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[funkystudent]

I had a interesting thought.

With rumours currently saying the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty identical under the hood outside of some variables like RAM and versions of the GPU I wonder what will happen to all the port houses that sprung up this generation? Will they be out of a job when porting between the two platforms is relatively painless?

 

[Sid]

I had a interesting thought.

With rumours currently saying the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty identical under the hood outside of some variables like RAM and versions of the GPU I wonder what will happen to all the port houses that sprung up this generation? Will they be out of a job when porting between the two platforms is relatively painless?

Merge into the main teams?

 

[miksar]

And when it comes to casual gaming/waggle/kinect etc. That shit should be left on ps3 where it is affordable.

Sony should have never combated wii with ps3. They should have continued what they started with ps2.

Do you realize that PS2's biggest success was attracting new audience to console gaming, much like Wii did? It sold better than PS1, N64 and Saturn combined, and the only way to achieve it was to attract casuals. So in fact it was Wii and later Kinect that followed PS2. Not to mention that the only way for the next PS to be successful is to be casual-friendly, otherwise we will be having another Vita situation.

 

[RoboPlato]

The back touch thing will probably happen. Left analogue stick may change position too. Then again, can't see why they wouldn't have tried this already, if they wanted to.

After all the shit they got for the boomerang controller design I think they were just too afraid to go with something that was different in any way. I'm sure we'll see some changes in the DS4.

On the topic of control, something about the rumors we have seems like Sony is going to be focusing on limiting input lag. Stuff like the 60fps goal for internal studios (which I doubt will actually happen but I think Sony wants it to) seems like they really want to improve playability. Even if we get a lot of 30fps games if they're similar to something like Halo 4, 30fps 99% of the time with lower input lag than most 30fps games, I'll be very happy. Games like Halo 4 and the new NFS feel way more responsive than most 30fps games.

I had a interesting thought.

With rumours currently saying the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty identical under the hood outside of some variables like RAM and versions of the GPU I wonder what will happen to all the port houses that sprung up this generation? Will they be out of a job when porting between the two platforms is relatively painless?

Those Full HD remakes aren't going to make themselves

 

[JonathanPower]

I had a interesting thought.

With rumours currently saying the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty identical under the hood outside of some variables like RAM and versions of the GPU I wonder what will happen to all the port houses that sprung up this generation? Will they be out of a job when porting between the two platforms is relatively painless?

Well, their job will be much easier, but there will be still need of them. I think that a similar HW would greatly benefit the developer comunity, and it would lower the development cost.

 

[iceatcs]

I bought my son a Surface tablet for Christmas.

Poor your son.

Just kidding, I hope your son will enjoy it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Do you realize that PS2's biggest success was attracting new audience to console gaming, much like Wii did? It sold better than PS1, N64 and Saturn combined, and the only way to achieve it was to attract casuals. So in fact it was Wii and later Kinect that followed PS2. Not to mention that the only way for the next PS to be successful is to be casual-friendly, otherwise we will be having another Vita situation.

Having support for DVD is the only thing that Sony initially did to attract casuals to the PS2. They were pretty much laser locked onto the "core" market in terms of the games that they released early on. They really didn't start to make any serious moves toward casual gaming until late 03 when they released the Eyetoy. And even then that was really only for Europe. SCEI and SCEA stayed locked on that core market.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Where does this revisionist history come from that the PS2 dominated the 6th gen by being a casual machine that appealed to the expanded audience. And that the Wii is apparently a successor to this strategy.

Sony made some forays into EyeToys and SingStars, but the tremendous success the PS2 enjoyed was very much from traditional games. Among the market for traditional games there's obviously a spectrum from "casual" gamers to the more enthusiast gamer.

The Wii specifically targeted this expanded audience market to achieve its success.

If any system has been a successor to the PS2's strategy in the 7th gen it's been the 360.

 

[yurinka]

Tablet controller that connects to two nunchuck moves. Vita games can be downloaded to ps4 and streamed to tablet controller, helping improve vitas position.

