You're missing the point. See my previous post.
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- Thread starter The Take Out Bandit
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You're missing the point. See my previous post.
pulga
Banned
Yes, yes, but im really having a hard time with people justifying Wolverine as some kind of moral compass, after all the shit he's done over the years, and damning Cyke as a villain. But you've got a point, as Scott said to Logan, he needs to be the guy who gets shit done, who keeps mutants alive. To me he's leaning more on the anti-hero side of the scale, not a full blown evil villain.
The announcement that Bendis is (probably) writing Uncanny X-men in a few months gives me hope that the extinction team won't be treated like complete saps to show off how cool the 15-16 year old versions of the original X-men are.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Who has said logans a moral compass? Wolverine is on the road to redemption, and he has a long way to go, but that doesn't excuse scotts actions.
pulga
Banned
"Some kind of moral compass". As in not a by the book definition, but he's definitely being painted as the straight up Xavier to Cyke's Magneto. Logan's far from a good guy, and it's mightily hypocritical of some people to damn Cyclops for "murder" while all the same championing Wolverine.
That's precisely the point. He is the guy that needs to get shit done...but at what cost?
And I didn't said he's a full blown villain...but he's becoming more and more a tragic one, the better kind of villain.
Parallax said it better than i could ever had in his previous posts.
Edit: I'm not "championing" Wolverine, and I'm pretty sure Parallax isn't either. Do you really believe the ends justify the means like Scott has been preaching Pulga? Things are not as black and white as you're saying.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Cyclops: Magneto
Wolverine: Professor X
Also, DAT UNCANNY X-FORCE
Wolverine: Professor X
Also, DAT UNCANNY X-FORCE
Scott's actions when exactly? When it comes to judgement, Scott's actions as host of Phoenix is the equivalent (or honestly, even less bad) of, say, Wolverine in "Enemy of the States."
They have both saved the planet countless times, and the whole idea that Scott somehow needs to rot in a second grade prison for all this or get a death penalty is straight-up bullshit to me.
If Scott was delusional because he put his whole faith in Hope being able to handle the Phoenix, then the whole Avengers are kinda the same when their instant reaction was "we cant allow THEM to do anything, we need to be in control of the situation, cause, you know...humanity and stuff". Delusional control freaks, every single one of them, in that case.
Avengers vs X-Men supposed to be an event with no clear bad and good, but the moment Phoenix-Scott said "
No more Avengers
And one more thing to add. Cap did not recognize the sovereignity and independence of Utopia. Simple as that. And it does not matter what reasons he had for ignoring that. Why? Because the moment he ignores it and screams "Attack" (knowing well that it will happen), he could just as well issue one against Latveria to get Doom. But there, suddenly international law is respected. Yep.
Marvel doesn't know how to handle events with moral ambiguity. Look at Civil War. They hyped that as being about two sides with no clear right or wrong, and then opened the first issue with SHIELD opening fire on Captain America because he refused their order to hunt down and arrest Superheroes (never mind the stuff that came after that). You could argue that it was Millar's fault for ignoring the established personalities of the characters he was writing, but most of the tie-ins were just as bad at demonizing the Pro-Registration side. Iron Man's solo book was one of the few exceptions I remember.
The books are just an excuse for fans to see (fun) superhero vs superhero battles. They have been doing this for decade. However, now they try to justify the fighting with some sort of ideological difference, when before they would have just had the Grandmaster whisk a bunch of heroes away to some Battleworld to duel it out.
You're completely ignoring the current state of the characters. Such is the nature of this medium, the characters and their personalities change. You're mad because they're making Cyclops a total ass while Wolverine is being more virtuous(as much as Wolvy really can). Don't read the books if you can't come to grips with it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I completely agree with the bolded. Unfortunately I can't think of a way to paint Scott's actions as "good" following AVX. The event could have been handled way better. The X-men (my favorite marvel heroes) came off definitely as the antagonists, as the bad guys.
Scott always had a moral compass, contrary to Wolverine. But Logan has been trying (with various degrees os success over the last years) to develop one, whereas Scott has chosen to disregard his to "get things done".
And I agree that both sides (X-men and Avengers) handled the situation poorly. But it's been proven that even with the Phoenix Force Hope wouldn't be able to restore mutants by herself. She needed the Scarlet Witch. I don't care if it sounds stupid that the Phoenix couldn't do it by herself, that's cannon now. Official marvel history.
Scott solution to the Phoenix issue could have achieved anything (including destroying the planet), except bring mutants back, which ironically was his only true goal. He could even create a world wide utopia, but one where there would be no mutants eventually. It would have been an empty victory.
And since when the USA or any other country for the matter recognize unilateral affirmations of sovereignty? Utopia was an asteroid placed on american territorial waters, it wasn't a country no matter what Scott said.
Finally I really didn't understand the AVX, Enemy of the State analogy. The Hand brainwashed and completely controlled Wolverine to attack other heroes, Wolverine recovered and killed then all. I'm not even arguing that they were bad guys. Logan did not attack his friends and killed Northstar of his own volition.
Scott willingly attacked other heroes like himself. Got "possessed" by the Phoenix and continued to oppose said heroes. He acted of his own free will, and then the Phoenix just made his sentiments stronger. I guess you could argue that he was a little intoxicated, but everything he did was his own choice. He doesn't even regret it.
Gillen said that the Phoenix doesn't make you do things, AVX Consequences mentioned that Namor would have attacked Wakanda regardless of the Phoenix possession. He's just like that. Why it should be different with Scott?
