-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 28-Feb 3 | Melee Vs. Skullgirls: The Fate of Whens Marvel
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
WesternHeretic
Member
Watson answering stream questions on the IEBattleground channel.
Damn's where beef and Panda. Waston TALKING WRASSLIN!
Waston said that F.Champ has hooked up with a chick IN THE FGC who's half breed. LET THE GUESSING BEGAN!
Damn's where beef and Panda. Waston TALKING WRASSLIN!
Waston said that F.Champ has hooked up with a chick IN THE FGC who's half breed. LET THE GUESSING BEGAN!
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Hey Twitch folks, can we get some consistent volume controls on ads?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Parallax Scroll
Banned
It sounds like Mike Ross' Neighborhood is a weekly thing? When does it normally air?
One thing I recently noticed is the lack of game speed options as previous generations. Would love to see Xfactor level 3 in 8 stars speed ala Genesis SF games.
I think it would be cool to add more to fighting games. Evolve it somehow. Like have health and durability. Certain moves would take it's toll on both. Only way to lose is to not any health left but if you lose all your durability, walkspeed, normals, and moves are slower and have more frames as well as your character now being able to take more damage. Would make things more interesting. I can't see fighting games being the way it is till the end of time.
Watson making fun of Triforce. LOL.
CDR JR. LOL.
Putting all the raffle idiots on blast.
♥ Watson.
I think it would be cool to add more to fighting games. Evolve it somehow. Like have health and durability. Certain moves would take it's toll on both. Only way to lose is to not any health left but if you lose all your durability, walkspeed, normals, and moves are slower and have more frames as well as your character now being able to take more damage. Would make things more interesting. I can't see fighting games being the way it is till the end of time.
Watson making fun of Triforce. LOL.
CDR JR. LOL.
Putting all the raffle idiots on blast.
♥ Watson.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Where?
Turbo speed options dying off = good thing.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
You like xfactor
I wish it was toned down, but understand why it's in the game from a design perspective.
Your idea wouldn't work because it would lead to more rolling and fewer comebacks. Wouldn't be fun.
Yeah there is, and SFxTK v2013 will be there IIRC.
CrazyTank940
Member
I was hoping I'd find some sort of fighting game thread over here. Shame there isn't much that gets streamed on saturdays. Any idea when the next major event is?
Well that depends upon how durability on characters is handled. It should be a way to limit cheesy/braindead offense while also prevent you from turtling all day. Like if you spam a move too much the frame data of that move begins to suffer (think Morrigan spamming fireballs they get slower and start to dissipate once Morrigan starts using it too much). Or if you just go in with Wolverine spamming cr.L and dive kick all day the moves start to get less frame advantage and speed until you start using different moves to pressure with. I mean that's how I would go about doing it because you don't need to be punished more for getting hit as it is. I mean imagine Magneto getting first hit on Hulk, Hulk loses 1/4th durability and becomes slower... now Magneto lames him out even easier than normal. It just allows the winner to win more and easier... people would lose interest quickly.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Next major is... I don't know, Winter Brawl?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
we need a below-average player to make it more relatable
Panda, you're making the Evo 2013 documentary
Panda, you're making the Evo 2013 documentary
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Feel good story of the year when I annihilate Chris G
Okay dude if you're making an EVO documentary you don't need a detailed description of fighting games. You need like a brief minute or 2 to explain. Don't go into anti airs of stuff gosh
Okay dude if you're making an EVO documentary you don't need a detailed description of fighting games. You need like a brief minute or 2 to explain. Don't go into anti airs of stuff gosh
SolarPowered
Member
Moving from the EVO thread...
One thing I want to get off my chest immediately. Equal health and variable health(defense ratings, I guess) can both coexist. Lord knows I enjoyed MvC3 for a while and I enjoy VSav even though I play one of the 3-4 most frail characters in the game.
Fake Edit: wtf @ the sanford thing
What in the world does equal health(or defense ratings, I guess) have to do with spacing? Smart spacing, intelligent zoning and good old calculated movement doesn't suddenly become dulled because of health. There are all types of fighting games that manage movement elegantly despite wild variations in hitstun, air movement, hitboxes and even defense ratings and those are far far more drastic approaches than tweaking some miniscule defense ratings up or down by 20 percent. Smash, Melty Blood, Guilty Gear, MvC3, MvC2, Darkstalkers, Skullgirls come to mind. What difference does health make? Your other arguments(matchup variety or "risk") might have some merit if we discuss this further, but we arrive at an impasse if you are seriously going argue that this somehow negatively effects spacing.
One thing I want to get off my chest immediately. Equal health and variable health(defense ratings, I guess) can both coexist. Lord knows I enjoyed MvC3 for a while and I enjoy VSav even though I play one of the 3-4 most frail characters in the game.
