Or maybe it's just that some people preferred the products of the Yamauchi era Nintendo (both hardware and software-wise).
And, really, there's nothing wrong with that.
After all, most gamers usually speak as consumers not as imaginary shareholders.
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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
And, really, there's nothing wrong with that.
After all, most gamers usually speak as consumers not as imaginary shareholders.
I agree with everything you said, except for this tidbit. I can't remember how many times I've read on the interwebs that Xenoblade looked amazing, but they thought it was a shame that it was released on Wii. Several others even wanted the game ported to PS3.
Perception of the Wii flew out of the window somewhere at the end of 2008 and ever so slowly people gave up on the system. Which is a crying shame, because 2010 was the consoles finest year. Only a few people gave a shit beyond SMG 2 and "that horrible Metroid game".
POWERSPHERE
Member
People like what they don't have.
What you say makes complete sense but nintendo is public traded company and shareholders want immediate results. He may not be given the chance to turn it around.
Lets see how they react on the Q4 results
timetokill
Banned
This shit happens with every game on a Nintendo platform that doesn't explicitly have Nintendo's big franchise characters in it.
None of the above. The reason is obvious. Gaming exploded big time in the 7th Generation, but now there is more competition from cheap options like iOS, Android, PC, and social websites which are good enough for most people. We are talking about a generation where even the PSP outsold the NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Atari 2600, OG Xbox, and GC. The top nine best selling systems consists of the entirely of the 7th Generation, as well as the Game Boy/Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, PlayStation 1 & PlayStation 2. There is no way that in this new era where gaming has expanded to platforms that were previously unheard of that they can achieve those kinds of levels, especially if everyone is moving toward digital distribution where an indie game would be cheaper to buy and quicker to download than a $60 AAA title.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
The only way systems outsell the last gen is if they can come up with hooks to appeal to people. Wii had motion controls, obviously, but 360 and PS3 both had value as entertainment devices. I doubt Microsoft are campable of releasing something truly mindblowing in terms of the average person, but if 720 can be the definitive "entertainment hub" or whatever, that can push units.
shira
Member
I hope Miyamoto is done for real and someone else can step up.
I don't mind small stuff or his name on the box, but someone over there really needs to figure shit out on next-level genius type miracle.
Otherwise the next system is going to be doa.
Exterminieren
Banned
This thread is talking about business practices, not games.
If people are going to request Yamauchi on the back of these business results from a position of ignorance about how he does business, they full well deserve to be called out on it.
Aquamarine
Member
He's also 85 years old. The man can't live forever, and if his family sells his shares, someone else can jump on them and seize 10% of the company.
While true, I still remember soms memorable quotes from shareholders concerning Nintendo. I don't think he's in danger at all.
Oh yeah, it happened with Sin & Punishment SttS as well lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
There was someone asking for a Fire Emblem Vita port in one of the FE threads last week.
Aquamarine
Member
Interesting enough, Yamauchi actually left Nintendo at the end of Q2 2005 (late June)...he was still at Nintendo for pretty much all of the GameCube's prime, and the beginning of the DS generation.
The Wii was the first console which was launched 100% without any Yamauchi influence whatsoever. That one was 100% Iwata. As was the 3DS and the Wii U.
People just really don't get how things work. I too often see calls for Nintendo games on third party consoles. I periodically get e-mails asking when a Pokémon game is to be released on the Vita/iPhone.
Nintendo do have to sort this out, and they need to do it with the current team. Changing it would be drastically bad. It wouldn't be "Oh, we'll regroup", it'll be "How do we shift this to make more money".
Nintendo are among the only gaming companies who, while wanting to make money, don't treat the consumer as bags of cash waiting to be given. Look at their DLC policies. The DLC has to be completed after the completion of the game, and has to be an extra. then, when they do DLC, it's worth it, look at the New Super Luigi Bros DLC. With Animal Crossing New Leaf, they're giving loads of free items that other companies would batch together and then sell for $5.
This is very likely to be lost if Iwata goes.
