-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Sessler says Nintendos presence in console race is in serious jeopardy
- Thread starter GoddyofAus
- Start date
http://www.marketwatch.com/investin...=50&lf=1&lf2=4&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&style=1013
I've tried to find the stats regarding falling market cap... Can't find them yet. But price and volume are good indicators, and they're not doing well.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
An awesome industry personality. YouTube em sometime.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Nintendo isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but the industry...well a vast majority of it would like to see them go third-party. But Nintendo has survived because of handhelds and dropping out of the hardware race, then setting sail on great blue ocean.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Their stacked lineup of the actual big games is laughable???
Oh, you're in for an awakening...
evilernLeGG
Member
Yep yep, that's on my list of stuff to check out.
TAS
Member
As usual, you speak words of wisdom. Bravo.
E3 doesn't mean anything as much as people still pretend it does, and for Nintendo it matters even less now that they have ND.
This is like someone saying "I can't believe a car's speed matters" or "I can't believe a TV's size matters." Of course it matters and of course it is hampering Nintendo.
They will show good stuff at E3. Smash Bros, X and other goodies. Nintendo has a solid first party after all.
zerokoolpsx
Member
They would need a dozen aces and a price drop.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
You said that before and ignored my response to it then.
Then please tell me why they are DEBUTING their biggest of their big games all at E3???
Because it's a press demo showcase.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Let me guess, new Mario game, new Zelda game, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc...?
Xbox and PS4 will launch this holiday season and will compete head to head for the same gamer crowd: the people who claim they are hardware addicts. Given that they will split the market, and will launch at a price close to twice what the Wii U will be priced at by Xmas, they will be doomed. Xbox and PS4 are already on the chopping block for Sony & MS. If you think Nintendo is dying then you must think PS4 and Xbox are already dead.
Ah market cap, I thought you were talking money they actually lost in the market that would show red ink in the financial reports.
They were never going to keep the cap they had during the highest high of the Wii/DS years.
We can safely say Sony and MSFT lost way more than that (Sony especially).
SNES
Star Fox (4 million)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (4.61 million)
N64
Super Mario 64 (11.62 million)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (7.6 million)
Star Fox 64 (3.325 million)
GCN
Super Mario Sunshine (5.5 million)
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (3.07 million)
Metroid Prime (2 million)
Wii
Super Mario Galaxy (10.68 million)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (5.82 million)
Sorry for the list wars lol but these are some nice mass market numbers to me. Throw in NSMB (Wii U version is already at 2 million) and Mario kart, ouch some Great mass market numbers right there.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Bayonetta 2, Retro's secret project, possibly Miyamoto's new IP, etc...
No Killzone though unfortuntaley :[
No, but it's nearly all gone.
And Sony is screwed, royally. MSFT can shoulder some losses and weather the storm... Nintendo can't, and I have no idea how Sony thinks it can save that company.
If Nintendo make a profit out of Wii U (which they will, given how they've made it all the gens), why shouldn't they make another console? They can make more money, even if it's a "small" profit.
They're not even comparable. And they're not losing money anymore.
Monty Mole
Member
But it's also on 360 and PS3, both of which have been around for 6-7+ years now and built up huge userbases. The big problem (among many) with Wii U is a lack of exclusive content, not already available on those two consoles.
He said Mario Kart.
fvng
Member
Arthur Gies said it best:
"The ps3 had a disappointing first year, and it sold eight times as many consoles as WiiU in its first January. At 600 dollars."
Nintendo is in trouble.
Don't forget that Sony did a good job future proofing their current gen console. Games like Beyond and The Last of Us aren't even out yet, and are still pushing the system to the limit. The system will be out 7 years old by this November.
Nintendo never had that level of commitment to a console making sure it could still impress that many years after launch.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Bayonetta 2: Niche, won't move the needle.
Retro: Let's hope it's not a DKC game this time. EDIT: Star Fox? Ugh.
Miyamoto's IP: I don't have any faith in this, sadly. He's well past his prime.
In that sense. I think you can understand the difference between a desire to showcase and real sales/interest the latter of which is what you are talking about.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I don't think it's unreasonable at all to believe Nintendo will eventually get out of the console business.
Sales may not even be the deciding factor.
