My only issue was scarecrow. Really didn't like how he was handled.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
The Dark Knight Rises |OT2| The Legend... Continues
- Thread starter Guzim
- Start date
- Status
My only issue was scarecrow. Really didn't like how he was handled.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I feel the conflict with Ra's al Ghul was more personal and thus in a way better than in the other movies . The Joker was great and the performance was fantastic, but the is something about Ra's al Ghul's that I liked a little more; not in the character but in his involvement with Bruce.
I used to be in the BB > TDK camp for years too, until I did a rewatch prior to TDKR, and I actually came away thinking for the first time that BB isn't the best. That first hour or so is still amazing, but the second half--despite having a number of really excellent scenes--is really just silly, and the stakes don't feel nearly as important as they do in TDK or TDKR. Part of that may have to do with the villains. I love how Neeson and Murphy play their roles, but neither villain is all that intimidating or threatening, especially in light of the Joker and Bane.
I also think BB moves too quickly, which is kind of a weird complaint because I like the idea of a lean blockbuster when every blockbuster nowadays (good or bad) is just too long. But BB moves too briskly imo; it just moves from one plot point to the next and I remember feeling like there wasn't a lot of breathing room between developments.
Out of curiousity/boredom, I decided to assemble such a list to see what I'd actually put on it.....movies are in chronological order and start with the first blockbuster, Jaws.
Jaws (1975)
Alien (1979)
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981)
E.T. (1982)
Ghostbusters (1984)
Back To The Future (1985)
Aliens (1986)
Robocop (1987)
Die Hard (1988)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991)
The Rock (1996) for serious!
The Matrix (1999)
The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring (2001)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Batman Begins (2005)
Casino Royale (2006)
Okay, I guess that's 17....
No Jurassic Park?
Messypandas
Member
The Joker hinting, in fact the ending in general is probably one of my favourite endings in films. Nolan had fleshed out the perfect moody and 'serious' world to be turned out its head by something as visually interesting and contradictory as the Joker. My mind was racing to wonder how it would work at the time.
demosthenes
Member
Where his True Lies?
wish the movie was R. The scenes with guns firing and bullets hitting targets comes across as so clean. Like the opening scene with Bane's thugs landing on the plane and firing through the plane's windows .. it's like they just fire blindly into the air. So many of the scenes are lazy like that. Really weird and very poor attention to detail in the action.
My man! Neeson infused Rhas with so much soul. A case of an actor completely elevating what was on paper.
Nope, I've got lots of issues with that one.
That's actually a pretty dang good list, though I wouldn't have The Rock, Begins or Casino Royale on my list (even if I love them, well, actually I don't like The Rock much but the other two
) I don't know that I'd consider the first Alien a blockbuster popcorn movie though.What about The Incredibles?
...I find you distasteful.
That's actually a pretty dang good list, though I wouldn't have The Rock, Begins or Casino Royale on my list (even if I love them, well, actually I don't like The Rock much but the other two
Yeah, it can be tricky deciding what I do/do not consider to be a blockbuster. I agree that Alien is questionable in that regard.
EDIT: if I were adding animation, Lion King and Incredibles would be there.
"Once I had a wife ..... "
Am I the only person on earth who loved that line?
Killing_Joke
Member
The entire movie was filmed in Chicago IIRC.
In TDKR it makes sense they used NYC because of all the bridges and tunnels. Chicago would be a pretty hard cty to take hostage. lol
Want to be more specific, bud? Which movie are you referring to?
Yep! Man, Neeson straight out slayed that role. The fact that he's the villain and yet you like him and agree with most of what he says is the hallmark of a great baddie.
Yep! Man, Neeson straight out slayed that role. The fact that he's the villain and yet you like him and agree with most of what he says is the hallmark of a great baddie.
Precisely my thoughts on both. Joker and Bane feel like real, frightening threats. Ra's gentlemanly demeanor and appearance, and Scarecrow's Cillian Murphy-ness made it impossible for either to be intimidating. They're both on Loki level. Fine villains who work well in their story, but nowhere close to the best.
That sneaky fucking Russian.
Criminals mock society's laws. Bruce, please, there's no going back.
