G-A-F? Gun Collector kills teen over loud music outside convenience store

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jdl said:
My main take away from all of this is playing your music offensively loud does increase your chances of being murdered by a potentially racist/non-racist/psychopathic/non-psycho murder killerer.
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YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO OLD MAN

wv43p.gif

fuck da police fuck da police fuck da police
 
iapetus said:
No, in this case the explanation we all naturally jump to is that the guy doesn't care much for black people, based on preconceptions about him.

I think we can all agree that he's a guilty-as-sin fucktard, but to be saying that his feeling of 'threat' was based entirely on skin colour rather than, say, the style of loud music being played is actually kind of a tricky position to take. There's got to be a concern that we're saying he must have been biased against young black men based on the fact that he's a middle-aged white man. Would he have been more 'threatened' by a black man in a suit working on an iPad or a white man playing rap music loudly?

Race is probably a factor, but right away we've got a whole load of people jumping in to act like it's the only factor, and while I wouldn't go as far as BPRD, that is kind of icky. For a whole host of reasons.
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The reason we jump to that conclusion is because more often than not it is the accurate conclusion. I think a lot of people are dismissing the depth and proliferation of subtle racism in America. Sure, it may not be the ONLY factor in this case, but to deny that it is a strong underlying factor is being willfully negligent, at least in my opinion.

Look at the implicit association tests: You aren't required to own a white klan hood and fly the confederate flag to harbor racist tendencies. With a knowledge of the climate and psychology of the country, it's not far fetched to make the assumption that the man acted with a racial bias. A white guy listening to rap music doesn't elicit the same sense of fear because people aren't conditioned to fear white people; Americans are conditioned to fear black people--and that is racism. And yeah, black guy in a suit? Think of how many people are deathly afraid of Barack Obama.
 
iapetus said:
No, in this case the explanation we all naturally jump to is that the guy doesn't care much for black people, based on preconceptions about him.

I think we can all agree that he's a guilty-as-sin fucktard, but to be saying that his feeling of 'threat' was based entirely on skin colour rather than, say, the style of loud music being played is actually kind of a tricky position to take. There's got to be a concern that we're saying he must have been biased against young black men based on the fact that he's a middle-aged white man. Would he have been more 'threatened' by a black man in a suit working on an iPad or a white man playing rap music loudly?

Race is probably a factor, but right away we've got a whole load of people jumping in to act like it's the only factor, and while I wouldn't go as far as BPRD, that is kind of icky. For a whole host of reasons.
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I think this was an act of fear and anger, and how much of that was due to racism is something only a therapist might be qualified to answer after a long period of interviewing. And maybe not even then. A lot of that is subconscious. But for now, I'll go with 38%. 38% racism/stereotyping, and 62% poor impulse control / being a horrible human being with a reckless disregard for human life. In all likelihood, from his perception he was shooting at what he believed to be thugs, living out his power fantasy.

I think potential gun owners should try and remember the angriest they've ever been and ask themselves if they would trust that person with a gun. If the answer is no then they shouldn't own a firearm.
 
This is just my opinion, but more than likely the teens antagonized the shit out of him after he asked them to turn it down. The dude raged out and grabbed his gun.

Point being, you never know who will fly off the handle so it's best to try and be polite, even if your pride has to take a back seat sometimes.

This is also just my opinion, but the young black teens may have not liked being asked to turn their music down by a white man and may have bucked up at him and threatened him.
 
iapetus said:
And you think the only way to identify someone as a gang member (rightly or wrongly) is by the color of their skin?
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Do you live in America?

You're talking about the same country where a black person can be deemed threatening because they're wearing a hoodie.

The same country where people lock their car doors and clutch their purses when a black person walks by.

The same country you can get stopped by police for being black in the wrong place.

The same country where a guy can shoot a black teenager carrying some tea and skittles and have people defend him as if he's a hero.
 
Mr. Patch said:
Do you live in America?

You're talking about the same country where a black person can be deemed threatening because they're wearing a hoodie.

The same country where people lock their car doors and clutch their purses when a black person walks by.

The same country you can get stopped by police for being black in the wrong place.

