Support NeoGAF

[Tenki]

The 3DS is failing everywhere but in its home country.
The Wii U is failing everywhere.

Iwata reeks of failure. He should take a shower.

I don't see how can 30 million consoles in 2 years be a failure, sorry.

Last year we got Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D Land during Christmas, this year the only game was Paper Mario. It's not strange there were less sales.

2013 has a pretty strong line-up for 3DS, with Pokémon as the main selling point. It's going to do great.

And you can't compare it to the DS. The market has changed and every single console you compare to DS is a failure.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

I'm also sick of Nintendo half-assing all their games. As a concept, Nintendoland is brilliant. Imagine a real-time online, evolving, virtual Nintendo theme park populated by real people: walking around, chatting, competing in games. You would navigate a huge theme park style "over world" full of little side quests and easter eggs. Then pop into the main attractions to compete with friends or strangers. There could be leaderboards and trophies. They could have monthly official competitions with digital prizes from the eShop. Yiy could win virtual cons in buy in game prizes and costumes for your mii.

But no, we get a theme park the size of my bedroom with generic player status messages and offline play. There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.

It makes me sad. The industry needs Nintendo because no one else makes the kind of games Nintendo used to make. Now quit fucking around and make some goddamn good games!

:'(

There are no words. No mention of the actual gameplay, just how its presentation is lacking. Then the deep, challenging games, most of which that feature never or rarely seen game designs, are toss away with an offhand about have they're old and stale.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I don't know how can 30 million consoles in 2 years be a failure, sorry.

Last year we got Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D Land during Christmas, this year the only game was Paper Mario. It's not strange there were less sales.

2013 has a pretty strong line-up for 3DS, with Pokémon as the main selling point. It's going to do great.

And you can't compare it to the DS. The market has changed and every single console you compare to DS is a failure.

sshhh. Don't spoil the narrative.
It's a pretty beautiful story, where Nintendo rises and falls because of its arrogance. Don't spoil it with unromantic facts.

 

[Tobor]

Isn't "failure" a bit hyperbolic? And by "a bit" I mean "a lot".

No, not even a bit. He has failed, and is driving Nintendo towards oblivion.

 

[Rehynn]

I'm also sick of Nintendo half-assing all their games.
...
There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.
...
It makes me sad. The industry needs Nintendo because no one else makes the kind of games Nintendo used to make. Now quit fucking around and make some goddamn good games!

OK, at this point you're Clint Eastwood and Nintendo is the chair.

How was Xenoblade half-assed? How was Skyward Sword half-assed? 3D Land? FE Awakening? MK7? NSMB U (look beyond the "facade" please - the thing has amazing design and remarkable content for a platformer) How were they not (arguably) "goddamn good games?" How did they have no imagination?

It's not like your ideas for improving NLand are the most imaginative and innovative either, they're pretty much the first things that come to mind.

 

[memecomplex]

Probably the only time I'll start caring about Ninty again is when I have my own kids.

 

[Baconsammy]

No, not even a bit. He has failed, and is driving Nintendo towards oblivion.

Good, Nintendo needs more Western games.

 

[XenodudeX]

The 3DS is failing everywhere but in its home country.

There goes that false narrative again. We'll be hearing this bullshit all year unfortunately.

 

[Tenki]

No, not even a bit. He has failed, and is driving Nintendo towards oblivion.

Being the best sold gaming device this new gen? Sure :lol

 

[PhantomR]

It makes me sad. The industry needs Nintendo because no one else makes the kind of games Nintendo used to make. Now quit fucking around and make some goddamn good games!

Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 are the highest and 3rd highest reviewed games of all time, for a reason. Methinks you did not play either of those two games to make a statement tlike that.

 

[chadderbox77]

Probably the only time I'll start caring about Ninty again is when I have my own kids.

And they will love it.

 

[maquiladora]

I'm also sick of Nintendo half-assing all their games. As a concept, Nintendoland is brilliant. Imagine a real-time online, evolving, virtual Nintendo theme park populated by real people: walking around, chatting, competing in games. You would navigate a huge theme park style "over world" full of little side quests and easter eggs. Then pop into the main attractions to compete with friends or strangers. There could be leaderboards and trophies. They could have monthly official competitions with digital prizes from the eShop. Yiy could win virtual cons in buy in game prizes and costumes for your mii.

