomes a minority one day.
 
So wait, I can do and say things because I'm white and get away with it? Do I need to apply somewhere and get a card for this white privilege to take effect?

Say I go over the speed limit by 6 miles or so, nothing crazy and get pulled over. Can I pull out my white privilege card and avoid a ticket?

Do I have to have money? If that's the case I see why I've never heard of this before. Damn rich people and their benefits.
 
Wow, this thread's got a few grade-A dunce caps in here.

"Hey man, he's not a racist. He's just mad he called his father a liar!"

Really? Really??

As for staying on topic, it's true that this "threat" would really have gotten a lot more attention if it had been a prominent black man who had said this about Romney (kinda reminds me of the whole "I wanna cut his nuts off" thing Jesse Jackson said, even though it's obviously not the same thing XD), but at the same time, it's taking the situation for a pretty long ride to make a point.

Doesn't make the point any less valid, though.

Dmented said:
So wait, I can do and say things because I'm white and get away with it? Do I need to apply somewhere and get a card for this white privilege to take effect?

Say I go over the speed limit by 6 miles or so, nothing crazy and get pulled over. Can I pull out my white privilege card and avoid a ticket?

Do I have to have money? If that's the case I see why I've never heard of this before. Damn rich people and their benefits.
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icet-o.gif
 
Canuck76 said:
Thus, it all comes back to White Privilege. This little episode and the lack of reaction to it confirms Tagg’s – and much of White America’s – unspoken day-to-day assumption that there should be two standards of acceptable decorum: one for privileged white people, another for everyone else.


I'm so glad that we have a person that understands white america.

Now do you mind if i include all black people in a "black america" and make assumptions about how "you people" think?

Oh that would be over the line wouldn't it? It's so disappointing how a few people have a double standard, and are ruining it for everyone else.
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the guy who wrote this is white. you got a problem with overzealous white liberals, dont drag black people into it.
 
not psycho said:
It doesn't merit criticism, except maybe as a dumb thing for a 42 year old to say (when I first heard about it I assumed he was a teenager). I should have said, I don't agree with the article.

The part I agree with is that it is an example of White privilege. A White guy can say such a thing so easily and comfortably to the world because he isn't worried about race. White people can ignore race since they are considered the default. Everyone in the "other" category is forced to notice it, and has to be careful lest they are associated with a multitude of stereotypes or themselves reflect poorly on their race.
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I kind of wonder about other races saying this. Would it be perceived by anyone as some sort of privilege if it was mentioned by them? Like would Asian people be accused of Yellow Privilege if they said something like this. Or would a Hispanic person be accused of Brown Privilege? I'm not so sure because the actual comments itself don't really merit criticism.
 
Zhengi said:
I kind of wonder about other races saying this. Would it be perceived by anyone as some sort of privilege if it was mentioned by them? Like would Asian people be accused of Yellow Privilege if they said something like this. Or would a Hispanic person be accused of Brown Privilege? I'm not so sure because the actual comments itself don't really merit criticism.
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Well depends where you are in the world

Like Japan is 93% Japanese and there is definitely an advantage to being Japanese to not being in Japan
 
speculawyer said:
Not at all. He does have a tendency to go nonlinear at times in funny ways. This was one of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_O'Donnell
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did not know this

U.S. Congress

From 1989 to 1995, he was a key legislative aide to Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.[4] From 1989 to 1991, he served as senior advisor to Moynihan. From 1992 to 1993, he was staff director of the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, then chaired by Senator Moynihan. And then from 1993 to 1995, he was staff director of the United States Senate Committee on Finance, once again under Senator Moynihan’s chairmanship. He thus led the staff of the Senate's tax-writing committee during the consideration of President Bill Clinton's first budget, which Congress enacted in the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.

Television

From 1999 to 2006, O’Donnell was associated with the television drama The West Wing. Over that time, he wrote 16 episodes. From 1999 to 2000 he was executive story editor for 12 episodes, in 2000 he was co-producer of 5 episodes, from 2000 to 2001 he was producer of 17 episodes, from 2003 to 2005 he was consulting producer for 44 episodes, and from 2005 to 2006 he was executive producer for 22 episodes.[9] O’Donnell won the 2001 Emmy award for Outstanding Drama Series for The West Wing, and was nominated for the 2006 Emmy for the same category.[10]
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Dmented said:
So wait, I can do and say things because I'm white and get away with it? Do I need to apply somewhere and get a card for this white privilege to take effect?

Say I go over the speed limit by 6 miles or so, nothing crazy and get pulled over. Can I pull out my white privilege card and avoid a ticket?

Do I have to have money? If that's the case I see why I've never heard of this before. Damn rich people and their benefits.
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Arrest and conviction disparities between races is the de-facto way we know of contemporary discrimination.

I can see it might be difficult for people to connect " white privilege " with the act of saying the only thing that would stop you hitting an annoying black man is his security staff, but I'd expect everyone to acknowledge discrimination in the legal process.
 
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