Kotaku Rumor: PS4 out in November, control with your phone/tablet, maybe $429/529

I think Sony will leave for free just the basic features so the online multi and messaging as is this on the ps3 now.
I dubt the xgc will be free, even if it is on the Vita.

I've no problem if this will be the case, the thing i hope is that the price will be the same as the ps+ right now,whose i'm already a subscriber.
 
ThisWreckage said:
They'll build upon Playstation Plus. It was one of their best moments this generation. It's a truly great service. This comes down to pricing, really. I fully expect Live to go up in price yet again when this new generation starts, for example.
Click to expand...

UP in price? Fudge that. Online play on 720 (and PS4) needs to be free, or cheaper if anything. I know that's not feasible, but anything else and it'd just be unscrupulous imo.
 
nib95 said:
UP in price? Fudge that. Online play on 720 (and PS4) needs to be free, or cheaper if anything. I know that's not feasible, but anything else and it'd just be unscrupulous imo.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet Live goes up. It falls in line with what Microsoft has done in the past. They RAISED the price of Live this past generation and people gladly took that. They did it midway through the generation too.
 
plainr_ said:
Just imagine paying for two services.
Click to expand...

I would only pay for the one my friends used.

ThisWreckage said:
I'm willing to bet Live goes up. It falls in line with what Microsoft has done in the past. They RAISED the price of Live this past generation and people gladly took that. They did it midway through the generation too.
Click to expand...

That price increase only affected casual users. The average GAF'er still paid $30-$40.
 
Wolves Evolve said:
Sony will charge for PSWorld and online play, I think.

If Xbox Gold gets you:

- Online play
- Apps and Services
- More OS features

and PSWorld gets you

- Online play
- Apps and Services
- More OS features
- Streaming games from PS1/PS2/PS3 catalogue

You WILL NOT MIND playing a fee. That's how they'll get us.
Click to expand...

Free online is a big selling point to consumers. It didnt matter in the last generation because of the price difference/ year lead that 360 had. It doesn't make sense for Sony to charge you for something mandatory then give away free shit.

Adding online to PS+ completely changes the dynamic of playstation plus.

It makes sense for Sony to say "hey, buy our system it has free online. Buy PS+ for all this free shit and cool features". They get market share and money. If they pull a dick move and charge for online they wont pull any of the swing voters away from microsoft since they will have to pay for online either way.
 
OldJadedGamer said:
I would only pay for the one my friends used.



That price increase only affected casual users. The average GAF'er still paid $30-$40.
Click to expand...

The only ones used to pay are xbox users, so most ps users would probably skip a subsciption service just to play online.

btw, casual users are the ones that make install base huge and the ones that pay full price, so the ones that pay less for live are minority here.
 
$hady said:
They still screwed up the d-pad and left stick placement....
Click to expand...

The vita dpad is perfect. Stick placement is personal but the fact the sticks are now further apart makes it millions of times better than the traditional DualShock design.
 
I figured it out:
"Orbis is also following the path first set by Xbox Live: our source says "most" of the PS4's online features will require a premium subscription to use."

Paid:
Apps
Playing Games
Discounts on games
Gaikai

Free:
Checks if game is used
 
im a ps+ sub but I'd still refuse to get the next playstation if they make online play part of their subscription, just out of principle
 
In reality, it's all about value. If you bought a PS4 for $5 and then had to pay $5 a month for 2 years to keep it, most people would because it's a good value. If you bought a PS4 for $500 and then had to pay $50 a month, that's a different story. Paying for online doesn't necessarily equal evil. It just depends on the whole package.
 
nib95 said:
Why on Earth would I want a $1000 console?
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The WiiU cost roughly ~$300 to make with free online. You're complaining about $400 plus paid online when the system likely costs more than that to make. If you don't want to pay for online, then get a WiiU. Otherwise, the subscription is probably a necessary evil so Sony doesn't bleed red from these consoles.
 
nib95 said:
The fact that you've paid $400 for a console, and $60 for the game, should automatically omit you from having to pay another $60 just to play it online. It's a farce.
Click to expand...

If this is the way you perceive the world I have bad news for you.

Pretty much every business is doing this one way or another even owning a car requires you to pay personal property and insurance to continue using it.

SmokeMaxX said:
In reality, it's all about value. If you bought a PS4 for $5 and then had to pay $5 a month for 2 years to keep it, most people would because it's a good value. If you bought a PS4 for $500 and then had to pay $50 a month, that's a different story. Paying for online doesn't necessarily equal evil. It just depends on the whole package.
Click to expand...

$125 to keep a PS4, seems legit.

You're comparing buying a product to paying for a service, a product is bought once and requires a single payment. On the other hand a service is continual and requires continual payments for it to stay profitable.

I'm not justifying Xbox Live's price but some of the comparisons and ideas here are laughable.
 
SmokeMaxX said:
In reality, it's all about value. If you bought a PS4 for $5 and then had to pay $5 a month for 2 years to keep it, most people would because it's a good value. If you bought a PS4 for $500 and then had to pay $50 a month, that's a different story. Paying for online doesn't necessarily equal evil. It just depends on the whole package.
Click to expand...

