SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

MotionBlue said:
The siphon in Elizabeth's tower is highly radioactive, it
sterilized Comstock and gave most of the workers in the tower cancer.

RE; Ending

So the time loop is closed now? Anna is back with Booker. That's a happy ending right?

God damn I hate cliffhangers
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Well you're talking about the after-credit scene right? we've only seen Booker and then when he opens the door i doubt Anna is in the room. You can't hear a baby cry.

Question: What are the Boys of Silence? did they ever said anything about their history?
 
Well technically you never hear Anna cry, it doesn't mean she's not there. First time we see baby Anna she's quiet, in fact baby Anna hasn't made a single noise the entire game.

LiquidMamba said:
This might be a stupid question, but how does the timeline line up? Did they go back in time and bring a younger Booker/Comstock from another universe?
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Yes, there SHOULD be since Elizabeth is Booker's child from his timeline, but yet she's 19/20 when Booker meets her in her/Comstock's timeline. But at the same time Booker notes at some point in the game that it's 1912 or rather he's back in the 1912 version of Columbia after being several decades into the future in Comstock's timeline.

Elizabeth and the Bioshock world at large have shown that tears not only span universes but different times.
 
So i guess this ending pretty much says no more Bioshock games.

Spaceshock it is now!
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
That post-credits loophole.

Wow.

Why?
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bioshock-infinite.gif
 
LiquidMamba said:
This might be a stupid question, but how does the timeline line up? Did they go back in time and bring a younger Booker/Comstock from another universe?
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baptism of booker -> becomes comstock -> cant get a child so he lets luteces open tears to a dimension where he has one -> grabs her away -> luteces grab booker into comstocks dimension -> events of bioshock infinite

im not really sure though
 
Garibaldi said:
Just a quick observation.

If Anna/Elizabeth was born after the baptism, wouldn't she also cease to exist is all universes?
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yes thats why they disappeared at the end
but that post credits scene implies that the killing at the baptism only killed comstock
 
I feel like I've just walked through some sort of door after finishing Bioshock: Infinite. Damn, I loved it but there is so much to discuss.
 
I'm not even sure why they added that post credits scene, it's seems like a dick move just so the can do "The end, OR IS IT?" thing.

Sn4ke_911 said:
not all Anna's disappear.
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They disappear one by one to piano notes, and on the last note the screen goes black, could imply that they are all gone.
Makes sense, since if he is dead he can't give birth to her.
 
vogelkacke said:
yes thats why they disappeared at the end
but that post credits scene implies that the killing at the baptism only killed comstock
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Do they all disappear? It appears our Elizabeth is still there. She might of course disappear on the last note when the screen fades to black.
 
Garibaldi said:
Do they all disappear? It appears our Elizabeth is still there. She might of course disappear on the last note when the screen fades to black.
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That's the thing. Damn you Levine for letting us in the dark.
 
Just finished the game. REALLY wish I hadn't been spoiled like 2 weeks ago but I still had a mind full of fucks. Such a brilliant end, especially when they ended up in Rapture my mouth literally fell open and I stood there with goosebumps and let out a loud "HOLY SHIT!!" I felt like applauding lol

Fucking brilliant stuff Ken, good show. So what's the general consensus here? I'm not reading the WHOLE thread lol
 
I think one of my favorite parts is the very beginning of Columbia in the worship area, more specifically Booker having to accept baptism to be accepted into Columbia ;)
 
vogelkacke said:
baptism of booker -> becomes comstock -> cant get a child so he lets luteces open tears to a dimension where he has one -> grabs her away -> luteces grab booker into comstocks dimension -> events of bioshock infinite

im not really sure though
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That's exactly how I figure it and this is what makes the most sense.
 
Ok, so there are two universes. BLUE and RED (I'm just using random Fringe colours).

My crazy read of things right now.

In Blue Universe (The Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker/Comstock is the hero of Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker/Comstock accepts Baptism for his sins in the war.
- Booker/Comstock meets the Rosalind Lutece and Columbia is funded/created
- BOOKER/COMSTOCK NEVER HAS ANNA IN BLUE UNIVERSE because he took a completely different path with Columbia
- Rosalind Lutece discovers a way to create tears in time and space.
- Booker/Comstock unable to have children due to radiation poisoning from Lutece's technology asks that a tear be created to an alternate universe where a version of him has a child.
- Booker/Comstock offers to pay off RED UNIVERSE Booker's debts for the child.
- Booker/Comstock concocts a story about the child being born in seven days and positions her as a saviour.
- At some point Rosalind Lutece discovers her male counterpart from the other universe.

