Again, how would this solve anything? It's too late to start working on a new console now as they'd launch after Sony and Microsoft. The only chance they had was launching before, and even if they were at parity, we've seen in the past that this doesn't work for them. They're at parity right now and they're still not getting any games.
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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Again, how would this solve anything? It's too late to start working on a new console now as they'd launch after Sony and Microsoft. The only chance they had was launching before, and even if they were at parity, we've seen in the past that this doesn't work for them. They're at parity right now and they're still not getting any games.
This is what i criticize the most of the wiiu, they've used an incredibly expensive and useless (it was obvious that i wasn't going to be as big as the wiimote, everybody knew that even before release) gimmick that took a lot of power from the console... if they would've found a cheaper gimmick the console would've been a lot better.
There's not a whole lot that can be done about that. Consequently, it shouldn't affect their decision process. It's just something that they have to weather.
And get slaughtered again like the N64 and GC?
thestopsign
Member
How likely is it that Nintendo misses this goal?
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think the idea that better hardware performance is the panacea to Nintendo's problems is pretty poor thinking.
There really isn't much correlation in videogame history of hardware power and success. There's actually way more evidence to the contrary.
Not to mention that this is all extra money Nintendo needs to spend (not just on the hardware, but on game development).
There really isn't much correlation in videogame history of hardware power and success. There's actually way more evidence to the contrary.
Not to mention that this is all extra money Nintendo needs to spend (not just on the hardware, but on game development).
This is likely at the core of their problems. It's great that things are going well for them in Japan but like said Japan makes up a smaller part of the market. North America and Europe aren't looked at as being as important and I think it's obvious to see that based on their decisions. It really needs to stop or things will just get worse for them. Not saying they need to put the west but like said they need to design with a more global outlook. Factor in the differences between Japan, NA, and Europe..
In terms of games being released worldwide so other regions aren't waiting can someone answer something please. Is there any reason at all that localization (especially since Nintendo has internal employees that do this) can't be done over the course of a game's development? With it's cost being factored into the game's budget from the start? That way games release simultaneously in all major regions. Especially for Nintendo who knows damn well their games are what cause people to buy their hardware and the lagging localization and lack of games are what is hurting non-Japan sales.
Fucking this. It's like people forget the HUGE droughts both systems had, the complete LACK of 3rd party support (Especially the N64) they had, and most of all, the lack of SUCCESS when compared to their competitors. Lots of people are so focused on POWER POWER POWER they forget the huge amount of problems those systems had. And with more competition than ever, a loss leading power hungry system is most likely the riskiest thing they could do ATM. And even assuming they brought out a system on par with the others, 3rd party support wouldn't magically come, like it didn't before. People just want Nintendo to be what they want them to be, rather than what they need to be to remain as competitive as possible.
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
Pokemon Snap 2. We could use the gamepad as a camera. It would be amazing. I would buy a wii u just for that. Would sell millions. Iwata would stay, Everyone would be happy, achieve world peace and find a cure for cancer.
Not to mention that if a generation goes wrong for Sony/MS due to spending too much money, they can bury the losses within their other massive divisions, while Nintendo really sticks their neck out if they adopt Sony/MS's strategy of going balls out throwing money everywhere.
Well, to play devils advocate one could argue that there were other reasons as to why third parties avoided both consoles. E.g cartridges, mini-dvds, kiddy appearance, etc. I don't disagree with the two of you though.
I am surprised on how people fail to understand that now third party are a much bigger deal than the past... nowadays since those big games are big risks for third party companies (unlike the past) these want nothing more than another machine to cheaply port the games... if you have a highly different console that would cost more money to make those game instead of make them more profitable.
True. I'm a huge fan of the Gamecube but I remember what it was like having to go through massive software droughts and missing out on a lot of key third party titles. Also the marketing for the system was a joke. Nintendo didn't have any direction back then. I couldn't tell what demographic they we're after with the GCN. The thing looked like a Fisher Price toy.
you can say this as much as you want but it seems to be concept some choose to ignore
ShockingAlberto
Member
And the Gamecube was far and away Nintendo's worst selling home console and took a loss at two significant times in its history and was publicly announced to be halting production during the generation.
