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[Tookay]

I don't know if they ever had a chance at courting third parties or not with a more powerful machine. My gut instinct is that -- provided sales were decent (i.e. better than what we're currently seeing with multi-platform ports) -- removing barriers to entry would have facilitated more enthusiasm then we're currently seeing now and going forward. But of course, that's neither here nor there. For better or worse, the machine is what it is. The bigger concern to me going forward is not whether or not the machine can secure a Call of Duty 2013 port, but in trying to sell people on what the GamePad brings to the table.

Personally, I think they've done a terrible job thus far. And they put all of their eggs in that basket. They're selling a console right now at a loss at $350 that doesn't even compare all that favorably to hardware from 7 years ago, and the whole reason for that is because you're supposed to see the GamePad as a meaningful innovation much like the Wiimote changed everything over six years ago. I'm not convinced that this particular gamble has paid off at all.

That's it right there.

The value proposition with the Gamepad just isn't there with most people. They don't see it as the innovation Nintendo is selling it as. And to be honest, I'm not really sure Nintendo believes it is an innovation either, given how confused and weak their promotion of it has been.

And, to add further insult to injury, I imagine that the pad's where Nintendo is garnering most of its additional costs for the system. So they bet on something that isn't gaining them any mindshare or consumer interest, while spending a fortune on its R&D and production along with the system.

 

[mclem]

It's not that simple. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, insiders) this is more or less what goes through a developer's head when making those decisions early in a system's life cycle:

1. Our games appeal to a relatively tech-savvy, enthusiast audience with a certain expectation of what cutting edge titles should be like.
2. As such, we need fairly powerful lead development hardware to deliver on our creative vision and our fans' expectations.
3. Nintendo's system is so underpowered that downgrading our games enough for them to be playable is either downright impossible or requires a significant effort on our part.
4. Even if we do somehow manage to deliver on the above, our enthusiast fanbase will probably not settle for a noticeably inferior port and buy the PS/XB versions anyway.
5. Therefore, serious development for a severly underpowered Nintendo system is a waste of our time and resources.

Until the industry shifts from its focus on huge blockbuster titles, that line of thinking won't be entirely wrong and Nintendo will have to adjust if it doesn't want to be pushed out of the market even further.

There's an argument that that is not going to be sustainable for all that much longer. I do wonder if part of Nintendo's strategy is relying on that proving true, and quickly. I certainly agree that I don't believe AAA is sustainable any more for anything other than the biggest publishers - but then the biggest publishers are those with the most high-profile titles.

 

[bidaum]

pointer + nunchuk is a better control system than dual analogue, for the same reasons mouse and keyboard is a better control system than dual analogue.

wii didn't need controller parity when it had controller superiority.

EDIT:



Seems crazily unlikely at first glance, doesn't it?

I grew up playing fps's with mouse and keyboard, and I never liked the pointer + nunchuck... now I'm just one person and may be an outlier, but that's beside the point. Technically betamax was arguably better than VHS, but having controller parity makes it a more attractive cross platform option.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I don't think the Wii U or 3DS were brilliant yet misunderstood ideas or anything, but I think it's kind of shitty for some people to be anticipating this after the guy brainstormed the Wii and DS. After the initial failure that was the 3DS he managed to mostly turn that around (though I guess you're stuck without an account system and stuck with that useless, power-sapping 3D-feature) that Iwata's possibly going to step down after two months of a failing console.

Seeing Nintendo play the power game again with Sony/Microsoft would be good for regular gamers, but I have a feeling after the Wii U's been less than stellar Iwata would be smart enough to think up of a new strategy than trying to superficially imitate the Wii with cheap gimmicks... Again.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I think there's something to be said that Nintendo's strategy wasn't entirely bulletproof. However, I don't think this assessment is fair at all. For the duration of what constitutes a normal generation of hardware, the Wii was a runaway success. The fact that it wasn't futureproof was ultimately problematic, but that also doesn't erase the success it had for a number of years.

