Digital Foundry -- Halo 4 Tech Analysis

I thought R2 also had good models with great SS, I took these offscreen a long time ago but they look just as good direct feed:
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Resistance 2 still has the best character models ever. and the hate this game gets on GAF is fucking comical and out of line.

Resistance 2 portrays an alien invasion better than any other game out there. the scale is fucking amazing in that game and no other fps has even come close to matching the chicago bridge battle.
 
For me UC2 blows UC3 out of the water with the latter feeling rushed and looking rough in a number of places. UC2 was one of those rare games where you stop to look around and admire the visuals very often.
I found just as much evidence of 'rushing' in Uncharted 2 as in Uncharted 3. And in terms visuals, there is nothing about 2 that blows 3 out of the water. In most comparable scenes, 3 has the edge, often significantly.
 
I found just as much evidence of 'rushing' in Uncharted 2 as in Uncharted 3. And in terms visuals, there is nothing about 2 that blows 3 out of the water. In most comparable scenes, 3 has the edge, often significantly.

Please provide evidence of what was rushed in UC2? UC3 didn't even ship with motion blur out of the box. Have you seen how shit the shadows look in UC3? Or the distinct lack of AA?
 
Please provide evidence of what was rushed in UC2? UC3 didn't even ship with motion blur out of the box. Have you seen how shit the shadows look in UC3? Or the distinct lack of AA?

Well there was some form of PPAA in UC3 but sure it was one of the worst I've seen.

And yeah UC3 was so unpolished when compared to UC2 in all aspects.
 
Resistance 2 still has the best character models ever. and the hate this game gets on GAF is fucking comical and out of line.

Resistance 2 portrays an alien invasion better than any other game out there. the scale is fucking amazing in that game and no other fps has even come close to matching the chicago bridge battle.

Shame because Resistance 2 also had the worst lighting engine.
 
I thought UC3 was a notable step down, no motion blur (although it was added), worse IQ, and less consistent performance.

Apparently it has richer poly counts, but the other reductions were of greater value I think.

That's one of the things with Halo 4, the performance just does not buckle at all playing the campaign solo, it's very impressive. It's easy to recognize it looks much better than Reach, but it also runs nicer, although it does feel quite a bit slower.
 
That was 4xMSAA and FXAA and indeed, it looks incredible. Pretty huge performance cost though. I was just talking about SMAA as a low power cost replacement for FXAA only. Obviously something like Forza Horizon's solution would be better if not using deferred rendering and the processing power is available. I just don't want FXAA smearing up all the 1080p goodness of next gen.

Halas 1080p is not a given yet, especially not with AA. 720p with MSAA+post process AA could be the choice of several next gen games, because effectively eliminating almost any trace of AA could be preferred over a bigger resolution.

Weird, I play almost all my games with SGSSAA with no problem.

And I make pretty screenshots.

Yeah me too but there is no way this will ever be used on consoles, even next gen. Love it, but seeing how FXAA performs at a fraction of the cost, this is simply not viable.
 
I thought UC3 was a notable step down, no motion blur (although it was added), worse IQ, and less consistent performance.

Apparently it has richer poly counts, but the other reductions were of greater value I think.

That's one of the things with Halo 4, the performance just does not buckle at all playing the campaign solo, it's very impressive. It's easy to recognize it looks much better than Reach, but it also runs nicer, although it does feel quite a bit slower.

I have to agree in some ways. UC3 was a slightly inconsistent affair. And some of the added features and lighting elements imo actually sometimes worked against it. I.e the high contrast HDR lighting and shadows in the jungle and in Mexico(?). UC2 seemed far more consistent throughout. Having said that, the high points were higher than UC2's.

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On a side note, much has been said about certain games and their "fake" vistas. But you know what? Who gives a shit. I think sometimes devs try too hard to appease visuals fanboys and in doing so sacrifice artistic integrity or the greater look. Some of these Halo 4 vistas are absolutely gorgeous, and it doesn't matter one iota whether they're pre rendered or 2d or whatever or not. As long as it looks real and emphasises scale.

