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[The Technomancer]

But no, we get a theme park the size of my bedroom with generic player status messages and offline play. There is no innovation. No imagination. Just a paper facade for the same old stale mini games.

I don't...I just don't get how anyone can say this. Just last night three other friends and I played NintendoLand for like three hours and between three and eight of us have been doing that weekly for over three months now. Stale is not a word I would use to describe them.

 

[Brera]

If Iwata was a smart guy, he would blame reggie and sack the useless oaf instead,

 

[Knux-Future]

I'm seriously glad that most of you guys don't call shots anywhere....

I don't want to think of what Nintendo would be like with some of you guys at the helm.


This is going to sound really elitist and perhaps I coudl word it better but seriously if you don't like Nintendo's stuff then you really shouldn've the one telling them what to do differently.

It just feels off. It's like me telling Activision how to change COD or something...

Nintendo fucked up with the WiiU (or so it seems I mean it's only been out for like 3 months). It's underpowered and such but firing Iwata over what honestly would be his first true failed console is nuts to me.

They'll figrue it out. Give the damn thing a year at least..geez

 

[Gummb]

Exactly.

Nintendo was in the most enviable position imaginable this gen. While the rest of the industry struggled and failed and experimented with the move to HD gaming, Nintendo was able to continue making record-breaking profits with safe hardware. They were in a prime position to observe the industry of the last few years, make note of what worked and what didn't; who failed in the transition and who didn't; and who succeeded and who didn't. And all the while not having to take the risk themselves.

If Iwata were smart, he would have noticed that most Japanese dev houses that waited until HD arrived to really learn how to develop HD games were plagued with problems, and he would have noticed that western developers who had a background in PC development were flourishing. If Iwata were smart, he would have noticed that all the developers who were succeeding were the ones who had their tools and production pipeline in order: sturdy, in-house, HD-ready engines and an efficient asset production pipeline.

Iwata should been spending the last 4 years cherry picking all the little bits of successful strategy from everyone else to put together a perfect HD console launch. The components were there. This could have happened. But it didn't, and it's like Iwata really thought Nintendo would be given a pass for struggling the same way the rest of the industry did 7 fucking years ago.

That oversight alone is enough reason for him to go. How can you trust this man to have a vision for the future after a colossal fuck-up like that?

Obviously they needed more time, probably about 6 months, because those components were ready only 6 months before launch (when perhaps they should have been available 1 year before launch). I think the Wii U should have released this March with a consistent stream of content like you imagine in your post above. However, there was probably significant stress and expectation to launch it for the holidays. I still don't think this means Iwata should be demoted. I want to see what his vision is for the Wii U before I make final judgements.

 

[Row]

If Iwata was a smart guy, he would blame reggie and sack the useless oaf instead,

except reggie is basically just pr, and it's iwata who made all the bad decisions

 

[farnham]

If Iwata was a smart guy, he would blame reggie and sack the useless oaf instead,

MADDOX IS BACK!

 

[Soul Beat]

But...Iwata's the Boss.

He can't just leave. ;(

 

[jcm]

It's not like they're going to lose money this year if they made that goal.

Last April they forecast a profit this year of 35 billion yen. Now they say they're going to lose 20 billion yen. They did the same thing the year before. Taking a Nintendo forecast at face value is a mug's game.

 

[royalan]

I'm seriously glad that most of you guys don't call shots anywhere....

I don't want to think of what Nintendo would be like with some of you guys at the helm.


This is going to sound really elitist and perhaps I coudl word it better but seriously if you don't like Nintendo's stuff then you really shouldn've the one telling them what to do differently.

It just feels off. It's like me telling Activision how to change COD or something...

Nintendo fucked up with the WiiU (or so it seems I mean it's only been out for like 3 months). It's underpowered and such but firing Iwata over what honestly would be his first true failed console is nuts to me.

They'll figrue it out. Give the damn thing a year at least..geez

No, 3DS was his first failed console (handheld).

He turned its fortunes around (although not completely in the US), but from a business standpoint I don't think you guys can continue downplaying the fact that he practically had to put the house up for sale to do it.

 

[JordanN]

I'm seriously glad that most of you guys don't call shots anywhere....

I don't want to think of what Nintendo would be like with some of you guys at the helm.