The same country where a guy can shoot a black teenager carrying some tea and skittles and have people defend him as if he's a hero.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which country we're talking about, and I know there is a lot of racism there, and that doesn't make it any better. By reducing everything to a cut and dry case of race, you're only ever going to reinforce the stereotypes.
 
iapetus said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which country we're talking about, and I know there is a lot of racism there, and that doesn't make it any better. By reducing everything to a cut and dry case of race, you're only ever going to reinforce the stereotypes.
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Barely anyone is gonna say a group of white kids looked like gangbangers. That's just how it is.
 
jdl said:
this amused me.

but in all seriousness. turn that shit down. have decency for the people around you.
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In all seriousness, you shouldn't get shot because your music is loud..
 
Blackace said:
In all seriousness, you shouldn't get shot because your music is loud..
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It's definitely a disproportionate response. But you take your chances when you show a complete disregard for everyone else. It's a passive equivalent to just being a total dick to everyone you meet. Eventually you're going to run into someone disgruntled who's going to flip out.
 
jdl said:
It's definitely a disproportionate response. But you take your chances when you show a complete disregard for everyone else. It's a passive equivalent to just being a total dick to everyone you meet. Eventually you're going to run into someone disgruntled who's going to flip out.
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You take your chances when you have loud music on?
 
jdl said:
It's definitely a disproportionate response. But you take your chances when you show a complete disregard for everyone else. It's a passive equivalent to just being a total dick to everyone you meet. Eventually you're going to run into someone disgruntled who's going to flip out.
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this response is weird. calling it a "disproportionate response" is way too light for what it is, and then you follow it up with "BUT YOU TAKE YOUR CHANCES". what the hell man lol. It's music. That kid could have been in love with music and if he wanted to listen to his shit as loud as he can, it's fine. yeah people might get annoyed, its obnoxious, but it's just music. if you really think people are dicks because they are playing their music loud, then you're just the real dick. the kid got shot for listening to music. it's fucking absurd.
 
jdl said:
It's definitely a disproportionate response. But you take your chances when you show a complete disregard for everyone else. It's a passive equivalent to just being a total dick to everyone you meet. Eventually you're going to run into someone disgruntled who's going to flip out.
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This is a pile of god damn bullshit. My neighbors have a shitty habit of blasting shirty music early in the morning. On weekdays. My response isn't and will never be to grab the 12ga and shoot them. Give me a fucking break.

And I got woken up to gungnam style on loop at 6:45am.

People bump music at gas stations all the time. I do it when I clean out my car. Never had someone say anything ever. If they did I'd apologize and turn it down.
 
ant1532 said:
this response is weird. calling it a "disproportionate response" is way too light for what it is, and then you follow it up with "BUT YOU TAKE YOUR CHANCES". what the hell man lol. It's music. That kid could have been in love with music and if he wanted to listen to his shit as loud as he can, it's fine. yeah people might get annoyed, its obnoxious, but it's just music. if you really think people are dicks because they are playing their music loud, then you're just the real dick. the kid got shot for listening to music. it's fucking absurd.
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If I apply your logic to something like loud talking then I take it to mean it's okay for me to scream my conversations wherever I go. That would eventually trigger someone's murder rage.

Mammoth Jones said:
This is a pile of god damn bullshit. My neighbors have a shitty habit of blasting shirty music early in the morning. On weekdays. My response isn't and will never be to grab the 12ga and shoot them. Give me a fucking break.

And I got woken up to gungnam style on loop at 6:45am.

People bump music at gas stations all the time. I do it when I clean out my car. Never had someone say anything ever. If they did I'd apologize and turn it down.
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I used to live across the street from one of those public self-serve car washes. At any given time half I could feel half a dozen subwoofers at full blast. It's aggravating, and assumed that going out of your way to say something would be a complete waste of time.
 
jdl said:
If I apply your logic to something like loud talking then I take it to mean it's okay for me to scream my conversations wherever I go. That would eventually trigger someone's murder rage.
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if i apply your logic sir, you should see if you can get a record deal of you screaming conversations. because apparently screaming and music are the same thing.
 
jdl said:
If I apply your logic to something like loud talking then I take it to mean it's okay for me to scream my conversations wherever I go. That would eventually trigger someone's murder rage.



I used to live across the street from one of those public self-serve car washes. At any given time half I could feel half a dozen subwoofers at full blast. It's aggravating, and assumed that going out of your way to say something would be a complete waste of time.
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Being aggravated doesn't justify killing someone. Not that I think you're saying that, I don't. It also doesn't justify starting an argument. Once again, my neighbors are rude douches but I'm not justified in attacking them.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Being aggravated doesn't justify killing someone. Not that I think you're saying that, I don't. It also doesn't justify starting an argument. Once again, my neighbors are rude douches but I'm not justified in attacking them.
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I don't mean to imply it's justified. Just pointing out the causality of it.
 