But no, we get a theme park the size of my bedroom with generic player status messages and offline play. There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.

It makes me sad. The industry needs Nintendo because no one else makes the kind of games Nintendo used to make. Now quit fucking around and make some goddamn good games!

This. Come on Nintendo. Wii U sales are looking awful and the future is grim unless something changes. Give people the games that will make them want to own a Wii U along with their PS4/Durango. Now is the time to capture our imagination with bold new IP's.

 

[Dragon]

Being the best sold gaming device this new gen? Sure :lol

Have you seen their financials lately?

 

[Schnozberry]

Probably the only time I'll start caring about Ninty again is when I have my own kids.

I have a gaming PC and a Wii U/3DS for that reason alone. Playing Luigi's Ghost Mansion with my daughter is amazing, and I'm really only going to get that experience with a Nintendo console. Microsoft is trying to an extent with Kinect, but all the games for it pretty well blow ass unless you want to lay down some cardboard and break dance.

 

[airmangataosenai]

There goes that false narrative again. We'll be hearing this bullshit all year unfortunately.

It goes both ways though. Fans have been trying for the past year to prop up the 3DS as a significant success to point to as an example of how things could turn around for the Wii U. That turnaround never really happened, 3DS slipped below 100k once yes, but just barely. It was never a total failure but it is far from what anyone could consider a success, whether or not it will even match the PSP is still up in the air.

 

[XenodudeX]

eh, never mind

 

[Baconsammy]

There goes that false narrative again. We'll be hearing this bullshit all year unfortunately.

Refute it then. The problem is you can't. When the company setting the bar for success has to keep lowering their own bar, that's a failure. You can stamp your feet, put your fingers in your ears and pretend it isn't happening, but Nintendo's marketshare in both the console and handheld space is contracting. Some of that is due to the market itself evolving/changing, but a big part of it is Nintendo themselves. Cheap hardware built around a bad gimmick, a slew of overpriced games, and no account system to speak of to save your digital purchases. They're not just behind the competition today when it comes to handling digital purchases. They're behind the competition 8 years ago.

 

[skypunch]

Nintendo is failing because of a lack of imagination in their software creation. Where is the Pokemon MMO people have been clamouring for? Where is the Metroid Prime FPS with awesome online multiplayer? Where is the online multiplayer F-Zero sequel with highly customizable vehicles? Why no online Smash Bros at launch? Why no refreshed and updated "Nintendo" Kart? Give us a new Advanced Wars with online play. How about a new Star Fox with amazing 100 ship dogfights?

Oh and stop already with the remakes. I'd rather have 1 new innovative game than 3 Super Metroid All-star U editions. Give us the old games as is on virtual console and move on.

Give it a break. Video games take time to develop, those games will come. I admit, a killer app should have been released with Wii U on day one, but there's no need to act like a spoilt, rich daddy's girl about it.

 

[optimiss]

:'(

There are no words. No mention of the actual gameplay, just how its presentation is lacking. Then the deep, challenging games, most of which that feature never or rarely seen game designs, are toss away with an offhand about have they're old and stale.

Really? I find most of the mini games to be boring and repetitive. Even tedious, due to the unintuitive control schemes (Metroid for example). Play mechanics like those in balloon fight are never fun IMO. F-zero is so neutered and uninteresting. Maybe I've just playing games so long that it takes more to impress me.

 

[Schnozberry]

Have you seen their financials lately?

Have you seen Sony and Microsoft's? They lost 8 billion dollars combined on the PS3/360, and will likely be losing money on the next consoles as well, at least initially on the hardware. Nintendo was mega profitable until recently, and they have plenty of cash reserves to help them through tough times.

They aren't dead yet. If Wii U continues to struggle through the next Holiday Season, they'll probably have to reconsider their business model.

