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[QisTopTier]

NOPE. Mr Wizard and the Cannon Brother have set an elaborate trap/lie in which these "donations" will end up in their wallet. They have to host EVO somehow and the suckers that paid for the "scholarship" did that for 2012. Now its a new gig and its this "donation" to "breast cancer". How do we even know the money will reach these breast? How do we know that Mr. Wizard isn't going to buy enough McRibs during the down season? How do we know the money isn't going to fund the next fake-netcode "GGPO" (garbage btw look at 3SO)? How do you think the Cannon brothers are so "well off" (according to many sources) that they could host EVO year after year at extravagant places like Las Vegas? The numbers just don't add up.

So many questions. The smash community has every right to question these shady practices.

LOL if Mr.Wizard buys all the McRibs I'm gonna have to ransack his storage.

Hope so. A donation drive at APEX for EVO could do really well.

The way I see the whole thing is, smash pretty much had the most votes seeing how it's not a standard evo game yet and the fans are REALLY VOCAL. I feel this whole thing is set up as a test to see if they are really ready to step up and play with others. It doesn't matter if fgc trolls say the game isn't a fighting game, hype ass moments are hype ass moments. But when the Smash comunity also says they don't really want to be part of the overall fgc and consider themselves special it just builds a lot of tension.

YO NON ESPORTS .... ESPORTS DRAMA

 

[Lost Fragment]

Goddammit. I hope the Smash community shapes up so they can save us from the pony scourge.

 

[Infinite]

No the debacle is the fact they want to say they are donating to get in but if they lose they want to withdrawl all donations meaning they didn't want to really donate in the first place.

If smash players want to donate to enter that's cool thats the point of the whole charity drive thing being done. But wanting to withdrawl at the sign of losing is just the sign of pure scumbagness and completely against the point of charity

I don't see what they are at fault for that still. They like many others are donating for their game of choice get in the lineup. If they don't feel its worth it they can still donate to breast cancer research any other charity and avoid this entirely.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

As I said, its either add Melee to EVO or

fuck Wizard fuck the Cannons fuck the FGC #YOLO #SWAG let them have their pony convention

it'll be hilarious either way

 

[QisTopTier]

I don't see what they are at fault for that still. They like many others are donating for their game of choice get in the lineup.

What everything is about is going woosh over your head isn't it -_-

They don't want to compete they want to be guaranteed in.

Anyways I'm done talking about the subject for now I want to tear up some shit in Anarchy Reigns

 

[xCobalt]

NOPE. Mr Wizard and the Cannon Brother have set an elaborate trap/lie in which these "donations" will end up in their wallet. They have to host EVO somehow and the suckers that paid for the "scholarship" did that for 2012. Now its a new gig and its this "donation" to "breast cancer". How do we even know the money will reach these breast? How do we know that Mr. Wizard isn't going to buy enough McRibs during the down season? How do we know the money isn't going to fund the next fake-netcode "GGPO" (garbage btw look at 3SO)? How do you think the Cannon brothers are so "well off" (according to many sources) that they could host EVO year after year at extravagant places like Las Vegas? The numbers just don't add up.

So many questions. The smash community has every right to question these shady practices.

Honestly can't tell if this is serious or not.

 

[Busaiku]

I donated for Guilty Gear.
Shame it's not getting in.

 

[notworksafe]

As I said, its either add Melee to EVO or

fuck Wizard fuck the Cannons fuck the FGC #YOLO #SWAG let them have their pony convention

it'll be hilarious either way

...or skullgirls

 

[Justin Timberlake]

They don't want to compete they want to be guaranteed in.

No.

They don't know if they can trust the sanctity of the competition (there is no $ counter. no transparency) or the end result of their efforts.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I think this is funnier then them just adding Melee to the lineup yesterday.

 

[FallingEdge]

studiotraffic

never forget

 

[Infinite]

What everything is about is going woosh over your head isn't it -_-

They don't want to compete they want to be guaranteed in.

I really do not care what happens. If they don't want to donate that's them. They can still donate to breast cancer or any other charity separate from doing this. Whatever.

 

["God's Beard!"]

He's actually skinny. But you'd know that if you played P4 instead of latching onto a game that's the closest Jojo has ever had to being relevant again. :3

I played all 4 Persona games, even Innocent Sin. Fat is a mindset.

 

[notworksafe]

No.

They don't know if they can trust the sanctity of the competition (there is no $ counter. no transparency) or the end result of their efforts.

