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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance

Haven't really got a stake in this argument, and this is just a passing observation...

Boy, if people don't like what Iwata did with Nintendo, they are going to hate what the next guy does if Iwata's gone within the year.
 
I refuse to believe that anyone that implements the worst account system of any media company in the world right now has any kind of grasp of online markets and if you have no grasp of online markets than you honestly have no place being a CEO. Nintendo having the balls to actually charge people money for what should be a reward in buying their system (VC games) also shows me the level arrogance/ineptititude at the top of Nintendo right now. The excuse that they are just "catching up" doesn't fly anymore. This is 2013 and if you don't understand online management then you're failing really hard.

Boy, if people don't like what Iwata did with Nintendo, they are going to hate what the next guy does if Iwata's gone within the year.

This idea that Iwata descended from the heavens to be one of the greatest business of the last 20 years is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. There is no proof that whoever replaced Iwata would be terrible for gamers or Nintendo.
 
I refuse to believe that anyone that implements the worst account system of any media company in the world right now has any kind of grasp of online markets and if you have no grasp of online markets than you honestly have no place being a CEO. Nintendo having the balls to actually charge people money for what should be a reward in buying their system (VC games) also shows me the level arrogance/ineptititude at the top of Nintendo right now. The excuse that they are just "catching up" doesn't fly anymore. This is 2013 and if you don't understand online management then you're failing really hard.

Why should Virtual Console games be a reward for buying the system? That's the silliest thing I have heard
 
Why should Virtual Console games be a reward for buying the system? That's the silliest thing I have heard

If you bought said virtual console games already than the fact that Nintendo wants to charge for them again is pathetic. Nintendo, presumably if they are completely insane, is making one emulator that allows VC games to play on the gamepad, but want to charge you extra for all of them?
 
Please start. I worked at NOA at one point in time as well. So feel free.

I think it's for you to justify your statement somewhat. Just because you worked there as a cleaner or maybe you were the night security guard, doesn't automatically make your opinions any more valid.

In fact, you could have been the head of NTD, or NST and your opinion would STILL need some backing up.
 
If you bought said virtual console games already than the fact that Nintendo wants to charge for them again is pathetic.

You're not though, you're paying a small amount for the extra Wii U features. Each game runs off of its own unique emulator to ensure 100% compatibility and functionality. As such, they have to develop each one seperately. It's not an ideal situation, but it's understandable
 
This right here. All it needs is a steady stream of good games and they are back in business.
I clearly remember the SNES launch, N64 one (oh God) and GameCube one for instance and all of them had a post launch draught to a certain degree.
Looks like some people want them to fail so bad that they start screaming stupidity at every opportunity.
If by Christmas we still are in this situation it's time to start panicking.

Not that right now is looking rosy at all with the numbers coming out.
But then again, no one is gonna buy a system that doesn't have the right games.

I agree, but you have to understand that humans are impetous creatures. You give them one bit of evidence that fits their view and they pounce on it. They now know what's going to happen, not only in 1 year but in 10, 20, 50 years from now depending on their naiveté.
 
As long as the person taking over realises that Nintendo IP needs to stay on Nintendo hardware, then I don't mind. If some one comes in and starts releasing titles on android or iphone, then Nintendo are prpbably doomed.
I strongly believe that Nintendo should release their casual games on smartphones and tablets.

I'm not talking about Mario, Zelda and Metroid here, these should stay on Nintendo hardware, I'm talking about games like Nintendogs, Style Savvy, Art Academy etc.

It's beyond clear that the casual market has migrated over to Android and iOS devices. Nintendo could make some money by releasing these games on non-Nintendo hardware, the already have most of their casual games bombing on their own hardware anyway.
 
You're not though, you're paying a small amount for the extra Wii U features. Each game runs off of its own unique emulator to ensure 100% compatibility and functionality. As such, they have to develop each one seperately. It's not an ideal situation, but it's understandable

What proof do we have of this? Even if this is true, Nintendo's account system is still the worst in the world (that I know of).
 
