Real Talk: Pokémon Gold, Silver and Crystal are the worst in the series.

Wiseblade

Member
Time to take off the nostalgia glasses, people. I'm tired of people holding Generation II up as the pinnacle of the franchise, and an 11th placing on GAF's Essential RPGs - 2013 Edition was the final straw. So now I'm going to explain exactly why GSC are the worst Pokémon cames so you can all become better people.


Johto is the worst region in the franchise

And by a good margin. It's easily the smallest, with the fewest regions, most of them being short and linear. But what is arguably worse is the Pokémon diversity throughout Johto. The new Pokémon show up less often as Kanto staples with staples Which leaves the whole experience feeling stale. How is it a new adventure when I'm still running into Ratatta and Pidgey on the first route?

Actually take the first Route in GSC as an example. The tall grass ancounter rates are:

55% Pidgey
40% Hoothoot
5% Ratatta

That's a 60% chance to run into a RBY Pokémon as the first thing you do in a new game. And the trend continues throughout.

The "story" is painfully dull

Team Rocket? Again? It just feels like cheap pandering to make them the antagonist a second time round, especially when their driving motivation is the find their leader who disbanded three years prior. It's just pointless and almost undoes the efforts of the player in Red/Blue/Yellow.

Silver is also a poor rival. His talk about hating the weak rings hollow when he is constantly losing to the PC. At least RBY mitigated the Badass decay by having Blue constantly be one step ahead of the player when it came to earning badges. And Black/White's Cheren goes one step further by having it become part of his character development.

I don't like Lance either. Why is an Elite Four member getting promoted to Champion? Having someone new come to take the role would have been better than "that guy I beat in the first game". Also, his cape is stupid.

The Johto League is laughably easy

It's so pedestrian it hurts. There's maybe one fight in the whole game that comes close to a challenge (And I don't get how people had trouble with Whitney, I steamrolled her first time), while everything is just pounding on Youngster Joeys. Lance is also the lowest levelled champion in the series and is a cakewalk to anyone with enough brain cells to remember that he used dragons in RBY and that Dragons are weak to Ice-type attacks.


Kanto is an absolute trainwreck

The region gets absolutely gutted in the transition from Gen I to Gen II. For starters, Cerulean Cave, Seafoam Islands, Pokémon Mansion, Power Plant, Safari Zone and Viridian Bloody Forest are all missing, with the other points of interest drastically scaled down. The oft-lauded Kanto Gym leaders are just as easy as the rest of the game, too. In fact, Blue's team as Viridian city Gym leader is lower levelled than his team as Champion in RBY. The whole place is hollow and lifeless, little more than half a region. And not even the half that's missing from Johto!

The fact that Kanto is in the game makes the underexposure of the Gen II Pokémon in the first half all the more baffling.

In Conclusion

The game takes place in two half-regions instead of a whole one. The repetition of old Pokémon and characters throughout the main story makes the game feel small. The new Pokémon and characters either don't show up nearly enough or are just boring. Finally, it chooses Generation I nostalgia bait over actual post-game content.

TL;DR

You remember wrong. GSC suck. Go play Black and White instead.
 
I don't agree, Pokemon Gold (and Silver) are amazing games and in my top RPGs of all time. I'll post why they are great later, but for now, this.

Johto is not a small experience is a full fledged one, and I find it to be amazing. Anyone who says it is "gimped" is wrong. Take a look at the maps below.

Kanto

4s3Gs.png


Hoenn

ykAro.jpg


Johto

Pyj9z.png


Johto is almost the size of Kanto, and if you remove all of that big space of empty water that you won't be using much since you'll be flying with HMs, it's practically the same.

I'd take this which was on a original gameboy cartridge over that.

ZlIzC.png


It may not be a 1:1 replica, but as you can see it looks pretty darn good. Being able to fight all the Gym Leaders from the previous game and do almost everything I could except for a few things was so fun for me.