 

[Rehynn]

This. Come on Nintendo. Wii U sales are looking awful and the future is grim unless something changes. Give people the games that will make them want to own a Wii U along with their PS4/Durango. Now is the time to capture our imagination with bold new IP's.

"This"? (S)he wants Pokémon, F-Zero, SSB, Advanced (sic) Wars, Metroid Prime, and Kart. So bold new IPs or fanservice then?

 

[optimiss]

"This"? (S)he wants Pokémon, F-Zero, SSB, Advanced (sic) Wars, Metroid Prime, and Kart. So bold new IPs or fanservice then?

Bold new ideas for classic franchises.

 

[XenodudeX]

Refute it then. The problem is you can't. When the company setting the bar for success has to keep lowering their own bar, that's a failure. You can stamp your feet, put your fingers in your ears and pretend it isn't happening, but Nintendo's marketshare in both the console and handheld space is contracting. Some of that is due to the market itself evolving/changing, but a big part of it is Nintendo themselves. Cheap hardware built around a bad gimmick, a slew of overpriced games, and no account system to speak of to save your digital purchases. They're not just behind the competition today when it comes to handling digital purchases. They're behind the competition 8 years ago.

I don't have to do anything. I'll let the steady sales speak for themselves.

I consider the Wii U failing. I consider the vita failing. 3DS, however, is not. It can do much much better though.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I'm also sick of Nintendo half-assing all their games. As a concept, Nintendoland is brilliant. Imagine a real-time online, evolving, virtual Nintendo theme park populated by real people: walking around, chatting, competing in games. You would navigate a huge theme park style "over world" full of little side quests and easter eggs. Then pop into the main attractions to compete with friends or strangers. There could be leaderboards and trophies. They could have monthly official competitions with digital prizes from the eShop. Yiy could win virtual cons in buy in game prizes and costumes for your mii.

But no, we get a theme park the size of my bedroom with generic player status messages and offline play. There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.

I was with you up until the stale mini games part. I've never sat anyone down in front of it and not had fun. Multiplayer sessions are a blast, and some of the games work well as old school score attacks.

 

[Tenki]

Have you seen their financials lately?

Have you seen their 1B profit goal for this year?

 

[Schnozberry]

Bold new ideas for classic franchises.

3D Mario plus whatever Retro has been cooking should be enough for this Holiday, I would think. It helped the 3DS quite a bit.

 

[Cheebo]

Have you seen their 1B profit goal for this year?

Nintendo of the past few years has proven they have no ability to meet any of their financial goals. There is no reason to suddenly start believing them now.

 

[bart64]

What a misleading title. He said he would resign if his plan doesn't pan out. I wish more executives had this mentality.

 

[Tobor]

Refute it then. The problem is you can't. When the company setting the bar for success has to keep lowering their own bar, that's a failure. You can stamp your feet, put your fingers in your ears and pretend it isn't happening, but Nintendo's marketshare in both the console and handheld space is contracting. Some of that is due to the market itself evolving/changing, but a big part of it is Nintendo themselves. Cheap hardware built around a bad gimmick, a slew of overpriced games, and no account system to speak of to save your digital purchases. They're not just behind the competition today when it comes to handling digital purchases. They're behind the competition 8 years ago.

Exactly, and the mobile barbarians at the gate aren't going away. They need to re-examine their business model and make big changes.

 

[DashReindeer]

I'm also sick of Nintendo half-assing all their games. As a concept, Nintendoland is brilliant. Imagine a real-time online, evolving, virtual Nintendo theme park populated by real people: walking around, chatting, competing in games. You would navigate a huge theme park style "over world" full of little side quests and easter eggs. Then pop into the main attractions to compete with friends or strangers. There could be leaderboards and trophies. They could have monthly official competitions with digital prizes from the eShop. Yiy could win virtual cons in buy in game prizes and costumes for your mii.

But no, we get a theme park the size of my bedroom with generic player status messages and offline play. There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.

It makes me sad. The industry needs Nintendo because no one else makes the kind of games Nintendo used to make. Now quit fucking around and make some goddamn good games!