Wow, X-Men 38 is my official "Where the HELL did that come from?" comic of 2012... A writer I've never heard of, an artist I've never heard of both putting down great work on a Domino/Daredevil team up? Say what now?
I have no idea why that book exist or more importantly why it is called X-Men #38 and not Motherfucking Anything Else #1... Why wasn't this just Marvel NOW'd like everything else? How long is this book going to continue on like this with this writer and artist and numbering? What the fuck does this have to do with anything that has been going on in this adjectiveless X-Men book for the last 37 issues? Do I need to start finally paying attention to solicits so I can keep track of whatever the hell Marvel is doing? So many questions I have no answer to.
I have no idea why that book exist or more importantly why it is called X-Men #38 and not Motherfucking Anything Else #1... Why wasn't this just Marvel NOW'd like everything else? How long is this book going to continue on like this with this writer and artist and numbering? What the fuck does this have to do with anything that has been going on in this adjectiveless X-Men book for the last 37 issues? Do I need to start finally paying attention to solicits so I can keep track of whatever the hell Marvel is doing? So many questions I have no answer to.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Nah
Supermanisdead
Member
AvX debates? Nooooooo.
Cyclops was right
slightconfuse
Banned
How is dc not promoting the hell out of this book.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/11/07/buy-this-book-walter-simonson-the-judas-coin-review-batman-dc-/
In space no one can here you explode
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/11/07/buy-this-book-walter-simonson-the-judas-coin-review-batman-dc-/
In space no one can here you explode
fredrancour
Member
How I just communicated this fact to my friend:
"The new iron man was good. I like it better than extremis or fraction's invincible. I just hate that one stupid face greg land draws."
"The O face?"
"No the other one."
"Ah the stupid grin you want to punch."
Greg land what are you doing you should draw more than two types of female faces.
how ?
Amazing Comics!
Can't wait to see how this series wraps up... only 2 more issues!
How is dc not promoting the hell out of this book.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/11/07/buy-this-book-walter-simonson-the-judas-coin-review-batman-dc-/
In space no one can here you explode
owns
also I thought we were done with dumb Cyclops was right/wrong!! chat
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
the battle will never end.
Supermanisdead
Member
It will only intensify every time an issue of Uncannily Judgmental Avengers comes out or All New X-Men.
pulga
Banned
Oh, I'm not mad at all. Why would I be mad over a comic book? I'm actually loving the juxtaposition of the characters. I love Cyke's new "Magneto" role. I'm just peeved of the amount of Wolvy ass kissing going around, from Marvel to the message boards :lol
The hobo in the subway stealing FDR's wheelchair got me, funniest part of the comic.
No one liked Cyclops the boy scout, people liked Cyclops the leader, which he stills is.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
I only picked up Iron Man.
It's remarkable how similar this is to the first issue of Invincible Iron Man. At least Gillen didn't waste time and showed the new suit in action. I didn't instantly like the black and yellow, it could take some getting used too.
The art was typical Land, I was disappointed with the last panel. We've seen it many times in the films, Land could have given that panel more life.
It's remarkable how similar this is to the first issue of Invincible Iron Man. At least Gillen didn't waste time and showed the new suit in action. I didn't instantly like the black and yellow, it could take some getting used too.
The art was typical Land, I was disappointed with the last panel. We've seen it many times in the films, Land could have given that panel more life.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
wrong. boy scout cyclops is my favorite cyclops.
Yea, the art was bad. So far the only MarvelNow title I really liked was Deadpool. I'll give Iron Man a bit more time, but somehow I don't think it'll stay on my buy pile.
Well shit manOk, fess up bitches, who else can't help but read ME-TA-LEK in a Dalek voice?Just me?
Now I won't be able to say it any other way
slightconfuse
Banned
I think the new Cyclopes is cool.
Boy Scout general got old
Boy Scout general got old
GhostRidah
Member
This Saga wait is ridiculous, one more week though!
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Anti-hero is defined as someone who doesn't fit with the classical idea of what a hero is. "Doing what needs to be done" is a Knight Templar.
Well he did what needed to be done and it landed him in the hoosegow but I don't see how him
busting out of prison and smoking them poor, murdering bigots
I thought Deadpool was kinda funny but at the same time I didn't like the writing. I know I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed Way's run (for a while at least).
The art was pretty fantastic though, they should be moving Moore onto something a little more high profile than this.
Yeah, there were some funny jokes but I find a little bit of Deadpool goes a long way and don't like reading books that are completely Deadpool-centric for the most part. I still have no idea how Tony Moore got roped into slumming it on a Deadpool book but I have to imagine he won't be on it for long.
Punisher is considered an anti-hero. I don't see how Cyclops is doing anything worse that earns him the distinction of outright villain.
I don't recall history looking too fondly upon Templars either!
Justice was done.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Keith Giffen is bringing back Captain Carrot in Threshold! What a comics world we live in!
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
You know he runs a school right?
Tawney Bomb
Member
I feel your pain.
Memento Mori
Member
Kitty runs the school, Logan is AWOL most of the time.
Argument could be made that Doop runs the school. Kitty's a hell of an administrator though!
Tragicomedy
Member
Maybe it's because I'm coming to the character with virgin eyes, but Deadpool #1 was amazing. Fantastic art. I loved his quips. No LOL funny moments, but I never laugh at comics. I still liked the humor.
I'm definitely on-board this series. I might have to go back and read other Deadpool stuff.
The part where Lincoln shot him in the back of the head...awesome.
I'm definitely on-board this series. I might have to go back and read other Deadpool stuff.
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