No transparency? Everyone is donating directly to a charity. Do they expect the Cannons to lift the money and buy "Fuck Smash" shirts to hand out to all EVO attendees? If there was a pre-set idea of what game would be in, why make a whole competition and rig it? Wiz would have just announced the 8th game.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

No transparency? Everyone is donating directly to a charity. Do they expect the Cannons to lift the money and buy "Fuck Smash" shirts to hand out to all EVO attendees?

Yes I do.

And the government introduced crack to the urban communities too.

 

[Anth0ny]

1. Make multiple donation pools. Set one at APEX at the check-in counter. Another at Wintergamesfest. Organize a social media movement led by community leaders.

2. Win the donation drive. Hopefully Sony doesn't moneyhat and the bronies ignore the entire thing (unlikely).

I think you're overestimating the bronies. I can't imagine there are enough members of that community that are interested in the fighting game based on their favorite cartoon. You know as well as anyone how strong the Melee community is. If we wanted to get this game into Evo, and it was a money thing, we'd do it.

The wild card is if Sony/Nether Realm. If they money hat this shit with like $50k then there's nothing any community can do about it. Enjoy your 40 man tournaments at Evo.

3. Get a community representative onto the EVO staff.

Super, super important. Considering how many games are on the roster, I can't imagine Wizard/the Evo staff will be willing to tackle Smash themselves. They're going to want all the help they could get. I'm sure a respected Melee TO will be hired for the job.

4. Have that representative fight for the proper rulesets, schedule, budget, streams, logistics, etc. aka do as much work as it would otherwise take to run a major in itself, but without the final say.

Ruleset shouldn't be a problem.

I've asked Wizard on twitter if every game's top 8 would be on the main stream, he hasn't answered. Pretty sure every game's top 8 has been featured on the main stream in the history of Evo, no matter how boring or "low on the food chain" they are. More than likely, we'd get on the Saturday stream. About 50k viewers. Not too shabby.

5. Promote EVO among international smash circles. Get a few big names to confirm early. Get a lot of early registration so that the representative has more leeway. Create hype w/media and social networks. Invite FGC gamers to smash events leading up to EVO.

Also important, but I think if we actually get in the lineup, the big names will show their support.

6. Get a massive amount of registrants (If done properly, Melee ought to be 3rd in attendance. If done exceptionally, it can even eclipse SF IV). Use that to maybe get a prime time spot on Sunday.

Shouldn't be a problem if #5 is successful.

7. Host a gargantuan 3 day event without a hitch.

If fucking MK, Tekken and anime games can do it, I'm certain Melee can do it.

Thats a lot of things that have to go right. And some of it depends on a 3rd party that none of them know very well (EVO and its higher ups). So many are asking "is it worth it?", "will it even be a good event?", "wouldn't I rather just go to APEX/Genesis? a real smash tourney?", "will they treat us with respect", "are we really competing with My Little Pony? is that what we're worth to them?"

Like it or not, a lot of people are donating as much for Melee as for charity. And for those people those questions are running through their heads.

Evo did NOT have to include a player's choice game on the lineup. the fact that our 12 year old game has even a remote CHANCE of getting into Evo should be applauded. Evo doesn't owe Smash players anything. To throw this opportunity away would be stupid.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I donated for Guilty Gear.
Shame it's not getting in.

Right now a smash player is laughing that you're "wasting" your money since you didn't set up a way to back out on your donation.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

No transparency? Everyone is donating directly to a charity. Do they expect the Cannons to lift the money and buy "Fuck Smash" shirts to hand out to all EVO attendees?

No, I mean that there is no way of knowing how many total $$s were donated. So its impossible to know who is ahead/behind.

This means that it is possible for the EVO staff to pick a game other than Melee even if it wins. I don't like baseless accusations, and its unlikely there is actual foul play at work, but that possibility only furthers potential distrust.

 

[notworksafe]

No, I mean that there is no way of knowing how many total $$s were donated. So its impossible to know who is ahead/behind.

This means that it is possible for the EVO staff to pick a game other than Melee even if it wins. I don't like baseless accusations, and its unlikely there is actual foul play at work, but that possibility only furthers potential distrust.

Explain why this would be easier or make or sense than just picking an 8th game.

The point is that there were a ton of player communities that wanted their game in. This is the EVO Staff saying "You want your game in? Put your money where your mouth is". Makes sense to me.

