JimboJones
Member
Official PS Magazine UK 1998 tells it how it is!
What exactly is supposed to be so good about Final Fantasy VII?
- Thread starter Oxigen_Waste
- Start date
Spehornoob
Member
THis is true. Sephiroth has as well, to a lesser extent. He's never been portrayed as anything but evil, but they threw in a complete obsession with Cloud and made a group of sympathetic "Sephiroth clones" in the movie.
Deadpandas
Member
It was a lot of peoples first RPG/Final Fantasy game. Maybe good at the time but it hasn't aged well at all. Tried to play it on the Vita a few months back and it's almost unplayable
This soundtrack is Uematsu's masterpiece, it is the finest score ever composed for a video game to this day.
Cid's Theme?
Main Theme of Final Fantasy VII?
One-Winged Angel?
Fucking legendary. Makes me tear up, although that is certainly nostalgia at work.
Cid's Theme?
Main Theme of Final Fantasy VII?
One-Winged Angel?
Fucking legendary. Makes me tear up, although that is certainly nostalgia at work.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Final Fantasy 7 will always be the greatest game ever for me because it came along at the right time and offered a mindblowing experience with themes that games today wouldn't even dream of touching. Nostalgia isn't blinding me, I play the game every summer and enjoy it just as much as the last.
I can see why you would have a problem with the graphics, the combat, the characters, the story but don't ever say the music is "not good". The soundtrack is among the greatest amongst video games.
I can see why you would have a problem with the graphics, the combat, the characters, the story but don't ever say the music is "not good". The soundtrack is among the greatest amongst video games.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
? There's no "opinion" about it. It's stated pretty clearly in the game that he's being controlled by Jenova.
Its just an all around excellent game that I could still pop in right now, load it up, and play with a smile on my face because it still holds up. The combat system, story, and characters are just interesting. Throughout the years with the new generation of gamers coming into the limelight, It seems that its the "cool thing" to hate on final fantasy 7 now. Not sure if it's because so many people like it but I just smell a sense of bitterness from people who says the game sucks.
JaseMath
Member
Clearly someone didn't play Chrono Cross.
I did, but not even better than Chrono Trigger.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
I take it you've never heard the VI, IX or X soundtracks, then... Either that or you're just one of those people who get so attached to a product that everything about it is their pinnacle of achievement...
Naw man, they always keep her character personality, motives and even themes constant. In AC they even sorta revisited the whole Cloud coming to Tifa's aid (after she gets beat down) thing that happened in FF7.
"MOTHER"
I take it you've never heard the VI, IX or X soundtracks, then... Either that or you're just one of those people who get so attached to a product that everything about it is their pinnacle of achievement...
I'm replaying FF7 right now. Every other song sounds like utter poop. Mainly all those songs at the beginning in Midgar.
There were like 3 good songs out of the game tho (Sephiroth, Aerith, World Theme), and they arranged those promptly back in the day IIRC.
It's been....years, since i've played FF7, but doesn't the person who tells you that not actually know what's going on? Eliminating Jenovah before the game's end pretty much lets you know that Sephiroth is in the reigns the whole time, even if he's been perverted by Jenovah's influence and can't be restored.
I never thought of Sephiroth as a great villain. He never had a real agenda that the player knows about for the lionshare of the game, and then when you find out, it's very..."oh. I expected more from you." He comes off more as a apathetic sociopath than a really antagonist.
But you know, he has to follow up Kefka. So...::Shrugs::
KojiKnight
Member
If you're going to talk about godly game sound tracks, FF7 doesn't even rate in the top 100 to me. There are a couple good songs, but they don't elevate the entire sound track to greatness, I wouldn't even rank it above the technically inferior FF6 in that regard (FF7 mostly used the PS1 equivalent to midi, putting it not too far above the SNES in range).
Spehornoob
Member
Haha. I'd rather not get into a debate for a game I haven't played in a few years, but, at the very least, the FF wiki is of the opinion that Sephiroth is the one in control.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Jenova
"At this point Sephiroth's will was stronger than Jenova's, and he could exert his influence on those injected with the Jenova cells, his plan to have them bring the Black Materia to him."
I seem to vaguely recall this being a big debate among fans of the series, though.
well, the compilation of VII is the worst thing ever and platformed an entirely new and horrible fanbase/level of popularity after Advent Children.
Final Fantasy 7 is the greatest jRPG ever.
I still love the graphics, music, story, materia, limit breaks, battle speed, locations, secret bosses, secret characters, etc. OP, if you can't understand why people like it, arguing that everything about it is crap isn't going to change their minds or yours.
Everying in AC is terrible. I'm amazed that FF7 fans like that movie.
That being said, the best post square FF7 clusterfuck repesentation of Tifa is her in KH2. She's not sure about anything except her own power and her faith in Cloud, even though Cloud is an unreliable idiot. That was a real reminder of why FF7 stuck with me for so long.
I've played every main Final Fantasy to completion. All those are amazing, too. Just slightly behind VII.
