Meccanical
Member
Rinoa's father is rich.
I can see Squall now:
"Oh Rinoa! How I love her!(father's money)"
Square Enix Member Survey-What qualities do you like most about Lightning?
- Thread starter MagiusNecros
- Start date
I can see Squall now:
"Oh Rinoa! How I love her!(father's money)"
Well, Rinoa was cute but you just can't turn down willing teachers in glasses man. Squall lacks common sense.
When I was looking at it in game for the first time, I couldn't figure shit out in the action scenes. Not able to replaying the movies in a CG gallery didn't help.
Meccanical
Member
If you guys keep moving the goalpost, there's no way to really debate any points. I've seen several comments in several threads talking about how SQEX is obsessed with Lightning, and Toriyama is obsessed with Lightning. When you actually look at the stuff that's come out, it's pretty clear that none of it is actually based in reality. She was barely even the lead in the first game, and only made glorified cameos in the 2nd. If anything, the games suggest the opposite of what everyone has been saying.
If you guys just want to ignore that and keep repeating it, it's your call. But it's pretty much nonsensical garbage.
If you just want to say that you dislike the XIII series and don't want it to be a trilogy, then okay, not much else to say about it. That's your opinion. People could say the same thing about Uncharted 1-3, Mass Effect 1-3, Dragon Age 1-3, Assassin's Creed 1-6, and on this gen. You could say that about virtually the entire game industry. It's kind of pointless after a while to just keep repeating that you don't want it to be a trilogy. It's a trilogy.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
How bout fighting fate?
Meccanical
Member
The answer is yes.
I dunno man. FFXIII being a trilogy is like, a trilogy within a franchise. Final Fantasy is already a franchise, one of the trademarks of which is its completely new setting with each new game. That's how they got to 13 numbered games without getting stale. That's just me though. People have had no shortage of complaints about Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I didn't even like Uncharted until the second game, I skipped on Assassin's Creed Revelations because I was ready for AC3 with a whole new setting and characters, and so on.
With FFXIII in particular, I'm just complaining about how, from the beginning, Square Enix was trying to build it as a franchise in and of itself. From the start they had pre-planned another VII Compilation. The VII Compilation made sense in the first place though because VII got popular - it proved its viability as a brand. XIII hadn't, and in the opinion of many still hasn't.
I myself can't really say much about Lighting because I haven't even seen much complaining singling her out until this thread.
idlethreats
Member
I like how flawed Lightning is. She doesn't have a good handle on or understanding of her emotions and she deals with anger in an unhealthy, unproductive way. I found her relatable in that sense, that she was pretty messed up and not very heroic for much of the game. I also liked that her defining relationship was with her sister, and not a romantic interest as tends to be the case for FF women.
It's getting pretty tiresome to see almost every FF/SQEX news thread consist largely of the same old suspects looking for ways to outdo each other with their dislike of XIII. Perhaps if people found more creative ways to bag on the franchise? Idk. I find the hyperbolic hatred for XIII to be about as silly as the mindless Lightning squeeing that's going on in the comments at the Members blog right now.
Meccanical
Member
FFXIII is disliked by people.
There are a lot of things to dislike about it.
I am sorry but it's the truth.
That said, arguing over FFXIII is getting really tired.
There are a lot of things to dislike about it.
I am sorry but it's the truth.
That said, arguing over FFXIII is getting really tired.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I think GILGAMESH needs his own game.
I'd rather see a subseries of that to be honest.
Or get on with the JP only Type series since SE is adamant about Type 0 staying in Japan.
I'd rather see a subseries of that to be honest.
Or get on with the JP only Type series since SE is adamant about Type 0 staying in Japan.
AlphaDragoon
Member
Rinoa is better than Quistis so I fully understand why Squall would go for her.
Lightning sucks compared to Rinoa and Quistis too, while we're on the subject.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
This... this is disturbing even....
Femmeworth
Banned
That's because Lightning belongs to Toriyama. She has to remain pure.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
A lot of things Toriyama write suggest the opposite of what he tries to say. It's typical Toriyama's quality writing, and yes, we are sick of it.
