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[Spirit Icana]

I am no Anal-yst. But perhaps if Nintendo had more 1st party available games on WiiU at launch it would be better.

Seriously in the coming months all I know it's releasing is Rayman [not 1st party but at least exclusive] in month and Pikmin3 (when is ready)

It sounds to me like the plan was to have all these Nintendo/Nintendo funded games to be ready for launch or shortly after (Jan, Feb, March). Some are getting delayed like Pikmin 3 and others are crashing and burning like that Sing Party game.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I just want to know what they're doing with NST. They hired a bunch of guys supposedly, but they've been in limbo for years too.

Crosswords+

Seriously...
NST should be tasked with doing smaller-scale titles from established franchises. Or at least some higher budget eShop games.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Iwata seems like a gambling man. He's putting it all on the line. I think he can do it so I'm not worried.

Yeah they have Pokemon coming out, Zelda, possibly both Mario Kart and 3D Mario in the second half of the year alongside smaller scale projects. If he doesn't reach the goal, they have bigger problems than him stepping down, lol.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Okay, but if the Wii was on par with the other consoles they couldn't have released it at $250 and it never would have taken off like it did. Then we'd get the same excuses about the controller being different, and it still wouldn't have gotten the same level of support.

Not necessarily on par, but at least capable of handling shaders and HD graphics. Wii's life would probably be longer.

 

[Xellos]

Also, so many of you live in these bubbles. Nintendo cannot just go around spending all this money on studios and IP and securing so many exclusives. It's really bad ROI for them.

The truth of the matter is, their fanbase just doesn't support it. And they know this.
You can bitch on forums all you want, but these games just don't sell. You have to look at the return third parties get for their efforts, and even non-traditional first party games struggle to find sales. Games are expensive. Start buying before you start condemning, and you'll get more

You are right that it would be a bad ROI initially, but it could benefit them in them in the future. If Nintendo caters only to existing Nintendo fans then their audience will continue to shrink.

 

[JordanN]

Well, there's Lego City Stories coming this March. It's an exclusive too..

Lego is not a replacement for GTA.

I still say that even if Wii U was the most powerful console ever made, 3rd party developers would make excuse that people bought a Nintendo console to only buy Nintendo games and they would not put anything on it. It's the lack and bad relations with the 3rd party that drained the support not the power. If the power was important, the N64 and the GameCube would have a better faith.

It's these posts that miss the point.

Rather than complain about developers making excuses, HOW ABOUT WE REMOVE ONE IN THE PROCESS?

I rather hear a dev just bitch about the controller rather than bitch at both the controller AND THE SPECS.

 

[superpickleman]

We hardly knew ye Iwata.

I'll miss you.

 

[TalesOfWin]

Would be sad indeed cause he's iconic, but Nintendo has no direction lately... Not sure Iwata is responsible for that anyway.

That's because back in the days Nintendos consoles didnt just rely on Mario, Mario Kart, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and more Mario. The NES and SNES had a huge diversity of genres and games.

 

[bidaum]

- The Nintendo Software Paradox. Nintendo systems sell based on Nintendo games. Nintendo also wants third parties to further sell Nintendo hardware and bring licensing fees back to them. Third parties don't want to put games on the system where they have to compete for dollars with Nintendo games, which everyone buys Nintendo systems for. If Nintendo stopped making Nintendo games, Nintendo hardware wouldn't sell, and third parties would not put games on the system. To put it another way, what was the big third party game for the 3DS in winter of 2011? There was none, because up until that point, there was no big Nintendo game, and at that point, there were two huge Nintendo games and no room for anything else. Third parties are only now finding some room on the system and there's still basically none in the west.

I thought, since the Wii came out, that 3rd party's didn't develop for Nintendo because the hardware was not on par with the other big 2, and the control scheme wasn't analogous... I don't think big publishers like Activision are afraid of competing with Nintendo 1st party games, as much as they don't want to spend resources developing a nerf'd version with a wonky control scheme.

 

[Spieler Eins]

It's these posts that miss the point.

Rather than complain about developers making excuses, HOW ABOUT WE REMOVE ONE IN THE PROCESS?

I rather hear a dev just bitch about the controller rather than bitch at both the controller AND THE SPECS.