Sales may not even be the deciding factor.
No, but if things don't turn around they would have to consider bowing out of the next gen of home consoles because they won't have the money on hand for R+D. That's a legitimate concern.
I'm a Nintendo fanboy from way back and I agree with you. MS and Sony have altered the landscape of the home console market, and not always for the better. Nintendo may not want to compete with those two, but they still have to contend with the perception that their hardware is behind the times. I, personally don't agree, but that is just my opinion.
Nintendo should have gone just a bit beefier on specs, not Orbis beefy, but about halfway to where MS and Sony are going. I think the WiiU is at about the quarter way mark. They should have doubled the RAM and went with a more capable CPU. I think that coupled with their GPU solution would have done wonders.
Walter Matthau
Member
The 3DS will be a success. The Wii U probably wont be, but people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and everyone who owns a Wii U will buy plenty of their games so there is profit to be made.
While I don't think Nintendo is going to be "in trouble" this generation, I do feel the Wii U might have lost that key 18-25 male demographic that really drives the market. If Nintendo is dissatisfied where things are in a couple years, they should take a careful look at what makes either the PS4 or the new Xbox successful and come out with a new console in 3 or 4 years that presents a somewhat significant step up in power from the competition.
While I don't think Nintendo is going to be "in trouble" this generation, I do feel the Wii U might have lost that key 18-25 male demographic that really drives the market. If Nintendo is dissatisfied where things are in a couple years, they should take a careful look at what makes either the PS4 or the new Xbox successful and come out with a new console in 3 or 4 years that presents a somewhat significant step up in power from the competition.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
It'll be DKCR2: Diddy's Re-Kong Quest and you will like it, mister.
What? Last i found they lost in 2011&2012 something akin to a couple of billions which is not even close to what they earned in one of their best years.
MSFT is not moving W8 so they could probably need to get leaner, Sony is done can't argue on that.
So it doesn't count if you don't like it?
powermastergamer
Banned
Played Super Mario Galxy 2 this weekend, God damn, what a genuinely good looking game. No old men faces, or 50 000 explosions, just a damn good, aesthetically pleasant experience.
Nintendo's strength has always been its weaker hardware.
Now, knuckle dragging, low wage, public schooled consumerist neanderthals probably won't understand that statement at all, but it has always carried deep meaning when considering Nintendo and their modern success.
Nintendo's strength has always been its weaker hardware.
Now, knuckle dragging, low wage, public schooled consumerist neanderthals probably won't understand that statement at all, but it has always carried deep meaning when considering Nintendo and their modern success.
I'll wait for the 3DS version with less waggle
On the other hand, are you one of the people waiting for the next renditions of Killzone, Uncharted, Halo, PGR, etc?
There's nothing wrong with showing up with titles that your fanbase enjoys, especially if those titles move a lot of units.
Castle Doctrine
Member
Sessler: not enough games. Hard to disagree with something so simple.
Like I said in the "milk" thread, this began during the N64 days, and that's why people have a strong doom and gloom attitude with the Wii U. The friggin EXACT same reason the N64 struggled and the Gamecube struggled: not enough games, and not enough variety of games.
You can only ride the Mario and Zelda train for so long. The pivotal moment and birth of the decline is when Nintendo lost Square, symbolic of the deeper problems with Nintendo and lack of third party support. The Wii temporarily hid the fundamental issue that has never gone away.
Like I said in the "milk" thread, this began during the N64 days, and that's why people have a strong doom and gloom attitude with the Wii U. The friggin EXACT same reason the N64 struggled and the Gamecube struggled: not enough games, and not enough variety of games.
You can only ride the Mario and Zelda train for so long. The pivotal moment and birth of the decline is when Nintendo lost Square, symbolic of the deeper problems with Nintendo and lack of third party support. The Wii temporarily hid the fundamental issue that has never gone away.
Exactly what I'm hoping for. It worked well for my 3DS purchase...
Way too expensive to consider that now.
They just don't have the cash reserves... At least from what I've read.
I agree. The problem is that the other consoles offer far more than those core franchises, while Nintendo consoles don't.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I tend to agree that no matter what Nintendo's fortunes, the media will continue to thread "doom" into the narrative and "why is Nintendo not 3rd party yet?" so long as Nintendo isn't a leading, neck-in-neck contender with Sony or MS.