Go read the interviews, especially Toriyama's comments about Lightning posted above me, go read the definition of Mary Sue and what usually leads to the (unconscious) creation of Mary Sue characters, and how Lightning keeps getting over 9000 powerz by Toriyama. Check all SE's trailers and marketing for FFXIII and its sequels, and the huge bubble hype that has been revolving around LightningLightningLightningLightning. We now have a sequel that is mostly about lightning, with Lightning in the title, with surveys about what fans enjoy the most about Lightning. Check how everything is supposed to revolve around Lightning for FFXIII-2, especially as shown in the interviews, or how much screentime Lightning had in FFXIII to show off her "protagonism" even though Toriyama failed to make her barely important to the story. And yes, Toriyama does thinks Lightning in the protagonist of the original FFXIII, having stated something like "at some point we thought about Vanille being the main, but because we already had our first trailer out portraiting Lightning as the protagonist, we kept her as the main character of the story".
Sorry if I sound agressive, but the fact that the writers' attempts to make her important have failed only makes matters worse when we consider the whole context.
It's fine, you're not being overly aggressive. Anyway, I have to head out so I just belted this post out in a hurry.
I just don't know what the big deal is. It seems like a lot of forum BS from people who want to paint Toriyama as some over-important otaku. It's just weird. Any series with a main character in it will have marketing with the main character in it. You're really surprised that marketing for the game has Lightning in it, or you find this unusual?
I have checked their statements, and they said that having a game focused on Lightning is partly because she was barely even in the 2nd game. They also never really utilized the full moveset they had planned for her in the 1st game. Nothing about any of this is weird, or sets the game apart from virtually any other series out there.
I know Lightning is technically the main character of XIII, but in reality she's not. It seems more like it's Vanille and Fang's story. Vanille is even the narrator. Past that, virtually all the other characters are given equal screen time and importance in the story. In XIII-2 the main characters are Noel and Serah.
I saw the LR announcement event with the poster. It's just a damn poster lol. I don't see the big deal. I saw him hold up a rose. All of the FF guys talk in highly philosophical, elaborate metaphor. Kitase opened the event with a monologue about crystals and alternate realities. Lightning's Odin summon animation and crystal have always been designed after a rose, so it's not really anything more than that.
Lightning keeps getting stronger powers, so they're obsessed? Again, this could be talking about virtually any game ever made. It's also a bit of an overly reductionist strawman, considering that she didn't have enough power in the 2nd game.
She couldn't defeat Caius, her sister died, and the world is now on the verge of ending.
I don't know what Mary Sue has to do with it either. Lightning is fairly one dimensional, but again, how is this different from virtually any other lead characters? They're heroes who persevere over incredible odds because of strength and willpower. That sums up almost all game characters ever made. Even still, she also has a character arc where she focuses on her faults: ignoring Serah and being overly harsh. Her strength came from being able to wall off her own weakness in a time of crisis. By rebranding herself as Lightning, she took on an alternate persona and convinced herself that she was without weakness. That's the whole point of her character. Through her time with Hope, she began to realize that she didn't just shut off weakness, but also empathy. So she begins to open up and realize her mistakes. This is a theme for a decent chunk of the game. The reason the group even splits up in the first place is because she basically abandons them all because she doesn't care about anyone else but herself, and because she detests weakness and sees it as baggage. Then she even forgives Snow, and realizes she was overly harsh in her treatment of him. So, I don't see how her positive traits really overshadowed her negative ones. She just grew as a character. The fact that her name is Lightning instead of Claire is kind of a continual reminder that she's a scarred character with human faults, so I don't see the positive really overshadowing the negative.
And I don't really see how it's a wish fulfillment for the author, or how that would even be a bad thing if it was. Isn't the majority of writing (especially fantasy) wish fulfillment?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Not 1 thing SE. NOT 1
For me, Shinta, this isn't really a big deal. It's Square trying to get its fans hyped up for their next big game. If I got outraged at every stupid marketing gimmick a publisher pulled, I wouldn't have time to leave my computer.
I don't even dislike Lightning all that much. She was one of the better characters in a pretty weak ensemble, and probably the only one I could stand in the early going besides Sazh. Maybe it was just because she punched Snow in the face, but she seemed a lot more human when she was trying to project this aura of invincibility and righteousness that ultimately came off as callous and anti-social. Unfortunately, like the entire cast of that game, her personality dissolves into the aether when her "development" is over and she becomes the ur-shonen protagonist. Ah well.
