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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
It's damning how true this is.
Iwata, we believe in you. You don't need luck, cause luck is for people who need it. Leave luck to Heaven.
If this so-called beef is down to shit that went down 30 years ago, then that's kinda sad. Times have changed, the market has changed, and Nintendo as a company and their policies have dramatically changed.
If it's down to demographics? Okay. Otherwise, wow.
If only all these people bought gamecubes. The way people talk is as if the Gamecube was the golden era for nintendo. I had a Gamecube and I loved it but I remember the droughts as well waiting months for games.
It really isnt as simple as nintensdo releasing a beast of a console and watch the 3rd parties flock to it.
Fourth Storm
Member
Power isn't the only answer, but it's one of them. Nintendo's problems on N64 and Gamecube were in no way due to those consoles being overpowered. They were due to glaring mistakes which are now pretty clear in hindsight.
-small storage media
-Elitist attitude toward devs (Dream Team)
-Quirky console design (in Cube's case)
-Refusing to jump into online business early on, resulting in gimped versions of 3rd party titles for Gamecube (no online play in sports titles) and a Nintendo which is still today very behind in online infrastructure.
I generally agree with your assessment and I don't think Iwata is going anywhere unless he himself finds this too stressful and wants to leave. Yamauchi and a few other investors are the only people who could force him out, really only Yamauchi could force him out.
Sure it does. The last time they were truly at parity was in the SNES era, and that worked out pretty well.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. But do I believe in this?
It's a shame that NAMCO have to bring Project X Zone to US (because the game is developed by Monolith). Also, I know that Bravely Default is a SE title, but Nintendo should be pressioning /helping them since the development started. Fire Emblem will launch just now, almost a year after the japanese launch. Animal Crossing shouldn't be so hard to localize it either, but we don't have a date.
Professor Layton have games unreleased in the US too, Monster Hunter also will launch more than a year after the Japan release (ok, I understand that Wii U version is coming and they will release it together, probably to optime marketing costs).
Even with all that said, we can't ignore the mess that NoA was during the Wii era. Fatal Frame 2/4, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Reginleiv, Disaster, Another Code:R, Captain Rainbow (ok, I understand that game would be quite... polemic)... =(
Most Japanese developers probably still have hard feelings for Nintendo since the Yamauchi era. I remember Yamauchi saying things like only nerds played RPGs and saying stuff like ,"we'll never let Square publish games for us again". Iwata is a cool guy but i think companies are still hesitant to work with Nintendo again. Their console infrastructure still sucks also in regards to online.
grimshawish
Banned
Its a falsehood created by people who believed the anti-hype of 3DS collapsing. Nintendo cut the price, software was already on its way. It was scheduled.
I think thats a bit harsh. Iwata has been good leadership for Nintendo. Like Gaf-sales age can be also CEO's and shareholders can be shortsighted and only look at sales numbers and forecasts per quarter. You need leadership that has forethought to think ahead of that and is able to react quickly and appropriately. They did that with 3DS and it was a mistake for Nintendo to think they could catch the lightning in the bottle with casuals again with Wii U. Nintendo is in a tough position that trying to carve out their own part of the gaming industry and its going to be bumpy but I think Iwata is their best bet for that.
Hard to say about third party support, but I think there definitely would have been a lot more Wii U hype and sales if it were a "true" next-gen machine.
It wouldn't even have needed top of the line components, just something that presented a clear leap over the PS3/360. Give people their first taste of next-gen and get them excited.
Right now it seems like Nintendo has sort of wasted their head start.
Wrong. like i said if it's cheap enough to make they'll port it... those games cost multiple millions of dollars they have to take those money back no matter how and you know what will happen? They make games -> people will start to buy it -> they'll continue to make games -> people will not see anymore Nintendo as a third tier player -> people will buy games -> until something stupid happens third party will always continue to do software for nintendo machines
Seriously this is the breaking point to acquire the third parties and a better look in the industry as a whole but of course because the past has been different (even if there were different variables which is the important part) they will not do it because they are scared but you know... no risks, no gain. People tend to look to much in the past sometimes.
Lord_Byron28
Member
GAF: Quit introducing new ideas and do what everyone else is doing Nintendo!
as ive always said Nintendos greatest strength and weakness is them doing their own thing ignoring the competition. It brings a lot of fun and different ideas to the table but at the same time they ignore trends such as CD/DVDs, HD or online gaming. Which also alienates them from a lot of the gaming industry.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think it's a mistake to assume that it would be automatic that they'd win over third parties that way, but I also think it's a mistake to ignore that tech concerns may be precluding interest. Maybe they would have ignored Nintendo's console anyway citing "only Nintendo software sells," but I think it's certainly clear at this point that nobody outside of Ubi perhaps seems particularly excited about the possibilities of the GamePad. Perhaps more expensive, better looking AAA games won't pan out, but good money is riding on the fact that third parties are more interested in that route. And if they're not? The existing userbase of the 360/PS3/PC will probably continue to be your priority, just as it has been for the last six years.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
It could be that hardware power is primarily useful when getting a new platform off the ground and gaining some initial momentum. The tech head, and enthusiast customer, is attracted to shiny gadgets and advanced technology. You can get some front-loaded sales (as measured against the total lifetime of the product) by putting a beefy piece of tech out there. Despite all the mockery, a lot of people did buy a PS3 at $599 before it had any worthwhile games, because they had the money to throw around.