In the (IMHO, not as realistic as many of you think / desire) case Iwata resign, probably the new CEO will be one of the other members of the BoD. And remember it's the BoD + Iwata that decides strategies / what to do. So, I think that the new president, if it happens, won't say "Let's go to phones!". Remember that Japanese companies have also culture as one of their deepest characteristics, and that certainly won't allow Nintendo to "put Mario on iOS". And Iwata could actually still have a pretty active role in the company through BoD.

What Nintendo needs to change is being more quick to react to trends. And actually, the reorganisation they're doing is sincerly quite a big move in that sense: that will allow to be able to develop games much faster and with much better integration between platforms. We're going to see results at the end of this gen / at the beginning of next gen: those are long term plans.
 
This would be sharper commentary if they didn't have to take massive steps to right that course, and if it was hitting forecasts. Mind you, it would be silly to look at the current situation and call it a failure, but looking at its performance since inception, it's equally silly to declare this a real feather in his cap, particularly if the Wii U requires similar drastic steps.

True. It's probably premature to cite it as an example in favour of Iwata. Calling it a failure though is certainly a bit disingenuous now.
 
I strongly believe that Nintendo should release their casual games on smartphones and tablets.
That wouldn't help drive their hardware though, so it would be silly to do so. If anything, that would just make things even worse. Plus it would start messing with peoples expectations, if they started putting casual games on iOS and the like, people would be waiting for them to take the next step and put their big guns on there as well.

What proof do we have of this?
I can't remember where this came from, but I'm 90% sure this is the case. Which is why it's taking so long to have VC games on the gamepad, they have to redone them one by one.
 
Hyperbole, hyperbole everywhere.

Seriously, I can't help but burst into laughter at some absurd comments in this thread. If Iwata, the guy who steadied the 3DS after a poor launch, was kicked out because of a poor WiiU launch, how would that help Nintendos situation? Nintendo would be an absolute mess if they were that trigger happy.

He is the one responsible for the poor 3DS launch. Crediting him for fixing his own mistake seems odd.
 
That wouldn't help drive their hardware though, so it would be silly to do so. If anything, that would just make things even worse. Plus it would start messing with peoples expectations, if they started putting casual games on iOS and the like, people would be waiting for them to take the next step and put their big guns on there as well.

I can't remember where this came from, but I'm 90% sure this is the case. Which is why it's taking so long to have VC games on the gamepad, they have to redone them one by one.

also how will wii sports work on iphone and ipad? also 30% of their revenue goes to apple?

no way nintendo is going to do that
 
Are you someone who views the PSP as a failure? Or the GBA? Just curious.

The 3DS is doing much better than before. It is actually a healthy platform now. It's built up a nice WW sales figure (about 30 million as of the end of last year).

I didn't call the 3DS a failure. But the fact that it's not a vita-level failure doesn't make it an Iwata success story. Nintendo though the 3DS would be a true DS successor. Similar sales levels, fat margins, lots of money. Instead, it limped out of the gate, required a massive price cut, and moved Nintendo from profitable to a money loser.

After that price cut, it took off in a single small territory. In the rest of the world it has middling-to-poor hardware sales and abysmal software sales, and Nintendo continues to lose money.

Claiming that as a feather in Iwata's cap is ridiculous.
 
Claiming that as a feather in Iwata's cap is ridiculous.

Its tracking ahead of the DS in the US actually.
Behind the DS in Japan.

You really think its all that simple?
Please inspire us with what CEO could have done something different to make the same sales they made over 2005-2011 in todays market.

Co'mon.
 
He is the one responsible for the poor 3DS launch. Crediting him for fixing his own mistake seems odd.

How is that odd? He stepped in and refocused that platform and turned things around within a year. He deserves a huge amount of credit for that and it's continuing successes since then.
 
I think it's for you to justify your statement somewhat. Just because you worked there as a cleaner or maybe you were the night security guard, doesn't automatically make your opinions any more valid.

In fact, you could have been the head of NTD, or NST and your opinion would STILL need some backing up.