You know what competitive graphics got Nintendo? The worst version of most third party games (one notable case was Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, where Ubisoft shuttered a single programmer in to a room and had him port the entire game himself) and a lot of their big exclusives ported to weaker hardware before the GC versions even came out.
The Wii U has problems extending far beyond its graphical capability and hitching their wagon to their most embarrassing system from a sales perspective probably isn't going to fix that. It's yearning for a childhood ideal without actually paying attention to the reality of the situation.
Maybe they should have beefed up the tech, but pining for the Gamecube and N64 days is essentially saying "Yeah, it didn't work out before, but if you try again I probably won't care but someone might."
They should have released Wii 2 instead of Wii U, advanced motion controls and ditch the screen. 3DS didn't end up how they wanted it to but I don't blame them, it was an exciting idea at the time but it never caught on. You win some you lose some.
Getting rid of Iwata however would be an extremely bad idea. In the gaming industry you are going to fall, it's unavoidable. They had enough success with the Wii and DS to last them several generations. The expectations have grown way too much. If he needs to go then it should be at the end of the Wii U generation. I doubt people are calling on Iwata to go. He needs to stop apologizing and just man up. Yamauchi would never have acted like this.
Getting rid of Iwata however would be an extremely bad idea. In the gaming industry you are going to fall, it's unavoidable. They had enough success with the Wii and DS to last them several generations. The expectations have grown way too much. If he needs to go then it should be at the end of the Wii U generation. I doubt people are calling on Iwata to go. He needs to stop apologizing and just man up. Yamauchi would never have acted like this.
Yeah i totally think that too, they have obviously jumped on conclusions.
The bigger issue that needs to be addressed with the Wii U is the lack of real marketing. They still have not differentiated the difference between the Wii and the Wii U so the general public is probably left out in the dark, not knowing it's an entirely different console. I'm sure most of you have already dealt with this and have you anecdotal stories to share. I haven't seen a Wii U commercial in a long time either, so I'm not sure what's happening at NoA right now.
I'm just shocked that Nintendo don't release games that potentially could expand 3DS user base, even just a little bit. There is a niche that probably would buy a 3DS to play games like Project x Zone, Bravely Default, etc..
thank you for saying it better than i could have
ShockingAlberto
Member
If they don't think it will sell on a Nintendo system, they won't port it.
Oh, I know, there was quite a few problems, some are and always have been bullshit though. Kiddy? It's a damn GAME console. Mini-DVD's? The lack of storage than DVD's have compared to Blu-Ray really bit MS in the ass. Not that I'm directing this at you.
CambriaRising
Member
Seems excessive. Dude already took a massive pay cut over the 3ds fiasco.
grimshawish
Banned
I do find it funny thay people think Nintendo should do EXACTLY the same as the coompetition.
As if SEGA were never squeezed out the market.
And like it would bring great benefit to the gamer.
As if SEGA were never squeezed out the market.
And like it would bring great benefit to the gamer.
Graphics weren't what got them slaughtered , it was crappy carts and low capacity disks that made porting the big PS2 games impossible.
ShockingAlberto
Member
what
Ignoring for a second that Project X Zone is coming, also ignoring that Bravely Default is a Square-Enix title, the conference in which this thread is about had Iwata saying specifically that Nintendo is going to start helping publishers localize 3DS titles for America because they are so reluctant to do so.
grimshawish
Banned
Search gaf for project x zone and order a 3ds.
ShockingAlberto
Member
There is a long leap of logic between 1.4GB discs and publishers putting as little effort in to ports as possible.
Oh, I know, there was quite a few problems, some are and always have been bullshit though. Kiddy? It's a damn GAME console. Mini-DVD's? The lack of storage than DVD's have compared to Blu-Ray really bit MS in the ass. Not that I'm directing this at you.