This is going to sound really elitist and perhaps I coudl word it better but seriously if you don't like Nintendo's stuff then you really shouldn've the one telling them what to do differently.

It just feels off. It's like me telling Activision how to change COD or something...

Nintendo fucked up with the WiiU (or so it seems I mean it's only been out for like 3 months). It's underpowered and such but firing Iwata over what honestly would be his first true failed console is nuts to me.

They'll figrue it out. Give the damn thing a year at least..geez

I'm a consumer. I should be expecting only the very best. It's my money that's keeping Iwata in his chair.

All I ask for is some third party games and beastly hardware. I don't think that's asking for much considering the billions of dollars Nintendo has.

 

[erlim]

I don't think he's really at risk, Nintendo always finds a way.

 

[Gummb]

I'm a consumer. I should be expecting only the very best. It's my money that's keeping Iwata in his chair.

All I ask for is some third party games and beastly hardware. I don't think that's asking for much considering the billions of dollars Nintendo has.

So get the next Xbox and PS4...

 

[farnham]

No, 3DS was his first failed console (handheld).

He turned its fortunes around (although not completely in the US), but from a business standpoint I don't think you guys can continue downplaying the fact that he practically had to put the house up for sale to do it.

he made the first loss in nintendos history yes.. but that doesnt mean he put the house up for sale.

 

[Tobor]

I'm seriously glad that most of you guys don't call shots anywhere....

I don't want to think of what Nintendo would be like with some of you guys at the helm.


This is going to sound really elitist and perhaps I coudl word it better but seriously if you don't like Nintendo's stuff then you really shouldn've the one telling them what to do differently.

It just feels off. It's like me telling Activision how to change COD or something...

Nintendo fucked up with the WiiU (or so it seems I mean it's only been out for like 3 months). It's underpowered and such but firing Iwata over what honestly would be his first true failed console is nuts to me.

They'll figrue it out. Give the damn thing a year at least..geez

This is a message board. We're discussing a topic and sharing opinions. If you aren't interested in debating this subject, try another thread.

 

[JordanN]

So get the next Xbox and PS4...

Those consoles aren't even out yet.

Also, PS4 and the next Xbox don't play Mario (or any of Nintendo's first party offering).

Edit: It's pretty sad the solution being offered is paying more than $500.

 

[Gummb]

Those consoles aren't even out yet.

Also, PS4 and the next Xbox don't play Mario (or any of Nintendo's first party offering).

Then get a Nintendo Wii U

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Iwata has to go. He is 1. Incompetent.

lol no

 

[Brera]

except reggie is basically just pr, and it's iwata who made all the bad decisions

Exactly.

Blame Reggie and sack him for all their problems. Or if he was really balling, he'd blame Miyamoto...cos you know....it really is his fault!

 

[AzaK]

Note how the simplicity of the Wii controller was conducive to its massive popularity---it was simple, easy to understand, and sturdy.

It "just worked." You picked it up, and you "got it."

The Wii U replaces that philosophy with an asymmetric, bulky, isolating experience. If anything, it's the fundamentals behind the machine that contribute most to its failure.

You obviously haven't played Nintendo LAnd with others or you wouldn't say that. I've had as much fun with that with my family as I did Wii sports.

As a device that can sit as part of your entertainment I think the GamePad is awesome. TV remote, browser, off tv play, Nintendo TViiiiiiiiiiiiiii are all cool. However there's a few problems. Some gamers won't care, they just want games and if it can't be shown to add to those considerably then it seems like bad value. The gamer who maybe shares a TV or has a family will likely see more value in these non gaming features. However Nintendo are not advertising them.

It's like they have two audiences to market to but are trying to make there marketing dollars cover both and failing all around.

 

[JordanN]

Then get a Nintendo Wii U

Those games aren't running on beastly hardware.

 

[Gummb]

Those games aren't running on beastly hardware.

There you have it folks. I'm done.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Those games aren't running on beastly hardware.

Quite the dilemma we have here.

 

[metalslimer]

This is a message board. We're discussing a topic and sharing opinions. If you aren't interested in debating this subject, try another thread.

The amount of thread whining is directly proportional to how your console of choice is doing. If you don't like threads don't post in them.