The trick, is that so far what makes anything mainstream isn't raw power or technology for its own sake. Long term success and a platform blowing up always seems to come back down to finding a killer application. And as has been shown time and again, the average customer doesn't care about the same things enthusiasts do. For this past generation, Call of Duty players don't care if COD looks "bad" as many enthusiasts of first-person shooters claim. COD runs great, the military environments and characters look reasonably good, and it has the content and gameplay the masses want.
Powerful hardware keeps the enthusiast happy as high tech games will regularly appear on a power-packed platform. But power traditionally hasn't been the deciding factor in the success of most gaming devices. However, technological advances that aren't necessarily related to CPU and GPU power in the abstract, can be critical. Obvious examples in recent years involve smartphones and tablets. They still don't possess the raw power for gaming of a console or PC. But their success is enabled by the technology to miniaturize components and decently powerful processing to make their form factor possible.
Generally, Nintendo themselves seems to approach technology in this way. Looking for a way to use technology as a whole - not just focusing on a linear progression of existing technology - to open up the market for new ideas. (This is regardless of whether any particular initiative succeeds.) I would wager that with the position they find themselves in, their perspective is that competing for an increasingly thin slice of the power pie would probably be futile and a losing game. So they turn their focus more onto what else technology might be able to accomplish besides increased processing power.
This doesn't sit well (as we can see) with a lot of people, who want Nintendo to create a "generic" game box with what is considered competitive hardware for enthusiast game customers in 2012/13.
Iwata isn't a marketing man or professional executive vagabond who was hired to run a company he doesn't really care about outside his paycheck. Given his history as an engineer and designer and involvement with creating products, I would suspect he actually does care about the company and what they do. He might prefer to go down with the ship rather than take a golden parachute and punch out, self-satisfied he profited in the end.
So for better or worse, the man may be taking it all kind of personally. Which makes it a bit sad when people write him into their personal narratives of Nintendo being stupid and mean just to piss off fanboys.
I really don't. The Xbox had better third party support than the GameCube but sold only 2M more consoles LTD. A lot of it has to do with the unusual circumstance of the PS2.
I know that the game will be released in US (and I will buy it!), but for how long we didn't knew if that would happen? And why Nintendo isn't publishing, since it's a Monolith game? Why take so long to make an announcement?
And I already have a 3DS, I bought it in April 2011, because I really like Nintendo and know that their systems will always have some killer app for me. I also have a Wii U and I really believe that sometime it will have good sales an recieve good games.
But I think NoA should be faster and bolder. Even the re-release of Pikmin 2 was not released until last year, and we don't even know WHY.
And I even didn't mentioned MOTHER 2 on VIrtual Console U (SHAME ON YOU) or Mother 3 at all.
Nintendo has changed A LOT, they used to be very hard on third party's if anyone remembers, they had the 10 NES Code with the NES and that's this chip that forced every third party company to release only 5 games a year on the NES.
They also didn't allow blood in their games until the N64, and there are even more stuff they did.
Nintendo is much more third party friendly these days, but it's not going to be easy to go back to the golden days of SNES third party support.
Edit: I was wrong, Mortal Kombat II on SNES had blood...
They also didn't allow blood in their games until the N64, and there are even more stuff they did.
Nintendo is much more third party friendly these days, but it's not going to be easy to go back to the golden days of SNES third party support.
Edit: I was wrong, Mortal Kombat II on SNES had blood...
DownWithTheShip
Member
That's what I like about the Japanese. They take pride in their work, take pay cuts, and will even leave a job if they're not satisfied with their own performance.
So many people would milk their company for every cent, and then expect huge compensation when they leave the job they're terrible at.
So many people would milk their company for every cent, and then expect huge compensation when they leave the job they're terrible at.
Building a powerful console or getting major third party support is just not a very realistic option right now. Though I do agree that they went overboard with the controller for Wii U and could have made the rest of the hardware better. They should have just built an improved wii remote and maybe bundled a classic controller along with it. The real solution lies in expanding first party development and building third party partnerships.
Fourth Storm
Member
Mortal Kombat II SNES says hello!