Rival Music

Rival battle music has taken a step down with Black and White in my opinion.

Enthralling, great battle music.​

Emphasis on a powerful tone to show you, the player, that this isn't just a 'normal' battle.​

Another good song, I prefer the first two vastly more due to their instrumentation, but this still pretty good and vastly better than this next one..​

What is this?! It doesn't even sound like battle music, I feel like I'm listening to some carnival route music or something. This is not in anyway a battle song, nothing engaging, nothing to show a different significance, no determination, just a 'happy' sound completely out of place. They turned what was once an engaging part of the game into "let's frolic and skip together my rival!".​

World has become excessively linear too.

JRPEU.png



Pokemon Stories

Regardless of which Pokemon game you play, every story has you as "Super Soldier Pokemon Trainer who doesn't lose to anything and must stop the evil team".
You as the character do the same thing all the other main characters do and just smile and conquer your Rival, The Elite Four, and the bad guys.

As all the previous games, the characters around you are different in personality, but they still tell you the same things. "You are great" "You have potential" "So much power.." "I realize things now". The main character never does anything different, and more characters following you around doesn't alter anything when they all do the same exact things, and tell you the same things.

There's nothing different about the Black and White story other than they they swapped around the elite four ending with a evil team ending. You still do the same things.

Battle Speed

People will mention all the time that Black and White is fast, but Pokemon Gold is just as fast. (And he doesn't even have his text speed set to the fast setting)

http://youtu.be/54TusEWI4wM?t=49s

Graphics

I think the graphics have taken a step down with the recent games personally, and for a few reasons.

Pixelated Animations

Look at these below. The animations are blocky and pixelated, and they don't use proper animation like a sprite is suppose to have in an official product. It's very lazely done and it amazes me how they can do this when the Pokemon games make so much profit.

UxIxc.gif
ZxCD8.gif
JVr5X.gif


I'd much rather they not animate at all if they are going to do this, it'll look a lot better without the animation. The first still/standing sprite looks good, though.

Stretching/Scaling with 2D on 3D

For some reason they utilize a 3D camera with 2D sprites, and the camera is getting put in various different ways, thus, stretches the sprites which looks awful. The 3D that's also used is also really dry looking in my opinion sometimes, I'd rather they stick to full 2D or go full 3D because this mix isn't an improvement.

iuWML.png

dU4ma.jpg

bj3YN.png


And what is with the 3D platforms and backgrounds in battle? They looks so dull and dried out compared to the 2D ones we got from DPP.

6Xq7T.jpg


My Opinion

So in other words, I do not agree that this game is the worst version, I think it's one of the greatest games of all time and is a testament RPG greatness. I do not agree that the newer games are just so much better and I feel quite the opposite and feel Gold is just so much better. Regarding designs, I'll state something about this below, but I do personally feel the designs of Gen I and Gen II were much better done in comparison to most other designs in the later games, but there are great designs in each and every one of the games to me. I also haven't experienced any issues with my Pokemon being underleveled in any Pokemon game.

Pokemon Generations Creativity Dispute

I'd like to discuss the popular dispute that -insert this Gen is more creative because so and so, and that makes it the better generation in terms of Pokemon designs-.

Let's start off by saying that, more than likely, all this is a matter of opinion. What one deems creative, another may think is not creative. I will go ahead and share my opinion that I think every single generation has some 'bad' designs in it, but that's my opinion. For one to say one generation is better than the other is not a fact, nor will it ever be. However, a lot of dispute goes over what exactly is creative, and that creativity means good. Creativity can mean either good or bad, it doesn't entirely mean good, that's up to the user to decide.

A design doesn't have to be creative for it to look good, and that's where I think a lot of misconception comes from. A lot of disputes are tailored around the least creative designs being the worst, neglecting if the actual appearances are appealing. Now I'm not going to defend stuff like Voltorb or the Vanilluxe line, but I'm more so referencing Pokemon like Pidgey, Torchic, or Wurmple.

