depths20XX
Member
Or about the thread where a guy got raped in police custody in a hospital. It was all jokes. Even the mods were joining in.
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Feminists hijack #INeedMasculismBecause hashtag. Misandry is real.
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Or about the thread where a guy got raped in police custody in a hospital. It was all jokes. Even the mods were joining in.
Devolution
Member
CHEEZMO;47491596 said:
Women in occupied countries didn't undergo mass rapes or get thrown into prostitution. Nope. Funny how that works.
Brian Griffin
Member
I think Opiate is a pretty cool guy. Eh makes good arguments and doesnt afraid of anything.
Paid less for the same job.
Considered too weak for tasks they're strong enough to do.
Steered into 'caretaker' jobs and discouraged from other fields like math, science, and engineering at a young age. A woman going into bodbuilding is considered 'manly', while a male teacher is just a teacher.
Told if they don't want to be raped, to essentially stop being a woman. Don't wear anything that could be considered revealing. Meanwhile, men can walk around in just shorts and nobody bats an eye.
Still considered the property of their husband in many states.
Cannot access the same level of reproductive healthcare as men. Men can obtain a vasectomy fairly easily. Women are given the runaround by doctors for YEARS if they want tubes tied because they'll be told "you want to wait until you have a husband to know for sure". Often from the same employer, a male can obtain free Viagra while a woman will be denied birth control pills.
I can go on.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
What's wrong with using feminism as a vehicle to promote equal rights for women though?
If you cannot honestly see that men have and frequently still are treated like second class citizens, I suggest you broaden yours
Did I ever say I was objective? I freuqent MRHA websites and I care about the cause. I'm not the BBC I'm a guy with opinions.
Apex fallacy is an argument formulated in response to the patriarchy theory, which states men are in charge of society, when actually a TINY MINORITY of men are, and women are dominant further down the pecking order
How are women dominant further down the pecking order?
User 100115
Banned
If you cannot honestly see that men have and frequently still are treated like second class citizens, I suggest you broaden yours
Until I can make the same salary as my male counterpart, not have my sexual history or style of dress become the main points if I have been raped, not automatically be treated as dumb regarding anything that isn't cooking or the like, and not have my 'nerd cred' called into question and be accused of faking it for attention simply because I am an attractive female, we can talk about how women are totally on top of everything. And I could go on, what ith congress trying to regulate my reproductive organs and access to birth control, while no one has issues with covering sexual aids for men.
And before you say 'But what about family court and reproductive rights', these things are also something that feminism is trying to address. Because women are shoved into he role of caregivers and all.
faceless007
Member
I don't have time for a longer explanation right now but what you don't realize is those forms of discrimination have historically come from other men. They didn't come from women, they're rooted in the very concepts of patriarchy you're dismissing. So if you think those are a problem and men shouldn't be held to antiquated historical mores stemming from concepts of nobility and honor, then you're actually in alignment with feminists, because they don't think men should have to be subject to them either.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
"You're a weak, silly little girl who can't be trusted to fire one of these noisy sticks with the big grown up men. Just sit at home in the dark and crochet for 14 hours *pats head* there there".
I bet you read Pigman/Chris Muir's comics unironically or something.
Man, some people will go through such mental gymnastics even the Swiss judge gives them a 9.7 just to feel like they are oppressed. Look at the crazy right wingers who crow about how hard it is for straight White Christian men in America.
Some people just want to feel special so bad. Or maybe they just want something to scapegoat for their shit lives. "Damn FEMINAZIS holding me back!! Ye-yeah! That's why I have trouble in things - the damn women holding me down!".
What a fucking joke MRAs are.
If you cannot honestly see that men have and frequently still are treated like second class citizens, I suggest you broaden yours
you can't be serious. you're either an olympic-level mental gymnast or you have no empathy and very little perspective.
yikes....
Earthstrike
Member
Just out of curiousity, how do you feel feminism fails to make this clear? It was made clear to me the first time I actually bothered to learn about it.