In Red Universe (The False Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker fights at Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker seeks Baptism but ultimately turns down having his sins washed away.
- Booker has a child named Anna. Booker's wife eventually dies.
- Booker turns to a life of gambling.
- Booker is given the option by male Lutece to pay away his debts by giving up Anna.
- Booker changes his mind and tries to get Anna back. Anna's finger is cut in the process. The possible split of her existence between two universes is what gives her the unique abilities she has?
- Both Luteces, seeing what Booker/Comstock is going to do decide to drag Booker from Red Universe to Blue Universe to stop Booker/Comstock. They say that ultimately the chain of events set in motion will eliminate all Bookers/Comstocks in the multiverse. This will have the added benefit of eliminating all Anna/Elizabeths. Essentially they're dividing by 0.

I know the biggest point of contention will be whether or not Blue Universe Booker/Comstock had his own version of Anna. I think there is certainly room for the argument that he did. The timing seems off if he did though.

Go crazy and attack this theory.

The divide by 0. Elizabeth/Anna killing Comstock/Booker at the Baptism eliminates both possibilities. The one when he has the child and the one when creates Columbia. Thus eliminating their existence.
 
DoctorWho said:
Ok, so there are two universes. BLUE and RED (I'm just using random Fringe colours).

My crazy read of things right now.

In Blue Universe (The Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker/Comstock is the hero of Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker/Comstock accepts Baptism for his sins in the war.
- Booker/Comstock meets the Rosalind Lutece and Columbia is funded/created
- BOOKER/COMSTOCK NEVER HAS ANNA IN BLUE UNIVERSE because he took a completely different path with Columbia
- Rosalind Lutece discovers a way to create tears in time and space.
- Booker/Comstock unable to have children due to radiation poisoning from Lutece's technology asks that a tear be created to an alternate universe where a version of him has a child.
- Booker/Comstock offers to pay off RED UNIVERSE Booker's debts for the child.
- Booker/Comstock concocts a story about the child being born in seven days and positions her as a saviour.
- At some point Rosalind Lutece discovers her male counterpart from the other universe.

In Red Universe (The False Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker fights at Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker seeks Baptism but ultimately turns down having his sins washed away.
- Booker has a child named Anna. Booker's wife eventually dies.
- Booker turns to a life of gambling.
- Booker is given the option by male Lutece to pay away his debts by giving up Anna.
- Booker changes his mind and tries to get Anna back. Anna's finger is cut in the process. The possible split of her existence between two universes is what gives her the unique abilities she has?
- Both Luteces, seeing what Booker/Comstock is going to do decide to drag Booker from Red Universe to Blue Universe to stop Booker/Comstock. They say that ultimately the chain of events set in motion will eliminate all Bookers/Comstocks in the multiverse. This will have the added benefit of eliminating all Anna/Elizabeths. Essentially they're dividing by 0.

I know the biggest point of contention will be whether or not Blue Universe Booker/Comstock had his own version of Anna. I think there is certainly room for the argument that he did. The timing seems off if he did though.

Go crazy and attack this theory.
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I fucking love it. That's extremely well thought out and so far I think it's the best explanation I've read. I like the part where you said her cross over made her have those powers. Maybe Comstock realised she could do things and had her locked away cos he was scared of her. I also forgot about the whole 7 day birth thing and now it makes so much more sense.
You made an awesome ending even more awesome lol. I can't wait to play the game again now to hear things a different way
DoctorWho said:
The divide by 0. Elizabeth/Anna killing Comstock/Booker at the Baptism eliminates both possibilities. The one when he has the child and the one when creates Columbia. Thus eliminating their her existence.
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What's your take on the after credits scene then? Did it all reset to a perfect world where he had the child again or what?
 
jacksepticeye said:
I fucking love it. That's extremely well thought out and so far I think it's the best explanation I've read. I like the part where you said her cross over made her have those powers. Maybe Comstock realised she could do things and had her locked away cos he was scared of her. I also forgot about the whole 7 day birth thing and now it makes so much more sense.
You made an awesome ending even more awesome lol. I can't wait to play the game again now to hear things a different way


What's your take on the after credits scene then? Did it all reset to a perfect world where he had the child again or what?
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I think that's what is killing my Divide by 0 scenario right now. Is it possible that destroying the Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Anna loop creates a third universe where Booker has Anna and they live happily ever after? I kind of hope so. I like happy endings.