My main point is that it's less about Lightning's quality in a vacuum, and more about what the marketing is trying to build her up into. Why is she written as the main character of FFXIII if, as you say, she really isn't that important to the story? Why do they put her on the box art of FFXIII-2 when she's largely absent from most of the game? Why does Motomu Toriyama think (or want us to think) that "Lightning Returns!" is a huge deal worth spending half his presentation talking about? She's not that interesting. She's a good-looking character design inhabited by a one-dimensional ghost that changes based on the whims of the current story she stars in.
It annoyed me when Halo's marketing started buying into its own hype about Master Chief's symbolic significance, and it annoys me here. I don't care that much about empty icons. I care about the game. I'd rather they tell me what they're actually making instead of trying to create empty buzzwords like "World-Driven" (so original, even the internet hasn't thought of it!) or trying to invest life-changing gravity into the very existence of their cardboard constructs.
Also, wish fulfillment may be in a lot of writing, but almost all of that writing is awful to read.
I don't even dislike Lightning all that much. She was one of the better characters in a pretty weak ensemble, and probably the only one I could stand in the early going besides Sazh. Maybe it was just because she punched Snow in the face, but she seemed a lot more human when she was trying to project this aura of invincibility and righteousness that ultimately came off as callous and anti-social. Unfortunately, like the entire cast of that game, her personality dissolves into the aether when her "development" is over and she becomes the ur-shonen protagonist. Ah well.
My main point is that it's less about Lightning's quality in a vacuum, and more about what the marketing is trying to build her up into. Why is she written as the main character of FFXIII if, as you say, she really isn't that important to the story? Why do they put her on the box art of FFXIII-2 when she's largely absent from most of the game? Why does Motomu Toriyama think (or want us to think) that "Lightning Returns!" is a huge deal worth spending half his presentation talking about? She's not that interesting. She's a good-looking character design inhabited by a one-dimensional ghost that changes based on the whims of the current story she stars in.
It annoyed me when Halo's marketing started buying into its own hype about Master Chief's symbolic significance, and it annoys me here. I don't care that much about empty icons. I care about the game. I'd rather they tell me what they're actually making instead of trying to create empty buzzwords like "World-Driven" (so original, even the internet hasn't thought of it!) or trying to invest life-changing gravity into the very existence of their cardboard constructs.
Also, wish fulfillment may be in a lot of writing, but almost all of that writing is awful to read.
Pyrrhus
Member
What thighs?
Fimbulvetr
Member
Id certainly use the words datalog and lazy in the same sentence, but never in that way. It really is just a cheap, haphazard method of exposition, after all.LuuKyK said:
And no, its not because its text. Even in an audiovisual/interactive medium, text is a legit way of presenting information(albeit, only sparingly). The issue is that the datalog really doesnt have any narrative presence.
Does this information physically exist within the games universe? Who is chronicling all of this? Where did this information come from?
For FFXIII the answers to these questions, in order, are: no, *shrug*, and Toriyamas ass.
Lets look at two other examples of optional, text based exposition in games:
*The Scan Visor in Metroid Prime.
Does this information physically exist within the games universe? Yes; its just a bunch of files in Samus Power Suit.
Who is chronicling all this? Samus herself.
Where did all this information come from? Either the suit records information on structures, flora, and fauna after analyzing them, or the data came from computers that Samus used her suit to hack into.
*The Warren Report in Tactics Ogre.
Does this information physically exist within the games universe? Yes. Its literally a report on the events and people surrounding the war during which the game takes place.
Who is chronicling all of this? A Historian/Seer named Warren
Where did this information come from? Warren is not personally around for many of the things he includes in his report, but thats rectified simply by our knowledge of what Warren is, a Seer(i.e. a person who is reputed to have special powers of divination). The information he wouldnt be able to access through hearsay or good old fashioned research could easily be obtained through his powers. It also means the player can assume his information is unquestionably true, as he is able to see things unaltered by bias. Even then, none of the stuff he writes is necessary to understand the main plot or characters.