I really don't see why people think it's a solution
Nintendo do have to sort this out, and they need to do it with the current team. Changing it would be drastically bad. It wouldn't be "Oh, we'll regroup", it'll be "How do we shift this to make more money".
Nintendo are among the only gaming companies who, while wanting to make money, don't treat the consumer as bags of cash waiting to be given. Look at their DLC policies. The DLC has to be completed after the completion of the game, and has to be an extra. then, when they do DLC, it's worth it, look at the New Super Luigi Bros DLC. With Animal Crossing New Leaf, they're giving loads of free items that other companies would batch together and then sell for $5.
This is very likely to be lost if Iwata goes.
I really don't see why people think it's a solution
Exterminieren
Banned
In fairness, you're thinking as a consumer. Don't get me wrong, that's great for us, but if things are going disastrously wrong, as they certainly seem to be, our feelings are kinda... well, not irrelevant, but not at the forefront.
As much as its appreciated, free DLC isn't going to turn the Wii U around or fix the deep cracks in Nintendo's infrastructure.
Yes, I am thinking as a consumer, but so are most people here.
It'd likely be extremely detrimental for us if Iwata was to go.
There are other ways to fix things than just "Oh let's fire the higher ups".
Exterminieren
Banned
The aim of this thread is to address concerns in business performance.
I like what Iwata does, but it's flagrantly obvious change needs to come, and pretty damn sharpish too.
Agreed. However, is firing Iwata the change that is necessary? I'm not so sure.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Nintendo could always do a shared CEO thing.
Leave Iwata making the decisions but have a new public face that is making claims of shaking things up. People might get suspicious after a while, though, but it could move the boulder uphill just enough to gain some momentum.
There are, but sometimes it feels like Iwata is incapable of finding those solutions or unwilling to apply them.
The problem is in what was done 2009-2011, and if heads need to roll to appease shareholders he's at the top of the list even if his successor is fundamentally similar in strategy.
The wildcard here is that the guy to appease is Yamauchi, who knows more about the business than your average investor and is less likely to be satisfied by a WSJ headline noting the firing of a guy who lost him money.
I like Iwata overall and I think, in terms of quality-software, the Wii/DS era has been one of Nintendo's stronger periods (especially after the weak, rushed offerings during the GCN years). I think he, as a developer himself, understands how to nurture and spread talent.
However, it's beginning to become apparent his business stewardship over both the Wii U/3DS has been fraught with problems. And most of it stems from decisions made during the last generation to not invest into a foundation for this one; in effect, they've wasted a fantastic opportunity. The Wii/DS generation gave them a lot of room to manuever, expand, and wisely invest in studios and talent, while giving them time to prepare for the rigors of HD development. You look at Nintendo's launch lineups for 3DS and Wii U and wonder where the hell that time and money went.
However, it's beginning to become apparent his business stewardship over both the Wii U/3DS has been fraught with problems. And most of it stems from decisions made during the last generation to not invest into a foundation for this one; in effect, they've wasted a fantastic opportunity. The Wii/DS generation gave them a lot of room to manuever, expand, and wisely invest in studios and talent, while giving them time to prepare for the rigors of HD development. You look at Nintendo's launch lineups for 3DS and Wii U and wonder where the hell that time and money went.
JordanN
Banned
You could say Iwata is already doing this.
Either way, unless this new president kills off Wii U (how ironic), they'll still have to deal with it. At which point, why not just make the beastly successor?
Actually, I wouldn't mind if Nintendo has their fight with GREE if they provide a super powered cellphone or whatever hardware that plays Mario on the side.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
You forgot that he created Sora to work as a freelance video game designer to different companies, hence makes no sense saying Meteos is his property because he worked as freelance designer with Q Entertainment. This is no indication that he's a bad executive.
Because he was invited by Iwata to work as director on Brawl, who opened a new office in Tokyo just for its production. It wasn't his studio, so it wasn't up to him to decide how many people would work in the project. Once again, not an indication of being a bad executive.