I love the look at the INFINITE universes/timelines we get. There are obviously timelines where nothing takes place. There are timelines when Rapture happens instead. There are probably timelines when both happen. It's bonkers and I love it!
 
I'm not sure why people who played the game before release were so confused - to me it seems pretty clear that at the very end - Elizabeth is killing Comstock booker simultaneously in all of the universes he inhabits at the point of his baptism - thereby negating his creation at all, thus the post-credits sequence is just MC-booker living his life without the intervention of Comstock-booker i.e with Anna.

Am I missing something? The only thing I'm unsure on is the motivation of the luteces.

DoctorWho said:
I love the look at the INFINITE universes/timelines we get. There are obviously timelines where nothing takes place. There are timelines when Rapture happens instead. There are probably timelines when both happen. It's bonkers and I love it!
Click to expand...

I love the scene where Booker is indignant at Elizabeth's suggestion that he doesn't have any free will and proclaims that he can go wherever he wants to - but the player is physically stuck and can only move in the direction that the bridge forms in, and indeed you can see future versions of booker and elizabeth following the bridge all around you. It's the kind of metaphor you can only execute in this medium, this effectively at least.
 
Petrichor said:
I'm not sure why people who played the game before release were so confused - to me it seems pretty clear that at the very end - Elizabeth is killing Comstock booker simultaneously in all of the universes he inhabits at the point of his baptism - thereby negating his creation at all, thus the post-credits sequence is just MC-booker living his life without the intervention of Comstock-booker i.e with Anna.

Am I missing something? The only thing I'm unsure on is the motivation of the luteces.
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I think you're right.

As for the Luteces. Weren't the recordings that alluded to their death? Maybe it's possible that they saw a glimpse of what is to come and decided to do the right thing, which is destroying the Comstock/Booker loop and thus eliminating the possibility of Columbia ever happening. That seems the most probably motivation.
 
DoctorWho said:
I think that's what is killing my Divide by 0 scenario right now. Is it possible that destroying the Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Anna loop creates a third universe where Booker has Anna and they live happily ever after? I kind of hope so. I like happy endings.

I love the look at the INFINITE universes/timelines we get. There are obviously timelines where nothing takes place. There are timelines when Rapture happens instead. There are probably timelines when both happen. It's bonkers and I love it!
Click to expand...

The ending doesn't stop yet another alternate universe where, for example, he never goes to war or one where he becomes a catholic and becomes a religious guy who loves irish people.

The way I understood, the only timelines that were negated are the ones going directly out of the decision to be baptized or not. And that's one reason why this is better than going literally to his cradle and smothering him as a baby.
 
Sblargh said:
The ending doesn't stop yet another alternate universe where, for example, he never goes to war or one where he becomes a catholic and becomes a religious guy who loves irish people.

The way I understood, the only timelines that were negated are the ones going directly out of the decision to be baptized or not. And that's one reason why this is better than going literally to his cradle and smothering him as a baby.
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Yeah, this makes sense. Any universe where he doesn't show up for baptism (whether or not he accepts it) can continue to exist. Good point.
 
I don't know guys, do you hear Anna crying in the post credit scene? i don't think she's there.

btw. awesome theory DoctorWho you should send this to Ken Levine and his team.
 
DoctorWho, this is where I'm lost:

- Booker is given the option by male Lutece to pay away his debts by giving up Anna.
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I'm trying to figure out how/why the Luteces were involved with Comstock. Who engineered the whole deal to 'buy' Anna?



----

I want to watch Sliders again.

Or the Community ep with Evil Troy/Abed.

Or any of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fiction_employing_parallel_universes


That's all that's really keeping me from having my mind blown; the parallel universe thing's been done endlessly, albeit with slightly logistical variances, changes in rules, etc. between all of these.
 
Petrichor said:
I'm not sure why people who played the game before release were so confused - to me it seems pretty clear that at the very end - Elizabeth is killing Comstock booker simultaneously in all of the universes he inhabits at the point of his baptism - thereby negating his creation at all, thus the post-credits sequence is just MC-booker living his life without the intervention of Comstock-booker i.e with Anna.