And you don't seem to realize that these excuses are a farce, they just don't wanna admit that they don't think this seemingly incomprehensible Nintendo fanbase will buy their games and ports cost money too. It doesn't matter what Nintendo does with their console, 3rd parties will never come back full force.

 

[bidaum]

And you don't seem to realize that these excuses are a farce, they just don't wanna admit that they don't think this seemingly incomprehensible Nintendo fanbase will buy their games and ports cost money too. It doesn't matter what Nintendo does with their console, 3rd parties will never come back full force.

I think if Nintendo released a console with comparable specs and just a dual stick controller, you'd see way more cross platform titles.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It sounds to me like the plan was to have all these Nintendo/Nintendo funded games to be ready for launch or shortly after (Jan, Feb, March). Some are getting delayed like Pikmin 3 and others are crashing and burning like that Sing Party game.

Sing Party should have been a pre-installed (free) app with a few available songs from the start. You could pay to play everything else.

Or they could have gone the PS+ route. Unlimited use of the Sing app, 30¢ for most Virtual Console content, 10% off DD purchases and other stuff too for $40-$50 a year. (Basic online stuff still being free of course.)

 

[Kai Dracon]

Lego is not a replacement for GTA.


It's these posts that miss the point.

Rather than complain about developers making excuses, HOW ABOUT WE REMOVE ONE IN THE PROCESS?

I rather hear a dev just bitch about the controller rather than bitch at both the controller AND THE SPECS.

Removing barriers is a valid point.

I think there's just varying degrees of cynicism depending on who you talk to.

Some think if Nintendo made equal hardware to everyone else, most 3rd party problems would disappear.

Others think power is irrelevant.

What you have to wonder is where the truth in the middle actually lays. Imagine Nintendo turning a "CPU SPEC" dial up gradually, stepping closer to 3rd parties hopefully, as the 3rd parties step back with shit eating grins on their faces.

It could be that Wii U's spec range was settled on as a gamble that it would be high enough to prevent more 3rd parties from moving the goal posts, and they'd finally try to work with it a little more.

That's because back in the days Nintendos consoles didnt just rely on Mario, Mario Kart, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and more Mario. The NES and SNES had a huge diversity of genres and games.

The NES had a huge variety of genres and games, because there were no established killer apps and hits. It was an an experiment to see what stuck.

The SNES immediately narrowed things down - the biggest SNES games were all Mario branded, one big Zelda, and Mario-related spin-offs like Donkey Kong Country. While the SNES created a few other games like StarFox and F-Zero, most of those games never became big. They were definitely fan favorites though.

Nintendo still makes a huge diversity of games. They just finished giving Fire Emblem the biggest push the series has ever had, especially in the west. They made a variety of games for the Wii, they've published a variety of games for the 3DS in the eshop.

The real key, IMO, is that they haven't made a huge push for a brand new, AAA-class IP aimed at the "core" Nintendo fan, at retail, since Pikmin. For the Wii, their big new pillar games were titles like Wii Sports Resort.

It's too early yet to tell what's going to happen for Wii U. Just what entirely new IP, on the AAA level, they are working on (be it what Retro's working on, or something else).

 

[Spieler Eins]

I think if Nintendo released a console with comparable specs and just a dual stick controller, you'd see way more cross platform titles.

Yet PS2/Xbox only was still far more common than PS2/Xbox/GCN. Or GCN ports being the worst of the bunch.

 

[timetokill]

Where's timetokill? His stories of how hostile the Western development community is towards Nintendo are eye-opening.

Heh, I'm surprised you remembered!

That was pre-Wii days, too, back when Nintendo was coming off the (according to some posters here) "third-party-friendly" GameCube. Even at the first reveal of the Wii, before any specs were known, everybody at the company I was at was shitting on it in an unprecedented way. I heard constantly that Nintendo was "exiting the console business" with the Wii and that PS4 winning was a "foregone conclusion."

You have to also realize that a great number of GameCube ports weren't handled by the actual team developing the game -- hell, they weren't even in the same studio. They'd be outsourced to other studios to do that port in particular. This was the case for many Activision, EA, etc. titles. They simply didn't have GameCube developers at the locations I was at. Didn't have GameCubes set up anywhere. Studios like Eurocom and such were picking up the slack.

This is a large part of why I find it so hilarious when people suggest, with a straight face no less, that the Wii was a mistake and the GameCube was the right way to go.