Because Project Sora was Kid Icarus. Sora Ltd. didn't closed and it's working now with the new Smash Bros title.
Great post.
There are options on Nintendo to replace Iwata. It's naive from Iwata's defenders to say there's no one else left on Nintendo who can take his place as president. Is this new president can do a better or worst job? We can't say for sure, but all Nintendo need is someone who can actually change it's direction and stop being restrictive the way Iwata turned Nintendo. This is not an impossible achievement to make.
I think this idea that Iwata is some Glinda The Good Witch of gaming is total bull.
I used to think that, too. That is, until that fateful E3 when, instead of debuting Xenoblade on stage and insuring gamers and their base that they indeed gave a shit about them, Iwata instead chose to peddle the Wii Freaking Vitality Sensor.
So concerned was he with maintaining casual interest; so unconcerned was he with pleasing gamers and their traditional base, that he chose to push obvious vapor hardware (without even sparing some BS software to show it off) instead of sparing time to show off the game that would go on to be considered the best JRPG of the gen.
My eyes were opened that day. I saw through the cooked smile, the goofy-ass haircut, and the awkward demeanor, and into the smarmy, full-of-shit core that lies within every CEO whose major goal is to get as much of your money as possible with as little investment as possible.
Iwata is no different. He may not nickel and dime with DLC, but he does in other ways. Hell, let's not forget that the reason Nintendo was even able to slash the price of the 3DS so quickly was because Iwata made the choice to jack the price sky high after gauging E3 hype.
Don't be naive.
I used to think that, too. That is, until that fateful E3 when, instead of debuting Xenoblade on stage and insuring gamers and their base that they indeed gave a shit about them, Iwata instead chose to peddle the Wii Freaking Vitality Sensor.
So concerned was he with maintaining casual interest; so unconcerned was he with pleasing gamers and their traditional base, that he chose to push obvious vapor hardware (without even sparing some BS software to show it off) instead of sparing time to show off the game that would go on to be considered the best JRPG of the gen.
My eyes were opened that day. I saw through the cooked smile, the goofy-ass haircut, and the awkward demeanor, and into the smarmy, full-of-shit core that lies within every CEO whose major goal is to get as much of your money as possible with as little investment as possible.
Iwata is no different. He may not nickel and dime with DLC, but he does in other ways. Hell, let's not forget that the reason Nintendo was even able to slash the price of the 3DS so quickly was because Iwata made the choice to jack the price sky high after gauging E3 hype.
Don't be naive.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Oh Iwata is definitely already doing that.
I am saying that a new president isn't going to suddenly jump in the sharktank like people seem to think. If a new head of Nintendo rises up because Nintendo needs profitable endeavors, they are absolutely going the route of Mobage and GREE.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Nintendo's games haven't been as good since Iwata took over. Their hardware hasn't been as good either. So by that logic I don't see any reason to protect him. If there's a new CEO who's more aware of what is necessary to be competitive rather than trying to be cute in webcasts, it could be a good thing.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm so, so glad you speak for all of us.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Yea because GameCube is the only system Nintendo ever made prior to the wii right?
I keep reading this but, realistically speaking, what kind of profit can they make by going iOS/GREE exclusive?
Whether it's Nintendo, Ubisoft or Square-Enix, I don't believe that any major publisher would ever be satisfied just by their iOS/GREE numbers.
The Gree route, not Gree exclusive. F2P with heavy IAP and collection focus.
Remember the Pokemon card game? That on a cell phone, or on the 3DS, at the same $5 a pack.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
There's no evidence to back up these claims.
The last time Nintendo really had market leadership, I mean, strong hardware, third-party support and consistent sales from start to end, was during the NES and SNES days. So stop to use the GameCube as excuse to defend Iwata's direction.