Am I missing something? The only thing I'm unsure on is the motivation of the luteces.



I love the scene where Booker is indignant at Elizabeth's suggestion that he doesn't have any free will and proclaims that he can go wherever he wants to - but the player is physically stuck and can only move in the direction that the bridge forms in, and indeed you can see future versions of booker and elizabeth following the bridge all around you. It's the kind of metaphor you can only execute in this medium, this effectively at least.
Click to expand...

If Booker from baptism forward ceases to exist then he couldn't be around to have Anna since Booker doesn't have Anna until after he turns down baptism and lives his life in NYC.

Elizabeth drowns Booker thus Comstock/Booker ceases to exist past the point of Baptism, but Booker still exists prior to that and Booker will still reach that point in time, he'll either accept or deny, probability. Since it's a choice when he makes one, another universe will always spawn in which he makes the other.

The other thing that could happen is every time Booker from any timeline reach that particular point they're either suddenly downed by a girl he doesn't know (this girl being Elizabeth/Anna) or he suddenly ceases to exist.

A divide by zero situation can makes sense if you understand what happens when you divide by zero

Sn4ke_911 said:
I don't know guys, do you hear Anna crying in the post credit scene? i don't think she's there.

btw. awesome theory DoctorWho you should send this to Ken Levine and his team.
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You never hear Anna cry through out the game, not really the best indicator that she's there or not. Though if Booker is there as Booker and not Comstock at that point in time then by extension Anna would have to be there since Booker goes on to have a child.
 
This was a really nice surprise after Fringe ended. Almost feels like a capper on it.

Another theory.

Bird represents Anna/Elizabeth and the False Prophet's world.

Cage represents Comstock/Booker - the Prophet's world.

Angelus Errare said:
If Booker from baptism forward ceases to exist then he couldn't be around to have Anna since Booker doesn't have Anna until after he turns down baptism and lives his life in NYC.

Elizabeth drowns Booker thus Comstock/Booker ceases to exist past the point of Baptism, but Booker still exists prior to that and Booker will still reach that point in time, he'll either accept or deny, probability. Since it's a choice when he makes one, another universe will always spawn in which he makes the other.

The other thing that could happen is every time any Bookers from any timeline reach that particular point they're either suddenly downed by a girl he doesn't know (this girl being Elizabeth/Anna) or he suddenly ceases to exist.
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Or, as someone mentioned, Booker doesn't show up for the Baptism at all. Or Booker never fights in the way. In either of those scenarios he can still have Anna.

There are millions of probabilities were he can still have Anna and nothing of note happens.

Out of the Infinite possibilities, the ones that are destroyed are the ones that concern the Booker who goes to baptism and either accepts it or turns it down.
 
By False Prophet, do you mean False Shepherd?

Also, damn, until we learned otherwise, I was sure Lady Comstock and the Songbird were tied together.

Who knows, they may yet be in DLC; any number of parallel universes can be drawn upon to make any character turn into anything.
 
What was the significance of the coin toss always resulting in 'heads'? Was it Booker being asked that question every time he repeated the same events?
 
Angelus Errare said:
If Booker from baptism forward ceases to exist then he couldn't be around to have Anna since Booker doesn't have Anna until after he turns down baptism and lives his life in NYC.

Elizabeth drowns Booker thus Comstock/Booker ceases to exist past the point of Baptism, but Booker still exists prior to that and Booker will still reach that point in time, he'll either accept or deny, probability. Since it's a choice when he makes one, another universe will always spawn in which he makes the other.

The other thing that could happen is every time any Bookers from any timeline reach that particular point they're either suddenly downed by a girl he doesn't know (this girl being Elizabeth/Anna) or he suddenly ceases to exist.
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Aaaah so basically the gist is that the only Bookers that live are ones that never go to the river to begin with.

the probability/quantum physics stuff was a really interesting addition to the game!
 
GavinGT said:
What was the significance of the coin toss always resulting in 'heads'? Was it Booker being asked that question every time he repeated the same events?
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Yeah. At the time it doesn't made sense (as I'm sure it wasn't supposed to), but yeah, I think they are testing multiple versions of this same timeline. Maybe it is to show that the timelines aren't actually infinite; there isn't a single one, for example, where the coin toss changes.
 
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