I'm an Uematsu fanboy, in general.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
As for the comparisons to FF9, there was no sense of urgency or a grand plot for the first few hours of the game, a symptom that a lot of RPGs suffer. There was nothing impressive or enticing about the FF9 plot until the Cleyra segment.
Meanwhile FF7 started off by thrusting you in the middle of an important mission and the urgency of themes is hammered home in the first 10 minutes. The planet is dying, evil company is sucking the planet's energy for profits. By the end of the first disc, think of how much had happened storywise. (people give God of War credit for starting balls out action, FF7 did it long ago)
What did FF9 accomplish in the first disc? Have you perform in a theatre act? Kidnap a princess?
Meanwhile FF7 started off by thrusting you in the middle of an important mission and the urgency of themes is hammered home in the first 10 minutes. The planet is dying, evil company is sucking the planet's energy for profits. By the end of the first disc, think of how much had happened storywise. (people give God of War credit for starting balls out action, FF7 did it long ago)
What did FF9 accomplish in the first disc? Have you perform in a theatre act? Kidnap a princess?
Acquiescence
Member
The only aspect of the game that has aged is the lego-block character models used when outside of combat - everything else is timeless. It's pure unadulterated magic in the form of 3 plastic discs.
Conciliator
Banned
It's a real you-had-to-be-there moment in gaming. I don't think much of it holds up. Also it was an introduction to the genre for a lot of people. That said, the materia system is way less shallow than VI's(though VI is a better game in most other ways). The Esper stuff is a barely a shell of a mechanic.
Materia>Esper
Really hated Esper system.
Just out of Midgar and first fight already got Matra Magic. This game is just so damn easy it breaks itself sometimes.
I'm amazed I sat through the movie tbh. I have no idea what happened but flying motorcycles.
Really hated Esper system.
Just out of Midgar and first fight already got Matra Magic. This game is just so damn easy it breaks itself sometimes.
I'm amazed I sat through the movie tbh. I have no idea what happened but flying motorcycles.
Spehornoob
Member
When I was in college, I decided not to do Choir, since with Computer Science, Game Design, Math, and Theatre all part of my college life, I figured I didn't have time.
My junior year, the school choir performed at Distant Worlds.
I was so pissed.
That's just...like...your opinion man. It is a great game, but I don't even know if I would put it in my top 10 jRPG list anymore.
I just had this conversation last night with someone. FF7 does a lot of things right, but there are a lot of games out there that have done it better.
FF7 is 1997's Skyrim. A game so "big" that it takes people's breath away, even if it has a lot of technical issues.
KojiKnight
Member
You don't have to have the main villian have a great back story or motive to make them great villians, they have to be seen doing things or at least trying things that are truly reprehensible.
Sephiroth was no slouch in this department, killing an entire village and wanting to destroy the world, but most of that was done off screen. You don't see Sephiroth murder women and children, but you see the aftermath. Part of what made Kefka the superior villian (in my mind at least) is that we see his actions first hand. We watch Kefka have Doma poisoned. We watch the guards die. We see the immediate aftereffects by having a main character's wife and child killed.
Sephiroth DID succeed in killing an actual main character, and I think that's exactly what he's really most remembered for and for good reason. The rest of the stuff however we don't necessarily experience in the same way because of how it's portrayed.
Also Kefka actually succeeded in destroying the world, where as Sephiroth fails AND loses to Cloud to what can only be called a really shitty sword dance move.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
If that's the case he just became an even worse character. He just went from the strong silent type nice guy who got used for evil purposes by an intergalactic and all-poweful sentient being to just another "destroy the world and everyone in it" uber-villain stereotype.
Cid's theme / Lindblum Castle in IX shits on all other FF city themes from great height!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5PtJXJYD3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5PtJXJYD3c
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Great gameplay, great music, memorable characters/scenes/environments. And a story that was told in a very interesting and unique way.
I don't get why anyone wouldn't see these things.
I don't get why anyone wouldn't see these things.
BibiMaghoo
Member
1) Story
2) Materia system
3) Side quests
4) Hidden stuff you could miss, including party characters.
5) Optional super bosses
6) They made summons awesome
7) nostalgia
8) Stuff that was great then - FMV's, backgrounds.
But the most important one?
Every character had their own time. Each had a portion of the game assigned to revealing their personalities and histories. This made for a game where people actually gave a fuck about what was going on, and for many people, they will simply not have found this in another video game before. The game managed to make people give a shit about what was going on, and that is the games secret to greatness.
2) Materia system
3) Side quests
4) Hidden stuff you could miss, including party characters.
5) Optional super bosses
6) They made summons awesome
7) nostalgia
8) Stuff that was great then - FMV's, backgrounds.
But the most important one?
Every character had their own time. Each had a portion of the game assigned to revealing their personalities and histories. This made for a game where people actually gave a fuck about what was going on, and for many people, they will simply not have found this in another video game before. The game managed to make people give a shit about what was going on, and that is the games secret to greatness.
The different art couldn't possibly have anything to due with Cloud being tired of fighting in the Dissidia series, and confident Zack-wannabe in FF7?
Nah, that couldn't be it. let's just continue to post this picture without taking context into consideration.