In both examples, the information provided has actual, watsonian context.
I thought you were cool, bro.DR2K said:
Maybe thats what loan sharks are called on Pulse? I had no idea Lightning was such a shrewd lender.Akainu said:
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Lightning would've made for a decent loan shark.
Team NORA would be her Repo Men & Women.
Team NORA would be her Repo Men & Women.
Lightning would also probably be more interesting as a main enemy, just make her more bitchy and make the battles against her fun.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Still expecting the whole "Announce the return of Lightning, play as Serah the whole game" to play out.
I can see Lightning fight GILGAMESH on a BRIDGE at some point.
I can see Lightning fight GILGAMESH on a BRIDGE at some point.
that's creepy and confirms Toriyama doesnt know the difference between strength of character and physical strength and special powers.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
As far as I'm concerned Lightning is one of the weakest characters in the series, mainly due to the fact she gets her ass handed to her on the pretense that her foe is on godhax mode and has a craptastic Xanatos Gambit revolving around himself.
KittenMaster
Member
In XIII Lighting was simply a cool character who wasn't too important for her own good and was fun to use (she wasn't even designed to be the main character). XIII-2 screwed that up though.
Under similar circumstances, any of the FF protagonists would of been fucked over by Caius because, as you stated, Xanatos Gambit (never knew what this meant until TVtropes). Lightning is definitely not one of the weakest though, hell I'd say she is one of the strongest (if we are including FFXIII-2 of course), with WoL edging her out as strongest although people say Bartz is pretty hax too.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Who's Warrior of Light?
You mean Fighter?
Nah, Black Mage > Fighter. Fighter's just got a fixation on shinies and sword-chucks. And while that's interesting and lovable, it's got nothing on hadokens.
You mean Fighter?
Nah, Black Mage > Fighter. Fighter's just got a fixation on shinies and sword-chucks. And while that's interesting and lovable, it's got nothing on hadokens.
Who's Warrior of Light?
You mean Fighter?
Nah, Black Mage > Fighter. Fighter's just got a fixation on shinies and sword-chucks. And while that's interesting and lovable, it's got nothing on hadokens.
LOL
I never understood why they didn't use Fighter for the default WoL costume for Dissidia since more people are used to his Fighter look.
How are these things even related? And unless you've been under a gigantic rock for the last 5 years Versus was shown multiple times.
Yeah, no one cares and still the saga was successful enough to guarantee three games.
You tried though.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I'll never ever understand why they went with that design as default either!
His Fighter costume > that... i don't know what that is
Haha oh wow.
Oh yeah, after the Sequel That No One Wanted certainly lit the charts on fire, people were waiting in droves for the Sequel of the Sequel That No One Wanted.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Square, just shut up and put her in a better story with better dialogue, thanks. And maybe a swimsuit. I'll even buy XIII-4 then.
Probably because it's Amano's design.
Btw, is your name from CT by any chance?
I agree with the bolded. Would make this old Lightning fan very, very, very, very happy.
When can we have our real Final Fantasy back? You know the one with interesting characters who live in interesting worlds? With cool optional bosses, weapons and characters as well as deep mini games? Not to mention towns, villages and a proper world map.
As for Lightning the less we see of her from now on the better. I just couldn't bring myself to care about her or her problems whilst playing.
As for Lightning the less we see of her from now on the better. I just couldn't bring myself to care about her or her problems whilst playing.
I will defeat sorrow, in his place. I will stand my ground and be strong. I dont know when it will be but someday,I will conquer it. And I will do it without false hope
I love me some Yuna. Until I came here I figured most people hated Yuna going by the people I knew.
Um... Yuna is one of the most popular FF females and in Japan was voted amongst the top gaming females of all time.
toastyToast
Member
I liek Litening becaoz she is a stronk wooman and a good roll model
Femmeworth
Banned
Then Yuna must not be as good as I remember. :x
Then that's good. I'm not alone in my adoration for Yuna. I figured Tifa killed the popular FF female charts.
I love her sending scene. Wish Lightning had an emotionally moving scene like that.
Well she doesn't, which is probably why I don't like her. She doesn't have anything that makes me care about her character.