Can't rely on something that's not packed in with every console

I'd include in the box:

-Splittable DS4 : since it would act as Move + nunchaku they wouldn't have additional manufactuting Move HW costs. 100% PS4 installbase ready for Move support to counter Kinect 2 since day one, without having to buy additional accesories. F2P waggle family mini games if the console is sold cheap signing a subscription (Patcher idea that I don't see but..). Just to add a couple of small bulbs (with a higher res PS Eye its size can be smaller) between the shoulder buttons, to include a magnetic compass and to make it splittable wouldnt increase too much its price : https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0DDHjUUE122RkNEUFZ4UmdnNlU

-Vita : thanks to the standalone Vita sales + PS4 boxed sales, Vita HW manufacturing cost would decrease faster. Would save extra R&D and manufacturing cost needed for new tablet controller with bigger screen. Due to its size, weight and ergonomics, would be easier to play all kind of games than with a bigger controller. Being sold too as a fully functional handheld that allows you tu play its own games everywhere they would get more revenue than with a PS4 only WiiU like tablet controller. This would really push Vita installbase, which would push Vita 3rd party support for Vita games, in addition to the typical 2nd screen stuff when connected to PS4. Cross buy, cross save, cross play, remote play etc now would make even more sense. Im the long run this extra revenue from extra Vita games sales and extra Vita HW sales would compensate the initial extra loss of including a Vita in the box. In the long run I think it would be cheaper and better for them than to create a new tablet controller.

Or at least they can do it with separate skus / bundles : PS4+Vita, PS4+DS4, PS4+DS4+Vita

 

[SpoonyBard]

I'd include in the box:
-Splittable DS4 : since it would act as Move + nunchaku they wouldn't have additional manufactuting Move costs and Move games would get more support being in the box. To add a couple of small bulbs (with a higher res PS Eye its size can be smaller) between the shoulder buttons : https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0DDHjUUE122RkNEUFZ4UmdnNlU
-Vita : thanks to the standalone sales + PS4 boxed sales Vita hw manufacturing cost would decrease faster. Being sold as a handheld too and having its own games people would buy it too as a separated buy so they would get more revenue than with a PS4 only WiiU like tablet controller. This would really push Vita installbase so would push Vita 3rd party support for Vita games, and to support all kinds of 2nd screen stuff when connected to PS4.

All this for only $799!

 

[Proxy]

I'd include in the box:
-Splittable DS4 : since it would act as Move + nunchaku they wouldn't have additional manufactuting Move costs and Move games would get more support being in the box. To add a couple of small bulbs (with a higher res PS Eye its size can be smaller) between the shoulder buttons : https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0DDHjUUE122RkNEUFZ4UmdnNlU
-Vita : thanks to the standalone sales + PS4 boxed sales Vita hw manufacturing cost would decrease faster. Being sold as a handheld too and having its own games people would buy it too as a separated buy so they would get more revenue than with a PS4 only WiiU like tablet controller. This would really push Vita installbase so would push Vita 3rd party support for Vita games, and to support all kinds of 2nd screen stuff when connected to PS4.

Are you trying to kill Sony?

 

[phosphor112]

SemiAccurate is reporting final designs for "Xbox 720" going to fabs.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506443

 

[shinra-bansho]

Out of curiosity, how often has SemiAccurate lived up to the second part of its name?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Where does this revisionist history come from that the PS2 dominated the 6th gen by being a casual machine that appealed to the expanded audience. And that the Wii is apparently a successor to this strategy.

Sony made some forays into EyeToys and SingStars, but the tremendous success the PS2 enjoyed was very much from traditional games. Among the market for traditional games there's obviously a spectrum from "casual" gamers to the more enthusiast gamer.

The Wii specifically targeted this expanded audience market to achieve its success.

If any system has been a successor to the PS2's strategy in the 7th gen it's been the 360.

I think Sony managed to snag the casual market with the PS2 because it was very close to the "one console future". You could pretty much buy a PS2 and you were set. Like always there were great games on other platforms, but the overwhelming majority of great games from that gen were on the PS2. And a good chunk of them were exclusive to that platform.

 

[Massa]

Out of curiosity, how often has SemiAccurate lived up to the second part of its name?

Not often. In fact, most of the stuff they post turn out to be false.

 

[DieH@rd]

Out of curiosity, how often has SemiAccurate lived up to the second part of its name?

They usually cover hardware with several conflicting articles...

 

[ekim]

SemiAccurate is reporting final designs for "Xbox 720" going to fabs.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506443

Oh come on... as I said in the thread about this news : they don't say that anything is going to be fabricated. They are just brainstorming around as they were told ín 2011 that December 31 2012 was the deadline.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They usually cover hardware with several conflicting articles...

Gotta cover those bases.

 

[i-Lo]

Any guesses on what kind of power consumption peak PS4 would be aiming for (1st gen PS3 peaked at 209W)?

 

[RoboPlato]

Any guesses on what kind of power consumption peak PS4 would be aiming for (1st gen PS3 peaked at 209W)?