In short: Pokemon that aren't creative can look decent, and don't require creativity to be. Creativity is a bonus, though.

Nostalgia

Another thing that is brought up is that people will reference nostalgia if they like the previous versions, however, that line of thinking doesn't make sense. Nostalgia simply means a memory of a past good time, it does not mean biased, and nostalgia will never have that effect unless the person is biased. Because someone likes something else, it doesn't equate to a specific negative reason, and to tie to to that would make you actually the biased one.

I think using nostalgia is rather silly in itself, there are reasons people like whatever they like. Now, if it's from someone who stopped playing at the original games and says "the newer Pokemon games are terrible, blahblahblah." then there's where that argument can be brought up. For those who will say they liked the older generations more, and have participated in the later gens, I don't think it's fair at all to label that as nostalgia. It can easily be thrown around without any given reason, and has no basis unless it's what I stated before about never playing the games.

Let's say DPP/BW are your favorite versions, and ten years from now you still think they are your favorites, that wouldn't make you "nostalgic". And yes, I think there are highs and lows to every generation, it's purely preference in the end.


PS:

Dunsparce is rad and it's better than fighting foodon ice cream cone, mushroom monster, and mutated garbage bag!

PSS:

My BW references are not meant to show that BW is a bad game, but they are to show my points.

PSSS:

Honestly, I feel the ability system that was introduced in Gen III is a double-edged sword. It's cool that Pokemon have unique abilities now, but the problem is they aren't done too well on a lot of them and aren't that unique since so many Pokemon use the same ones. The actual main problem is that a Pokemon can be either 'good' or 'bad' for battling strictly if they have or have not a 'good' or 'bad' ability. So many Pokemon are practically useless in the competitive scene due to this.
 
Dammit Wiseblade, don't crush my nostalgia with your soapbox.

First post nails it like never before, sorry OP. First post of the forever.
 
Wiseblade
Member
(Today, 03:47 AM)

Kokonoe
Member
(Today, 03:47 AM)

Wow

I agree with Kokonoe <3
 
How the hell did 1st post manage to type all that before anyone else replied.
 
I came in this thread expecting Pokemon real talk and Koko brought it. I feel like I just watched him have sex with OPs wife while throwing down Pokemon knowledge.
 
Damn Hoenn is fucking massive.

I really enjoyed Gold/Silver. Jhoto was a great region, and I loved the fact that team Rocket was the villain again. The other teams in subsequent games just don't compare. They're like Team Rocket only lamer. Gold/Silver had some great moments like the red Garados and the radio tower segment.

And that final boss.
 
The "story" is painfully dull
The games barely had a "story" before Black/White. And no one plays


Johto is the worst region in the franchise

The Johto League is laughably easy

Kanto is an absolute trainwreck

These were all intentional decisions due to the limitations of the game boy cart. You simply couldn't fit two whole worlds in without making them smaller. Likewise, having a whole new world to go to after the Elite 4 is why the Johto league is easier than usual. You're suppose to get there at a lower level than usual.



Compared to Red/Blue, Gold/Silver are an amazing streamlining of the Pokemon experience and give an amazing amount of variety in both area and gameplay, especially for an 8-bit gameboy game. Black/White, in contrast, could learn a thing or two about streamlining from Gold/Silver in order to eliminate a lot of the bloatedness that detract from the experience.
 
Wiseblade
Member
(Today, 03:47 AM)

Kokonoe
Member
(Today, 03:47 AM)

Wow

I agree with Kokonoe <3

Kokonoe has been adding to his/her original reply so its not like they posted all that instantly. Though it seems to have been added in pretty damn quickly regardless.
 
How is what Kokonoe did possible?


Also, OP is wrong. Pokemon Gold was amazing at the time. They had a lot to live up to after RBY and they succeeded.
 
What? A Pokemon generations discussion. Just taking an accurate count reveals much.