Similarly, I actually liked the blur and softness of KZ2, gave it that hyper cgi look which has sort of been lost in KZ3. Yes everything is much more detailed in no 3, but it also doesn't look as cinematic. And then there's the KZ engine in general, I actually much prefer this faked lighting engine to any version of actual HDR I've seen implemented. Even Crysis 2. For some reason HDR, no matter how well implemented, always comes off as too harsh and contrasty to me. KZ's lighting is far more artsy and atmospheric.

If you take movies for example, how often do you see the harsh glare or prominence of bled out sunlight or glare? Generally you don't, because things are colour graded or the scene is filmed with an ND filter to begin with. At least with longer scenes anyway. In this sense, HDR imo is sometimes a little over the top in it's implementation in most games.
 
Halas 1080p is not a given yet, especially not with AA. 720p with MSAA+post process AA could be the choice of several next gen games, because effectively eliminating almost any trace of AA could be preferred over a bigger resolution.



Yeah me too but there is no way this will ever be used on consoles, even next gen. Love it, but seeing how FXAA performs at a fraction of the cost, this is simply not viable.

I hope by god you are wrong. Another 8 years of 720p next gen will fail.
 
I hope by god you are wrong. Another 8 years of 720p next gen will fail.

I think 1080p will be far more prominent next gen. 1080p compared to 720p doesn't seem as taxing on newer architecture GPU's for some reason, just based on the way they're designed. On older hardware, resolution impacted performance far more than it does today.
 
On a side note, much has been said about certain games and their "fake" vistas. But you know what? Who gives a shit. I think sometimes devs try too hard to appease visuals fanboys and in doing so sacrifice artistic integrity or the greater look. Some of these Halo 4 vistas are absolutely gorgeous, and it doesn't matter one iota whether they're pre rendered or 2d or whatever or not. As long as it looks real and emphasises scale.

Similarly, I actually liked the blur and softness of KZ2, gave it that hyper cgi look which has sort of been lost in KZ3. Yes everything is much more detailed in no 3, but it also doesn't look as cinematic. And then there's the KZ engine in general, I actually much prefer this faked lighting engine to any version of actual HDR I've seen implemented. Even Crysis 2. For some reason HDR, no matter how well implemented, always comes off as too harsh and contrasty to me. KZ's lighting is far more artsy and atmospheric.

If you take movies for example, how often do you see the harsh glare or prominence of bled out sunlight or glare? Generally you don't, because things are colour graded or the scene is filmed with an ND filter to begin with. At least with longer scenes anyway. In this sense, HDR imo is sometimes a little over the top in it's implementation in most games.
I agree entirely.
What matters is not how assets are done, it's the final content that all them compose. If there is no point detailing something, just don't do it.
As for blur in VG, I'm not a fan when it's uncontrolled. But in KZ2, this is how the dev wanted the game to look, not just a downside of an AA technique.
Crisp looking CG images are perceived as unnatural, this is simply a fact. CG Movies actually often use an AA filter that add blur and soften the final image. I'd like to link Timothy Lottes article on TXAA but his site is unfortunately down atm.

And then HDR, or more accurately eye adaptation, is, as many "wow features" very overused. Now i don't mind it in Halo, where a flashy and coloured image always characterized the series. I Think in this case, it's the result of a thoughtful process, not a technology used as a gimmick.
 
I hope by god you are wrong. Another 8 years of 720p next gen will fail.
I must say i hope too, but i'm confident this is unfortunately a real possibility. Next gen could be less powerful than expected by most.
And if I had to chose between a jaggies free 720p and 1080p no AA for a console game, I'm not too sure what i would go for.
ps: sorry for dp.
 
I think 1080p will be far more prominent next gen. 1080p compared to 720p doesn't seem as taxing on newer architecture GPU's for some reason, just based on the way they're designed. On older hardware, resolution impacted performance far more than it does today.

I hope this happens, my gtx 260 can run most games at 1080p on my pc so I kind of expect that to be the norm, but as always with new consoles I try to keep the bar low in my head because someone out there will find a way to push visuals at 600p :P
 
I must say i hope too, but i'm confident this is unfortunately a real possibility. Next gen could be less powerful than expected by most.
And if I had to chose between a jaggies free 720p and 1080p no AA for a console game, I'm not too sure what i would go for.
ps: sorry for dp.