Dude where the fuck are you chicks working where you are not making the same salary as your male counter part? Jesus christ you live in 1981?
Fiction I love you as a poster.
But "Nerd Cred" and equal pay are not even in the same hemisphere. Seriously who the hell is a female in here who has gotten fucked on pay because they were a chick? It's 2013 .... I've had tons of boss's and managers who are female and you better believe they are making the same as their male counterparts.
Fiction I love you as a poster.
But "Nerd Cred" and equal pay are not even in the same hemisphere. Seriously who the hell is a female in here who has gotten fucked on pay because they were a chick? It's 2013 .... I've had tons of boss's and managers who are female and you better believe they are making the same as their male counterparts.
It's not doublethink. The men experience these conditions because the patriarchy-centric society enforces men to fit into and fulfill the patriarchal role. Men are both prejudiced against being able to do certain things by other men, and they (we) still have an overall advantage in society. One does not null the other.
This, also, is all nonsense. The pay gap is a myth, it vanishes from the stats when you control for different career choices, maternal leave etc.
You're also discounting the role genetic differences play in men and women's interests. Can you really see no possibility that the difference in enrollment for STEM fields is anything but down to discrimination? I suggest you watch Brain Wash, a documentary by a Norweigan comedian on just this point. He OWNS some ideologue gender equalist academics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrsF7wyUxs8
Also don't be disingenous about the revealing clothes thing. Women slut-shame way more than men do. Pure biology tells us that wearing revealing clothes is going to have some kind of impact in social relationships. There are REASONS why communities have rules and standards on that sort of thing.
Earthstrike
Member
Process of elimination silly. See if you take a power structure and eliminate all the men in it, then the most powerful person of the leftovers must be a woman. TA-DA!
No, not 'we'. 'They' do, with they being the elite class of males - business leaders, politicians, pro athletes and celebrities. All other men suffer in just the ways you pointed out
User 100115
Banned
Ah, never mind I think I will bail on this thread. Enjoy guys!
believe it or not your life experiences do not apply wholly to the rest of reality.
please, expand on this.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Most women don't make the same as their male counterpart.
I just entered a press release into our events calendar for a lecture series based on the fact that salaries for female teachers are 20% less than male teachers, and that's a gap that hasn't closed since 1975.
Also, most of us have NO CLUE what our co-workers make, and furthermore, have been conditioned to never ask.
There's multiple reasons for this, not all of them having to do with unfair pay discrepancies between the sexes - but that's damn sure one of em.
faceless007
Member
You just defined "partriarchy."
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
What a lot of you want the term "feminism" to be is called intersectionalism.
OK, and if I did, does that mean men are privileged as a class? You commit a GROSS fallacy if you group together guys working on an oil rig with the corporate criminal billionaires and say they are all 'privileged'
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're describing how the patriarchy negatively impacts men. You're validating feminism.
So go public ....
I would love to see the stats on this.
Also maybe the US educational system is still archaic as shit. But I've worked in IT related fields for the last 8 years, and this shit does not go on.
depths20XX
Member
Working for the federal gov I can see absolutely no difference in pay, it's mostly about years put in. More women than men hold the highest positions. I know this is anecdotal but just putting it out there. I'm sure it could be different in other situations.
User 100115
Banned
I wanted to respond before I bailed, but yeah, I've quit jobs because I found out I was being paid less than the men doing the exact same job as me. It happens. The Lilly Ledbetter act was supposed to make it against the law, and it was only passed a few years ago.
And yeah, I was just reeling of several examples. Y'all know I am not some man hating crazy person, after all.
And this is because fathers and other male role models in life congratulate boys for getting laid by a woman while girls going on just a date get the 'i'll meet him at the door with the shotgun' response.
When I went through being raped by a older girl when I was about 7 or 8, nobody gave a shit when I tried to talk about it later and often joked with me saying 'at least you got some, right?
".Is this still true at just the entry level though?