No it isn't. He presented a number of widely (but not universally) accepted opinions. Someone said that his opinions are wrong, so wrong that they won't even say how wrong they are.

If someone has a problem with his opinion, they should present a counter-argument, not "do nothing" or make light of his credentials after he claims to have some.
 
He is the one responsible for the poor 3DS launch. Crediting him for fixing his own mistake seems odd.

I think any successful platform (if thats how it turns out) should be a fairly good reason to give someone credit. but as i said above, it would be premature to congratulate Iwata on the 3DS. Using it as an example of why he should be fired is odd though.
 
Its tracking ahead of the DS in the US actually.
Behind the DS in Japan.

Oh come on. Don't give me that LTD bullshit. Look at what the 3DS is doing now, and what the DS was doing at a comparable period in its lifespan. Stop ignoring the fact that Nintendo has had to revise their forecast down nearly every quarter.

You really think its all that simple?
Please inspire us with what CEO could have done something different to make the same sales they made over 2005-2011 in todays market.

Co'mon.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. It's simple to be the CEO, and I'm the man to run Nintendo.
 
How is that odd? He stepped in and refocused that platform and turned things around within a year. He deserves a huge amount of credit for that and it's continuing successes since then.

He didn't "step in and fix it", he broke it and was already "in". Of course he's expected to fix it. No extra credit for fixing what you broke.
 
nky1umF.jpg


The pink line. 3DS sales went up after the price drop, but then went back down, stabilising with Mario Kart and 3D Land.

Media Create Sales: Week 32, 2011 (Aug 08 - Aug 14) Price Drop = 196.077
Media Create Sales: Week 35, 2011 (Aug 29 - Sep 04) 3 weeks later = 54.744
Media Create Sales: Week 48, 2011 (Nov 28 - Dec 04) Mario Kart 7 released = 205.962

This is a great graph. I had no idea the old DS was selling so poorly during 2011 in comparison to everything else.
 
Nintendo having the balls to actually charge people money for what should be a reward in buying their system (VC games) also shows me the level arrogance/ineptititude at the top of Nintendo right now.

lol talk about hyperbole, giving away vc games for free refusing what basically is free money is suddenly a good idea, thanks heaven you and many here are far from influencing Nintendos decisions, the company would be bankrupt within a very short time.
 
What proof do we have of this? Even if this is true, Nintendo's account system is still the worst in the world (that I know of).

I can confirm that every Nintendo VC game is "tweaked" from general-purpose emulators by Nintendo staff.

Every VC game has unique settings that prevent the emulator from being compatible with other games. That's one of the reasons why it takes so damn long to release VC games.
 
lol talk about hyperbole, giving away vc games for free refusing what basically is free money is suddenly a good idea, thanks heaven you and many here are far from influencing Nintendos decisions, the company would be bankrupt within a very short time.

also you can play VC games on WiiU. they are adding off tv play to it and charging for that feature additionally.

Sure in light of other platforms that offer cross tv play thats kinda overpriced. but on the other hand there is no digital library of old games like the VC
 
I didn't call the 3DS a failure. But the fact that it's not a vita-level failure doesn't make it an Iwata success story. Nintendo though the 3DS would be a true DS successor. Similar sales levels, fat margins, lots of money. Instead, it limped out of the gate, required a massive price cut, and moved Nintendo from profitable to a money loser.

After that price cut, it took off in a single small territory. In the rest of the world it has middling-to-poor hardware sales and abysmal software sales, and Nintendo continues to lose money.

Claiming that as a feather in Iwata's cap is ridiculous.

My point is, using it as an argument against Iwata is ridiculous. It's sold 30 million units WW so far in a market where smartphones and tablets exist and many were saying handheld consoles are dead. And it doesn't even have Pokemon yet! ;-p
 
Because you're using the 3DS as a point against Iwata, which is ridiculous. It should be a point FOR him, if anything, because he managed to make it a success despite market conditions (smartphones, tablets, etc).

It's going to do worse than DS because its concept is nowhere near as innovative or widely appealing. 3DS can be a success commercially but still be a failure compared to expectations. A company with shareholders needs growth.
 