I'm currently replaying FFVII now. About halfway through disc 2.
I don't care about stories in games, as I think they're all pretty horrible. A good one is nice, but nothing I'd count against the game. The characters are all really good in FF7. The battle system is basic, but it's basic in just about all of them. Eventually I'm just holding down circle. The music is still amazing. The prerendered backgrounds are great, the locations are interesting and unique, I think the game in battle still looks pretty decent.
It's a good RPG. I think the complaints people level at the game could apply to anything, really. It seems people dislike the game more just because it's popular.
Muffdraul
Member
My take is that almost nobody really understands the crux of the matter-- For all intents and purposes, Sephiroth basically IS Jenova. He isn't being controlled like a puppet. The Jenova cells that were spliced into him in the womb mean that he is partially part of Jenova's species. He was acting of his own will and volition the whole time, but the Jenova DNA in him caused him to have the same instincts and will that Jenova had. i.e. cause a major wound to the planet so that the lifestream could be absorbed. That's what Jenova tried to do but was stopped by the Cetra. Sephiroth was trying to do the same thing. Jenova wasn't "making him do it". He wanted to do it, he was driven to do it in the same way Jenova was.
That part in the Shinra HQ where the prison doors are open and there's a trail of blood is one of my most favourite things from anything ever. I've got a memory of playing that during a storm.
I still think it holds up, JRPG's haven't exactly got better. I am one of the kiddies that grew up with it as my first RPG though...
I still think it holds up, JRPG's haven't exactly got better. I am one of the kiddies that grew up with it as my first RPG though...
JaseMath
Member
And even that is still better than Final Fantasy VII. With the exception of a very small handful of tracks, everything in FFVII is forgettable. KojiKnight was right - even with the technical inferiority of the SNES, Uematsu produced better compositions for FFVI.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Fight On
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsLnioY3FVY
JENOVA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6GrZYE2il0
Tifa's Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbOqcR-BORo
Cosmo Canyon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T3srk8Dkuo
The Great Warrior
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrI8bHs6Qvk
Birth of a God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQwQnEfbh0U
Only 3 good songs, huh?
I do feel like much of the backlash against FF7 these days is more of a reaction to the sheer amount of hype it's gotten than to the game itself.
I mean even OP seems to think the game is okay. Heck I might even wager that he'd like it a bit more if the whole "this is supposed to be the greatest RPG ever" thing wasn't hovering in the back of his mind the whole time.
I mean even OP seems to think the game is okay. Heck I might even wager that he'd like it a bit more if the whole "this is supposed to be the greatest RPG ever" thing wasn't hovering in the back of his mind the whole time.
But I think that's why it falls flat for me. For 50% of the game, Sephiroth is an idea, a storm that you keep chasing because you have to and if you don't, the worst will happen. You don't get an explanation from him or his "familiars" about why he's doing what he's doing or what he hopes to accomplish once he's finished, you just watch people picking up the pieces of his seemingly senseless rampage. That doesn't make a good villain. We see that everyday, on the news, in the streets; does some who brings a gun into a school and go on a murderous rampage make them a compelling villain? I don't think so. Without motive or context, it makes them a senseless monster.
Which, is an interesting story in itself, but it doesn't stick as a villain; an antagonist. FFX does the senseless mayhem story a lot better because the thing you fight against, the thing you chase, literally is a mindless senseless beast. The villains are the factions that are trying to deter you for whatever reason, which makes a more compelling moral quandry.
Hojo is a better villain than Sephiroth. Shinra, older and younger, were better villains. Shinra kills a couple thousand people to cover his tracks and you watch him do it. You know Rufus' motives and why he's a piece of shit and it really motivates you go after him. You can't reason with Sephiroth, though you spend most of the game trying to. It cheapens the chase.
But that's just...like...my opinion man.
Muffdraul
Member
That's always been the reason for the FFVII backlash. The backlash started about a month after it came out in the US and never really stopped.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Excellent explanation. Also remember that Sephiroth finished what Jenova started, wiping out the Cetra.
I don't even know why I'm bothering in a FF7 hate thread, of course it will bring out the vocal minority opinions.
Honestly, if you play through FF7, you'll know that the picture on the right fits Cloud WAAAAAAAAY better.
Spehornoob
Member
I like it.
Either way, though, Sephiroth was never cool because of his motives, he was a cool villain because of how brutal he was. Stabbing Aeris from mid-air, mind fucking Cloud constantly. At least, that was his appeal for me.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Speaking of games that are carried by nostalgia and are less good the more you think about it...
You don't understand shit about game development, do you?
I'll admit I didn't follow Cloud's story past FFVII. But I didn't really care to. Besides, confidence is sexy.
Muffdraul
Member
Fuck yeah, Sephiroth was at the center of FFVII's "coolness" factor I mentioned in my first post. Kefka was an awesome villain in his own right, arguably equal to Sephiroth. But not cool whatsoever. Dude was a literally a clown. Clowns are not cool, people.
John Rabbit
Banned
"guys how come a 16 year old videogame is no longer relevant?"
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