if the GPU and CPU are both on the same APU, why would they have such different access to memory? Separate direct buses for CPU and GPU?
vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
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if the GPU and CPU are both on the same APU, why would they have such different access to memory? Separate direct buses for CPU and GPU?
512MB [4gbit] GDDR5 chips are supposedly entering mass production in Q1 2013. Those are the only options for easily reaching 4GB pool [8 chips].
How much GB/sec is connection between Vita SoC and its 128MB vram?
Source?
IDK man 4GB GDDR5 seems unlikely.
There are dual GPU's with 4GB GDDR5,if sony packs that much fast RAM in the PS4 i'll be surprised.
I like this thread.
It's like a jigsaw with multiple people working on it. Rigby takes one corner, thuway and vg leaks another, Sweetvar and sonys CTO helping out. Everyone else standing on the side trying to work out what the hell it's a picture of. Of course, Sony ninjas waiting to slap a C&D on the person who gets it right. Or laughing at how wrong we all are.
Smells like a console launch....
It's like a jigsaw with multiple people working on it. Rigby takes one corner, thuway and vg leaks another, Sweetvar and sonys CTO helping out. Everyone else standing on the side trying to work out what the hell it's a picture of. Of course, Sony ninjas waiting to slap a C&D on the person who gets it right. Or laughing at how wrong we all are.
Smells like a console launch....
Sorc3r3r
Member
Hydrargyrus
Member
More about 399$/
It should be the latter one.
So 399 of which currency: EUR or USD because - you know - it's not the same amount?
Mind you,that would be some unbelievable shit if this turns out to be true.Hynix has 4Gbit GDDR5 slated for Q1'2013 (page 19/20):
http://www.hynix.com/inc/pdfDownload.jsp?path=/datasheet/Databook/Databook_2Q'2012_ALL.pdf
All that it takes for that is eight 512MB chips... Modern GPU cards use a shitton of 256GB chips.
Shtof
Member
Well, it's always been like that.
Hydrargyrus
Member
In both. You know, in Europe we always pay more...
jeff_rigby
Banned
Just had a PM with truway and I believe he is likely correct as he knew things that haven't been discussed on line that jive with research I have done and haven't posted to this date.I agree. I think the devkits right now are using GDDR5, but if they can move to Wide IO it'll be for the best.
None of this is final. Final devkits will ship in the Summer. Do not look at this and expect everything to look 100% the same. Things can change either in a positive or a negative direction. Do not expect any major revisions (switching from a 8850 to a 8970), but expect things such as clock speeds to be tweaked until release. This is a giant balancing act.
Some good information has come down the grapevine that the VGleaks article was almost 100% correct and that Sony has upped RAM to 4 GB. It is 192 GB/S unified. Also the Durango specs have been leaked and apparently some mystery sauce is at work.
Through PM I was just told I am almost right. This is your Orbis folks
Dirtyshubb
Member
So its looking like a powerful console and should be roughly £400? I was day one anyway but its great to start getting some new info, was getting envious of the 360 fans getting all the hype goodness
Before Christmas i was perfectly happy with just my PS3 but since all the news has started coming out i am getting desperate for a new console, the hype is finally getting to me
Before Christmas i was perfectly happy with just my PS3 but since all the news has started coming out i am getting desperate for a new console, the hype is finally getting to me
Gemüsepizza
Member
Afaik US price is without taxes, European price with taxes included.
So its looking like a powerful console and should be roughly £400? I was day one anyway but its great to start getting some new info, was getting envious of the 360 fans getting all the hype goodness
Before Christmas i was perfectly happy with just my PS3 but since all the news has started coming out i am getting desperate for a new console, the hype is finally getting to me
I'd be surprised if it was £400. Didn't the PS3 launch at £425 and was ripped apart for it? I'm expecting between £300-400, but don't care either way - based on the last few years of PS3 output and barring a disaster I'll more than likely be day one regardless of price.
Dirtyshubb
Member
You could be right but I do think its time people (general consumers, not you) wake up and realise that these machines are tremendous value, you get a top of the line media player, games console ect that is going to be supported for around 10 years and for only £400!
Of course getting them to do that is the hard part but how some can spend money on ipads ect when they only plan to use it for email/internet yet will think a brand new console is a rip off at £400. Boggles my mind how the common man thinks, always seems either backwards or lacking in the ability to see the whole picture.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Should be cheaper than PS3 to production on launch. No heavy R&D investment this time. PS3 have Cell and Blu-ray development.