Agreed. I have a feeling we'd be singing a different tune if Wii U launched in 2011 with an HD version of Skyward Sword (much how they did with Twilight Princess). It would have been a nice 5 year cycle between consoles, as traditionally was the case, and nobody would have complained about Wii "dying prematurely." Meanwhile, Wii U's technical capabilities probably wouldn't be in as much of a hot seat, with its competition still a ways off.

They should have localized games like Xenoblade way sooner to make 2011 a good going-out year. As it turned out, Wii was plenty ripe and starting to stink up the place by the time its successor landed.

 

[bidaum]

You mean like the Wii U.
1. 3rd parties aren't porting their CURRENT gen games despite the system being able to handle them
2. The base controller IS DUAL STICK

People keep saying this when the situation isn't that simple

I don't think releasing a "comparable" spec-wise console a year before everyone moves on the their next-gen, and launch with 3rd party support in the sense of games that have already been released on other systems is comparable at all.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Seeing Nintendo play the power game again with Sony/Microsoft would be good for regular gamers

I'm pretty sure if they'd gone that route, they'd be Sega Saturned this E3.

 

[bidaum]

My anecdotal evidence would be the opposite. Funny thing, all people I know who own a 360 only have it for Kinect and Dance Central.

Basically, anecdotal evidence amounts for nothing.

I said a rude thing, I take it back, but that sounds like a minority... of course anecdotal as you say.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I'm pretty sure if they'd gone that route, they'd be Sega Saturned this E3.

I meant after this generation since trying to go cheap to manufacture but have a 'unique style of gameplay' didn't work again. Even just a half-way console with a higher-quality tablet could work; what with all the talk of avoiding the Wii's 3rd party issues I sort of assumed the Wii U would be dead in the middle between the 360/PS3 and the Durango/Orbis to allow for scaled down ports without fully committing to big powerhouse consoles.

 

[mantidor]

Owning a 360 just for Kinect and Dance Central... sounds a little jacked up.

well they have other games of course, but those are the most played, and often the first purchase.

who buys a console for just one game anyway?

edit: ok I now realize the post was confusing.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I sort of assumed the Wii U would be dead in the middle between the 360/PS3 and the Durango/Orbis to allow for scaled down ports without fully committing to big powerhouse consoles.

I'd say it's really too early to say that that assumption is incorrect.

 

[noobasuar]

Maybe I'm missing it but where does he implicitly say that hes going to step down? I don't really see it in the article.....

 

[Portugeezer]

I hope not, just seems that he wanted to do better. He is a good personality, gaming needs him.

 

[XenodudeX]

I wonder if they will kill the Wii U early and release a new console if the Wii U continues to sale poorly.. Maybe thats what they should do. :/

 

[saltinekracka]

Nice to see someone who will actually take blame. Very honorable.

 

[GG-Duo]

I feel that Nintendo really needs to do something about their North American presence. Trends that you see in Japan are not being replicated here. So NA-created things like Steam and app stores are something they need to invest in.

I have no idea if Reggie is a good fit - perhaps he's operationally savvy in some areas and thus Nintendo has kept him for this long - but they really need someone to augment him for developer relations, additional social media hooks, web services, partner deals... There's a lot more that they can improve on.

On the hardware sales side, Pokemon XY will help with the 3DS sell-thru, since Nintendo portables tend to sell to kids here... but beyond that, it seems that they need to ramp up on their efforts to ensure Wii U is a success. I wonder what solution is Retro developing on this front. Tools? A unique franchise?

I don't buy the idea that Nintendo needs to get out of their core competencies, or even necessarily compete on hardware power - but if they take that route they need multiple differentiators. That means innovation, understanding the markets, and making bets. It's hard to be a Japanese hardware company these days when software platforms have evolved so quickly and integrated with hardware so tightly. Sony's feeling the pain too.

I hope not, just seems that he wanted to do better. He is a good personality, gaming needs him.