Edit: Nintendo has 10 billion dollars to blow through, so Nintendo won't be in danger for a VERY long time.

 

[JordanN]

Quite the dilemma we have here.

Not really. Did you not read my first quote?

All I ask for is some third party games and beastly hardware.

At what point does Wii U do the latter?

 

[ASIS]

There you have it folks. I'm done.

I don't get it, what did you prove exactly?

 

[Knux-Future]

No, 3DS was his first failed console (handheld).

He turned its fortunes around (although not completely in the US), but from a business standpoint I don't think you guys can continue downplaying the fact that he practically had to put the house up for sale to do it.

If he turned it around then it's not a failure then....

Look the 3DS isn't going to sell crazy like the DS. That's obvious. The Market has changed especially over here in the US. But failure is a bit much.

I'm a consumer. I should be expecting only the very best. It's my money that's keeping Iwata in his chair.

All I ask for is some third party games and beastly hardware. I don't think that's asking for much considering the billions of dollars Nintendo has.

Then get a Ps4/Nextbox then...there are other options out there.

Not the two dudes I quoted but I really feel like this board is too damn negative lately.
cheer up.

 

[Gummb]

I don't get it, what did you prove exactly?

Only that there is no solution to his problem. Read it in succession:

"All I want are some third party games and beastly hardware"

- Answer to all he wants is to get the next Xbox or PS4

"Those Don't Play Mario"

- Answer to that is to buy a Wii U

"Those games don't play on beastly hardware"

- Well that fucking sucks dude.

Seriously, best of luck on your life endeavors.

 

[ASIS]

Only that there is no solution to his problem. Read it in succession:

"All I want are some third party games and beastly hardware"

- Answer to all he wants is to get the next Xbox or PS4

"Those Don't Play Mario"

- Answer to that is to buy a Wii U

"Those games don't play on beastly hardware"

- Well that fucking sucks dude.

Seriously, best of luck on your life endeavors.

which is why he's disappointed. He wasn't asking for a solution. He stated his expectations and requests versus what he got.

I'm also kinda in the same position.

 

[royalan]

he made the first loss in nintendos history yes.. but that doesnt mean he put the house up for sale.

-He had to actually APOLOGIZE to shareholders
-He had to accept a paycut
-He had to slash the price of the hardware by more than 30% before it had even been on the market 5 months. A move that looked desperate from ANY angle and possibly set a dangerous precedent of people not feeling secure buying Nintendo hardware early because a significant price cut could be mere months away if they sell badly enough.
-He had to rush titles to market. (So much for a "dedication to quality at the cost of time")
-He had to spam the Mario franchise like its never been spammed before.
-He had to release the ugliest add-on in the history of add-ons to address demands for a second analog stick that had been there since the original DS and by all means SHOULD HAVE BEEN there on the 3DS from day fucking 1.

I'm sorry, but put the house up for sale is exactly what he did. And, in most industries, a CEO wouldn't get to repeat that desperate tactic twice because they wouldn't be around to repeat it. Arguably the smartest move Sony made all gen was sacking Ken Kutaragi right at the start of the gen when his fuck-ups had become apparent so that they could get some fresh faces in to begin the fast-paced restructuring that no doubt saved them in the end.

But because Iwata is goofy, awkward, and looks like a "nice guy" people want him to stick around to keep repeating the same damn mistakes and run Nintendo into the ground?

 

[Glass Rebel]

Not really. Did you not read my first quote?

At what point does Wii U do the latter?

I did read it. You want to play first party games but you don't want them on Wii U. That's the dilemma.

 

[Knux-Future]

the 3ds is not a failure.

It's not the DS, sure.

But it's not a failure

 

[Mithos]

I did read it. You want to play first party games but you don't want them on Wii U. That's the dilemma.

My dilemma is the opposite, I want 3rd party games on the Wii U =(

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm seriously glad that most of you guys don't call shots anywhere....

Nintendo fucked up with the WiiU (or so it seems I mean it's only been out for like 3 months). It's underpowered and such but firing Iwata over what honestly would be his first true failed console is nuts to me.