Will continue to read the massive first reply.

Honestly, I feel the ability system that was introduced in Gen III is a double-edged sword. It's cool that Pokemon have unique abilities now, but the problem is they aren't done too well on a lot of them and aren't that unique since so many Pokemon use the same ones. The actual main problem is that a Pokemon can be either 'good' or 'bad' for battling strictly if they have or have not a 'good' or 'bad' ability. So many Pokemon are practically useless in the competitive scene due to this.

Oh, and talking about competitive battling is a very tricky subject. With a game like Pokemon, the design space only allow so much room for tiers. The ability system doesn't really affect this fact too much. I'm just using some applied pigeonhole principle.
 
G/S/C were safe, by the books sequels. It fixed a lot of issues with the originals and added a lot contentwise, but it took the mechanics changes of Generation 3 to really let it shine.

Great at the time, but compared to what we'd see later, kinda weak. When those later changes are applied to G/S/C retroactively with HG/SS, they're the best in the series.
 
Goddamn at that first reply (which I agree with). 2nd Gen was amazing; still is today.

Also, using Pokemon story as an argument is just lol. Pokemon has never been played for it's story, and they're all pretty much the same thing anyway.
 
Kanto was nice, but it did seem lifeless compared to the original. I didn't mind because I saw it as bonus content anyway.
 
I suppose I'll get this out of the way regardless of my joking sometimes on this subject just so I can reference it later.

Pokemon Generations Creativity Dispute

I'd like to discuss the popular dispute that -insert this Gen is more creative because so and so, and that makes it the better generation in terms of Pokemon designs-.

Let's start off by saying that, more than likely, all this is a matter of opinion. What one deems creative, another may think is not creative. I will go ahead and share my opinion that I think every single generation has some 'bad' designs in it, but that's my opinion. For one to say one generation is better than the other is not a fact, nor will it ever be. However, a lot of dispute goes over what exactly is creative, and that creativity means good. Creativity can mean either good or bad, it doesn't entirely mean good, that's up to the user to decide.

A design doesn't have to be creative for it to look good, and that's where I think a lot of misconception comes from. A lot of disputes are tailored around the least creative designs being the worst, neglecting if the actual appearances are appealing. Now I'm not going to defend stuff like Voltorb or the Vanilluxe line, but I'm more so referencing Pokemon like Pidgey, Torchic, or Wurmple.

In short: Pokemon that aren't creative can look decent, and don't require creativity to be. Creativity is a bonus, though.

Nostalgia

Another thing that is brought up is that people will reference nostalgia if they like the previous versions, however, that line of thinking doesn't make sense. Nostalgia simply means a memory of a past good time, it does not mean biased, and nostalgia will never have that effect unless the person is biased. Because someone likes something else, it doesn't equate to a specific negative reason, and to tie to to that would make you actually the biased one.

I think using nostalgia is rather silly in itself, there are reasons people like whatever they like. Now, if it's from someone who stopped playing at the original games and says "the newer Pokemon games are terrible, blahblahblah." then there's where that argument can be brought up. For those who will say they liked the older generations more, and have participated in the later gens, I don't think it's fair at all to label that as nostalgia. It can easily be thrown around without any given reason, and has no basis unless it's what I stated before about never playing the games.

Let's say DPP/BW are your favorite versions, and ten years from now you still think they are your favorites, that wouldn't make you "nostalgic". And yes, I think there are highs and lows to every generation, it's purely preference in the end.
i'm onto you kokonoe

I can't find anything else so maybe you prepared it privately I don't know
 
Greatest first reply ever.

Gen 2 is the best that I've played, followed by Gen 1 then Gen 4.
Still have not played Gen 5. Gen 3 will always be the worst for me, other than the amazing legendary designs.

And if you account for the time they came out, Gen 1 and 2 by a landslide. Obviously there have been additions to the formula but nothing as impressive as what they accomplished with the first two games.
 
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