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[Boss Man]

You know that will never happen right?

We still don't know who either HW vendor is really targeting (in terms of demographics)

Can you not at least admit that this MAY not be a big deal to some consumers?

It may not be to some consumers, but obviously it's a huge deal. GAF wasn't the only place talking about this. It was big enough for MS to respond. Big enough for the employee on Twitter to bring it up. Big enough for ridicule from YouTube personalities who are followed by thousands of gamers. Big enough for a comment on an IGN article to get 10000 likes - I don't think I've ever even seen that happen for anything.

Fixed.

Thank you

 

[jay]

Well, there are values, then there are video game values. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of this conversation, but my point is that I don't feel any guilt over supporting a game or system accused of anti-consumer practices if I feel that the game or system in question is worth what it costs. I don't care about supporting any specific companies or about making a stand, I'm in this for myself.

That's fine, you should care about what you want to care about. My point was only that you are using the word wrong and sort of mocking the idea in doing so. Something you change based on personal interest is not a value. Some people see this as a consumer issue and not just a "gamer values" issue in the eye rolling sense.

 

[maltrain]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

 

[nib95]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

Not entirely sure if this is a serious post or not lol...

 

[ascii42]

I assume you are a big boy and can live without a few of the games you want to play...
There are plenty of games, almost all are multiplat and missing those few that are ms exclusive (assuming a few of them are worth playing) shouldn't matter at all.

Seeing people defend/rationalise/profess to accepting it from both angles is funny.
One angle is gaf is somehow the superhardcore and the average gamer don't care
Other angle is gaf is superhardcore (super addicted) and can't live without playing gears of war and halo so the average gamer will need that xbox to play those games as well.

So which is it.

There's enough good games out there, that you'll get by.

Boycotts aren't supposed to be painless.

I've never bothered with boycotts based on principle, at least not totally. I lose out from boycotting more than whomever I'm boycotting does. If I come to the conclusion that whatever MS enacts doesn't negatively affect me, I'll get the 720 at some point. Don't get me wrong, I do hope they don't do it for the sake of my fellow gamers whom it would negatively affect. If you look at my history, you'll see I'm no defender of the practice. I only think of just myself when it comes to my own purchasing decisions.

With that being said, if all the rumors are true, I think that I'll come to the conclusion that it does negatively affect me. At which point, I no longer consider it a boycott, because I'd be not buying it because I don't want the system. A boycott to me is refusing to buy a system that I would otherwise want to buy, based on some principle.

The biggest thing to me: I know I've said this in other thread, and many other people have brought it up in this one. What happens when the servers shut down? I regularly play old games, and love collecting games. I just bought a Master System on eBay a couple days ago. All of those games will work just as they did in the 80s. The idea of someday not being able to play any game for a system just bothers me.

So I guess if the rumors are true, it would create a situation somewhere in the middle. MS's stupid policies would create a system that I don't want to buy.

 

[Eusis]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

Controversial things stir up lots of discussion too. I can easily see this being a case where MS IS in that position... only for Consumers to sneak up from behind and stab them through.

That IS sort of what we had happen with Windows 8 come to think of it, isn't it? And the tablet UI's only half as controversial as you CAN ignore/work around it.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Well, there are values, then there are video game values. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of this conversation, but my point is that I don't feel any guilt over supporting a game or system accused of anti-consumer practices if I feel that the game or system in question is worth what it costs. I don't care about supporting any specific companies or about making a stand, I'm in this for myself.

Understandable, but just be aware that if you support anti-consumer moves like this then you're effectively fucking over yourself, and others, in the long run.

 

[shinobi602]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

 

[Minions]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

The only thing getting eclipsed is console relevancy. Look at it this way... the way it stands there is only one "next gen" console to choose from. The wii-u has no 3rd parties and is only getting ps3/360 ports, the xbox is using some batshit crazy always online/no used games strategy which is completely anti consumer. All the PS4 has to do is make an console with PC architecture and next gen graphics and they are basically being handed the next generation.

I almost wonder if Microsoft silence is foreboding a 2014 release instead of fall/winter 2013.

 

[saunderez]

I like to humour myself that early adopters are important.

I don't doubt there exists people who prefer either Microsoft or Sony first parties when they factor these into their decision making. For most people, it will just be a question of ' which system should I get?' and the most common answer will be 'wherever your friends are'.