Agreed. A lot of CEOs in technology are product guys, and Iwata was a great developer.

I just hope it's not a Japanese cultural thing (look at how many Prime Ministers they've been going through) where they replace Iwata and disastrously ruin Nintendo.

 

[Tookay]

I think personally, based on personal real-world experiences and impressions from other jaded posters, Nintendo has been losing its own consumer little by little the last three generations.

(insert empirical data)
I would say in my circle of male friends, around 30 in quantity, between the ages of 25-32; all own either an Xbox 360 or PS3, most own both a 360 and PS3. While about 4 own a Wii, and hardly ever played it. The interesting thing is all generally like Nintendo, you could say several were once Nintendo hardcore, who still keep up with the latest happenings somewhat only to decide "they don't like what they see now".

This is just short hand data from a small selection subject experiment, but I bet a lot of people on NeoGaf can relate. Nintendo may never be able to capture the "dudebro" market loving that Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, but should they be able to keep the old "Nintendo core" from leaving? I'm not sure. Maybe both are a lost cause. Maybe that's why the Wii and DS were perfect for them, casual adults, children, and a shrinking remnant of repeating Nintendo fans.

From my experience this is also true.

I think there are a lot of people who have a soft spot for Nintendo and want them to succeed, but they are increasingly baffled by the decisions they make with their systems and their franchises. Moreover, their inability to "keep up" with the competition is what has frustrated a lot of them: from production values to basic online accounts. It's becoming death by a thousand paper cuts in their enthusiasm, to the point where they've just begun to tune out.

And while Nintendo has good business reasons for the way it does things (or at least, until recently), consumers aren't going to understand or be receptive to that, for obvious reasons.

 

[mantidor]

Maybe I'm missing it but where does he implicitly say that hes going to step down? I don't really see it in the article.....

Even if he is, it wouldn't be until the next fiscal year.

But you know, "doooomed", "going third party", etc, etc. Would be nice to have a decent discussion about Nintendo's current situation but I don't think it will happen.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I wonder if they will kill the Wii U early and release a new console if the Wii U continues to sale poorly.. Maybe thats what they should do. :/

This would be pulling a Sega and absolutely murder any confidence they held in the eyes of consumers.

No, this thing needs to last at least 4 years. I don't know if it needs to go 5, but they need to ride it out for a while. Change the case design maybe, but support the platform with quality games while keeping out of the red. There is plenty they can do on the hardware when it comes to software and services.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

My anecdotal evidence would be the opposite. Funny thing, all people I know who own a 360 only have it for Kinect and Dance Central.

Basically, anecdotal evidence amounts for nothing.

Question. USA? Age? I find it really hard to believe. I live in New York at that. You have male adult friends who exclusively support Wii?

From my experience this is also true.

I think there are a lot of people who have a soft spot for Nintendo and want them to succeed, but they are increasingly baffled by the decisions they make with their systems and their franchises. Moreover, their inability to "keep up" with the competition is what has frustrated a lot of them: from production values to basic online accounts. It's becoming death by a thousand paper cuts in their enthusiasm, to the point where they've just begun to tune out.

And while Nintendo has good business reasons for the way it does things (or at least, until recently), consumers aren't going to understand or be receptive to that, for obvious reasons.

Yeah.

 

[Satchel]

They should hire GAF as Nintendo president

Not unless they wanted Nintendo to go third party.

 

[DragonSworne]

If GAF was the president of Nintendo, we would have Nintndo directs everyday and live webcams of the dev rooms.

 

[Tookay]

If GAF was the president of Nintendo, we would have Nintndo directs everyday and live webcams of the dev rooms.

Good times.

 

[John Harker]

You are right that it would be a bad ROI initially, but it could benefit them in them in the future. If Nintendo caters only to existing Nintendo fans then their audience will continue to shrink.

It only counts if they see a good return in that fiscal year, unfortunately!