Crash Station
Member
Now why can't Wada take a hint from this guy?
Of course Iwata is a better president than he'll ever be.
Of course Iwata is a better president than he'll ever be.
Because that would mean getting into a graphics' arms race that they simply can't win (and Nintendo has tried this before), mostly because it has become a zero sum game. Like it or not, they have to be savvy enough to rely on looking different in the market... it's is the only way that stand out in an increasingly crowded market.
I think that it's ironic that most seem to want to gloss over the fact that Microsoft has come to the same conclusion. From most of the rumours and a few things over the way that Mircosoft has positioned the X360... the next-gen narrative for them seems to be to try and keep costs under control while making money for once (something that most overlook is the fact that Mircosoft as never really made money with the Xbox division). I don't think you are going to have a system that is capable in the same manner than the 360 was, and it would seems that the focus would have to shift to things that target "the casual market"... like Kinect.
If you are expecting different... you might have a rude awakening once the vale is lifted on this "720".
Not really. That's the excuse Nintendo use to justify their low specs nowadays but it's bullshit. Cube was marketed bad, looked silly, used small discs when PS2 had a DVD player, and suffered from Nintendos insular dogmatic attitudes like the gens before. Oh and released 18 months later.
It was yet again Nintendo not quite 'getting it'. I love their philosophy of making a machine with a unique selling point and not just going 'faster' all the time, but they do it with total disdain and neglect of technology employed by their competitors in the industry. There is a balance that I think they don't see.
MisterHero
Super Member
10NES was made sure every game was officially licensed. Companies found ways around the 5 games limit. Konami had Ultra Games, for example.
A lot of blame from NES-N64 went to their licensing fees but that was dropping even during GC.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Why does this logic not apply to Wii U? There are a lot of major PS360 titles still in development but the majority of 3rd party developers refuse to port it over to wii u even though developers such as visceral games said it took 2 weeks to port over to wii u. The controller isn't an excuse as all they have to do is put a map on the 2nd screen.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Should it come to the point where he steps down, do you honestly think it would be entirely self-motivated and not because of prompting from stakeholders?
NoA is really going to have to up its game to effectively compete. Whether that means more independence from NCL or a more aggressive strategy from the board, it has to happen. As it stands NoA is rapidly becoming the flooded section of the ship.
It would be sad to see Iwata go because he's brilliant, albeit hamstrung by the entirely conservative board. They remind me of the fuckin Bears ownership. Grumble.
It would be sad to see Iwata go because he's brilliant, albeit hamstrung by the entirely conservative board. They remind me of the fuckin Bears ownership. Grumble.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Shockingalberto,
I agree with you in that the n64/GameCube were not the great times people remember. However I also think the those systems were gimped in one way or the other the same way the wii and wii u. Even then Nintendo skimped on features they could have easily added.
DVD playback was a huge deal in 2001! N64 had cartridges. I think people just want a Nintendo to release a system that's at least on the same playing field as other systems and let the games do the talking. Without the gamepad they could have a more powerful system for the same price, easier ports, and more buzz due to the tech.
Of course some would say "what would make them different from Sony/ms?" Same thing that has always separated Nintendo from the rest. Tha games! Get all your major ip's at launch, have a working system os and the Wii u would launch would have been fantastic.
I agree with you in that the n64/GameCube were not the great times people remember. However I also think the those systems were gimped in one way or the other the same way the wii and wii u. Even then Nintendo skimped on features they could have easily added.
DVD playback was a huge deal in 2001! N64 had cartridges. I think people just want a Nintendo to release a system that's at least on the same playing field as other systems and let the games do the talking. Without the gamepad they could have a more powerful system for the same price, easier ports, and more buzz due to the tech.
Of course some would say "what would make them different from Sony/ms?" Same thing that has always separated Nintendo from the rest. Tha games! Get all your major ip's at launch, have a working system os and the Wii u would launch would have been fantastic.
Yeah but if the GameCube had at least on par with Xbox support + the exclusives it would of been amazing.
Ah, forgot about that. Will update my post.
Mortal Kombat 2 on the snes had blood
majortom1981
Member
Nintendos problem is not the hardware its the games. If Nintendo released a consoles 10x more powerful then the rumoured orbis and Durango they would still have the same problems. Its nintendos first hd console. They need to learn how to program for hd. That's probably why they are showing very little in the way of first party games.
I think Nintendo is in a great position. When the other two consoles are announced at $400 or $500 dollars, Nintendo drops the price to $250 released a Zelda title or something at the same time and they will be good. I think people on these boards tend to overreact.
I think Nintendo is in a great position. When the other two consoles are announced at $400 or $500 dollars, Nintendo drops the price to $250 released a Zelda title or something at the same time and they will be good. I think people on these boards tend to overreact.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It is a lot of things, up to and including:
- Yes, hardware.