Anyway, based on what I've heard recently, things haven't really gotten much better with developers.

 

[Somnid]

Guys you don't have to make stuff up for the sake of your argument. Just think a little about what you want to say:

You are right that it would be a bad ROI initially, but it could benefit them in them in the future. If Nintendo caters only to existing Nintendo fans then their audience will continue to shrink.

The implication of this quotes is that they don't do that. On the contrary they've been shown to bring in more people than Sony or Microsoft (perhaps combined). What you you were probably thinking was that they didn't specifically target the dudebro market.

That's because back in the days Nintendos consoles didnt just rely on Mario, Mario Kart, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and more Mario. The NES and SNES had a huge diversity of genres and gam.

They relied mostly on 3 of those, the 4th was added later. What you were probably thinking is they had better 3rd party support.

 

[bidaum]

Yet PS2/Xbox only was still far more common than PS2/Xbox/GCN.

Developers, development tools, and developer resources have all matured a great deal in the past few years, and I think you see a lot more cross platform now than you did back then. I just don't see publishers, someone like Kotick for example, walking away from an easy port because of system bias.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Iwata is a very likable guy, and I truly hope to see him turn things around, but it's time he acknowledge one fact:

He has damaged the Mario brand at its very core.

The most critical error in this regard was launching NSMB2 and NSMBU so close to one another. Individual thoughts on the series' design may vary, but at the very least it represents the old proverb of too much of a good thing.

NSMBU was not the right title to launch with Wii U. It did not offer a compelling enough reason when an also new, fully-portable, cheaper version lie only a few shelves over. Wii U needed a Twilight Princess to complement its Wii Sports. The only explanation I have for this close proximity is that the 3DS title was rushed out the door in desperation, and Nintendo did not having anything else ready that would carry the same impact for either system.

This next bit might be blasphemy, but I think he's being too easy on Sakurai. Kid Ikarus was what wowed people at the initial 3DS unveiling - it should have been ready for that first holiday season. Now, Smash Bros will be shown in mere "screenshots" at E3 while 3D Mario and Mario Kart will be playable on the show floor. Why does Sakurai get all the time in the world to polish his games when other equally important franchises are rushed out the door?

 

[Shaanyboi]

Eh... they'll do fine. Even with the next consoles, they have software this year that is GOING to sell a metric fuck-ton of systems for them. Even if mainly on the 3DS side (Pokemon/Monster Hunter 4)

 

[Spieler Eins]

Developers, development tools, and developer resources have all matured a great deal in the past few years, and I think you see a lot more cross platform now than you did back then. I just don't see publishers, someone like Kotick for example, walking away from an easy port because of system bias.

Well, Call of Duty even came out on the Wii regurarely, so Activision isn't the best measuring example.

 

[thefro]

You are right that it would be a bad ROI initially, but it could benefit them in them in the future. If Nintendo caters only to existing Nintendo fans then their audience will continue to shrink.

Right, they're basically just targeting kids, Nintendo fans, casual gamers, and core gamers in Japan, when they could have it all and try to sell games to core gamers in the West as well. That's what Sony & Microsoft try to do (although Microsoft has pretty much abandoned Japan, but they tried for a while).

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Heh, I'm surprised you remembered!

That was pre-Wii days, too, back when Nintendo was coming off the (according to some posters here) "third-party-friendly" GameCube. Even at the first reveal of the Wii, before any specs were known, everybody at the company I was at was shitting on it in an unprecedented way. I heard constantly that Nintendo was "exiting the console business" with the Wii and that PS4 winning was a "foregone conclusion."

You have to also realize that a great number of GameCube ports weren't handled by the actual team developing the game -- hell, they weren't even in the same studio. They'd be outsourced to other studios to do that port in particular. This was the case for many Activision, EA, etc. titles. They simply didn't have GameCube developers at the locations I was at. Didn't have GameCubes set up anywhere. Studios like Eurocom and such were picking up the slack.

This is a large part of why I find it so hilarious when people suggest, with a straight face no less, that the Wii was a mistake and the GameCube was the right way to go.

Anyway, based on what I've heard recently, things haven't really gotten much better with developers.

Guess this explains on why some games for GCN were cancelled for no valid reasons and some of their previous installations sold a considerable amount of copies to build an userbase for the next one and still, they never came out.