They'll figure it out. Give the damn thing a year at least..geez

Thing is Nintendo's Bread and Butter is Video Games

They can't just figure it out

They got blessed with the Wii, and made fuck ton of money off it, yet now that money most likely will be squandered away trying to patch up the abomination that is the WiiU

How can you not have shit lined up

You saw how the PS3 stumbled out the gate, and that bitch was $250 more than your system 6 years ago

You allow 3rd parties to do whatever they want, which is up to NINty business practices, but it's a double edged sword
On one side no content coming to your machine on the other no license fees coming in either

Sony and MS have a huge backing from other parts of their business structure
They can lose the money, they can be cut-throat, they want to win your living room and the future dollars that will benefit them in the long run will eventually even or profit them out

What has NINty done to future proof it's machine, how can it lock in it's consumers and keep them satiated

No content for the foreseeable future (Heavy hitters), future games promises ala Nintendo Direct that are not ready and will take time and patience
The account management is one of the most archaic ways of setting up
It makes Konami and MGS Online look like kids play and that shit had double authentication on top of your PSN account...

I'll state again as someone here on GAF said

The WiiU was the right machine for Nintendo, but they got it backwards
The Gamepad was supposed to be the console, yes $350 built into that bitch
Take it anywhere with you
Rather than "Play Off" TV, it should've been "Play On"
A small dongle/box that streams the game to your HDTV, can use multiple dongles on multiple TV's
(Console/Handheld Hybrid)

Nintendo should survive this storm, but those sails will be heavily damaged, the repairs will be costly, and the closest place to repair is far away

 

[Gummb]

which is why he's disappointed. He wasn't asking for a solution. He stated his expectations and requests versus what he got.

I'm also kinda in the same position.

Well, then I guess you have a choice. Nintendo abandoned the arms race after the 'failed' Gamecube, so I guess I'm surprised that people expected them to reenter it under penalty of Iwata's job.

I guess my biggest problem is the assumption that more powerful hardware would have solved all of Nintendo's problems. The expense alone would have been detrimental, especially the software expenses moving from Wii. To say that Iwata got it wrong because they didn't develop beastly hardware is silly, in my opinion. It's ok to want it, but if you want it, you'll have to go elsewhere. However, if you want Nintendo's games, then get a Wii U.

 

[Knux-Future]

I hope they turn it around with the Wii U. I'll buy one for specific games (3D Mario and Smash mainly).

So hopefully those games impress. They will release some classics.

I think expecting them to repeat Wii level success is foolish tho.

 

[Rocket Punch]

3DS set a precedent on how NOT to do hardware launch. Nintendo themselves have said many times that they've learned the lessons from its poor initial performance to to make the point that such thing would not happen with the Wii U launch... Well, evidently that sure didn't make any difference as the Wii U launch is turning out to be a disaster.

I like Iwata, but as roy said, they were in a prime position to set the way for a successful HD machine and instead they decided to go quirky and difference, as always. They even boasted during the Wii life cycle how their evergreen titles were enough to sustain Wii's ecosystem... until the Wii plunged into irrelevance due to poor 3rd party support.

Now the trend continues with Wii U, but what's even more worrisome, some companies that did support the Wii early one are not so willing to do it on the Wii U. It does not bode well for Nintendo at all. And what's even more troubling is that the company, realizing this is happening does not see fit to release their own titles in a timely schedule, thus exacerbating the problem even further.

I like Iwata, but together with Reggie they may have to go for the company change its fortunes in a significant manner.

 

[Gummb]

-He had to rush titles to market. (So much for a "dedication to quality at the cost of time")

What titles were not of a high quality?

 

[Glass Rebel]

I'll state again as someone here on GAF said

The WiiU was the right machine for Nintendo, but they got it backwards
The Gamepad was supposed to be the console, yes $350 built into that bitch
Take it anywhere with you
Rather than "Play Off" TV, it should've been "Play On"
A small dongle/box that streams the game to your HDTV, can use multiple dongles on multiple TV's
(Console/Handheld Hybrid)

Nintendo should survive this storm, but those sails will be heavily damaged, the repairs will be costly, and the closest place to repair is far away

Next time. A 350$ handheld would have been around Vita-level in hardware, unacceptable for a home console.

 

[JordanN]

Well, then I guess you have a choice. Nintendo abandoned the arms race after the 'failed' Gamecube, so I guess I'm surprised that people expected them to reenter it under penalty of Iwata's job.