The problem really isn't that Nintendo doesn't make good games, it's that their good games just aren't ambitious enough. I loved Nintendo Land, but there was so much more they could have done with the premise.

 

[ASIS]

I don't see how can 30 million consoles in 2 years be a failure, sorry.

Last year we got Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D Land during Christmas, this year the only game was Paper Mario. It's not strange there were less sales.

2013 has a pretty strong line-up for 3DS, with Pokémon as the main selling point. It's going to do great.

And you can't compare it to the DS. The market has changed and every single console you compare to DS is a failure.

Numbers mean nothing without context.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Hmm, I'll just throw this here. I don't really think Nintendo or even we ourselves really understand the Wii phenomenon. It's probably a discussion we should get deeper into sometime.

Here's a list of Wii million sellers from Wikipedia. These are world wide sales.

According to destructoid, Nintendo said at an investors meeting that Wii had 79 million sellers. Not sure what all those games are. I believe this was mentioned before Donkey Kong Country Returns and Super Mario All Stars, etc, showed up.

I know within Wii's launch and first year there were success stories with titles like Super Swing Golf (Pangya), Trauma Center Second Opinion (Atlus' best selling game ever before Catherine/Demon Souls, I think), and Resident Evil 4: Wii edition (didn't this sell better than the GameCube game?).

Not sure about Elebits, but Dewy was made by the same team so I guess that was a success too.

Some titles flopped, but I doubt titles like Soul Calibur Legends would've been doing gangbusters on any other platform. Wii got a lot of spin-offs and shovelware and sequels to those spin-offs and shovelware.

Problem with Wii was that the big new games stopped coming. After New Super Mario Bros. Wii/Just Dance 3 and Wii's biggest december holiday, and after retailers cracked down on the shovelware, there was Monster Hunter and then.... I don't know. Next big release wasn't till the end of that year with DKCR. Super Mario Galaxy 2 did okay, was a decline from the first Galaxy, and didn't do much for hardware and well that Metroid game that year was a joke so we'll forget about that one. Yeah, it was downhill from there. Mostly niche titles until Christmas. I believe Nintendo hoped Wii Party would sell, but that didn't happen. People were tired of the same stuff already. The year after that was just really bad with software support. PS3/360 were where the cool new games and gadgets (kinect) were at at that point and the prices were coming down.

 

[Rehynn]

Bold new ideas for classic franchises.

Bold new ideas like a Prime FPS with awesome online multiplayer, F-Zero with customizable vehicles, Nintendo Kart, online Advanced Wars, and Star Fox with 100-ship dogfights (which is not a dogfight but Samurai Warriors in space)?

 

[Tenki]

Nintendo of the past few years has proven they have no ability to meet any of their financial goals. There is no reason to suddenly start believing them now.

It's not like they're going to lose money this year if they made that goal.

 

[optimiss]

Bold new ideas like a Prime FPS with awesome online multiplayer, F-Zero with customizable vehicles, Nintendo Kart, online Advanced Wars, and Star Fox with 100-ship dogfights (which is not a dogfight but Samurai Warriors in space)?

Yeah. Sadly, that is definitely a new direction for Nintendo. They need to at least meet industry standards before they can be expected to surpass them.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Have you seen their 1B profit goal for this year?

i think it is an utterly optimistic goal. And by optimistic, I mean highly unlikely. Iwata is going all-in.
The results will be better, that's for sure. Just look at the games :
monster hunter 4
Pokemon X Y
Mario Kart U
3D Mario U

Only the known biggest games.

So Nintendo will see a significant rise in its profit next year compared to this one. But THIS high, i don't believe it.

 

[Shiggy]

Hmm, I'll just throw this here. I don't really think Nintendo or even we ourselves really understand the Wii phenomenon. It's probably a discussion we should get deeper into sometime.

Here's a list of Wii million sellers from Wikipedia. These are world wide sales.

According to destructoid, Nintendo said at an investors meeting that Wii had 79 million sellers. Not sure what all those games are. I believe this was mentioned before Donkey Kong Country Returns and Super Mario All Stars, etc, showed up.