Even the IGP in a notebook-level Trinity APU is 4 times as powerful as the GPU in the 360. By this point it should be a piece of cake to outstrip the current consoles by a huge margin while still consuming less power.
 
I don't know how they calculated their numbers, but it's certainly true that PS4/720 GPUs will be far more powerfull than the RSX/Xenos. Not only more powerfull, but more advanced technologically.
The issue is that it does not mean 1080p will cost nothing, and developers will face the same dilemma as now : should we allocate our power for resolution or for features?
They will most likely have the choice between a crystal clear 720p or 1080p with much less filtering.(AA performance is very resolution dependent so that's one more issue).

They will have the ability to use 1080p, and i'm sure this will be the path for some games.
What i'm saying is that they won't necessary all go for that. 720p with 4xMSAA + FXAA is very, very effective, and even scaled, will be far more cleaner than 1080p no AA.
Of course this will be a little more blurrier, but please remember that we are all here exigent gamers. Most of the audience will most likely choose more eye candy over a better IQ. And it's not like 720p MSAA+FXAA is an horrible IQ overall.
 
Your PC isn't running with 512MB of RAM

RAM isn't the magical solution for everything, AF does not increase RAM usage.

Console GPUs have something like 12 texture unites while modern PC graphics cards have a couple hundred.

Makes more sense, thanks.

I don't know how they calculated their numbers, but it's certainly true that PS4/720 GPUs will be far more powerfull than the RSX/Xenos. Not only more powerfull, but more advanced technologically.
The issue is that it does not mean 1080p will cost nothing, and developers will face the same dilemma as now : should we allocate our power for resolution or for features?
They will most likely have the choice between a crystal clear 720p or 1080p with much less filtering.(AA performance is very resolution dependent so that's one more issue).

They will have the ability to use 1080p, and i'm sure this will be the path for some games.
What i'm saying is that they won't necessary all go for that. 720p with 4xMSAA + FXAA is very, very effective, and even scaled, will be far more cleaner than 1080p no AA.
Of course this will be a little more blurrier, but please remember that we are all here exigent gamers. Most of the audience will most likely choose more eye candy over a better IQ. And it's not like 720p MSAA+FXAA is an horrible IQ overall.

Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.
 
RAM isn't the magical solution for everything, AF does not increase RAM usage.



Makes more sense, thanks.



Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.

Nope. If we're comparing Forza 4 to Forza Horizon... 4XMSAA doesn't clean up all the jaggies alone. The lighting and high contrast breaks it in a lot of places. 4XMSAA plus FXAA does a much better job.
 
I think 1080p will be far more prominent next gen. 1080p compared to 720p doesn't seem as taxing on newer architecture GPU's for some reason, just based on the way they're designed. On older hardware, resolution impacted performance far more than it does today.

Well, we don't have the eDRAM issue anymore since we just use GDDR5, but per pixel effects are still vastly more expensive at 1080p.

It's worth considering almost every game you can play on a PC today is designed around running on a console that was released in November 2005, so it's actually incredibly hard for any such game to be taxing on a remotely modern GPU unless the port is horrible.

Building something that would run poorly at 1080p would quite likely be possible if you just made it so it could never run on the Xbox 360 in a million years.
 
RAM isn't the magical solution for everything, AF does not increase RAM usage.



Makes more sense, thanks.



Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.

lack of AF means there's a bandwidth issue.
 
RAM isn't the magical solution for everything, AF does not increase RAM usage.



Makes more sense, thanks.



Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.

You act like FXAA is a huge noticeable blur which in HALO 4 it isnt. The direct feed pics show.
 
Halas 1080p is not a given yet, especially not with AA. 720p with MSAA+post process AA could be the choice of several next gen games, because effectively eliminating almost any trace of AA could be preferred over a bigger resolution.



Yeah me too but there is no way this will ever be used on consoles, even next gen. Love it, but seeing how FXAA performs at a fraction of the cost, this is simply not viable.