I always raise this third-parties's grudge-holding scenario against Nintendo and hearing stuff like this just enforce what I've been saying. This should be exposed with considerable publicity and reveal the truth behind third-parties and Nintendo.

 

[lamaroo]

I think if Nintendo released a console with comparable specs and just a dual stick controller, you'd see way more cross platform titles.

Looks at the Wii U, looks at the list of third party games...

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I don't know if they ever had a chance at courting third parties or not with a more powerful machine. My gut instinct is that -- provided sales were decent (i.e. better than what we're currently seeing with multi-platform ports) -- removing barriers to entry would have facilitated more enthusiasm then we're currently seeing now and going forward. But of course, that's neither here nor there. For better or worse, the machine is what it is. The bigger concern to me going forward is not whether or not the machine can secure a Call of Duty 2013 port, but in trying to sell people on what the GamePad brings to the table.

Personally, I think they've done a terrible job thus far. And they put all of their eggs in that basket. They're selling a console right now at a loss at $350 that doesn't even compare all that favorably to hardware from 7 years ago, and the whole reason for that is because you're supposed to see the GamePad as a meaningful innovation much like the Wiimote changed everything over six years ago. I'm not convinced that this particular gamble has paid off at all.

 

[bidaum]

Well, Call of Duty even came out on the Wii regurarely, so Activision isn't the best measuring example.

I grant you it probably isn't, but I doubt the Call of Duty audience got a comparable experience (I haven't played it so I don't know that for sure). If I was some 3rd party developer out on my own though, I can target 3 platforms (I'm including the PC). All platforms have comparable specs (PC meets or exceeds in most cases) and controls, or Nintendo with different controls and way lower specs. True, you can also schism your development and try for full cross platform, but it's a lot of little hurdles and potential pitfalls.

 

[farnham]

Heh, I'm surprised you remembered!

That was pre-Wii days, too, back when Nintendo was coming off the (according to some posters here) "third-party-friendly" GameCube. Even at the first reveal of the Wii, before any specs were known, everybody at the company I was at was shitting on it in an unprecedented way. I heard constantly that Nintendo was "exiting the console business" with the Wii and that PS4 winning was a "foregone conclusion."

You have to also realize that a great number of GameCube ports weren't handled by the actual team developing the game -- hell, they weren't even in the same studio. They'd be outsourced to other studios to do that port in particular. This was the case for many Activision, EA, etc. titles. They simply didn't have GameCube developers at the locations I was at. Didn't have GameCubes set up anywhere. Studios like Eurocom and such were picking up the slack.

This is a large part of why I find it so hilarious when people suggest, with a straight face no less, that the Wii was a mistake and the GameCube was the right way to go.

Anyway, based on what I've heard recently, things haven't really gotten much better with developers.

the exact reason why i think M&A is the way to go for them. too bad that they have missed the boat on eidos, thq, midway etc in a big way.

sure western devs may be shitting at nintendo but i guess some of those guys would have sticked if nintendo was their new employer..(or is this too optimistic)

I grant you it probably isn't, but I doubt the Call of Duty audience got a comparable experience (I haven't played it so I don't know that for sure). If I was some 3rd party developer out on my own though, I can target 3 platforms (I'm including the PC). All platforms have comparable specs (PC meets or exceeds in most cases) and controls, or Nintendo with different controls and way lower specs. True, you can also schism your development and try for full cross platform, but it's a lot of little hurdles and potential pitfalls.

CoD on wii was actually pretty good. i always bought the wii version due to the pointer aiming

treyarch did a great job

 

[MisterHero]

Iwata is a very likable guy, and I truly hope to see him turn things around, but it's time he acknowledge one fact:

He has damaged the Mario brand at its very core.

The most critical error in this regard was launching NSMB2 and NSMBU so close to one another. Individual thoughts on the series' design may vary, but at the very least it represents the old proverb of too much of a good thing.

NSMBU was not the right title to launch with Wii U. It did not offer a compelling enough reason when an also new, fully-portable, cheaper version lie only a few shelves over. Wii U needed a Twilight Princess to complement its Wii Sports. The only explanation I have for this close proximity is that the 3DS title was rushed out the door in desperation, and Nintendo did not having anything else ready that would carry the same impact for either system.