If I was Sony. Overprice on first day because there will be people will buy no matter. Then a price cut 6 months later. It will get maximum profit at launch term.
Price for the PS4 or Xbox3 will surely be an unknown until we know what else makes up the console package. Will they have a Gamepad style controller? Kinect 2 is surely part of the MS plan, but is there a Move 2.0 or something else? How about BC? Not happening, optional hardware add-on, or built into all SKUs? All these things will add to the BOM and to the market price, but are all unknowns. The only leaks have been about dev kit / console specs, with absolutely no information about other components or services that will make up the final product/platform.
systemfehler
Member
I thinks so: http://amddevcentral.com/afds/assets/presentations/1004_final.pdf
I don't see any other options to achieve that kind of bandwidth unless we go a very exotic route (XDR2, DDR4 in an insane and expensive configuration, ...)
eDRAM is faster than GDDR5 - depending on the variables (bus, clock, etc.). Xenos eDRAM was around ~250GB/s if I remember correctly - so it is not like the huge difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 but it is faster.
Shtof
Member
If I was Sony I would lower the price at launch as much possible to sell consoles and get a foot in. First year is crucial for long term success.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm hoping for £350 max. Looking at the Wii U Deluxe it is currently $368 at Amazon US, £300 UK and 330 Germany.
If that holds to the end of the year nearer £300 is possible?
That's a fair observation, although from my own perspective I bought a tablet (Samsung GTab 10.1 - roughly 350EUR, 1.5 years ago) not because it was cutting edge and "new", but exactly because it would allow me to read e-mail, browse the web and watch movies/youtube on a couch, in bed, while eating and ...on a toilet. All those things were technically possible with laptops, but somehow it never felt right - too clunky and unwieldy. So I actually paid for better convenience, even if the hardware itself doesn't offer anything new.
Now if new consoles will offer something that for average consumer is as valuable as the increased comfort offered by iPad/tablets, then they're going to sell. Let's just hope it's not 'gimmicks' like Move / Kinect / WiiU Pad, etc. - I don't mind having those as an option, but hope they won't be shoved up our throats...
So if we can expect 4GB of GDDR5 in PS4 and 8GB of DDR3 in the next XBox, which one has an advantage over the other, in terms of ram?
I'm just trying to understand, GDDR is way more fast than DDR3 but with DDR3 you can have more... So it's something like "We have less but we can move it faster" and "We have more but we move it slower", where performances/advantages are more or less the same?
But how much can we expect in the next Xbox? Like 100mb?
And, how fast is DDR3, generally?
I'm just trying to understand, GDDR is way more fast than DDR3 but with DDR3 you can have more... So it's something like "We have less but we can move it faster" and "We have more but we move it slower", where performances/advantages are more or less the same?
But how much can we expect in the next Xbox? Like 100mb?
And, how fast is DDR3, generally?
pieatorium
Member
Also software is where the most money is made which is why nintendo made so much when the DS and Wii were beasting, they were also the ones selling the most software on the platforms. The more systems sony sells the more software they sell to go along with it.
Do not make the mistake in thinking the DDR4 in the next Xbox will go unassisted. The machine is using highly custom parts to improve bandwith.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Hynix has 4Gbit GDDR5 slated for Q1'2013 (page 19/20):
http://www.hynix.com/inc/pdfDownload.jsp?path=/datasheet/Databook/Databook_2Q'2012_ALL.pdf
All that it takes for that is eight 512MB chips... Modern GPU cards use a shitton of 256GB chips.
I asked Alstrong a few months ago how much power GDDR5 used and he said Samsung's Green memory used 16.5W for 1GB of 4gbps.
Looking at that graph the slowest version is 5gbps......Do you have any idea how much power 4GB of that would use? 4GB of GDDR5 would be amazing but I worry it's unrealistic in a console.
There's no single answer, as it greatly depends on the type of game: for open world games, where you need to have a lot of things cached in memory Xbox might be better, while for quick-pacing games like corridor shooters fast GDDR5 can provide more stable and higher frame rates and most likely better effects (transparencies, particles, etc.)
DDR4? I thought they where going with DDR3...