And you can see it every time why the cost is so low, because FXAA looks like shit. If the devs can`t implement MSAA, then i prefer no AA to FXAA. FXAA is that bad.
 
Another comparison (Look at the foliage)

4XMSAA



MLAA



I want my games to be sharp.

The thing with FXAA is that the devs can decide how aggressive the filter is implemented. FXAA used slightly is OK like seen in Dishonored or Anniversary (Halo 4 looks noticeably softer by comparison despite having a higher resolution).

The Darkness 2, the new Need for Speed or at times Halo 4 have an aggressive FXAA implementation, and those games are just too soft for my liking.

I didn`t play Forza Horizon so i can`t say how aggressive the FXAA shader is used there, but generally most devs use FXAA too aggressive and for me it´s really unpleasing on the eyes.
 
Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.

Unlike MSAA, FXAA is a post process, so in nature it can't recreate missing elements. That's why it generally fails on near vertical/horizontal edges.
IF you have a first pass of MSAA, you have enough information in the picture for the FXAA to works more effectively without the need for it to be overly aggressive.

Also, MSAA does not resolve shader aliasing and FXAA can resolve transparency aliasing at a cheaper cost than TSAA/TMAA.

And you can see it every time why the cost is so low, because FXAA looks like shit. If the devs can`t implement MSAA, then i prefer no AA to FXAA. FXAA is that bad.
I avoid FXAA when i can, but once again, you're complaining of something most people won't even notice. Maybe you prefer no AA over FXAA, but as a developer, i would never go that way. FXAA will be considerably better for 99+% of the gamers.
Now if you are a PC gamer that's almost a non issue since you generally have the choice.
 
4XMSAA


4XMSAA + FXAA

You sure that first one is 4x MSAA? I'm asking because 4x doesn't have issues like that even in high contrast situations, at least on PC. That looks more like 2x MSAA to me. And there are plenty of alpha textures (the fence) in that pic, which MSAA alone won't touch.

The FXAA screen looks noticeably blurrier to me.

Ah not really.

Great argument. There are plenty of screens and direct feed trailers that show Halo 4 can look blurry due to FXAA.

Another comparison (Look at the foliage)

4XMSAA

Foliage is alpha texture, 4x MSAA alone won't fix that. MSAA + TMAA is the best solution for that. Nowhere near as blurry as FXAA.

Also, MSAA does not resolve shader aliasing and FXAA can resolve transparency aliasing at a cheaper cost than TSAA/TMAA.

Is it really cheaper, though? From my experience the performance difference between 4x MSAA and 4x MSAA + TMAA is practically nonexistent. I can see where FXAA would be advantageous if you didn't have enough power left to enable any MSAA, but if you're already going 4x MSAA, wouldn't TMAA be preferable? You'd get pretty comprehensive elimination of both polygon edge and alpha texture aliasing, and 0 blur.
 
You sure that first one is 4x MSAA? I'm asking because 4x doesn't have issues like that even in high contrast situations, at least on PC. That looks more like 2x MSAA to me. And there are plenty of alpha textures (the fence) in that pic, which MSAA alone won't touch.

The FXAA screen looks noticeably blurrier to me.

It's 4XMSAA. Playing in Time Trial on Forza 4 defaults to that AA solution. Plus you can see full LOD on the car.

EDIT: Beaten
 
Why would you want to add FXAA to 4x MSAA? The whole point of FXAA is it's a cheaper solution than MSAA with the downside that some implementations cause blurring. 4x MSAA would clean up the jaggies without any blur.

And both AMD and Nvidia cards are capable of transparency multisampling to target alpha textures. FXAA shouldn't be required.

Because it looks really goddamn clean. First time I saw the combo on pc was Alan Wake and I couldn't believe how nicely it worked. I'd never have thought to try combining the two techniques myself, but it comes out really nicely. Forza Horizons has only cemented that feeling. The IQ in both is unsurpassed outside of old school raw SSAA. If we see more of it down the line, i'm going to be very happy.
 
Just started playing Halo 4, and it is indeed, absolutely beautiful. Toss up for me between this and Uncharted 3 for best looking console game this gen.
 