Heck I donated already knowing that Skullgirls wouldn't win. But I think it's good to show support for my game of choice while helping a charity and getting a tax write off.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I'm donating 50 million samolians to Brawl.

 

[Heel]

No, I mean that there is no way of knowing how many total $$s were donated. So its impossible to know who is ahead/behind.

This means that it is possible for the EVO staff to pick a game other than Melee even if it wins. I don't like baseless accusations, and its unlikely there is actual foul play at work, but that possibility only furthers potential distrust.

Ever think that's to encourage donations instead of having people say "Look how far behind we are, we'll never win so why donate?"

Smash is facing the same hurdles as any other game on that list. They should nut up and donate to a good cause if they want to win instead of being scummy and conjuring up conspiracy theories.

So childish.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I donated for Guilty Gear.
Shame it's not getting in.

Speaking of series with an uphill battle to get into EVO...

 

[Conceited]

No, I mean that there is no way of knowing how many total $$s were donated. So its impossible to know who is ahead/behind.

This means that it is possible for the EVO staff to pick a game other than Melee even if it wins. I don't like baseless accusations, and its unlikely there is actual foul play at work, but that possibility only furthers potential distrust.

High-larious.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Ever think that's to encourage donations instead of having people say "Look how far behind we are, we'll never win so why donate?

I've done multiple fundraising drives and trust me when I say this is far from the truth. A $ counter always encourages donations. Similar to how a vote counter got the facebook poll roaring.

People think "ooh! we're only X amount behind! I should donate!" or "lets demolish the bronies and show the world our strength!" etc etc

The EVO staff may disagree with me on this point and the lack of transparency is entirely benign, but that line of reasoning does not match up with reality. $ counters are the heart of any successful fundraiser.

They should nut up and donate to a good cause if they want to win instead of being scummy and conjuring up conspiracy theories.

Its not a conspiracy theory to have doubts about EVO's commitment to smash.

 

[Busaiku]

I like that the Evo Donation Account is still "Send Osamu To Evo 2012".
They're not using the money for Breast Cancer research at all, but are developing a time machine.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Bum's trying to make a keepaway team. Using MODOK at the moment.

 

[Heel]

I've done multiple fundraising drives and trust me when I say this is far from the truth. A $ counter always encourages donations. Similar to how a vote counter got the facebook poll roaring.

People think "ooh! we're only X amount behind! I should donate!" or "lets demolish the bronies and show the world our strength!" etc etc

The EVO staff may disagree with me on this point and the lack of transparency is entirely benign, but that line of reasoning does not match up with reality. $ counters are the heart of any successful fundraiser.

Which is more likely: A difference in viewpoints on how to run a successful fundraiser, or a harebrained conspiracy theory that EVO is out to screw the Smash community? C'mon son.

 

[QisTopTier]

Bum's trying to make a keepaway team. Using MODOK at the moment.

Modok needs to be played more, with a low hitting assist even.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I hope Bum talks about this on his stream. Maybe they will listen to him.

Maybe.

 

[Ragingnight]

Modok needs to be played more, with a low hitting assist even.

how many low hitting assist are there?

X-23
Wesker

uhhh...there should be more lol

edit

Forgot She-hulk, phoenix wright

 

[Infinite]

Last thing I'll say on this is as someone who ran a Charity Club in college, where we held multiple donation drives for causes such as breast cancer and aids research, people need to know exactly where their money is going or else stuff like what we are seeing now is gonna be unavoidable. Transparency is key with these things.

how many low hitting assist are there?

X-23
Wesker

uhhh...there should be more lol

edit

Forgot She-hulk, phoenix wright

Felicia

 

[QisTopTier]

how many low hitting assist are there?

X-23
Wesker

uhhh...there should be more lol

edit

Forgot She-hulk, phoenix wright

Felicia

 

[Professor Beef]

Its not a conspiracy theory to have doubts about EVO's commitment to smash.

But it IS a conspiracy theory to think that Wizard and the Cannons would jeopardize more than a decade of work by being dishonest with charity funds.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Which is more likely: A difference in viewpoints on how to run a successful fundraiser, or a harebrained conspiracy theory that EVO is out to screw the Smash community? C'mon son.

To be clear: I am merely trying to convey the other side of the discussion. This thread completely mischaracterized the opposing argument. Smashers were being portrayed as stingy and unreasonably uncooperative. Someone even directly compared them to con artists.