And they did grow their existing audience... they just lost them to cheaper alternatives.
Their core fanbase only buys traditional Nintendo IP, and the core gamer who buys everything, prefers to play multiplatform games where their friends are.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Nintendo just start to double down on their own IP, instead of spending millions trying to acquire and invest in new genres for them. They don't really have that leg to stand on profitable. I bet we see almost all of their major IPs in one for or another at E3, and Nintendo fans will be happy, and they'll have a lot of buzz. But not much else.

 

[mantidor]

Question. USA? Age? I find it really hard to believe. I live in New York at that. You have male adult friends who exclusively support Wii?

I'm 31, my circle is basically the same age, but they aren't into games that much. Not the US, latinamerica. I have one adult female cousin who only supports the Wii, actually her brother too, basically because is the only console with pirate games. I don't see them playing a CoD style game ever, even though they plated those before. They love Mario however.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Like any public company, being beholden to shareholders is destined to result in immense pressure when markets change unfavourably, and perhaps to beyond the point of return. Take the portable market. The days of dedicated handhelds dominating in the West is over. That doesn't mean they cannot make profit and live healthily within the market, but the era of domination is over. Mobile has surpassed them, and that's just a case of technology naturally evolving and becoming more widespread among the public. There's not much Nintendo can do about it.

But shareholders are always going to be pushing for more, especially when compared to profits of previous years. So what does Nintendo do in a position like that?

Go mobile.

 

[mantidor]

Go mobile.

And actually die in the process.

If anything they might need to go private again if investors are really that clueless about it.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Where did Iwata imply he would step down if his goals are not met?

 

[Yawnier]

I wonder if they will kill the Wii U early and release a new console if the Wii U continues to sale poorly.. Maybe thats what they should do. :/

That would be a total disaster and a huge waste if that were to ever happen, seeing as Nintendo already at this point have most likely already poured millions of dollars into their R&D department for the console.

 

[Zoramon089]

I don't really see the implication of resignation...like at all really. Maybe in that "commitment" line but that's stretching it

 

[Outtrigger888]

I don't really see the implication of resignation...like at all really. Maybe in that "commitment" line but that's stretching it

I don't see it at all either. I remember reading Iwata saying for the first time, the Wii u is part of his life. It was translated from that conference held yesterday.

Translation came out weird, but was worded how I typed it.

 

[ASIS]

Nintendo pulled a Sony with the Wii U and rested on their sucess in the past gen. Look how long it took the ps3 to come into its own.

I really don't think that's the case. Nintendo does seem to have some sort of vision with the Wii U but i believe there were some major hiccups on the way. I feel like they were going after a lot of 3rd party support but things got a bit rough there as well.

The real question is how is Nintendo going to market the Wii U from now on? How are they going to sell that "value" to potential consumers?

 

[Zhengi]

I always wondered why Nintendo didn't open another western studio like Retro. The yen is strong and starting another western studio to bring out games for the west would help their line up. Maybe even give charge of this to NOA so that they actually have something to do rather than just being a glorified PR department.

 

[Branduil]

That would be a total disaster and a huge waste if that were to ever happen, seeing as Nintendo already at this point have most likely already poured millions of dollars into their R&D department for the console.

It also wouldn't help them any. At this point they just have to do what they can with the Wii U.

 

[Fourth Storm]

It only counts if they see a good return in that fiscal year, unfortunately!

And they did grow their existing audience... they just lost them to cheaper alternatives.
Their core fanbase only buys traditional Nintendo IP, and the core gamer who buys everything, prefers to play multiplatform games where their friends are.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Nintendo just start to double down on their own IP, instead of spending millions trying to acquire and invest in new genres for them. They don't really have that leg to stand on profitable. I bet we see almost all of their major IPs in one for or another at E3, and Nintendo fans will be happy, and they'll have a lot of buzz. But not much else.

I have a feeling you'll end up being quite right come E3, and that the tactic will be less successful than they are hoping. It is quite unlikely any installment in their collection of IPs will sell as much as they did on Wii/DS.