That I can agree with. It depends on the span of the console, the specs, games etc. If they charged $100 for the console and $60 a year for the rest, I'd be ok with that. 5 x $60 is $300 which would roughly cover the original $400 total. 5 years is a reasonable amount of time to expect a new console to offer value within.


FordGTGuy said:
If this is the way you perceive the world I have bad news for you.

Pretty much every business is doing this one way or another even owning a car requires you to pay personal property and insurance to continue using it.
Click to expand...

I've never really been much for credit, interest etc. About the only thing I can't avoid paying it on is the mortgage. But it's not fair to lumber in Insurance and MOT etc in with cars, because those are necessities out of safety and security, not just for yourself, but everyone else out there too.

With my phone (Galaxy S3), I pay £30 a month for unlimited minutes, texts and data, and I got the phone for free on release. Over my 18 month contract that works out to £540, which was still less than was charged for the phone sim free at release (£600). I'll generally try and seek the best value for money with all purchases. At the end of the day we talk with our wallets.
 
Phat Michael said:
yeah - i can afford a $500 console but i sure as hell cant afford $6 a month for online!
Click to expand...


By that logic why not add another ripoff tax if you can afford it. Let's call it the single player subscription where you'd pay to be allowed to play single player games. That will be cheap, only $4 per month! Since you can afford it why not?
 
Phat Michael said:
yeah - i can afford a $500 console but i sure as hell cant afford $6 a month for online!
Click to expand...

Woah dude you're so rich and cool, being able to shrug off 6 bucks a month. Us entitled babies living in our parents' basements with limited allowance sure are jelly.

or from the sane side of the fence anyone proud to pay an arbitrary fee to play the games that you already paid for online comes across as a tool
 
tzare said:
The only ones used to pay are xbox users, so most ps users would probably skip a subsciption service just to play online.

btw, casual users are the ones that make install base huge and the ones that pay full price, so the ones that pay less for live are minority here.
Click to expand...

Point is that if you are discussing this topic, you were not affected by the price increase. Why care so much on what the casuals pay?
 
I honestly won't be surprised if Sony charges for online via PS World with PS4. I think people who are saying flat out that Sony would never do that are being nieve. MS has already set a precedent that people are willing to pay for online peer to peer gaming on consoles. Sony is a business. They like money and they lost a lot of it this gen. A new gen is a fresh slate. PSN is a lot better than it was in 2006. They wouldn't have been able to get away with charging for online at the start of this gen and when they went to PS+ they wouldn't have gotten away with suddenly charging for online since it had been free for so long.

They probably think whatever customers they lose will be made up by revenue generated by a mandatory sub to play online. MS is still going to charge for Live. They probably figure they can get away with charging for PS World. What are console gamers going to do? I'm talking about those that only buy Madden or CoD every year. Do you really think those kind of consumers are just going to sit out next gen or suddenly say, fuck it, I'm just going to build a gaming PC? Sure, those people exist on GAF, but the larger mainstream casual/semi-core gamer? I doubt it.
 
nib95 said:
The fact that you've paid $400 for a console, and $60 for the game, should automatically omit you from having to pay another $60 just to play it online. It's a farce.
Click to expand...
Especially if that purchase is towards a game that has a disproportionate emphasis on the online component. Buying Battlefield 3 and then having to pay $60 more to play what is, in essence, the entirety of that game is indefensible.
 
LeBrick James said:
By the end of this generation, the typical XBL user that's had a 360 since launch would've paid nearly $500 just to play online.
Click to expand...

Given the average price to eat is $7~ a day gamers had to pay $20,440 this generation so they wouldn't starve to death.

$6 a month is absolutely nothing in the scheme of things and $500 over 8 years isn't even a fart for someone on minimum wage.

Working fulltime minimum wage with two weeks off a year that's $116,000 before taxes.

I'm willing to pay $60 a year(I personally pay $25 a year with a family plan) if it means I get a better run service.

I'd pay it for either Playstation or Xbox.

nib95 said:
Which is pretty outrageous when you think about it. It will be even more audacious if the PS4 ends up roughly matching the 720 with online features, especially those key missing one's such as cross game voice chat.
Click to expand...

$500 over 8 years is outrageous to you?

I spend more on bubble gum in 8 years.

Want to hear something really outrageous?

Look at the price of phone plans.
 
LeBrick James said:
By the end of this generation, the typical XBL user that's had a 360 since launch would've paid nearly $500 just to play online.
Click to expand...

Which is pretty outrageous when you think about it. It will be even more audacious if the PS4 ends up roughly matching the 720 with online features, especially those key missing one's such as cross game voice chat.
 
It's a sort of rationalization to put it into those terms. What if you don't have a job or if every dollar matters? Are you going to ask if I always get the cheapest meals to save some money to pay for Live? Should I be gaming at all if I can't afford that monthly payment? If you have a set amount of cash you spend on your hobby (like me) you don't see it terms of only a few bucks. $500 bucks is $500 but it's also 8 full-price retail games (many more discounted games) or it could also be a semester of books (like it is for me).
 