I haven't quite made up my mind on the matter. I've stated I'll make a thread on smashboards when I do. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that my post will calm the issue, but if I write it well enough I'm sure it will make ripples. And maybe that ripple will form into a tide and then a wave, who knows.

My deliberation would be a lot easier if we got any sort of feedback though. A large part of my misgivings are that there hasn't been any contact from Mr Wizard or his staff reaching out to organizers and leaders in the community. I wonder if there is a genuine desire for cooperation.

 

[toddhunter]

Its not a conspiracy theory to have doubts about EVO's commitment to smash.

Name a game beyond AE and Marvel that EVO doesn't have commitment issues with.

Sfxt is a joke, MK is a joke, P4A is anime and dead, TTT2 sold like 4 copies and will take 5 days to complete and even the KOF community doesn't play KOF.

Despite all that, people will be there trying their best and having a go to showcase their game and skills. If it goes well, then maybe next year things will be even bigger and better.

There isn't something special about smash. If people donate it will get in. If it gets in, people may or may not show up. People there may or may not care and a lot of people will say "when's marvel?" on the stream trying to be oh so funny.

I can see where a community would like to know if Sony has dropped a million on PSASBR so they know if they have an actual chance, but of course that will have a negative effect on donations. But that is different to EVO being committed to a particular game. It is just an event after all and the alternative is no chance of seeing smash or any number of other games.

 

[enzo_gt]

Oh yeah I'm sure an event like evo would LOOOOOOOVE to get busted for something as stupid as that. Man that board reads like a shitty version of gamefaqs.

Do the pricks even know how donation drives work?

I mean, I know it could happen, but it's so unlikely considering the massive risk they're taking and putting their reputation and all of EVO on the line.

That said I would like MrWizard to clarify whether all proceeds will go to charity or not, or if they will be taking some to cover logistics. I don't think he mentioned that, and I believe it's important to disclose for transparency. I also believe that MrWizard just kind of announced this on a whim. He didn't even know how seeding would work or when the donation drive would even end, that's like the first stuff you'd figure out IMO.

But it IS a conspiracy theory to think that Wizard and the Cannons would jeopardize more than a decade of work by being dishonest with charity funds.

Bingo. Irrational fears I think they call them.

 

[Professor Beef]

My deliberation would be a lot easier if we got any sort of feedback though. A large part of my misgivings are that there hasn't been any contact from Mr Wizard or his staff reaching out to organizers and leaders in the community. I wonder if there is a genuine desire for cooperation.

There hasn't been direct cooperation and contact because Melee hasn't even been officially confirmed to be the 8th game.

 

[Busaiku]

That said I would like MrWizard to clarify whether all proceeds will go to charity or not, or if they will be taking some to cover logistics. I don't think he mentioned that, and I believe it's important to disclose for transparency. I also believe that MrWizard just kind of announced this on a whim. He didn't even know how seeding would work or when the donation drive would even end, that's like the first stuff you'd figure out IMO.

You may have noticed that there are only seven games in the list. To determine the 8th game, we’re holding a donation drive, with all proceeds going to the Breast Cancer Research Foundation.

.

 

[notworksafe]

To be clear: I am merely trying to convey the other side of the discussion. This thread completely mischaracterized the opposing argument. Smashers were being portrayed as stingy and unreasonably uncooperative. Someone even directly compared them to con artists.

I haven't quite made up my mind on the matter. I've stated I'll make a thread on smashboards when I do. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that my post will calm the issue, but if I write it well enough I'm sure it will make ripples. And maybe that ripple will form into a tide and then a wave, who knows.

My deliberation would be a lot easier if we got any sort of feedback though. A large part of my misgivings are that there hasn't been any contact from Mr Wizard or his staff reaching out to organizers and leaders in the community. I wonder if there is a genuine desire for cooperation.

Why not hit up Wiz/Cannons on Twitter, maybe set up a discussion over email? I imagine they wouldn't mind explaining some possible plans assuming that Smash does win. Just an idea

 

[Lost Fragment]

Yeah, I think the whole donation thing could definitely be handled better. But eh, I have faith that things will work out well in the end.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Donation drive ends at the end of the month.

 

[enzo_gt]

.

Props. I guess this is all gravy then.

Donation drive ends at the end of the month.

So SCR gets no seeding for the 8th game then?

 

[notworksafe]

So SCR gets no seeding for the 8th game then?