My guess is around 200w max again. They'll probably be aiming for really low consumption during idling on top of that.

 

[systemfehler]

My guess is around 200w max again. They'll probably be aiming for really low consumption during idling on top of that.

I guess that will be right unless the case gets bigger, more money is spend on regular cooling (copper, fans, ...) or that Sandia cooler finally gets into production ;-)

 

[MWS Natural]

No its better for any game that does not use dpad.

Yeah, the Xbox controller is just better all around. It's about time for Sony to change their archaic controller.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Yeah, the Xbox controller is just better all around. It's about time for Sony to change their archaic controller.

I don't like the face buttons on the 360. I prefer the ones on the PS3 controller. Same with the d-pad. Sony has it nailed. Battery swap? Fine. Triggers? Fine, but I have had better use of the DS3 triggers. If they curved out instead of in, that'd be nice. Also, I like L1 R1 better on the DS3, but they could be longer like the LB RB on the 360 controller..

To each his own.

 

[Proelite]

With rumours currently saying the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty identical under the hood outside of some variables like RAM and versions of the GPU I wonder what will happen to all the port houses that sprung up this generation?

What rumours? I am pretty sure Orbis and Durango will be as different as 360 and ps3 are from each other, if not more so.

Sony is going 2.5, 3d stacking crazy.

Durango is pushing proven fab processes to the limit.

If there is any component in the consoles that are identical I'll eat my hat.

 

[aegies]

What rumours? I am pretty sure Orbis and Durango will be as different as 360 and ps3 are from each other, if not more so.

Sony is going 2.5, 3d stacking crazy.

Durango is pushing proven fab processes to the limit.

If there is any component in the consoles that are identical I'll eat my hat.

Even the development environment is considerably different, i.e., directx vs openGL derivative + sony proprietary SDKs.

 

[mrklaw]

Even the development environment is considerably different, i.e., directx vs openGL derivative + sony proprietary SDKs.

Tools were often quoted as one of the reasons PS3 was difficult to develop for compared to 360, but I think the situation now is much better, and hopefully Sony will take those lessons onboard and have decent tools support early on with PS4.


And even if they are pushing the technology with stacking etc, that should simply speed things up - it's not like introducing an esoteric new architecture like with CELL. And if PS3/720 have 8 lightweight CPU cores and/or GPGPU elements, it'll IMO benefit those developers that have learned to push the PS3 and CELL well.

 

[pharmboy044]

Even the development environment is considerably different, i.e., directx vs openGL derivative + sony proprietary SDKs.

I thought Sony was trying to go "off the shelf" for the PS4 so that it was cheaper and easier to develop for. If that's the case then what difference does it make that PS4 and 720 are not similar?

 

[phosphor112]

You know what I thought earlier?

CCP made a business proposition with Sony. Making a PS3 exclusive FPS that's tied to Eve Online and that is actively promoted by Sony.

This game is still in beta, by the time it's out of Beta, PS4 will be out.

My point is, if the PS4 did not have BC, they would be shafting 3rd party devs that are releasing late in the game. As much as people like to downplay BC, not everyone will keep their PS3 when they get the PS4.

I thought Sony was trying to go "off the shelf" for the PS4 so that it was cheaper and easier to develop for. If that's the case then what difference does it make that PS4 and 720 are not similar?

Both are x86 (meaning the cpu architecture is the same) but dev kits and API's will be different.

DirectX is proprietary for Microsoft, so Sony will naturally go OpenGL, an open standard. So while the hardware is "similar" everything else is different, but this is as close as they will likely ever get.

 

[phosphor112]

woops.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If the Vita is any indication apparently Sony has made huge strides in offering friendlier tools so I have less doubt on that front.

 

[mrklaw]

My point is, if the PS4 did not have BC, they would be shafting 3rd party devs that are releasing late in the game. As much as people like to downplay BC, not everyone will keep their PS3 when they get the PS4.

There are 70m(?) PS3s out there. How many Ps4s will sell initially? There will be plenty of PS3 owners to sell to after PS4 launches.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

huge mistake not to include bc. It really should be high on their priority list.

But since they have not shrunk the cell(right?). Im guessing its not happening.

 

[phosphor112]

There are 70m(?) PS3s out there. How many Ps4s will sell initially? There will be plenty of PS3 owners to sell to after PS4 launches.

And.. what about those people that DIDN'T have a PS3, got a PS4, and wanted a game for PS3? I'm sure CCP (and other companies) would like support to instantly drop.