OldJadedGamer said:
Point is that if you are discussing this topic, you were not affected by the price increase. Why care so much on what the casuals pay?
Click to expand...

well, i care about the official price. Nothing is guaranteed , and that includes all those discounts many find lurking the internet. Plus it may happen that i play with some people that could be considered casuals, for example FIFA with my brother-in-law. No way he will be paying to play online. And that may happen with many others in my friends list, so yes, i care about it. For me, i don't want to pay for p2p gaming, and obviously i care about pricing because people i play with will not be online anymore.

By the end of this generation, the typical XBL user that's had a 360 since launch would've paid nearly $500 just to play online.
Click to expand...

yes, that would be 500+399= 899, beating the 599 dollars of the mighty ps3 launch. Interesting.
 
Phat Michael said:
yeah - i can afford a $500 console but i sure as hell cant afford $6 a month for online!
Click to expand...



Yeah, but people got used to free online after 7 years when the competition was charging for it, so paying for the same thing is going to be difficult for most people. Let's say you pay $500 for the console, then $70-$140 or whatever for a game or two and then $50-$60 on top of that? It's launch PS3 all over again. It's not a matter of can be people afford it, but do they want to pay for an extra service that was once free. It would be like paying for ice for your soda at a fast food restaurant all of a sudden.
 
MuseManMike said:
It's a sort of rationalization to put it into those terms. What if you don't have a job or if every dollar matters? Are you going to ask if I always get the cheapest meals to save some money to pay for Live? Should I be gaming at all if I can't afford that monthly payment? If you have a set amount of cash you spend on your hobby (like me) you don't see it terms of only a few bucks. $500 bucks is $500 but it's also 8 full-price retail games (many more discounted games) or it could also be a semester of books (like it is for me).
Click to expand...

You can't compare $500 over 8 years vs $500 lump sum.

Hell the first $60 spent by someone 8 years ago isn't even worth the same amount as it is today.

If you have no job and every dollar matters what are you doing playing Xbox Live?
 
FordGTGuy said:
$500 over 8 years is outrageous to you?

I spend more on bubble gum in 8 years.

Want to hear something really outrageous?

Look at the price of phone plans.
Click to expand...

It's about the principle. Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I'll spend it without merit. People on here who know me know I live a pretty lavish lifestyle, but I'll still seek out a good and fair deal whenever I can. I have XBL Gold and have had it a few years on and off, but it's not something I like having to pay for, and several years I've not bothered with it at all. End of the day, it's not about the money, I should not have to pay to play online, especially when I've already paid for the game (including it's online mode).
 
SmokeMaxX said:
I figured it out:
"Orbis is also following the path first set by Xbox Live: our source says "most" of the PS4's online features will require a premium subscription to use."

Paid:
Apps
Playing Games
Discounts on games
Gaikai

Free:
Checks if game is used
Click to expand...

How about a PS+ subscription allows you to play second hand games?
 
nib95 said:
It's about the principle. Just because I have the money, doesn't mean I'll spend it without merit. People on here who know me know I live a pretty lavish lifestyle, but I'll still seek out a good deal whenever I can. I have XBL Gold and have had it a few years on and off, but it's not something I like having to pay for, and several years I've not bothered with it at all. End of the day, it's not about the money, I should not have to pay to play online, especially when I've already paid for the game (including it's online mode).
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the principle of it, I'm referring to how you're calling $500 in 8 years outrageous.
 
FordGTGuy said:
You can't compare $500 over 8 years vs $500 lump sum.

If you have no job and every dollar matters what are you doing playing Xbox Live?
Click to expand...
That's exactly why I don't. And, yes, you can. It isn't the same psychologically, but say I wanted relative parity for my experiences on PSN but on XBL. If I had purchased and actively played my Xbox like my PS3, I would be down roughly the cost of four years of Live. That's tangible now as I would have drawn from the same funds to pay for that subscription as I would my books. So, sure, one's buying power and the relative impact of losing $500 in a day versus $1 dollar a day for two years is not the same, the ultimate value to me is, as that decision to refrain from paying for Live was deliberate.
 
Not having to pay to play online literally made the PS3 pay for itself. Add the value of PS+ to it and it's just insane how much of a rip-off XBL was.

I don't see Sony copying that. I may eat crow in 13 hours, but I don't see it.

Maybe Gaikkai BC functionality, maybe some new PS4 functionality, but not online play or chatting. And if that's the case like I think it is, I'm fine with it. If they tack some extra shit on PS+, I'm fine with it.

Sony knows PS+ is a gigantic hit. They know people value free online. They know people value actual value. It took them a while to get to that conclusion, but I think they understand.
 
Codeblew said:
As long as I can play online for free, I am happy. I could give a shit about in-game chat or cross game chat or whatever else.
Click to expand...

But what if the free play has other limitations than just communication? For example, like in BF where Premium customers have priority in server queue? Or there are forced adds after every few rounds, that prevents you to join game at the start? And/or possibly some restrictions in within games, like number of characters, slower progression, available weapons/levels/quests etc?
 
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