I know within Wii's launch and first year there were success stories with titles like Super Swing Golf (Pangya), Trauma Center Second Opinion (Atlus' best selling game ever before Catherine/Demon Souls, I think), and Resident Evil 4: Wii edition (didn't this sell better than the GameCube game?).

Not sure about Elebits, but Dewy was made by the same team so I guess that was a success too.

Some titles flopped, but I doubt titles like Soul Calibur Legends would've been doing gangbusters on any other platform. Wii got a lot of spin-offs and shovelware and sequels to those spin-offs and shovelware.

Problem with Wii was that the big new games stopped coming. After New Super Mario Bros. Wii/Just Dance 3 and Wii's biggest december holiday, and after retailers cracked down on the shovelware, there was Monster Hunter and then.... I don't know. Next big release wasn't till the end of that year with DKCR. Super Mario Galaxy 2 did okay, was a decline from the first Galaxy, and didn't do much for hardware and well that Metroid game that year was a joke so we'll forget about that one. Yeah, it was downhill from there. Mostly niche titles until Christmas. I believe Nintendo hoped Wii Party would sell, but that didn't happen. People were tired of the same stuff already. The year after that was just really bad with software support. PS3/360 were where the cool new games and gadgets (kinect) were at at that point and the prices were coming down.

Wii Party was quite a success. So much that it was sold out during launch time in Europe and then sold as a stand alone title to get it out quickly. A sequel is coming to Wii U pretty soon ... seems like Nintendo is in panic mode though and the title didn't get a visual overhaul. (Looking at the footage again, the game looks pretty embarrassing for 2013)

 

[Spirit Icana]

Wii Party was quite a success. So much that it was sold out during launch time in Europe and then sold as a stand alone title to get it out quickly. A sequel is coming to Wii U pretty soon ... seems like Nintendo is in panic mode though and the title didn't get a visual overhaul. (Looking at the footage again, the game looks pretty embarrassing for 2013)

Oh really? I thought it only did well in Japan. Good to know then.

 

[Coloress_Kafka]

if you use the DS as a benchmark prepare to consider every system released this generation a failure.

Considering last year Nintendo used it as a benchmark for the 3DS seems perfectly fair to use it when 3DS isn't outperforming it.

 

[Gummb]

Note how the simplicity of the Wii controller was conducive to its massive popularity---it was simple, easy to understand, and sturdy.

It "just worked." You picked it up, and you "got it."

The Wii U replaces that philosophy with an asymmetric, bulky, isolating experience. If anything, it's the fundamentals behind the machine that contribute most to its failure.

I don't think it replaces it with an isolated experience, but a different kind of shared experience. It's more, "hey, we're together doing different things" rather than "we're all doing the same thing, yay!" While I agree that it is not as marketable, I think it will lead to better designs in game. Asymmetric gameplay has been my favorite part about the Wii U experience, and I think Nintendo has yet to explain or capitalize on it. We will see if they can't better explain their new ideas behind the Wii U, because they're fucking great ideas in my opinion.

 

[kinggroin]

Sucks because they used to do both.

Examples, please.

From what I've seen over the last few years, its more an issue keeping up with supporting both their platforms. This only exacerbated by moving to higher end hardware and attempting to meet expectations on a visual/audio level.

They are too small, and the task is too big.


Time to dig into that war chest to expand studios and genres so that we don't have to see them play it safe the way they've had to in "panic-mode".

 

[Tobor]

Considering last year Nintendo used it as a benchmark for the 3DS seems perfectly fair to use it when 3DS isn't outperforming it.

Right, and that same argument was made in plenty of threads here on GAF at the time.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I can't think of a single use for a second screen that would improve a game in a meaningful way. It's pretty much limited to local multiplayer games which I don't play anymore.

 

[Gummb]

I can't think of a single use for a second screen that would improve a game in a meaningful way. It's pretty much limited to local multiplayer games which I don't play anymore.

Well, it's a good thing you don't make games then!

It would depend on the game and what the developers did with it. A second screen is incredibly beneficial as the NDS and 3DS have shown.