If new management is installed to pursue sure-thing, short-term profit, they are going to go straight to the growth industry in their strongest market. Right now, that's mobile card games with the strongest gasha mechanics not legally banned as a lottery.
metalslimer
Member
Really? I mean have I no doubt Nintendo would invest in ventures like that, but unless the guy was willing to axe like half of Ninendo's development they wouldn't be able to sustain the amount of studios they own this way. Like I said, I can buy the idea that replacing Iwata won't magically fix the problems at Nintendo, but on the other hand people paint this dystopian future of Nintendo without Iwata like Iwata is the safeguard at Nintendo from complete degradation.
You see there is still an if in that sentence. Who is to say that Nintendo won't hire someone for the long term future of Nintendo's online initiatives, relationships with 3rd parties, and developing games though a much different structure than normal methods. Even if Nintendo did go the way of GREE when it didn't work out they would quickly try something different. The Yamauchi era Nintendo is certainly painted as archaic and unwillingly to change, but the DS which went into development under Yamauchi was certainly a huge risk that threatened their entire place in the handheld sector.
To me the problem isn't Iwata or any one person.
Again its their whole philosophy which pre dates Iwata.
To compete and or win we all know what they have to do. They don't have to have the best tech for graphics and visuals but it can't be lagging so far behind. And while they themselves might never want to make "hardcore" games, namely shooters which btw sucks because I am sure they could make amazing software in any genre, they have to attract 2nd or 3rd party developers to do so. You also can't have such a weak launch followed by a weaker drought of software.
Its all things everyone in the industry knows. Banking on innovation each cycle isn't going to work because not all innovations are going to take off like motion controls.
I don't think its all over for them. Sure they will finish #3 in the race but they won't also take a hit per console sold like MS and Sony most likely will. And once the software does pick up the base should expand and hopefully at worst they can still get shitty 3rd party ports to build around their own AAA titles.
But again they can't be the sole providers of software for their own hardware. Spread to thin. They need more 2nd parties with varying talents so they can at least ask them to make games which they themselves can't make.
I can see a completely different picture in a years time if they manage to release Mario Kart with a great online multiplayer setup along side the WW remake and one other big title this fall. Keeping fingers crossed that its a great FPS by Retro!
Again its their whole philosophy which pre dates Iwata.
To compete and or win we all know what they have to do. They don't have to have the best tech for graphics and visuals but it can't be lagging so far behind. And while they themselves might never want to make "hardcore" games, namely shooters which btw sucks because I am sure they could make amazing software in any genre, they have to attract 2nd or 3rd party developers to do so. You also can't have such a weak launch followed by a weaker drought of software.
Its all things everyone in the industry knows. Banking on innovation each cycle isn't going to work because not all innovations are going to take off like motion controls.
I don't think its all over for them. Sure they will finish #3 in the race but they won't also take a hit per console sold like MS and Sony most likely will. And once the software does pick up the base should expand and hopefully at worst they can still get shitty 3rd party ports to build around their own AAA titles.
But again they can't be the sole providers of software for their own hardware. Spread to thin. They need more 2nd parties with varying talents so they can at least ask them to make games which they themselves can't make.
I can see a completely different picture in a years time if they manage to release Mario Kart with a great online multiplayer setup along side the WW remake and one other big title this fall. Keeping fingers crossed that its a great FPS by Retro!
Because if they wanted a stable hand on the tiller they would KEEP IWATA. Especially because his target condition is $1bn profit. Not a successful NN launch, not a third-party multimillion seller in each region this holiday season, $1,000,000,000 in cold hard cash.
If he's out the door because he didn't meet that goal, it's because he's getting replaced with someone who will.
Do you know Nintendo very well? You can take all their Western developers that have released first-party projects. Monster Games, Retro Studios, Next-Level Games, Headstrong Games, Nintendo Software Technology... they are all releasing "typical" Nintendo IP games. Luigi's Mansion 2, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Punch Our, etc. Your theory has nothing to do with the developers, the bottom-line is Nintendo feels financial comfortable publishing certain types of games.
Nintendo is not SONY. SONY will invest into their developers original ideas, Nintendo is not so interested.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
With the exception of Mario Galaxy, I think GameCube was better than Wii for Nintendo first party. And even if you disagree, it isn't a controversial viewpoint.