This next bit might be blasphemy, but I think he's being too easy on Sakurai. Kid Ikarus was what wowed people at the initial 3DS unveil - it should have been ready for that first holiday season. Now, Smash Bros will be shown in mere "screenshots" at E3 while 3D Mario and Mario Kart will be playable on the show floor. Why does Sakurai get all the time in the world to finish his games when other equally important franchises are rushed out the door?

Sakurai's projects get special treatment because his work is important to fans and are nearly guaranteed to pay off. Kid Icarus wasn't guaranteed because the only people who played the originals when they were new are now adults. The audience changed for KI.

2D Marios are being released to buy time for 3D Marios. They will be default games for whenever someone buys a Nintendo system now. 2D Mario's gonna do fine.

 

[bidaum]

Looks at the Wii U, looks at the list of third party games...

Yeah but seriously... look how late they released a "comparable" console. I mean, games that have already been out on other systems may not be the best sellers of a new system *and* in a year 3rd party publishers will have moved on to the latest and greatest.

 

[Femmeworth]

Iwata. Nintendo better not end up going with some professional CEO like Yoichi Wada.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I think personally, based on personal real-world experiences and impressions from other jaded posters, Nintendo has been losing its own consumer little by little the last three generations.

(insert empirical data)
I would say in my circle of male friends, around 30 in quantity, between the ages of 25-32; all own either an Xbox 360 or PS3, most own both a 360 and PS3. While about 4 own a Wii, and hardly ever played it. The interesting thing is all generally like Nintendo, you could say several were once Nintendo hardcore, who still keep up with the latest happenings somewhat only to decide "they don't like what they see now".

This is just short hand data from a small selection subject experiment, but I bet a lot of people on NeoGaf can relate. Nintendo may never be able to capture the "dudebro" market loving that Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, but should they be able to keep the old "Nintendo core" from leaving? I'm not sure. Maybe both are a lost cause. Maybe that's why the Wii and DS were perfect for them, casual adults, children, and a shrinking remnant of repeating Nintendo fans.

 

[PhantomR]

I like Iwata, he's personable. (for a billion-dollar company president) I think NOA staff needs a shakeup though.

I just have to throw this out there. (And by the tone of your post I definitely know that you're NOT implying this)


Not all NOA staff is bad, lol. And not all of NOA are evil bastards either. There are many people who work at NOA who are absolutely the hardest of the hardcore Nintendo fans and they want the best for the company too. Many are in positions however where they are unable to do some things they would like without NCL approval. That makes it difficult, but they do the absolute best they can to work for and compete on behalf of the North American consumer.

Sometimes I think GAF thinks that NOA is a collective hive mind of people with the same opinions and same perspective on business decisions. That's not true. Operation Rainfall is a huge example of this.


That's all.

 

[lamaroo]

Yeah but seriously... look how late they released a "comparable" console. I mean, games that have already been out on other systems may not be the best sellers of a new system *and* in a year 3rd party publishers will have moved on to the latest and greatest.

I'm just saying releasing a comparably powerful console with all the correct buttons and sticks isn't an automatic recipe for success with Nintendo.

 

[bidaum]

CoD on wii was actually pretty good. i always bought the wii version due to the pointer aiming

treyarch did a great job

Mm, but you still don't have parity with the other systems; particularly control-wise. Could you give the average call of duder a nunchuck and have him (or her) not look sideways at it?

 

[Fourth Storm]

Sakurai's projects get special treatment because his work is important to fans and are nearly guaranteed to pay off. Kid Icarus wasn't guaranteed because the only people who played the originals when they were new are now adults. The audience changed for KI.

2D Marios are being released to buy time for 3D Marios. They will be default games for whenever someone buys a Nintendo system now.

I see you on the last part. Perhaps the time was right for a 3DS NSMB, but I argue that then going ahead as planned with the Wii U version diluted the perception of the series.

Or perhaps it was always the plan to release NSMBU at launch, and the 3DS game was hurried. In that case, KI should have been available as a launch title to sell the 3DS to core fans who would gladly pay a high price. The problem of releasing when it did was that the positive momentum from the initial megaton E3 2010 conference had long given way to skepticism. If 3DS had a killer app at launch (where I believe KI would have caught on more - as new IPs tend to do in the early days), they could have staggered the Mario Kart and Mario 3D Land release dates a bit more and push NSMB2 off until later this year.