I've been thinking lately how people often compare Nintendo to Disney. They both are undeniably capable of producing works that are of the highest quality and appeal to young and old alike. Remarkably, Disney seem to have the opposite approach of Nintendo when it comes to new IPs and sequels. Their big budget releases often feature entirely new characters, riding on the Disney name alone to breed awareness and build hype. In the meantime, direct sequels are often sent straight to DVD and lack the quality/budget of their blockbuster predecessors.

This approach seems to carry the benefit of exploiting their legacy characters while simultaneously not boring longtime followers by focusing primarily on rehashes. Similarly, "fresh" IPs will resonate more with a younger generation who aren't as interested in the same characters as their parents.

Such thoughts once again bring up the age-old question: Is anyone at Nintendo capable of creating a truly mass-market new IP on the level of Mario, Zelda, DK, Kirby, etc?

 

[GG-Duo]

I don't see it at all either. I remember reading Iwata saying for the first time, the Wii u is part of his life. It was translated from that conference held yesterday.

Translation came out weird, but was worded how I typed it.

I'd trust Cheesemeister3k's reading. He lives in Japan. And it's not out of the question in Asian culture for Iwata to imply stuff like this.

 

[Le Singe]

Maybe both are a lost cause. Maybe that's why the Wii and DS were perfect for them, casual adults, children, and a shrinking remnant of repeating Nintendo fans.

The Wii was their greatest success in decades and that was moving away from the core market. They should have continued in that way. Why try to be everyone's only console if you could be everyone's second or party or Nintendo console?

 

[The Horror the horror]

I have a feeling you'll end up being quite right come E3, and that the tactic will be less successful than they are hoping. It is quite unlikely any installment in their collection of IPs will sell as much as they did on Wii/DS.

I've been thinking lately how people often compare Nintendo to Disney. They both are undeniably capable of producing works that are of the highest quality and appeal to young and old alike. Remarkably, Disney seem to have the opposite approach of Nintendo when it comes to new IPs and sequels. Their big budget releases often feature entirely new characters, riding on the Disney name alone to breed awareness and build hype. In the meantime, direct sequels are often sent straight to DVD and lack the quality/budget of their blockbuster predecessors.

This approach seems to carry the benefit of exploiting their legacy characters while simultaneously not boring longtime followers with rehashes. Similarly, "fresh" IPs will resonate more with a younger generation who aren't as interested in the same characters as their parents.

Such thoughts once again bring up the age-old question: Is anyone at Nintendo capable of creating a truly mass-market new IP on the level of Mario, Zelda, DK, Kirby, etc?

Kid Icarus has the potential, and they should have given the character more limelight - meaning a new home console game and more advertising. I also think Captain Olimar could be fleshed out some more to make him mainstream accessible. Nintendo could use also use a new heroines that isn't completely clad in space armor to - you know - make the mainstream public aware that it's a she.

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that, in terms of new character development, Nintendo is out of juice or they're simply not trying to create new legacy characters.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

As awesome and as smart as Iwata is, I find it absurd that he allowed Wii U to release in the state that it did. A system that looks exactly like Wii with a new controller. After all of the consumer confusion with 3DS...seriously. People still think the gamepad is an extra controller for the Wii. At this rate, it may as well be.

 

[Fourth Storm]

The Wii was their greatest success in decades and that was moving away from the core market. They should have continued in that way. Why try to be everyone's only console if you could be everyone's second or party or Nintendo console?

True that Wii moved away from the core market in system design, but Nintendo's output of core software was top notch, and I'd be surprised if they didn't win back some of the users that they lost on Gamecube (at least in the U.S). Zelda, Kart, DKCR, and SMG on Wii gave Nintendo fans what they asked for after responding unfavorably to "Celda," Double Dash, a game with bongos as the main input, and a game with "Sunshine" in the title.

 

[GG-Duo]

The Wii was their greatest success in decades and that was moving away from the core market. They should have continued in that way. Why try to be everyone's only console if you could be everyone's second or party or Nintendo console?