I think Nintendo's first-party GameCube software was the weakest. The N64 and Wii were much stronger.
metalslimer
Member
Nintendo seemed to take more risks first party wise in the Gamecube generation, but a lot of the games ended up rushed and not so great in execution. There are things I miss about that era Nintendo as I doubt current Nintendo would invest in a reinvention like Metroid Prime (although i doubt most companies would either), and there other things I don't miss. I guess considering time period Nintendo's 64 1st party was strong, but judging them now rare collectathons are boring as hell to me. A point about the N64 and Gamecube is that Nintendo has a much great western presence during those days with Rare (of course), Silicon Knights, and Factor 5 and even investing and buying Retro. They seem to have shifted much more japanese in this regard during the latter days of the gamecube and going into the wii.
I think it was Kajima or someone who said this earlier, but Wii U seems to be the logical consequence of where Nintendo was heading with their consoles if the Wii had never existed. And without that spark that ignited the Wii, Nintendo's console presence becomes very limited.So now it seems Nintendo has to start from square 1 and try and fix many of those problems that have been plaguing Nintendo for over a decade, and honestly I just don't think Iwata is the person to lead them through this because many of these problems have existed throughout the Wii era with Nintendo doing nothing to fix them because they were so successful. The Wii seemed to essentially be a temporary bandaid.
I think it was Kajima or someone who said this earlier, but Wii U seems to be the logical consequence of where Nintendo was heading with their consoles if the Wii had never existed. And without that spark that ignited the Wii, Nintendo's console presence becomes very limited.So now it seems Nintendo has to start from square 1 and try and fix many of those problems that have been plaguing Nintendo for over a decade, and honestly I just don't think Iwata is the person to lead them through this because many of these problems have existed throughout the Wii era with Nintendo doing nothing to fix them because they were so successful. The Wii seemed to essentially be a temporary bandaid.
The Silver
Member
The Wii U is every problem Nintendo's had since the N64 all rolled up into one console.
Oh I see.
They'll need to shrink like crazy in order to pursue such a business model, though.
I mean, nothing stops Nintendo from investing in such a model alongside their consoles.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Critically, Nintendo games have been as good now as they always have been. If there was/is a problem with the Wii, the DS, the 3DS, or the WiiU, it certainly isn't "Nintendo games are worse now then they were on the Gamecube." If anything, it is/was "There needs to be MORE Nintendo games on these systems so people will buy them."
Of course, I keep forgetting that some of the people in this thread advocating so heavily for Iwata to be canned are people who want it that way because "Nintendo doesn't make games that I like!!!11111".
In that scenario they would either get out of consoles or revert to a much more conservative scenario where they can rapidly reach profitability on each hardware unit sold. Which is what they did with the Wii in response to the Gamecube. That was kind of the irony of the Wii, it was at once very risky but at the same time very conservative.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Seems kind of ironic to me, but taking Nintendo purely on their own terms, Wii U does a lot to start addressing the problems Nintendo's had. They discovered the internets, even if issues remain to be sorted. They're trying, once more, to establish a kind of Nintendo eco-system and community that buys mindshare. The kind they really haven't had since the NES and SNES days. (Talking about the social aspects like Miiverse, here.) The hardware is powerful enough to produce impressive games in both scope and technically - again, on Nintendo's own terms. It supports as wide a variety of input methods and gaming modes as frankly, anything outside the PC does.
The challenge now is to use that as a foundation to build... something. Whatever that something might be.
In a certain sense I often wonder if Nintendo is merely trying to survive what's going on with the game console world and what many game fans would see as the traditional game market. Isn't it kind of true that, should they hang in their long enough, convergence of technologies will make the game console horse race irrelevant anyway? Many say Wii U will be Nintendo's last console. Will that matter, if Durango and Orbis are also the last game consoles as anyone would recognize a console.
A pyrrhic last laugh for Nintendo - but any laugh Iwata can walk away from is a good laugh , I figure.
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