 

[Cheebo]

It's not like they're going to lose money this year if they made that goal.

But no ones outside of Iwata really thinks they have any hope of hitting it. He isn't a trustworthy predictor of these things, he got 2012 and 2011 wrong.

 

[farnham]

But no ones outside of Iwata really thinks they have any hope of hitting it. He isn't a trustworthy predictor of these things, he got 2012 and 2011 wrong.

People can kick em out when its time right? He can do this year and if 3ds is still steugglingand wiiu is still irrelevant they can hire wadayoichi as their new prez

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Examples, please.

From what I've seen over the last few years, its more an issue keeping up with supporting both their platforms. This only exacerbated by moving to higher end hardware and attempting to meet expectations on a visual/audio level.

They are too small, and the task is too big.


Time to dig into that war chest to expand studios and genres so that we don't have to see them play it safe the way they've had to in "panic-mode".

Skyward Sword was tough to play coming off of 360 games. It looked like ass.

Examples? All Nintendo consoles up to the Wii.

Also, Galaxy and DKCR are exceptions. Most of the titles besides those left me wanting more cutting edge tech.

 

[Nekofrog]

Give it a break. Video games take time to develop, those games will come. I admit, a killer app should have been released with Wii U on day one, but there's no need to act like a spoilt, rich daddy's girl about it.

Nintendo abandoned the Wii years ago. They've had AGES to develop killer titles for the Wii U. They've done nothing. They thought they could ride on the Wii brand until instant success, just like they thought they could do the same with the DS brand.

Iwata has to go. He is 1. Incompetent. 2. So up his own ass he can't see what's really going on in the industry

 

[Gummb]

Nintendo abandoned the Wii years ago. They've had AGES to develop killer titles for the Wii U. They've done nothing. They thought they could ride on the Wii brand until instant success, just like they thought they could do the same with the DS brand.

Iwata has to go. He is 1. Incompetent. 2. So up his own ass he can't see what's really going on in the industry

There is no evidence of them "riding their console brands to success" theory, as Nintendo has invested significant resources in expanding their development studios all while their output continues to outperform any other publisher in quality and quantity. The largest problem is Nintendo's dedication to quality at the cost of time. Pikmin 3, Wii Fit U, The Wonderful 101, and Lego City Undercover all should have been released by now by Nintendo's original schedule. So while you are right in saying that "they've had AGES to develop killer titles for the Wii U," you are wrong in saying that "they've done nothing."

I hate it and the gaming community hates it, but Nintendo is still hard at work and certainly never simply relaxed. If having Iwata means better game quality at the cost of time, I am happy he is President.

 

[royalan]

Nintendo abandoned the Wii years ago. They've had AGES to develop killer titles for the Wii U. They've done nothing. They thought they could ride on the Wii brand until instant success, just like they thought they could do the same with the DS brand.

Iwata has to go. He is 1. Incompetent. 2. So up his own ass he can't see what's really going on in the industry

Exactly.

Nintendo was in the most enviable position imaginable this gen. While the rest of the industry struggled and failed and experimented with the move to HD gaming, Nintendo was able to continue making record-breaking profits with safe hardware. They were in a prime position to observe the industry of the last few years, make note of what worked and what didn't; who failed in the transition and who didn't; and who succeeded and who didn't. And all the while not having to take the risk themselves.

If Iwata were smart, he would have noticed that most Japanese dev houses that waited until HD arrived to really learn how to develop HD games were plagued with problems, and he would have noticed that western developers who had a background in PC development were flourishing. If Iwata were smart, he would have noticed that all the developers who were succeeding were the ones who had their tools and production pipeline in order: sturdy, in-house, HD-ready engines and an efficient asset production pipeline.

Iwata should been spending the last 4 years cherry picking all the little bits of successful strategy from everyone else to put together a perfect HD console launch. The components were there. This could have happened. But it didn't, and it's like Iwata really thought Nintendo would be given a pass for struggling the same way the rest of the industry did 7 fucking years ago.

That oversight alone is enough reason for him to go. How can you trust this man to have a vision for the future after a colossal fuck-up like that?