I get that Sakurai's efforts in Smash are seen as worthwhile, but why is this franchise given so much more clout than Kart? At the very least, why aren't there more battle stages in each Mario Kart installment?

 

[bidaum]

I'm just saying releasing a comparably powerful console with all the correct buttons and sticks isn't an automatic recipe for success with Nintendo.

No, and I've heard a lot of people on these forums talk about Nintendo's internal politics that may have implications of their own (I don't know anything about that stuff), but I think, at present, that's where you have to start if you want to draw 3rd party developers.

 

[slightconfuse]

Nintendo pulled a Sony with the Wii U and rested on their sucess in the past gen. Look how long it took the ps3 to come into its own.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Nintendo pulled a Sony with the Wii U and rested on their sucess in the past gen. Look how long it took the ps3 to come into its own.

I'm not even that cynical. They tried to stick with a winning formula, and they have innovated. I just think they've failed to innovate in such a fashion so as to capture the public's imagination again.

 

[bidaum]

I'm not even that cynical. They tried to stick with a winning formula, and they have innovated. I just think they've failed to innovate in such a fashion so as to capture the public's imagination again.

...and their innovation is way more expensive a proposition this time around. The Wii was low power low price.

 

[maniac-kun]

Maybe we can now have realy powerful Nintendo consoles again.

...

I liked him tho

 

[Snakeyes]

Heh, I'm surprised you remembered!

That was pre-Wii days, too, back when Nintendo was coming off the (according to some posters here) "third-party-friendly" GameCube. Even at the first reveal of the Wii, before any specs were known, everybody at the company I was at was shitting on it in an unprecedented way. I heard constantly that Nintendo was "exiting the console business" with the Wii and that PS4 winning was a "foregone conclusion."

You have to also realize that a great number of GameCube ports weren't handled by the actual team developing the game -- hell, they weren't even in the same studio. They'd be outsourced to other studios to do that port in particular. This was the case for many Activision, EA, etc. titles. They simply didn't have GameCube developers at the locations I was at. Didn't have GameCubes set up anywhere. Studios like Eurocom and such were picking up the slack.

This is a large part of why I find it so hilarious when people suggest, with a straight face no less, that the Wii was a mistake and the GameCube was the right way to go.

Anyway, based on what I've heard recently, things haven't really gotten much better with developers.

I can understand hating on the GC because of its limitations and poor commercial performance or the Wii for its focus on motion gaming... But would these people still hate on a hypothetical well-rounded Nintendo system that is marketed towards every demographic instead of just kids/casuals, relatively powerful, piss easy to develop for and not overly reliant on a "gimmick"?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Mm, but you still don't have parity with the other systems; particularly control-wise. Could you give the average call of duder a nunchuck and have him (or her) not look sideways at it?

pointer + nunchuk is a better control system than dual analogue, for the same reasons mouse and keyboard is a better control system than dual analogue.

wii didn't need controller parity when it had controller superiority.

EDIT:

I can understand hating on the GC because of its limitations and poor commercial performance or the Wii for its focus on motion gaming... But would these people still hate on a hypothetical well-rounded Nintendo system that is marketed towards every demographic instead of just kids/casuals, relatively powerful, piss easy to develop for and not overly reliant on a "gimmick"?

Seems crazily unlikely at first glance, doesn't it?

 

[Zoramon089]

I think if Nintendo released a console with comparable specs and just a dual stick controller, you'd see way more cross platform titles.

You mean like the Wii U.
1. 3rd parties aren't porting their CURRENT gen games despite the system being able to handle them
2. The base controller IS DUAL STICK

People keep saying this when the situation isn't that simple

 

[Xellos]

Guys you don't have to make stuff up for the sake of your argument. Just think a little about what you want to say:



The implication of this quotes is that they don't do that. On the contrary they've been shown to bring in more people than Sony or Microsoft (perhaps combined). What you you were probably thinking was that they didn't specifically target the dudebro market.

They did expand their audience with Wii and DS, but they have been unable to retain that audience with Wii U and 3DS.

Targeting the dudebro* audience would be a mistake. That audience is myopic and the competition for their time & money is intense. The kind of software that appeals to them has very limited appeal to anyone else. Rather, Nintendo should try for games (especially non-conventional ones) with broader appeal.

*edit* Thought about it and 'dudebro' is pretty poorly defined. I assume (probably making an ass of myself by doing so) that we're talking about FPS/TPS games with heavy emphasis on machismo and competitive multiplayer.