That whole scene makes me LOL hard, because it's this awesome intro to Batman with the swooping through the shadows, getting shot at, beating everyone up, then bursting through the sun roof and grabbing Falcone, then we randomly cut to bum who apparently didn't hear any of that gunfire or commotion or Falcone yelling or the window shattering, he's just chilling there by a trashcan fire and he looks up just in time to see Batman deliver this line. It's all so artificially put into the movie, having Wayne give the coat to the bum earlier just so there can be a call back to it later, just like the "Didn't you get the memo?" thing.
Its just a joke to me now, me and my friends say it all the time.
I really like some of what we get from Bane, I love his first fight scene with Batman in TDKR and his monologue during the fight, but yeah. Rhas is just more interesting. He feels more like a character instead of just a villain, if that makes sense.
Bane is a far more memorable villain than Ra's for his voice alone. Add in the fact that he is legitimately scary in a lot of his scenes (compare Bane's first confrontation with Batman to Ra's confrontation with Bruce in Wayne Manor) and it becomes obvious how anyone could prefer Bane.
triplestation
Member
I feel like playing Bane isn't too hard a task and could be done a lot better. The voice isn't even hard to do. Fucking Kevin Smith could do it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Bane was easily the weakest villain in the series. Unless we're counting Talia, then there's a close battle for shit place.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I didn't find his voice very good. It felt out of place many times. Granted some of his scenes aren't that bad, but he is the least memorable of the three villains by far. Really some lines were off, even during the famous first fight. His character is hurt by many factors and that just puts him way below.
Messypandas
Member
I think Ras is a good accompanying villain to the Joker, but I still put Joker above him. I think it was genius to excise the chemical fall or red hood shenanigans crafting a true, unmotivated manifestation of evil. All contemporary comic-book villains felt the need to shoehorn a sympathetic origin to create depth to the villain (Magneto, Green Gobby, Dr Ock, Sandman bunch of other shit ones i'm forgetting) was refreshing to have someone be bad for the fuck of it.
Fixed
That we wasn't just dead set on destruction? He was a mentor the Bruce, a father figure, he trained him physically and mentally, he shared a similar tragic past, and even in the end he was still trying to educate Bruce.
Bane has HULK SMASH. Boring.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
What Solo said. Just that he is a character we get to know and like, and is developed way before we know he is the villain helps build him a lot.
I know this didn't happen to many fans, but in truth I have never read the comics and to be honest I didn't know of Ras before I saw the movie; so it had a different effect on me. Besides I went in blind.
triplestation
Member
FOR YOU
What's interesting is that pretty much all of what Rhas teaches is what Bruce takes and uses to become Batman. They both believe in the same things but have a different execution for putting those beliefs into action. It's almost like a nurture vs. nature thing. If Bruce didn't have an Alfred he may have ended up more like Rhas. That's fascinating to me.
Bane, tragic past? Check.
LoS connection with Bats, creating an interesting parallel with our hero? Check.
Not dead set on destruction? Check.
Actually a force to reckoned with, as opposed to a force to sit back and discuss Keynesian economics with? Check.
Bane is everything Ra's was, and more.
Just watched it, probably old complaints. But I didn't like it that much. There were a lot of interesting ideas, but all of them felt pretty sloppy and there wasn't much payoff.
- Alfred was pushed out quickly, apparently so Batman could go emo/train in prison. This bothered me more than anything else. The dialog was hammy as shit, and it was like the movie couldn't wait to be rid of him - The PRIMARY F'ING FAMILY FIGURE IN BATMAN'S EXISTENCE. lolbye, we gotta get emotional. Blah. Him crying at the end, again, just reinforces how forced this whole thing was.
- Catwoman and Robin were handled better. Robin in particular was the most interesting thing about the movie. I really dug the subtle build up, and I'm usually a Robin-hater.
- Script apparently couldn't decide if Batman and Catwoman were a thing or not. Playful banter. Other girl. Dead stop. Oh she's evil. Kissykissy. Bye again. Happily ever after? The fuck.
- Cold-storing 3000 cops beneath the city for 5 months? Yeah. Whatever by this point. Bane's a criminal genius! You just don't get it! No. Unless plot holes, a forced narrative, and damn near magical-acts suddenly qualify.
- Cops vs Thugs/mercenaries. Brawling in the Steet. Batman fighting out in the open, during the day, in front of everyone. This was right out of an Adam West movie. Just needed a "KAPOOW!" or two.