If MLP, Injustice, or BB wins no one gets seeding points.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

There hasn't been direct cooperation and contact because Melee hasn't even been officially confirmed to be the 8th game.

But this fundraiser is a direct result of Melee's success in the facebook poll. And frankly, if we're being honest with ourselves, its pretty clear that this entire effort was made with Smash in mind.

It wouldn't hurt to hear some reassurances from the staff. Tournaments are as much public relations as anything, and there is a reason why no tournament succeeds once the reputation of its host is tarnished.

Its unrealistic to think that the Smash community trusts a 3rd party (and thats what EVO is to them) more than their own people. If EVO did some outreach and pulled a major voice on their side, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

 

[notworksafe]

What reassurances do people want?

"Yes we'll actually pick the game the wins the donation drive" ?

I guess I don't get the reluctance at all.

 

[Busaiku]

If MLP, Injustice, or BB wins no one gets seeding points.

Technically not Guilty Gear either, since it's Accent Core +R.

 

["God's Beard!"]

But this fundraiser is a direct result of Melee's success in the facebook poll. And frankly, if we're being honest with ourselves, its pretty clear that this entire effort was made with Smash in mind.

It wouldn't hurt to hear some reassurances from the staff. Tournaments are as much public relations as anything, and there is a reason why no tournament succeeds once the reputation of its host is tarnished.

Its unrealistic to think that the Smash community trusts a 3rd party (and thats what EVO is to them) more than their own people. If EVO did some outreach and pulled a major voice on their side, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

This is a return to community choice games, not the "Let's see if people really want melee" poll.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Name a game beyond AE and Marvel that EVO doesn't have commitment issues with.

Sfxt is a joke, MK is a joke, P4A is anime and dead, TTT2 sold like 4 copies and will take 5 days to complete and even the KOF community doesn't play KOF.

Despite all that, people will be there trying their best and having a go to showcase their game and skills. If it goes well, then maybe next year things will be even bigger and better.

There isn't something special about smash. If people donate it will get in. If it gets in, people may or may not show up. People there may or may not care and a lot of people will say "when's marvel?" on the stream trying to be oh so funny.

I can see where a community would like to know if Sony has dropped a million on PSASBR so they know if they have an actual chance, but of course that will have a negative effect on donations. But that is different to EVO being committed to a particular game. It is just an event after all and the alternative is no chance of seeing smash or any number of other games.

And each and every one of those communities wrestle with these same issues. Its no surprise that Smash would do the same.

The difference is that Melee actually has a vibrant and populated scene so it doesn't need EVO. They're not dependant on it so the hand-wringing is a choice and not a necessity for survival.

 

[Professor Beef]

But this fundraiser is a direct result of Melee's success in the facebook poll. And frankly, if we're being honest with ourselves, its pretty clear that this entire effort was made with Smash in mind.

It wouldn't hurt to hear some reassurances from the staff. Tournaments are as much public relations as anything, and there is a reason why no tournament succeeds once the reputation of its host is tarnished.

Its unrealistic to think that the Smash community trusts a 3rd party (and thats what EVO is to them) more than their own people. If EVO did some outreach and pulled a major voice on their side, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

You know what's even more unrealistic? Thinking that this entire poll is a giant way to spite the Smash community.

 

[Skilletor]

But this fundraiser is a direct result of Melee's success in the facebook poll. And frankly, if we're being honest with ourselves, its pretty clear that this entire effort was made with Smash in mind.

It wouldn't hurt to hear some reassurances from the staff. Tournaments are as much public relations as anything, and there is a reason why no tournament succeeds once the reputation of its host is tarnished.

Its unrealistic to think that the Smash community trusts a 3rd party (and thats what EVO is to them) more than their own people. If EVO did some outreach and pulled a major voice on their side, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

Really? You think that? Seems awfully weird to believe they'd have a fundraiser with so many games and different communities only because of "Melee's success in the facebook poll."

Seems more likely that a bunch of different communities are clamoring for a spot and this is one of the fairest ways to achieve that.

If the Smash community feels as you do, they need to get over themselves.

And each and every one of those communities wrestle with these same issues. Its no surprise that Smash would do the same.

The difference is that Melee actually has a vibrant and populated scene so it doesn't need EVO. They're not dependant on it so the hand-wringing is a choice and not a necessity for survival.

Good. Then don't donate and let a community that wants to be at EVO get in.