Chuck Norris
Banned
How much if a disadvantage is 4 GB going to be against 8 GB?
VGLeaks: Details multiple devkits evolution of Orbis
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying
Psychotext
Member
I can see this. Still, I want 1080p to be aimed for as much as possible and a 720p game would have to be doing a TON of super impressive stuff to be in line with my expectations next gen.
People need to stop looking at it like that.
Double that at 30fps then? 3x more than DDR3/Durango per frame at each frame rate (30fps/60fps) based on rumoured specs.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
If the bandwidth allows 3gb/s then wouldn't it be a good idea to reserve 1 gb for os, that way they can match most of the features Xbox will have.
Also what's the difference between unified ram where you're going to split a reserve anyways with ram made specifically for os and another batch just for gaming.
Also what's the difference between unified ram where you're going to split a reserve anyways with ram made specifically for os and another batch just for gaming.
SW1313 really has much better looking characters.
We are in for a ride this gen, its gonna be awesome.SW1313 really has much better looking characters.
Thankfully, yes it does.
H_Prestige
Banned
Other way around. Question is how much of a disadvantage MS will be at.
It makes it easier to adjust for framebuffer reserves, game data reserves and you can fluctuate numbers as needed by the current conditions. With a split pool you only have a set amount of VRAM and system RAM. Some games may need more of one or the other and a unified pool allows that to happen. It's just a lot more flexible.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
I see, thanks.
Hopefully we will get at least 4 gb. I forget who said final retail wont have that but we don't know if that means more ram or less.
because they are going for a 1080P 60FPS 3D standard.
Insane Metal
Member
LoL is it hw related or game related?
iamvin22
Industry Verified
ICE team input is all i care about from the west. but its also nice that other western devs have some input.
I hope they do not have an absolute enforcement like that.
I doubt it, especially given the 3D part. I think 1080p/60 will be relatively common within Sony's own first party studios with the exception of those who really push visuals (GG and ND) who will stick with 30. It absolutely won't be a certification requirement for third parties.
I dont thinks so, but they have built architecture that really supports such goals. Especially for studios that dont have funds to create games with uber HQ assets for 30fps Orbis games. Most of 3rd party will anyway aim for durango's [rumored] lower processing power. We shall see if Orbis will have enough juice to provide big boost.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
I hope someone can clarify something that may end all the ram wars. Lets say orbis has 8gb of ram with the same rumoured bandwidth. If only 3gb/s is used then does that mean the rest of the ram is useless? What happens to it other then OS?
It all depends on the power of the hardware. 1080p is a standard res in PC space and really should be for consoles too. If upping the res allows for lower AA settings that's a win all around. For example at 2560x1600 I don't even miss AA most of the time and 2xaa is all I ever need.
I think especially at launch we can expect 1080p to be the staple.
statham
Member
that is what scares me, are they going to push 3D hard in order to sell TVs? I could care less about 3D games.
The AA situation next gen should be nice if they're targeting 1080p. 2xMSAA combined with SMAA at 1080p will give great image quality without too much of a hit, especially since people sit further from TVs than PC monitors.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
To repeat the opinions of others in these threads: I'd be content with current gen quality running at native 1080p/60fps.
Even though I sucked at the reveangence demo I drool at the thought of it at native res and a little (more?) AA.
SW1313 really has much better looking characters.
Yes and SW1313 was also running on 3 GTX 680s.
Lol
I thought it was one 680? I think the only next gen demo running on 3 was Samaritan and it was knocked down to one eventually.
EDIT: I was wrong, it was three.
The Jason
Member
Yeah, GDDR5 is twice as fast as DDR3. Also Durango (apparently) uses more ram for the OS.
OK then, even Agni had better looking and moving characters. Happy?
It blows my mind at how low the processing power required for Agni was. 1080p/60fps with 8x MSAA and FXAA with those visuals and effects. Insane.