APEX FALLACY OMG APEX FALLACY YOU ALL NEED TO STOP PULLING THIS GARBAGE OVER AND OVER AGAIN
If the 'patriarchy' negatively impacts men then we are not privileged as a 'class' as feminists argue
Vermillion
Banned
Men are seen as the aggressors in any relationship. It's always seen as the man who goes out and gets the woman, not the other way around.
As such, when a young male student has relations with a female teacher, he's amazing for having gone out and gotten the teacher, whereas a young woman will be seen as having been acquired by the male teacher, which is creepy and wrong.
Furthermore, men have a desire to protect women - as shown by chivalrous gestures like giving them their coats (guilty), walking on the sidewalk closest to the street (don't think I've done this consciously) and other things. They also are very distrusting of their daughters' boyfriends (guilty; cousin).
Due to this protectiveness, the creepy, predatorial teacher must be hung, because of our desires as men. And it just so happens that that teacher is male.
I wonder where pro athletes god the idea of being super masculine from. Seeing as how our political system, basketball, football, and businesses came AFTER the creation of society...
This is a rather silly argument given that women pushed for this and males have been the loudest voices of opposition.
I guess it depends on field, teachers apparently are one according to a few posts above. I know you are not a man hater btw lol. Just gets old hearing how bad everyone has it I guess, nothing personal.
AbsolutBro
Member
And this is because fathers and other male role models in life congratulate boys for getting laid by a woman while girls going on just a date get the 'i'll meet him at the door with the shotgun' response.
When I went through being raped by a older girl when I was about 7 or 8, nobody gave a shit when I tried to talk about it later and often joked with me saying 'at least you got some, right?
Sorry to hear what happened to you man that sucks.
I'm afraid a lot of the 'slut v stud' double standard is rooted in biology, but that doesnt make it acceptable.
But please don't convince yourself that this horrible treatment people gave you is because you are privileged. That's tantamount to blaming yourself and you definitely arent to blame
Devolution
Member
MRAs and people endorsing their arguments do not understand the concept of the patriarchal society backfiring against men.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I-i-it's like, you come soooo close to 'getting' it, but then you swerve off at the last moment and fly into a ravine.
Vermillion
Banned
According to various sources that I've seen, as well as my professor, the pay difference is actually because women are less likely to ask for/argue for a raise. Men are more likely to, and as such end up with the higher salary.
Brian Griffin
Member
I imagine that IT and other tech jobs would be some of the more progressive careers in terms of salaries because they are relatively new fields. The wage gap would probably be more evident in fields like law or business that have been around since before women started gaining equality.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Right, which is where intersectionality comes in. You need to separate patriarchal habits/effects with men as a gender.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
When I went through being raped by a older girl when I was about 7 or 8, nobody gave a shit when I tried to talk about it later and often joked with me saying 'at least you got some, right?
I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but shit man, that's awful
I'm just glad that I'm bad at formulating arguments 'cause I get the feeling I'd get overly into these threads and get banned for being to aggressive. Because some of the replies make me quite angry.
You're thinking of feminism of the 60s and 70s. That feminism was about equality.
Modern feminism is not about equality.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Hence the press release and the lecture
Here's an article that rounds up most of the bigger numbers, with links back to the census data that supports the pay gap.
If your workplace is a place that practices equal pay, then good on you, and I hope you stay there for awhile, because the numbers out that this is NOT the norm.
The thing to keep in mind is a LOT of employers don't even realize they're devaluing their female employees like that. It doesn't even occur to them that they're practicing subtle sexism on that level. I mean, some of course ABSOLUTELY know they're being sexist, but most people don't like to imagine they're helping keep the pay gap widened. There are any number of reasons they use to ensure that gap never closes.
José Mourinho
cocknose
The idea of a male feminist annoys me. Don't know why. #ignorant
mm an interesting issue. personally I feel it's a good first step - I'd want absolute equality in the physical tests military men and women face, and selection on merit, not on quota basis. I'd also want to see equal registration for the draft too
I've seen military men arguing online that women are often held to lower standards and they worry that their units' effectiveness will go down if the superiors go easy on the women. I cant comment on it personally not being in the military myself, but it's worth considering the inside perspective
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