Everything not involving Batman or Bane was okay enough. The actual setup was interesting (as it was in the Comics, derp) even if it was forced and unbelievable to get there, but the resolution was awful. Felt like everything "Batman'ish" about Batman and the other characters was tossed out just to get to that derpsadnowbigmoment! ending.
And the scarecrow has to be the biggest example of wasted potential. The actor & character could've made for a good movie, and it would've tied in a lot more with Batman traditional struggles a lot more then whatever this was suppose to have been about.
Overall, you could more or less change "Batman" to "DarkSuitGuy" and the movie wouldn't been any different. I don't think Nolan wanted to make Batman movie at all this time.
- Alfred was pushed out quickly, apparently so Batman could go emo/train in prison. This bothered me more than anything else. The dialog was hammy as shit, and it was like the movie couldn't wait to be rid of him - The PRIMARY F'ING FAMILY FIGURE IN BATMAN'S EXISTENCE. lolbye, we gotta get emotional. Blah. Him crying at the end, again, just reinforces how forced this whole thing was.
- Catwoman and Robin were handled better. Robin in particular was the most interesting thing about the movie. I really dug the subtle build up, and I'm usually a Robin-hater.
- Script apparently couldn't decide if Batman and Catwoman were a thing or not. Playful banter. Other girl. Dead stop. Oh she's evil. Kissykissy. Bye again. Happily ever after? The fuck.
- Cold-storing 3000 cops beneath the city for 5 months? Yeah. Whatever by this point. Bane's a criminal genius! You just don't get it! No. Unless plot holes, a forced narrative, and damn near magical-acts suddenly qualify.
- Cops vs Thugs/mercenaries. Brawling in the Steet. Batman fighting out in the open, during the day, in front of everyone. This was right out of an Adam West movie. Just needed a "KAPOOW!" or two.
Everything not involving Batman or Bane was okay enough. The actual setup was interesting (as it was in the Comics, derp) even if it was forced and unbelievable to get there, but the resolution was awful. Felt like everything "Batman'ish" about Batman and the other characters was tossed out just to get to that derpsadnowbigmoment! ending.
And the scarecrow has to be the biggest example of wasted potential. The actor & character could've made for a good movie, and it would've tied in a lot more with Batman traditional struggles a lot more then whatever this was suppose to have been about.
Overall, you could more or less change "Batman" to "DarkSuitGuy" and the movie wouldn't been any different. I don't think Nolan wanted to make Batman movie at all this time.
batman begins!
but all of nolan's batmans suffer from roughly the same problems although i do feel that tdkr is the best one in terms of cinematography at least.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
And none of that had any effect on me. It didn't feel as honest as Ras' character. He just wasn't better. Some of it was forced, just to make connections.
triplestation
Member
lol
and all he did most of the time was stand there and grip his coat
he had no development whatsoever, and nothing about his acting in general even gave a clue to what his past was like
and anyone can put on a respirator and imply they were injured in the past, shit is lazy
I'm not sure what you mean when you say forced.
No matter though. In the years to come, Joker will obviously remain the most memorable villain from the trilogy. But Bane will be the second. Ra's will always be remembered as "Liam Neeson".
I think they underwrote him.
They were trying to have them relate by giving them similar backgrounds via the League of Shadows but it just didn't work for me. I almost wish it was revealed that they trained together or SOMEthing. And the jail just confused things.
You're told Bane was the person that climbed out and then he isn't. Then you're told the jail is this horrible dark place and then we see it and they have cable. There was too much filling in the blanks for his character. I could never really decide what opinion to have of him because they kept presenting things that stood in direct contrast to my perceptions.
And then you kind of find out that he was just some dude. I really don't see what they gained by having Talia be the person that climbed out. It did precisely nothing for her character.
triplestation
Member
by the neuro-typical audience, yeah
I don't know what that means.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Good thing Nesson is just great, plus he never got denutted in such a lame way. And his voice didn't sound fabricated and taped over.
triplestation
Member
by the same kind of people who enjoy how i met your mother
Futurevoid
Member
bangladesh said:
Liam Neeson also played Ra's as he played Qui Gonn as he played "Jack Bauer" in Taken.
- Status