They are continuing in that market... but handhelds are eating into the casual demographic. So now they're caught with losing both.
That's why the Wii U is sorta this weird amalgamation of everything. They can't bank on the casuals anymore, so they need the grace of hardcore too.

As awesome and as smart as Iwata is, I find it absurd that he allowed Wii U to release in the state that it did. A system that looks exactly like Wii with a new controller. After all of the consumer confusion with 3DS...seriously. People still think the gamepad is an extra controller for the Wii. At this rate, it may as well be.

Agreed, and he shouldn't have bet on the 3D aspect of the 3DS.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The Wii was their greatest success in decades and that was moving away from the core market. They should have continued in that way. Why try to be everyone's only console if you could be everyone's second or party or Nintendo console?

This is easier said than done. As fun as it is to sit on the sidelines and type out my observations and pretend like I understand this crazy market, the truth of the matter is that if I knew a year and a half ago that the GamePad was a dud and more importantly knew three or more years ago when the Wii U was still being cooked up in the lab what the focal point should have been, I'd probably be making the big bucks living out my childhood dream of working in video games.

Instead I work in the insurance claims biz as a developer and talk about video games on a message board under the alias Steve Youngblood in my spare time. C'est la vie.

 

[Outtrigger888]

I'd trust Cheesemeister3k's reading. He lives in Japan. And it's not out of the question in Asian culture for Iwata to imply stuff like this.

Understandable. It'd be nice to hear the words from Iwata directly, tho.

 

[flippedb]

They should localize games, maybe that way they'd sell more

Spoiler

Really now, bring some games over here!

I hope Iwata doesn't leave, that'd be sad. Who would drop the bombs?

 

[Raist]

Him leaving would probably be a good thing for customers.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Him leaving would probably be a good thing for customers.

GoldenEye XBLA might actually come out.

 

[diffusionx]

I would say in my circle of male friends, around 30 in quantity, between the ages of 25-32; all own either an Xbox 360 or PS3, most own both a 360 and PS3. While about 4 own a Wii, and hardly ever played it. The interesting thing is all generally like Nintendo, you could say several were once Nintendo hardcore, who still keep up with the latest happenings somewhat only to decide "they don't like what they see now".

I don't think there has ever been a time where Nintendo games were popular with 30 year olds. Ever.

 

[Mistle]

It's kind of odd to say this about a company, but I've become really attached to the figureheads of the Nintendo. Iwata, Miyamota, and yes, I like Reggie a lot too. It just wouldn't feel like Nintendo if any of them left! They're enjoyable to watch.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I don't think there has ever been a time where Nintendo games were popular with 30 year olds. Ever.

To be fair, Nintendo came to prominence in the 80s. There's no reason that people need to "grow out of Nintendo" the same way people don't grow out of Disney movies. People remember them fondly from their childhood and respect the quality of their output. Maybe they don't have the characters stamped all over their briefcase, but they end up seeing the movies/buying the games.

 

[Snakeyes]

That's it right there.

The value proposition with the Gamepad just isn't there with most people. They don't see it as the innovation Nintendo is selling it as. And to be honest, I'm not really sure Nintendo believes it is an innovation either, given how confused and weak their promotion of it has been.

Yup. One of the big differences between the Wiimote and the Gamepad is that the Wiimote was a true game-changer back in 06 and remained the most advanced controller on the market for over half the generation. The Gamepad, however, was introduced after tablets had taken the world by storm and did not offer anything revolutionary. Nintendo can try to spin it as a "DS setup for the home" all they want but even the most uninformed person will take a glance at the Gamepad and see it as nothing more than a gimped tablet. With sticks.

I sometimes wonder if the Gamepad would have been better off as a pack in with Nintendo's next Wii Fit kind of game. All the money they're now wasting on it could've been used towards a more powerful system and/or an evolution of the Wiimote with a built-in Vitality Sensor or something.