His defense is the Stand Your Ground law..His DA says the guy saw a shotgun in the SUV even though the police found no shotgun in the SUV...also why use the Stand Your Ground law as your defense when you're pretty much guilty by running 170 miles back home..yeah dude he's pretty much shooting himself in the foot at this point..I hope this fucker fries.
 
Music too loud? Holy shit, they were at a gas station, it's not going to be inconvenient for that fucking long. Finish filling your gas tank and bounce. Anything other than minding your own fucking business seems like a disproportionate response.
 
So many grayed out names, Good Lord!

OK let me get this straight

Racist Murderer pulls up to gas station
He's there for his son's wedding (has it happened or not?, alcohol anyone?)
Parks right next a huge SUV which is blasting music
RM complains to said SUV passengers to turn it down
Words are had
RM is threatened due to Young Black Negro and that Rap music, which correlates to the stereotypical "Thug" "Gangbanger"

So the RM shoots from his car into the other vehicle, due to being "threatened", thinks he sees weapon and it's just cause to fire first

This is some crazy shit

I know more details will be released, but so far it's clear what the real motive is and should be a hate crime

Florida still got Death Penalty?
 
Murder Charges Upgraded in Florida Killing of Youth
A grand jury indicted the defendant, Michael Dunn, 46, a software developer, on the first-degree murder charge on Thursday. Initially, he had been charged with second-degree murder. In Florida, all first-degree murder charges must be issued by a grand jury. Mr. Dunn, who lives in Satellite Beach, Fla., was also charged with three counts of attempted murder
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/us/charges-stepped-up-in-florida-killing-of-youth.html?_r=0
 
Is this the Florida version of the Southpark defense?
"It's coming right for us!"
 
Trey said:
The vast majority of gun owners are normal, law abiding citizens. Why don't we just call irrational/unhinged people scary instead?.
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Not this crap again...

Every murderer that used a licensed weapon was a law abiding citizen before the act.

It's a very clever stopping argument because it sounds reasonable although it's circular, that's why the NRA and cronies like it so much.
 
Rebel Leader said:
Look at the George Zimmerman shooting.

I keep hearing he killed the kid because he was black =/
I'm just getting tired of it
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I think it's not specifically "I'm going to kill this kid because he is black". It's more "media has indoctrinated me to fear black people more than white people, so I am more inclined to feel greater fear even when it's unwarranted which causes me to reach for my gun too quickly when dealing with black people."
 
BigDug13 said:
I think it's not specifically "I'm going to kill this kid because he is black". It's more "media has indoctrinated me to fear black people more than white people, so I am more inclined to feel greater fear even when it's unwarranted which causes me to reach for my gun too quickly when dealing with black people."
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Spot on
 
So the trial hasn't started so I figured this didn't need its own thread but I'm pretty sure this guy is racist.

Letters by Dunn from jail released this week by the State’s Attorney’s Office reveal disturbing racial animus. In a letter to an unknown recipient highlighted by Jacksonville’s WTEV, he writes:

It’s spooky how racist everyone is up here and how biased toward blacks the courts are. This jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. … This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these **** idiots when they’re threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior.

In another letter to his girlfriend highlighted by HLNtv, he writes:
I just got off the phone with you and we were talking about how racist the blacks are up here. The more time I am exposed to these people, the more prejudiced against them I become.

And in another to his grandmother, he says:
I’m not really prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug ‘culture’ that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable.
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...-loud-music-dispute-faces-murder-charge-week/

More from the original source:

"My fear is that if I get black on my jury it will be a mistrial, as I am convinced they will be racially biased," he writes.
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Another interview with a man who knew Dunn says once he tried to have a man killed because he had filed a lawsuit against his company.

He goes on to say Dunn's wife once told him that he had put a gun to her head and "threatened to blow her brains out" if she didn't do what he told her to do. The witness says he went to Dunn's home shortly after she told him this and took the gun from the home to his house.
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http://www.actionnewsjax.com/conten...Letters-from-jail/OQVxUk-BIUihecd6l1PRDQ.cspx
 
I really fucking hate the Stand Your Ground Law. Especially those who use it as a Get Out of Jail for Free Card.
 
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