It's going to do worse than DS because its concept is nowhere near as innovative or widely appealing. 3DS can be a success commercially but still be a failure compared to expectations. A company with shareholders needs growth.

Maybe you don't remember that DS is the best selling gaming device ever. We won't probably see another success like that ever. The same as we probably won't see a home console with a PS2 level of sales.
 
lol talk about hyperbole, giving away vc games for free refusing what basically is free money is suddenly a good idea, thanks heaven you and many here are far from influencing Nintendos decisions, the company would be bankrupt within a very short time.

u don't know how many times i say that to myself everytime i see threads like this.
 
It's going to do worse than DS because its concept is nowhere near as innovative or widely appealing. 3DS can be a success commercially but still be a failure compared to expectations. A company with shareholders needs growth.

So you're saying that its completely reasonable to fire Iwata because 3DS and WiiU won't surpass DS and Wii in sales? Even if they end up selling a good amount?

I'm sorry, but that's like dropping Ronaldo because he only scored 2 goals this match instead of getting a hat trick, like last match.
 
My point is, using it as an argument against Iwata is ridiculous. It's sold 30 million units WW so far in a market where smartphones and tablets exist and many were saying handheld consoles are dead. And it doesn't even have Pokemon yet! ;-p

Yeah, I know that's your point. And I'm disagreeing with you. It has done much, much worse than Iwata said it was going to do. When you say "in a market where smartphones and tablets exist " you are offering a possible explanation for it not meeting projections. But those things existed when Iwata made the projections.

And it's not just the initial, pre-launch forecasts that were wrong. Here's the 3DS forecasts for the Nintendo has released for the current FY:

Code:
              HW      SW
Apr 2012   18.5M     73M
Oct 2012   17.5M     70M
Jan 2013   15.0M     50M
 
It's going to do worse than DS because its concept is nowhere near as innovative or widely appealing. 3DS can be a success commercially but still be a failure compared to expectations. A company with shareholders needs growth.

fun fact: every gaming system this generation, handheld or console, is going to sell less than the DS did.

the days of dedicated gaming hardware selling 150 million units are gone.

I'd honestly be surprised to see any new console/handheld even match the wii's sales, let alone reach a figure as astounding as the DS/PS2.
 
fun fact: every gaming system this generation, handheld or console, is going to sell less than the DS did.

the days of dedicated gaming hardware selling 150 million units are gone.

I'd honestly be surprised to see any new console/handheld even match the wii's sales, let alone reach a figure as astounding as the DS/PS2.

Pretty much what I think as well. I would be surprised if consoles even reach PS3 numbers worldwide at this point.
 
Yeah, I know that's your point. And I'm disagreeing with you. It has done much, much worse than Iwata said it was going to do. When you say "in a market where smartphones and tablets exist " you are offering a possible explanation for it not meeting projections. But those things existed when Iwata made the projections.

And it's not just the initial, pre-launch forecasts that were wrong. Here's the 3DS forecasts for the Nintendo has released for the current FY:

Code:
              HW      SW
Apr 2012   18.5M     73M
Oct 2012   17.5M     70M
Jan 2013   15.0M     50M

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sure, the 3DS could be doing better, but I think 30 million so far is fairly good. I highly doubt another CEO would have been much more successful with a dedicated handheld in this market, and since going the iOS route wouldn't be very profitable (and would just be a plain bad idea for Nintendo), the 3DS at the moment is among the better-case scenarios IMO.
 
You're not though, you're paying a small amount for the extra Wii U features. Each game runs off of its own unique emulator to ensure 100% compatibility and functionality. As such, they have to develop each one seperately. It's not an ideal situation, but it's understandable

raredaigofootage3u4c.gif


Do you really believe that?
 
It's going to do worse than DS because its concept is nowhere near as innovative or widely appealing. 3DS can be a success commercially but still be a failure compared to expectations. A company with shareholders needs growth.
Cards on the table time: Which system or systems do you see posting notable growth compared to the generation gone by by... let's say this time in 2015?