I guess my biggest problem is the assumption that more powerful hardware would have solved all of Nintendo's problems. The expense alone would have been detrimental, especially the software expenses moving from Wii. To say that Iwata got it wrong because they didn't develop beastly hardware is silly, in my opinion. It's ok to want it, but if you want it, you'll have to go elsewhere. However, if you want Nintendo's games, then get a Wii U.

This is what alot of people get wrong. Being more powerful would solve all the problems that plagues Nintendo that are because of power.

I've said it before, if hardware meant nothing, Nintendo would be making games for the NES only.

 

[Glass Rebel]

This is what alot of people get wrong. Being more powerful would solve all the problems that plagues Nintendo that are because of power.

I've said it before, if hardware meant nothing, Nintendo would be making games for the NES only.

It didn't work for the GameCube and there's no reason to believe it would have worked with the Wii U. And their problems aren't solely because of power.

 

[JordanN]

It didn't work for the GameCube and there's no reason to believe it would have worked with the Wii U. And their problems aren't solely because of power.

How did the PS3/360 end up with more support than the Wii? Why is Unreal Engine 3 not for the Wii?

All these problems are tied to power. To ignore it is to ignore reality itself.

And you're right power isn't solely the problem (I addressed it) but it's one that cannot be ignored (and Nintendo knows this).

 

[Gummb]

This is what alot of people get wrong. Being more powerful would solve all the problems that plagues Nintendo that are because of power.

I've said it before, if hardware meant nothing, Nintendo would be making games for the NES only.

I never said hardware meant nothing.

However, why did the Gamecube sell the least and arguably get the worst ports when it was powerful, capable of online, and had a fantastic controller? Are you so certain that more powerful hardware would have fixed all of Nintendo's problems? Or would it have prolonged their software development? Would it have fixed their image that people buy Nintendo's console for Nintendo's games? Would it have guaranteed excellent ports from all third party developers?

I don't think having more powerful hardware would have solved Nintendo's problems. If you do, then that's fine, but I think you're only looking at the Wii for precedent.

 

[Knux-Future]

A more powerful system would not solve Nintendo's problems.

I had a gamecube and due to the fact that most 3rd party games sold like shit on there the gamecube versions were often shit in comparison to even the ps2 which was less powerful.

Directly competing with the other two has very little benefits to Nintendo because most of the vanted 3rd party userbase would simply go to the other two consoles over Nintendo. I see why they have decided to go in different directions...mind you they could have found a way to do both but hey.

I'm not saying it wouldn't help their cause...cuz it would but it wouldn't solve all their issues.

 

[Gummb]

How did the PS3/360 end up with more support than the Wii? Why is Unreal Engine 3 not for the Wii?

All these problems are tied to power. To ignore it is to ignore reality itself.

And you're right power isn't solely the problem (I addressed it) but it's one that cannot be ignored (and Nintendo knows this).

Yeah, I'm definitely not following you when you write like this. Please, do tell me the reality of the situation. Please, do tell me what Nintendo knows.

 

[JordanN]

I never said hardware meant nothing.

I would of believed that until you said...

"
I don't think having more powerful hardware would have solved Nintendo's problems."

However, why did the Gamecube sell the least and arguably get the worst ports when it was powerful, capable of online, and had a fantastic controller?

Dumb marketing. Its power still allowed it to get games that its successor would miss out on (compared to its rivals).

 

[Glass Rebel]

How did the PS3/360 end up with more support than the Wii? Why is Unreal Engine 3 not for the Wii?

All these problems are tied to power. To ignore it is to ignore reality itself.

And you're right power isn't solely the problem (I addressed it) but it's one that cannot be ignored (and Nintendo knows this).

More power would have driven the price for the Wii up and made them lose on a big part of the audience that bought it thanks to the low price. Releasing a third samey console that directly competes with the PS3 and 360 was not an option coming from the GameCube which sold like shit. That's reality.

 

[JordanN]

More power would have driven the price for the Wii up and made them lose on a big part of the audience that bought it thanks to the low price.

So? This is a long term investment. Or, if Nintendo felt the price was bad they could of delayed the hardware till it was cheap enough (a la N64).