If Nintendo carves out their own successful niche or finds the market most suited to themselves, even if they start making money hand over fist again and it's a sustainable model, they'll always be considered the outsider. Nintendo became the outsider when they released the N64. Not just due to business and hardware decisions (though these were big factors). But due to cultural elements. The first huge generation of people who played video games in the 80s grew up by the end of the 90s. Sony was there with Playstation to fully take advantage of that demographic, and they did a great job of it. Nintendo however, remained Nintendo. Not only because of any mistakes they made, but because a big part of their business is making all-ages games, and "foundation" games for kids.
That's when the common gaming narrative of Nintendo is kiddy, Nintendo is uncool, Nintendo is behind the times, why we still got Nintendo? really crystalized. Why is Nintendo dumb and old fashioned like when I was a kid, when everything else like Playstation is bitching and mature?
Of course, culture affects business because even if you have a good product people won't buy it if they think it's stupid. Maybe this is another reason why Nintendo should/inevitably will cut the cord with the 20-something male "core console" gaming demographic. This makes Wii U a bit ironic since their stated PR was that they designed a platform intended to be more balanced between different audiences. (And actually, even in its current state, it pretty much is.) Even if Nintendo did cut that cord, I think there would still be an audience for more than just entry-level family games wherever they went. So I think whatever they made next, it would still try to be more balanced like Wii U, and wouldn't literally be a Wii 2.
If Nintendo carves out their own successful niche or finds the market most suited to themselves, even if they start making money hand over fist again and it's a sustainable model, they'll always be considered the outsider. Nintendo became the outsider when they released the N64. Not just due to business and hardware decisions (though these were big factors). But due to cultural elements. The first huge generation of people who played video games in the 80s grew up by the end of the 90s. Sony was there with Playstation to fully take advantage of that demographic, and they did a great job of it. Nintendo however, remained Nintendo. Not only because of any mistakes they made, but because a big part of their business is making all-ages games, and "foundation" games for kids.
That's when the common gaming narrative of Nintendo is kiddy, Nintendo is uncool, Nintendo is behind the times, why we still got Nintendo? really crystalized. Why is Nintendo dumb and old fashioned like when I was a kid, when everything else like Playstation is bitching and mature?
Of course, culture affects business because even if you have a good product people won't buy it if they think it's stupid. Maybe this is another reason why Nintendo should/inevitably will cut the cord with the 20-something male "core console" gaming demographic. This makes Wii U a bit ironic since their stated PR was that they designed a platform intended to be more balanced between different audiences. (And actually, even in its current state, it pretty much is.) Even if Nintendo did cut that cord, I think there would still be an audience for more than just entry-level family games wherever they went. So I think whatever they made next, it would still try to be more balanced like Wii U, and wouldn't literally be a Wii 2.
Thug Waffle
Member
Do you understand the real money involved? It's not like Wii U's subpar sales figures aren't doing any damage. They didn't get the early adoption they were hoping for and the console suffered because of their hastiness.
If they really want to compete directly with PS4 and Xbox 720, they've got a long way to go. Their hardware decisions set them up to compete more with current gen consoles and frickin' Ouyas.
Why are people so unwilling to acknowledge Nintendo's missteps but they swarm on MS and Sony at the drop of a hat?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
It's Wii U so obviously they'll get you to control via the touchscreen like Canvas Curse or Phantom Hourglass.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I guess Zelda skirts its way in these days so I shouldnt have lumped that in, but Star Fox and Metroid are not mass-market titles. Theres no way you can spin those two: theyre greatly diminished franchises.
And as highlighted, Mario, Mario, and Mario are mass market true. But that doesnt exactly stack up to what happens when third parties swear off your system and find their market elsewhere. Mario dominance and "Nintendo owners only buy Nintendo games" works against it, and you have the current situation playing out before your very eyes.
Playstation 1 changed what the "mass market" for video games was all about. I dont think its ever going to go back to those 8-bit franchises as the true front runners, and instead you have er, ahem, more mature things like COD and AC and GTA leading the way. Nintendo just hasnt really kept up with that. Maybe Retro's hopefully new IP will be the first genuine step towards attracting that mass market.