If you want to withold an answer 'til after E3, that's fine, although we do have lots of little tidbits already that might give you some ideas.
 
fun fact: every gaming system this generation, handheld or console, is going to sell less than the DS did.

the days of dedicated gaming hardware selling 150 million units are gone.

I'd honestly be surprised to see any new console/handheld even match the wii's sales, let alone reach a figure as astounding as the DS/PS2.

I've been saying this for months. Anybody who even uses the DS/GBA as comparisons is being foolish. Those systems released in a world without any iOS or smartphone/tablet saturation. Totally different world.

I honestly didn't expect 3DS to be anywhere near where it is right now after that launch.
 
Cards on the table time: Which system or systems do you see posting notable growth compared to the generation gone by by... let's say this time in 2015?

If you want to withold an answer 'til after E3, that's fine, although we do have lots of little tidbits already that might give you some ideas.

I'm not sure. I'd be surprised if gaming in general doesn't shrink on dedicated platforms in the next decade. But that doesn't mean those are acceptable results. Nintendo don't have to stick to their existing business model in spite of it seeming increasingly dated.
 
In regards to the 3DS, let's see...

-He made the call the jack up the price, leading to the horrible situation the hardware faced at launch.

-He made the call to market it like the DS, leading to the horrible situation 3DS faced at launch (and to this day really) where the public didn't really know that what they were looking at was brand new, "must have" hardware.

-He made the call to not have any "must have" titles available at launch, leading to the horrible situation 3DS faced at launch with people seeing no games worth buying a $250 handheld for.


And, to fix the mistakes that HE made, he had to...

-Publicly apologize (the first of many times this would happen, as we now know)

-Accept a paycut

-Slash the price of the hardware by more than 30% within the first 6 months of its life

-Offer an "ambassador program" to keep early adopters happy


It seems to me people aren't really grasping how much of a big a fucking deal everything Iwata had to sacrifice to save the 3DS was. These weren't just logical "steps" taken to promote the hardware; it was a fucking hail mary. A hail mary that had repercussions. I mean, just look at the NPD thread, and how many people aren't buying Wii U because they're now sure a price cut is imminent, and are "waiting for the ambassador program." It contributed to a mindset that going in on Nintendo hardware early just isn't fiscally smart. So I don't think it's smart to look at the situation with Wii U and think "Oh, Iwata will just do what he did with the 3DS and everything will be fine - GET OFF HIS BACK!" They had to make some pretty reckless moves to save the 3DS and you better believe the BoD won't be happy if they have to repeat the tactic just to save another hardware launch that Iwata fucked up in such an obvious way. If you don't think he was under threat of the chopping block the first time around, you're kidding if you think he's not now.

And I can't say he doesn't deserve it. The Wii U launch was fucked, and in many obvious ways that people were calling for months - even years - before the launch. Iwata chose to sit on his ass, not pay attention to the industry, not pay attention to the competition, not foster stronger relationships with western developers, not use Nintendo's hand-over-fist profits to expand, and not evolve, period. And now, because of him, Nintendo's in a position where they are once again years behind the rest of the industry, only this gen is the worst possible time for that because now the industry itself is changing. Nintendo's not even prepared for Sony and Microsoft's moves. What the hell are they gonna do when Apple and Google makes another play for the living room?

If he goes? As we say in PopGAF: Ch...BYE
 
If that's true, then Nintendo is screwed. They'll just continue sliding into obscurity and obsolescence.
They've been on track to do that for the last 15 years so why stop now? Over dramatic I know but this is a culmination of their attitude and business model. Slow, do as little as possible, as cheaply as possible and rely on first party games to sell systems. The can be late to HD, online little by little years after the competition, no account systems, all the little things because they have great games. People put up with the other stuff.

However the market has gone through massive upheaval thus gen. More gamers, iPhone and casual gaming, middle tier pubs dying, studios closing and generally a more polarised market. AAA went bigger, casual went more casual with phones and indies mAde a mark. And basically Nintendo fit in none of them. I know their top tier stuff is amazing but its not the type of thing that was what defined AAA this gen. So Nintendo lost a lot of casuals. They weren't in the AAA market apart from first party, and they had antiquated systems that weren't indie friendly.