Releasing a third samey console that directly competes with the PS3 and 360 was not an option coming from the GameCube which sold like shit. That's reality.

Again, Gamecube sold bad based on bad marketing. It still received the games of its time the Wii never got against the PS3/360.

Plus, with the collapse of Sony this gen, Nintendo was more poised to take over than anything.

 

[Gummb]

I would of believed that until you said...

"
I don't think having more powerful hardware would have solved Nintendo's problems."


Dumb marketing. It's power still allowed it to get games that it's successor would miss out on (compared to its rivals).

-_-

I don't even know if it's worth responding at this point, but here we go...

The statement "I don't think having more powerful hardware would have solved Nintendo's problems" does not correlate to your accusation that I'm saying "hardware means nothing." Hardware obviously means a lot. Nintendo leveraging the Wii U gamepad with HD visuals means a lot. Microsoft and Sony leveraging beastly hardware means a lot. Ouya's leveraging its smaller $99 hardware means a lot. However, each will have its specific advantages and disadvantages. Nintendo having more powerful hardware would not be advantageous enough to guarantee profits and solve all of Nintendo's problems.

Second, Gamecube's marketing was an extension of what the hardware offered. Your argument that marketing killed the Gamecube has a lot to do with perception. Perhaps its the perception of the Wii U and its marketing that is hurting it, and not the hardware itself. Perhaps its because the Wii U is struggling, like the Gamecube did, to get software out on a regular basis. Perhaps the problems the Wii U is experiencing has nothing to do with the power of its hardware.

If you are not interested in a more complex argument than "Nintendo needs more powerful hardware" or "the Gamecube failed because of marketing," then I'm not debating this anymore. Sorry.

 

[royalan]

I never said hardware meant nothing.

However, why did the Gamecube sell the least and arguably get the worst ports when it was powerful, capable of online, and had a fantastic controller? Are you so certain that more powerful hardware would have fixed all of Nintendo's problems? Or would it have prolonged their software development? Would it have fixed their image that people buy Nintendo's console for Nintendo's games? Would it have guaranteed excellent ports from all third party developers?

I don't think having more powerful hardware would have solved Nintendo's problems. If you do, then that's fine, but I think you're only looking at the Wii for precedent.

Not true at all.

Gamecube got a lot of ports that were graphically on par with the other consoles or, even in some cases, better-looking than PS2.

The Gamecube was also not as capable online as even the PS2 that gen. This was more a situation where the feature was paid dust because Nintendo themselves didn't prioritize it.

A LOL @ the controller being fantasitic. Look, I thought the thing was comfortable and got a worse rap than it deserved; but let's not pretend that controller wasn't an issue for ports. It was.

Also, I don't think ANYBODY is saying power alone is the solution for Nintendo. Nobody is arguing that Nintendo needs to re-enter the graphics arms race again. However, at the very minimum they need to pay enough attention to the industry that the hardware they put out is on par with the general ballpark the rest of the industry is aiming for. They don't have to have the most powerful hardware; hell, it doesn't even have to be a close race. But they NEED to put out hardware that's powerful enough that 3rd parties don't have to consider Nintendo hardware a "separate entity" when it comes to ports. That's been the case for two gens now.

Honestly, I think Nintendo was closer to the ideal with the Gamecube than most want to give them credit for. The Gamecube was great hardware that was on par with the competition, easy to develop for, and STILL the cheapest. So I don't understand why people use the Gamecube to make the "power isn't everything" argument when it wasn't the power of the hardware that stunted the Gamecube. It was everything else - Nintendo's arrogant, overly conservative and dismissive business practices being at the top of the list of problems.

 

[Shion]

Nintendo does nothing to create a friendly environment for 3rd party publishers to support their consoles and, at the same time, they're still a relatively small company with limited recourses (the result is obvious). They don't have a diverse library of games to reach to the people who aren't Nintendo brand loyalists and they’re years behind the rest of the industry when it comes to hardware, online infrastructure and services.

Depending so much in gimmicks can only take you so far.

If your gimmick doesn't set the world on fire you're basically screwed.

So get the next Xbox and PS4...

There are some consumers who would like to play Zelda, Metroid (or whatever) without them looking like last-gen games.

Do the next Xbox and PS4 solve that?