- Yes, demographics.
- Production schedules and fees. You generally have to go through Nintendo for manufacturing and the queues can be maddening for a third party. Let's say you're, I don't know, Tecmo-Koei. You release Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper with a small production run and, because of some weird confluence of circumstances, it ends up being this HUGE seller. People are talking about it on the internet, CNN is doing stories about it, Ellen is playing it with Justin Bieber on national TV. Your problem now is, to get a new printing, you have to wait in the queue for Nintendo to print Black Ops II, Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, etc. You're not big enough for an emergency exception and suddenly all your popularity is waning because you can't fulfill the supply. (Though Tecmo-Koei, at this point, probably could get an emergency exception from Nintendo.)
- The Nintendo Software Paradox. Nintendo systems sell based on Nintendo games. Nintendo also wants third parties to further sell Nintendo hardware and bring licensing fees back to them. Third parties don't want to put games on the system where they have to compete for dollars with Nintendo games, which everyone buys Nintendo systems for. If Nintendo stopped making Nintendo games, Nintendo hardware wouldn't sell, and third parties would not put games on the system. To put it another way, what was the big third party game for the 3DS in winter of 2011? There was none, because up until that point, there was no big Nintendo game, and at that point, there were two huge Nintendo games and no room for anything else. Third parties are only now finding some room on the system and there's still basically none in the west.
- There is bad blood. Some third parties just don't work well with Nintendo and Nintendo doesn't work well with a lot of third parties. There's clearly something non-public going on between EA and Nintendo and it only harms Nintendo. EA can live a happy life making billions of dollars if Nintendo did not exist (and Peter Moore seems to think that would be a good result, regardless). What does Nintendo gain from not appeasing EA? There was a leaked memo a while back of the minutes of a meeting between Sega and Sony where Sony was bending all sorts of admittedly stupid rules to aid Sega in bringing over games like Yakuza. Sony is a contortionist for third parties, Nintendo isn't. Microsoft raised the price of Live, a move that's the basic equivalent of tapping on a bubble, to give Activision a cut. Nintendo wouldn't do that.
If they made a tech-competitive systems, all these problems don't just go away.
I love the Wii U controller, I love off tv play, so everyone blaming the gamepad is making me sad.
My dream controller coming from the Wii was a nunchuck/wiimote merged into a controller(one for each hand), but I understand how confusing this would have been to most people.
The Wii U design isn't just about cost either. Look how small it is even compared to the slim versions of ps3/360.
My dream controller coming from the Wii was a nunchuck/wiimote merged into a controller(one for each hand), but I understand how confusing this would have been to most people.
The Wii U design isn't just about cost either. Look how small it is even compared to the slim versions of ps3/360.
MisterHero
Super Member
The pad is actually already a compromise. Any lower resolution would make several gaming ideas impossible to implement (especially off-TV gaming).
Oh, god. I've never played these games (Europe) and just want to know so badly how they are. All this talk on NeoGAF about them is driving me crazy!
Seven years into this gen, almost anyone interested in the new GTA, Crysis, Tomb Raider etc. already owns a PS360 or a PC.
Why would anyone buy the Wii U version? There is absolutely no incentive to do so.
An impressive graphical upgrade would be a good reason to choose the Wii U version over the PS360 one, but Wii U isn't able to offer that. Truth is, when it comes to core games, Wii U feels like a machine that is 7 years late to the party.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Because Namco-Bandai has part ownership of Monolithsoft (the team that made PXZ is, if I recall correctly, the same team that makes the SRW:OG games that Namco has also historically published and also Namco x Capcom which Namco also published and did not come over here) and Namco published the game originally in Japan, too.
It probably took a long time to make an announcement because no one thought the game would come here. NxC didn't and the cast of characters is mostly full of Japanese favorites and no one like, say, Sonic.
InsaneZero
Member
They can't drop the price that easily since Iwata promised increased profit. A price drop is a action for increasing marketshare at the expense of revenue.
Nintendo going 3rd Party confirmed.
Lord_Byron28
Member
In Japan it is currently selling DS levels of crazy.
In the west, its selling closer to the GBA. However that could change once animal crossing, pokemon and more localized titles hit.
DownWithTheShip
Member
I'm sure that would be part of it, but the Japanese seem to be more easily embarrassed when they don't do well at their jobs.
I'm basing this off many stories i've heard, so I don't really have much to back it up.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Well, every shareholder has different goals. Some want long-term growth, some want short-term results. I imagine most of the people who got in Nintendo in the late 2000's for the quick money have jumped ship by now.
Well, the question is - is Iwata creating long-term (intrinsic) value for shareholders? I'm not so sure - it could go either way. If he's not, then he should go.
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