 

[Sid]

huge mistake not to include bc. It really should be high on their priority list.

But since they have not shrunk the cell(right?). Im guessing its not happening.

Yeah it's not happening.

 

[mrklaw]

And.. what about those people that DIDN'T have a PS3, got a PS4, and wanted a game for PS3? I'm sure CCP (and other companies) would like support to instantly drop.

That would be a tiny number. There is a reason companies like rock star and game freak release on 'old' hardware - it's where the install base is.

Timing a big release right as you change generates is tricky, but you basically have to go for install base and potentially large sales or early adopters desperate for new stuff but potentially lower sales

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

am i the only one who would pay extra for a ps4 with an cell chip on it?

 

[pieatorium]

am i the only one who would pay extra for a ps4 with an cell chip on it?

Definately not but the number of people who would is probably not high enough for it to be worthwhile for sony to bother using up production making that sku

 

[jaosobno]

am i the only one who would pay extra for a ps4 with an cell chip on it?

Not the only one, but probably a minority. BC is a non-issue for most people (including me). After all, people buy next gen consoles to play next gen games.

Having a choice to play PS3 games is nice but if it raises console cost, not thx.

 

[thuway]

Not the only one, but probably a minority. BC is a non-issue for most people (including me). After all, people buy next gen consoles to play next gen games.

Having a choice to play PS3 games is nice but if it raises console cost, not thx.

Why do people keep saying this? The mark up on a BC PS4 would be less than 50 dollars to make, and Sony could charge $100 premium for it. I'm in.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Why do people keep saying this? The mark up on a BC PS4 would be less than 50 dollars to make, and Sony could charge $100 premium for it. I'm in.

ill take two.

 

[funkystudent]

am i the only one who would pay extra for a ps4 with an cell chip on it?

I would probably pay extra for a premium Cell equipped model even if I never played a single ps3 game on it.

It would just be nice knowing I could DL any of those PSN games I bought and play them.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

id pay 100 for full playstation bc.

Meaning:

disc bc:

ps1, ps2, ps3

d/l bc:

psp, psvita, psn.


ps4 should be able to handle all of them in emulation except ps3/psn cell games.

 

[pieatorium]

Why do people keep saying this? The mark up on a BC PS4 would be less than 50 dollars to make, and Sony could charge $100 premium for it. I'm in.

Not just about how much to make but whether there is enough demand to make it worthwhile to take production away from the other base model

 

[deadlast]

I'm looking forward to the next xbox controller. Not sure if the dpad will be better though.
http://www.google.com/patents/US201...a=X&ei=7HjlUJnlH-nV0QHs6YD4Cw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAQ

 

[thuway]

Not just about how much to make but whether there is enough demand to make it worthwhile to take production away from the other base model

Do you honestly not think a $100 premium device with all sorts of BC, a slightly larger HDD, and a wired headset wouldn't sell? C'mon son -_-

 

[SpoonyBard]

I'm looking forward to the next xbox controller. Not sure if the dpad will be better though.
http://www.google.com/patents/US201...a=X&ei=7HjlUJnlH-nV0QHs6YD4Cw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAQ

That patent doesn't look like something that is going to be used, at least not in that form. It doesn't make sense to add all that extra complexity just so you can switch analog stick and d-pad to different position. If there are more removable modules then maybe... But having a touchpad module instead of analog stick module doesn't sound very practical either.

 

[squidyj]

Why do people keep saying this? The mark up on a BC PS4 would be less than 50 dollars to make, and Sony could charge $100 premium for it. I'm in.

are you kidding?
you think they have room to bump up the machine 100 bucks?

If they have that kind of room before adding BC then they're making a console i'm never going to buy.

And yes, they will be judged by this SKU so it does matter how much it is as the top priced sku. it matters a lot.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

are you kidding?
you think they have room to bump up the machine 100 bucks?

If they have that kind of room before adding BC then they're making a console i'm never going to buy.

And yes, they will be judged by this SKU so it does matter how much it is as the top priced sku. it matters a lot.

was the vita judged by the 3g version?

 

[Respawn]

Yeah, the Xbox controller is just better all around. It's about time for Sony to change their archaic controller.

Nothing archaic about it so relax. There will be some kind of revision Im sure.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm looking forward to the next xbox controller. Not sure if the dpad will be better though.
http://www.google.com/patents/US201...a=X&ei=7HjlUJnlH-nV0QHs6YD4Cw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAQ

Interesting, but this seems to be by someone from MadCatz/Saitek