Reiko, that's like the worst Kz2 image ever xD

But it's true, the quincunx aa used blurs the image way more than Halo 4's fxaa. It still looks incredible, at times; and I prefer Kz2 look to kz3.
 
Almost to the 7th mission right now. Game looks pretty damned amazing. Sacrifices were made to achieve it, and there is things Reach did better, just as there are things Halo 3 did better than Reach. That said the overall package is breathtaking, and every cutscene is pure eye candy.


The art design is absolutely stunning and only serves to make the impact of the graphical improvements that much more potent.



With 343i now likely working with Hardware that is 8-9 years more advanced than the 360, my minds eye struggles to think of just how good Halo 5 will look. I think in addition to ramped up scale we can expect a level of fidelity that will do the Halo universe justice in a way most fans could only ever dream of.

Here is to hoping we see an announcement trailer at or before E3 2014.
 

Some direct feed screencaps taken from my game cap. Never really noticed before that in light areas you can actually see the green of Chief's helmet on the sides. Reach's Warthog interiors and looked better in my opinion and in Halo 3, you would actually see the little dodads light up and move. I miss those little touches that Bungie did.
 
Some direct feed screencaps taken from my game cap. Never really noticed before that in light areas you can actually see the green of Chief's helmet on the sides. Reach's Warthog interiors and looked better in my opinion and in Halo 3, you would actually see the little dodads light up and move. I miss those little touches that Bungie did.

Cool pics mate, how did you take them? I mentioned the use of HD PVR. Is that what you used? I'd like to take some pics myself.
 
The QAA in Killzone 2 was a bigger noticeable blur than the FXAA used in Halo 4.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/124/928377_20090505_screen027.jpg[IMG]


But hey. Blur is Blur. (In this case the blur worked highly in Killzone 2's favor)

Levels of vaseline mileage may vary.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, QAA was really bad. KZ2 is the only game it looked OK in. For some reason though FXAA blur has this weird dirty looking effect to it that bothers me more, even though it isn't as pronounced in terms of obscuring the image. Halo 4 actually seems to have the least amount of that effect that I've seen, although I'm only going by direct feed screens since I won't be playing it in person for a couple more weeks.
 
I found just as much evidence of 'rushing' in Uncharted 2 as in Uncharted 3. And in terms visuals, there is nothing about 2 that blows 3 out of the water. In most comparable scenes, 3 has the edge, often significantly.

I agree with this, 3 looks quite a bit better. However, most people's memory of 2 is a little skewed. I played both this weekend back to back and the leap in visual fidelity is quite noticeable.

That said, with 3, in certain sections there's the feeling that ND is pushing the console to its absolute limits, and it's starting to show (I'm thinking of almost anything that's set in bright daylight (except the desert) where the image quality plummets. The young Drake stuff is a major culprit.

Based on what we've seen of TLOU, it looks like a lot of these image quality problems (relating to shadows and aliasing) have been addressed.
 
I agree with this, 3 looks quite a bit better. However, most people's memory of 2 is a little skewed. I played both this weekend back to back and the leap in visual fidelity is quite noticeable.

That said, with 3, in certain sections there's the feeling that ND is pushing the console to its absolute limits, and it's starting to show (I'm thinking of almost anything that's set in bright daylight (except the desert) where the image quality plummets. The young Drake stuff is a major culprit.

Based on what we've seen of TLOU, it looks like a lot of these image quality problems (relating to shadows and aliasing) have been addressed.

Aliasing is pretty prominent from what I've seen of TLoU. That'll likely change before launch but it seemed pretty jaggy in the last footage I saw (PAX gamplay)
 
Aliasing is pretty prominent from what I've seen of TLoU. That'll likely change before launch but it seemed pretty jaggy in the last footage I saw (PAX gamplay)

I believe ND's PPAA algorithm for UC3 and TLOU is still a bit weak compared to MLAA and even FXAA.

Since the engine is being stressed enough, MLAA is out of the question. FXAA seems like the perfect fit, unless their AA solution has more performance gains.

You can see where it works:

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And where it breaks all over the place

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