It's all perception that third parties had of gamers at those times. I wasn't on message boards before the GCN, but during the GCN generation there were plenty of gamers online who made fun of my purple little cube
I'm sure that had a lot to do with how third parties treated the console more than the other issues it potentially had.
InsaneZero
Member
That niche is one of the most likely to already own handhelds however. They'd need something high quality but more divergent to expand, and to sell that properly. Niche Japanese games are, well, the best reason to own handhelds beyond first party titles (and exceeding those I think on Sony's systems.)
I'd only be happy to see him resign at the time design decisions are starting to be made about their next machine. I am NOT a fan of such extreme low balling on the capability front in order to keep it cheap and more importantly low power usage. Basically I want someone who sees the other parts of the industry and whilst they don't follow it, the stay in touch with it enough to capture that market better and garner support from those that work there.
Whilst as we know, software can overcome almost anything bad about a system, I think they did the wrong thing with Wii by staying with old architecture. I was OK with it being SD and cheap but he did not have the foresight to look where the industry was going and see the difficulties wrt tools and engines. Bad.
Wii U may very well be the same, I don't know.
In the end he's the one that's been in charge during their first (and maybe second) full year loss since entering gaming. As an investor in Nintendo I'm not overly happy with his performance.
Whilst as we know, software can overcome almost anything bad about a system, I think they did the wrong thing with Wii by staying with old architecture. I was OK with it being SD and cheap but he did not have the foresight to look where the industry was going and see the difficulties wrt tools and engines. Bad.
Wii U may very well be the same, I don't know.
In the end he's the one that's been in charge during their first (and maybe second) full year loss since entering gaming. As an investor in Nintendo I'm not overly happy with his performance.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
I think it will. The main reason why 3rd parties are iffy with Nintendo is because they've created this entire separate market from the other two companies where 3rd party games can't sell. They've abandoned high end graphics for small improvements and casual stuff. If they go back to what they once were, gamers, like me, will have no problem buying a Nintendo console again. I'll have Super Mario in 1080p with real next gen quality, Call Of Duty, and many other 3rd paty games all on one console.
Why can't they do both? You can still do your casual thing and have a high end system.
MisterHero
Super Member
Gamecube had a handle, and it was fucking fancy
Wii U has no handles. It can't handle the situation!
Wii U has no handles. It can't handle the situation!
Azure Dream
Member
Is that a controller for my existing Iwata?
In all seriousness, I don't want to see him go. And if Reggie's leadership isn't a problem (and I personally think people give him too little credit over his decision-making power), then at the least he isn't contributing anything toward their success in America, and the view of him as a PR figurehead has soured.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Satoru Iwata is irreplaceable as company CEO and President. Nintendo just doesn't have anyone internally with his resume, charisma, experience, and communication skills. The man has also been the hardest working person at the company wearing a suit and tie. The company has a glaring weakness at falling behind in regards to global market share because they think that the formula that works domestically will often result into success internationally. It seems that hardware wise; in their homeland, they can almost release anything that despite any deficiency will be saved as long as certain key franchises are released at opportune moments. The Wii and DS might have been exceptions to the rule because of their hardware novelty and expanded audience focus, but generally it seems that a cutting edge and ubiquitous platform is they key to a dominant Western market share.
Nintendo has Western developers making first-party games (Retro Studios, NST, Monster Games, Headstrong Games, Next-Level Games, etc.), but the problem is that Nintendo still delegates their projects to “Japanese-esque” recreations of past Nintendo titles. What good is having Western developers if they are developing the same brand of titles as the Japanese development studios?
The company would probably benefit from having a unitarian source or development director coordinate first-party projects across the board, balancing the different markets and consumer demographics. I’m not sure if Iwata does that single handedly right now, but it isn’t working.
Japan 3DS hardware and software are doing well domestically, but internationally they are just keeping afloat. The Wii U hardware and software are struggling. Ultimately, the company stock is continually plummeting.