Wii U I think is there attempt to get back the AAA and indie whilst trying to keep the unique casual stuff like Wii Fit owners. Indies they seem to be doing OK although output is too low. AAA is looking like a struggle as third parties delay games or ignore it. Its just current level hardware so not exciting enough to feel mect-gen and get the hype pumping. We've also yet to see unique casual stuff and I dunno if that crowd is just sick of peripheral gaming anyway.

They're stuck in a sort of gaming limbo. As we approach Orbis and Durango launches that will be the real indicator of software support.
 
If that's true, then Nintendo is screwed. They'll just continue sliding into obscurity and obsolescence.
Pretty much.

Iwata is too short-sighted, too Japanese-centric, completely out of touch with the western market and his management is too conservative for Nintendo's own good.
 
Man, I'm so confused by the posts that said nothing would change/things would get worse without Iwata while ignoring the fact Iwata has drove Nintendo into the red.

Jesus christ.

Although I must admit, Iwata has to be the luckiest CEO in the world if all his short comings can be brushed off because of a couple of actions he did 6 years ago.

It's like if a Military General conducted a war mission costing tens of thousands of lives but no one wants him replaced because of a battle he won 10 years ago. Hey, that reminds me of someone familiar...
 
It seems to me people aren't really grasping how much of a big a fucking deal everything Iwata had to sacrifice to save the 3DS was. These weren't just logical "steps" taken to promote the hardware; it was a fucking hail mary. A hail mary that had repercussions. I mean, just look at the NPD thread, and how many people aren't buying Wii U because they're now sure a price cut is imminent, and are "waiting for the ambassador program." It contributed to a mindset that going in on Nintendo hardware early just isn't fiscally smart. So I don't think it's smart to look at the situation with Wii U and think "Oh, Iwata will just do what he did with the 3DS and everything will be fine - GET OFF HIS BACK!" They had to make some pretty reckless moves to save the 3DS and you better believe the BoD won't be happy if they have to repeat the tactic just to save another hardware launch that Iwata fucked up in such an obvious way. If you don't think he was under threat of the chopping block the first time around, you're kidding if you think he's not now.

And I can't say he doesn't deserve it. The Wii U launch was fucked, and in many obvious ways that people were calling for months - even years - before the launch. Iwata chose to sit on his ass, not pay attention to the industry, not pay attention to the competition, not foster stronger relationships with western developers, not use Nintendo's hand-over-fist profits to expand, and not evolve, period. And now, because of him, Nintendo's in a position where they are once again years behind the rest of the industry, only this gen is the worst possible time for that because now the industry itself is changing. Nintendo's not even prepared for Sony and Microsoft's moves. What the hell are they gonna do when Apple and Google makes another play for the living room?

If he goes? As we say in PopGAF: Ch...BYE

Great post. People really don't understand just how 1-time-only the 3DS's price cut was. It was a desperate move that Nintendo cannot repeat again without permanently damaging their reputation and business model. There's a reason why Sony hasn't attempted the same thing with the Vita.

As for Iwata, he may not be as rigid as Yamauchi was, but he's still very conservative and resistant to change, which is not a good thing in today's market. Listening to his speeches about the state of the industry, the ones that people on GAF praise him endlessly for, are basically him shouting "Damnit Industry, stop changing!" He comes from a very traditional, very Japanese background and either can't or won't understand how the market outside of Japan in changing. In Japan it's easy; online isn't a big deal, and the switch from consoles to handhelds was something that he could understand and deal with. But in the West... online accounts, multimedia functionality, "dudebro" games, making deals to get games, all the stuff that's important to the non-Japanese market is stuff that he's choosing to ignore and that's what's gotten Nintendo into the position it's in. If Iwata can't wrap his head around what foreign markets want in the next year, then he deserves to be replaced, hopefully by someone younger with a more global outlook.
 
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