The majority of SW1313 focus was on bringing ILM's offline rendering techniques into realtime world. Those insane particle effects are to be blamed for rumored 3 gpu cards [i still cant belive in that
].Square focused on more simple ways to render stuff [some scenes had pre-baked lightning, relativley simple particle/cloth physics, etc] but they cranked asset quality high [to real unoptimized levels].
Then play the games in 2D. How does 3D hurt you if you aren't using it?
pharmboy044
Member
So have we come to a conclusion of what type of RAM the Orbis will have? Is it still GDDR5?
Ardenyal
Member
I wonder what kind of AA they used for this render and if using that in real time would require more bandwidth than just going with native 1080p+cheap AA..
There is a chance of WideIO stacked RAM chips on interposer. That would be infinitely cheaper on the long run, but the stacking tech is maybe not ready.
OK then, even Agni had better looking and moving characters. Happy?
On a single GTX 680.
Count me in.
oversitting
Banned
I actually have no problem with a good constant 30. And I game at 60 on PC the most. As long as there isn't too much variation in the frame times, its really hard to tell 30fps from 60.
I'm not sold on 60fps at the cost of better effects. A game running @40 with 1/3 better visuals is more appealing to me. As for the 60 thing.... it's up to the developers, I highly doubt Sony will tell them to do it all the time, even if it's because they can get 3D at 30.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I feel like a lot of people are pressing the assumption that a large bulk of it will go towards the OS. And secondly that MS won't close the bandwidth gap through other means such as esRAM.
Lets assume the vast majority of that RAM goes to games 3.5 GB in PS4, 7.5 GB in 360. Isn't Sony suddenly at a huge disadvantage?
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Why not?
It would depends on other factors at that point. A large RAM disparity didn't hurt them in the past. PS2's 32 + 4 MB versus the 64 MB the Xbox had.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I'm not talking about sales. PS2 was nowhere near Xbox in terms of hardware
specialguy
Banned
theoretically they can be, a fact a lot of people seem rushing to gloss over.
although after os reserves it should be 5gb to 3.5gb currently. still a very big difference comparable to the flops difference in favor of orbis. it would be the same ratio if 360 had 500mb this gen and ps3 only had 350.
yes, the ps4 ram is more capable, but i'm not convinced there wont be a difference. once the ps4 is done with it's 3.5gb it can only get more from the (order of magnitude slower) disk, while durango can obviously use 5gb before needing to hit disk. and the slowest ram is still going to destroy either a blu ray disk or hard drive.
That was almost the case at launch.
FlutterPuffs
Member
So Orbis can theoretically do 3 GBs per frame. What about Durango, with its 8GB DDR3 RAM (with potentially minimum 1GB for OS)?
Tried to do the maths myself but how the shit do you count this kind of thing.
Tried to do the maths myself but how the shit do you count this kind of thing.
specialguy
Banned
closer to 1gb per frame at 60. it's easy to figure just divide the gb/s by 60.
68gb/s/60fps=1.13 gb/frame (ignoring the ESRAM)
176 gb/s/60=2.95gb/frame
most games are going to be 30 though imo. so it's more like 6 per frame for ps4 and 2 for durango.
pcostabel
Gold Member
At 68 GB/s about 1GB per frame at 60 and 2 GB at 30.
Around 1 GB.
I think this 3GB or 1GB per frame is getting a bit out of context. Some people assume that one frame will contain an entirely different set of information that than the next and will run out memory, which, logically is improbable. Only parts of it will be in continual shift and fluctuation per cycle and this is where streaming comes in. Ergo, bandwidth is truly the kind. Even MS knows that all too well and went with the ES RAM. High bandwidth helps with AA, alpha effects, reduction in LoD etc.
it's not 3GB/s it's 3GB a frame at 60FPS & no the extra ram wouldn't be useless because it could be used for faster loading times or you can keep data in the memory so you wouldn't have to see any loading screens.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Hypothetically couldn't Microsoft even the playing field or improve their stance by switching to the same type of ram as the orbis?