Man, I can't keep up with rumors. :lol
But, how can you improve bandwith besides ultra-wide bus and similar? Or is that what you're referring at.
Glorified G
Member
How much of the 4GB of GDDR5 will go to the OS? It would really suck if only 75% of the ram went to games.
amstradcpc
Member
Yeah I was thinking of that.
But being able to read/write very fast should reduce things like pop-up in open world games anyway, right?
Because I don't really want to play GTA VI with pop-up like GTA IV. :lol
I hope they went with a minimalistic approach like XBM...
Man, I wish they could add 256/512 mb of cheap ram just for that.
Don't take it the wrong way thuway but it seems you've gone from a position of raving about Sony could push past the 2.5TF mark easily to now stating that 1.84TF may be the final figure and that all of sudden TF isn't the benchmark of performance we should be looking at. Sounds a lot like back-paddling and rationalizing. Of course, given it's custom nature and things like texture streaming to alleviate a lot of problems of RAM starved systems, it makes sense that TF figures aren't the only way to judging performance in a closed system.
If the rumours of 4GB GDDR5 come to fruition, I feel it to be a massive waste of resource fit an OS that could take north of 512MB on it. It looks like much like this gen, PS4 will hit its RAM limit sooner than XB3. Perhaps their inclusion of 4GB (and then adding OS on it) makes sense in 2013 but the third parties will inevitably bitch about it come 2016-17. I just hope some form clever streaming and buffering methods are devised to compensate for this.
If the rumours of 4GB GDDR5 come to fruition, I feel it to be a massive waste of resource fit an OS that could take north of 512MB on it. It looks like much like this gen, PS4 will hit its RAM limit sooner than XB3. Perhaps their inclusion of 4GB (and then adding OS on it) makes sense in 2013 but the third parties will inevitably bitch about it come 2016-17. I just hope some form clever streaming and buffering methods are devised to compensate for this.
There's lots of talk the last few pages as if there's been news...has there?
The VGLeaks thing is old. It IS the most substantial and most reasonable leak we had, but it's been there a long time.
Then we heard via VG247 that new dev kits had a lot more RAM (8GB or 16GB). And there was talk of a move away from Steamroller to Jaguar (I think just via forum whisperings here and elsewhere?)
Now Thuway is claiming it is 4GB GDDR5 in the final box. Is that the 'news' of the last few hours?
On that idea...I would congratulate Sony if they did bump to 4 while keeping it as GDDR5. When VG247's report came, I assumed the increase in RAM was a concession to size over speed, with a switch to regular DDR. I am a bit skeptical it's still GDDR5.
The VGLeaks thing is old. It IS the most substantial and most reasonable leak we had, but it's been there a long time.
Then we heard via VG247 that new dev kits had a lot more RAM (8GB or 16GB). And there was talk of a move away from Steamroller to Jaguar (I think just via forum whisperings here and elsewhere?)
Now Thuway is claiming it is 4GB GDDR5 in the final box. Is that the 'news' of the last few hours?
On that idea...I would congratulate Sony if they did bump to 4 while keeping it as GDDR5. When VG247's report came, I assumed the increase in RAM was a concession to size over speed, with a switch to regular DDR. I am a bit skeptical it's still GDDR5.
LightOfTruth
Member
Do we know anything about the controller?
Lots of obfuscation. You can paint it as intentional for the sake of non-disclosure -- but it's also a pretty convenient out, as well. It would be nice if before a major announcement/indisputable leak -- one of these guys would actually step up and given specific numbers and put their necks on the chopping block. I get that the tech is ever changing as kits are being finalized -- so I understand, for now.
This will be extremely disappointing if true. I wish we do not have Skyrim like situations with the PS4
systemfehler
Member
100mB seem rather high - it is more expensive and complex to fab than eSRAM but has a lot higher density. I am not an expert but I guess they will need at least as much space to fit a 1080p picture with (some?) effects into it. That is why sometimes the 360 used sub-HD resolution because a whole 720p picture would not fit into 10MB.
For your DDR3 question
C3-24000 DDR3 SDRAM has 24GB/s vs 48GB/s of GDDR5(sorry might have mixed up Gbit/s and GB/s some posts ahed). Of course those values differ depending on clock rate, bus, etc.
That was partially also the fault of the engine which was a real memory hog ...
We wont.