Fake Edit: wtf @ the sanford thing
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
People should play SFxTK it's a good game.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You like Naruto Ultimate Ninja storm, your input is invalid.
SloaneRisette
Member
To be fair, last quarter I wrote a paper on the FGC and I explained mixups and crossups in said paper to my Anthropology paper and it worked.
Time for the weekly GGPO Vampire Savior tourney! Signups are going on right now, with the tournament set to start at 1PM PST/4PM EST. If you want to compete, go into the Vampire Savior lobby in GGPO and just ask to be added to the entrants list. Stream is @ http://www.twitch.tv/rotanibor. Bracket will be @ http://ggpovampire.challonge.com/
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah that's short and easy to explain though. You could honestly burn through the basics of fighting game terms in about 5 mins.
Characters should have different healths based on their hit box size not on their strength or lack of tools. This whole idea of give one or two characters an insane level of toolset but low health while give others worse tools but better health is a terrible design philosophy.
WesternHeretic
Member
Zero and Vergil for 1.2 Million health in UMVC3 - X please. That's all I'm asking for.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Why does sent have 890 life
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Livestream Puyo Puyo exhibition between top Japan players
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv121818102
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv121818102
That's not exactly what I am saying either. Sentinel with 900K for example makes no sense to me because he has the biggest hit box in the game and everyone has easy mode instant over heads on him. Plus his toolset isn't that stellar to begin with.
Not that giving him health would solve his problems or make his match ups better. All it will change is that we will get to see more thank god for the machine moments.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Imagine rayray with a 1.2mil health sent
darkblade77
Member
Yeah, this. In general, balancing by health has provided consistently awful results when this gets attempted. It either creates a greater quantity of lopsided matchups, or serves as a shitty band-aid against already awful matchups and doesn't withstand the test of time as the meta improves(or both since they're not mutually exclusive).
And relatively tiny changes to health IMO do nothing in the greater scope; they affect matchups in a way that is either consequential in a way that is difficult to quantify, or they effectively do nothing.
Unless health itself is a resource tied to a character's toolset directly, using it for the intent of balancing gameplay is like choosing whether to lightly tap with a plastic toy or full-swing with a sledgehammer.
SloaneRisette
Member
Imagine Rocket Raccoon with one million health.
inanutshell
Member
I remember Capcom trying to balance Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam this way by making the Darkstalkers characters have significantly less health than other characters. Darkstalker character still dominated because they could triangle jump into knockdowns over and over.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I'm OK with characters having different health values, but being like "hey this character has insane tools, but that's OK we can just give him paper health" is a shitty way to balance.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The health values in Marvel seem random as fuck overall. ArcSys games in general does a better job of balance based on life.
He wouldn't be top tier though. He still has stubby normals and problems with sj height confirms. I mean he's a good character but his health is not what is keeping him out of being tournament staple.
The only character in UMVC3 who would be impacted by a substantial life gain is Phoenix. Her having even 700K health would be broke. She is a character who on paper is so good that Capcom had to give her a lifebar on which you don't even have to land a clean hit on her to kill. Plus even with her paper health she is the only character in the game who can survive a TOD.
Capcom
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Should've been 895
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
If given the choice, I'd definitely prefer having health adjusted based on their tools rather than their hitbox size. If a game's cast has similar tools and capabilities with little to no differentiation, there would be less incentive to play someone that has a small character design.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Norcal Install at gamecenter, san mateo
(Guilty Gear, Persona 4, Melee, Kof, and Aquapazza)
http://www.twitch.tv/finestko
(Guilty Gear, Persona 4, Melee, Kof, and Aquapazza)
http://www.twitch.tv/finestko
The reason why i don't like this idea is that at the slowest speed, all the combos work because no frames are skipped, but the game looks and feels slow and nobody ever wants to play it like that. At higher speeds, more frames are skipped and combos either become inconsistent (2f links become 1f links), or stop working completely as 1f links just disappear.
I think its better to keep all the frames and have one speed, and if it feels too slow, patch the entire game but keep everything consistent. I do think you should be able to easily switch between any version of a game tho, keep a 1.0 version selectable with all the bugs there too.
I never said the cast should have similar tools but rather different yet ultimately equal tools.
Like for example a character can have an air dash or a teleport but not both at the cost of health. A character could have an install hyper or an air OK beam hyper or an invincible hyper.
Small characters would have tools on their own. Their normals would be faster, their movement would be faster on top of being harder to hit because of smaller size but will have less health because of their hit box. Bigger characters would have bigger sized normals and armored moves but have a bigger hit box and more health to accommodate for it.
The problem comes when you have a character like Arthur who has garbage mobility and can't really avoid getting hit or mixed up opponents compared to someone like Dormammu who has great mobility options, actual mix ups and a zoning/chipping game that is at times more effective than Arthur's. On top of this he does more damage AND has more health.