 

[MisterHero]

I see you on the last part. Perhaps the time was right for a 3DS NSMB, but I argue that then going ahead as planned with the Wii U version diluted the perception of the series.

Or perhaps it was always the plan to release NSMBU at launch, and the 3DS game was hurried. In that case, KI should have been available as a launch title to sell the 3DS to core fans who would gladly pay a high price. The problem of releasing when it did was that the positive momentum from the initial megaton E3 2011 conference had long given way to skepticism. If 3DS had a killer app at launch (where I believe KI would have caught on more - as new IPs tend to do in the early days), they could have staggered the Mario Kart and Mario 3D Land release dates a bit more and push NSMB2 off until later this year.

I get that Sakurai's efforts in Smash are seen as worthwhile, but why is this franchise given so much more clout than Kart? At the very least, why aren't there more battle stages in each Mario Kart installment?

You might be right. IIRC even a person in Iwata Asks said that SMBWU started from the SMBW assetts. It's definitely sounding like it was a completely safe decision. However, there were articles like IGN and forum posters saying that SMB should be $20 and downloadable. Because Sonic 4 turned out so well.

I agree the whole launch of 3DS was botched. Despite being on the ground floor with 3DS, if Sakurai wanted more time, he probably needed it.

Mario Kart doesn't get enough credit, but it doesn't reach across the Nintendo fanbase like Smash does. Series that aren't in Nintendo current circulation might get good representation. Melee and Brawl respectively helped Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus find new audiences.

 

[MEATfast]

I can understand hating on the GC because of its limitations and poor commercial performance or the Wii for its focus on motion gaming... But would these people still hate on a hypothetical well-rounded Nintendo system that is marketed towards every demographic instead of just kids/casuals, relatively powerful, piss easy to develop for and not overly reliant on a "gimmick"?

They'll still hate it because it won't have Crash Bandicoot.

 

[rdrr gnr]

pointer + nunchuk is a better control system than dual analogue, for the same reasons mouse and keyboard is a better control system than dual analogue.

wii didn't need controller parity when it had controller superiority.

EDIT:



Seems crazily unlikely at first glance, doesn't it?

No.

 

[DarkPanda]

I'm not even that cynical. They tried to stick with a winning formula, and they have innovated. I just think they've failed to innovate in such a fashion so as to capture the public's imagination again.

Except it wasn't a winning formula. If it was then the Wii wouldn't have such a premature death.

 

[mantidor]

I think personally, based on personal real-world experiences and impressions from other jaded posters, Nintendo has been losing its own consumer little by little the last three generations.

(insert empirical data)
I would say in my circle of male friends, around 30 in quantity, between the ages of 25-32; all own either an Xbox 360 or PS3, most own both a 360 and PS3. While about 4 own a Wii, and hardly ever played it. The interesting thing is all generally like Nintendo, you could say several were once Nintendo hardcore, who still keep up with the latest happenings somewhat only to decide "they don't like what they see now".

This is just short hand data from a small selection subject experiment, but I bet a lot of people on NeoGaf can relate. Nintendo may never be able to capture the "dudebro" market loving that Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, but should they be able to keep the old "Nintendo core" from leaving? I'm not sure. Maybe both are a lost cause. Maybe that's why the Wii and DS were perfect for them, casual adults, children, and a shrinking remnant of repeating Nintendo fans.

My anecdotal evidence would be the opposite. Funny thing, all people I know who own a 360 only have it for Kinect and Dance Central.

Basically, anecdotal evidence amounts for nothing.

 

[mclem]

I agree. Let's hope that there are things going on behind the scenes that will ensure that the Wii U will have a good amount of those type of games. We already know that Nintendo has great relations with Capcom, Platium, and Ubisoft. But they can't stop there.

Should we infer from SMTvsFE, Soul Hackers and Etrian Odyssey that they've got particularly good relations with Atlus, too?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Except it wasn't a winning formula. If it was then the Wii wouldn't have such a premature death.

I think there's something to be said that Nintendo's strategy wasn't entirely bulletproof. However, I don't think this assessment is fair at all. For the duration of what constitutes a normal generation of hardware, the Wii was a runaway success. The fact that it wasn't futureproof was ultimately problematic, but that also doesn't erase the success it had for a number of years.