Nintendo has Western developers making first-party games (Retro Studios, NST, Monster Games, Headstrong Games, Next-Level Games, etc.), but the problem is that Nintendo still delegates their projects to “Japanese-esque” recreations of past Nintendo titles. What good is having Western developers if they are developing the same brand of titles as the Japanese development studios?
The company would probably benefit from having a unitarian source or development director coordinate first-party projects across the board, balancing the different markets and consumer demographics. I’m not sure if Iwata does that single handedly right now, but it isn’t working.
Japan 3DS hardware and software are doing well domestically, but internationally they are just keeping afloat. The Wii U hardware and software are struggling. Ultimately, the company stock is continually plummeting.
ShockingAlberto
Member
You really think the entire beef between Nintendo and third parties is just down to hardware?
If wishing made it fucking so.
InsaneZero
Member
Because the Gamecube has already demonstrated that this line of thinking is wrong, wrong, wrong.
In my opinion the GameCube would of been one of the best consoles ever made if it had better third party support (It did have better third party support than N64 that's for sure).
It also didn't help that the Game Cube shortly came out after 9/11 and ruined any momentum its launch had going for it. PS2 was already established at this point.
Vampirolol
Member
They are just late. E3 2011 was empty, E3 2012 had 3 games (Wiiports and NLand), the Console feels so much rushed (OS, games..). So I think they are late even on the marketing, they are probably waiting to give a "character" to the whole thing then make a "second launch" (like 3DSXL + Mario wich didn't even work).
Azure Dream
Member
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I do not think it is right to make Iwata resign. Though he has launched two floundering consoles that have caused Nintendo much trouble he did handle the monstrous success of the Wii and DS right?
I think Nintendo is in a real tight spot with the 3DS not doing so well in the West and the WiiU flopping.
That being said from an investors view:
I think Nintendo is in a real tight spot with the 3DS not doing so well in the West and the WiiU flopping.
That being said from an investors view:
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think about the problem with the Wii U and I don't see third parties or hardware. I see a network effect.
Nintendo put a lot of work into the online side this gen, but it's still not as good as PSN or XBL. But that's not really it either. The problem was that they didn't adequately "lock" people in last generation. People had fun with Wii Sports and Wii Fit and made a Mii and then put it into the closet forever and got an iPhone.
What if something closer to Wii Universe was out on Wii? And Nintendo messaged people about the Wii U for months? We all know Sony and MS will be posting lots of stuff about Orbis/Durango on PSN/XBL.
This is how stuff is sold these days, and Nintendo completely missed the boat, and not even because of the decisions they made today. It was decisions they made years ago. That old adage about how it costs way more to make a customer than keep one is biting them in the butt.
Nintendo put a lot of work into the online side this gen, but it's still not as good as PSN or XBL. But that's not really it either. The problem was that they didn't adequately "lock" people in last generation. People had fun with Wii Sports and Wii Fit and made a Mii and then put it into the closet forever and got an iPhone.
What if something closer to Wii Universe was out on Wii? And Nintendo messaged people about the Wii U for months? We all know Sony and MS will be posting lots of stuff about Orbis/Durango on PSN/XBL.
This is how stuff is sold these days, and Nintendo completely missed the boat, and not even because of the decisions they made today. It was decisions they made years ago. That old adage about how it costs way more to make a customer than keep one is biting them in the butt.
I'm sure they've discussed it and looked at this plan of action, but it might not be right for them. It's not guaranteed that they will get third party support back. Hell, the Wii U is struggling to get ports of 360/PS3 titles right now and it's more close to them than it is to the PS4 and 720 in terms of graphical capabilities. I don't think it's a risk they're willing to explore at the moment. As much as I would love Mario on a high end machine, I don't see it helping them at all.
They had so much time between E3 2011 and 2012 to fix the issues they've been dealing with. My main concern was that their ads don't differentiate between the Wii and the Wii U to the regular Joes out there who aren't following the industry. It's anecdotal but I hear people mention it's a peripheral all the time, which is really annoying.
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