Early adopters ARE important. The Wii U is losing publisher support because there aren't enough of them to make it worthwhile. It's ignorance to suggest Microsoft is somehow immune to this.

 

[Angry Fork]

It's cute that you think Microsoft gives a fuck about what GAF thinks.

I don't understand what this opinion is. Like do you think protesting any for-profit company is stupid because they 'don't care'? They may not but how does that mean you should continue to say nothing?

The internet can have huge, powerful resources for voicing discontent, sometimes it catch on in the mainstream, which this one has, as it forced 'Major Nelson' to give a statement and is on major news sites. EA may not have changed the way Sim City works, but if nobody said anything, a lot more people would have bought the game without warning.

I wish these resources could be used to voice criticism of this for-profit system in general but you take what you can get I guess, and at least the shittiest companies can get called out.

 

[neptunes]

I'm sorry I still think some people are overestimating the impact this may have on people.

If US gamers (and others WW) don't have a problem with paying X amount for Peer-to-Peer MP on XBL, I don't see how this will become a major issue for the masses. Especially when you the consider free alternatives to XBL (PSN)

If enticing software is there, people will buy it unfortunately, regardless of how us enthusiasts disagree with how it's delivered

 

[Snuggles]

Understandable, but just be aware that if you support anti-consumer moves like this then you're effectively fucking over yourself, and others, in the long run.

True, but I've also spent a lot money on DRM-free games and have spent FULL PRICE on many indie titles. I've supported the industry in it's many forms. And I will buy a controversial product if it appears to be worth it to me.

 

[Sera O]

That's irrelevant. By proxy we saw customers unable to play or return the game. The transaction was underhanded and customers deserve better.

Understand the core principle of any good business: the customer is the most important person in your company.

Demographics and broadband assessment alone can show us that there are many potential customers across the world that will not be in the ideal situation to play an online gate Durango.

The defense should have premises - which it currently doesn't because MS won't speak to it. The defense is currently, "not my problem" "deal with it" "sucks to be you". It's condescending, inaccurate, and worst of all, lazy.

Yes to the bolded.

How can requiring connection to an MS server, even for offline play, be seen as intrinsically beneficial? Until we know more, it's bizarre to unequivocally support the thing being crippled in comparison to what we have now and what Sony will be selling. They need to make a case for making it that way to the consumer.

MS may consider an always-online Durango to be customer-focused, but the customers are the publishers/developers who are worried about piracy and want to remove any obstruction to online purchases, and advertisers who will benefit from the consumer data they are gathering through restricting the use of the console.

Until actual information is released, saying "I support restricting the usefulness of this console!" from the consumer perspective doesn't make sense. Unless you enjoy the suspense of not knowing whether the item you bought will work, in the present and 10 years down the line, and that in itself is a selling point to you.

 

[makingmusic476]

I like to humour myself that early adopters are important.

I don't doubt there exists people who prefer either Microsoft or Sony first parties when they factor these into their decision making. For most people, it will just be a question of ' which system should I get?' and the most common answer will be 'wherever your friends are'.

And if the early adopters aren't adopting a certain system, the friends that bought consoles early (ie, early adopters) will necessarily be on the competing system.

 

[maltrain]

I'm sorry I still think some people are overestimating the impact this may have on people.

If US gamers (and others WW) don't have a problem with paying X amount for XBL, I don't see how this will become a major issue for the masses. Especially when the consider free alternatives to XBL (PSN)

If enticig software is there, people will buy it unfortunately, regardless of how us enthusiasts really disagree with it.

Do you really think the same amount of people it's considering to pay for online again when you see the features PS+ gives?

I really doubt it... in fact, I've read a lot of X360 owners who have said so on this same forum...

 

[Truespeed]

This thread has exploded. Is he still with the company or did he get forked and repo'd?

 

[Usobuko]

Early adopters ARE important. The Wii U is losing publisher support because there aren't enough of them to make it worthwhile. It's ignorance to suggest Microsoft is somehow immune to this.

Exactly, I was arguing IN FAVOUR of early adopters.

 

[Cidd]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

 

[Minions]

I'm sorry I still think some people are overestimating the impact this may have on people.

If US gamers (and others WW) don't have a problem with paying X amount for XBL, I don't see how this will become a major issue for the masses. Especially when you the consider free alternatives to XBL (PSN)

If enticing software is there, people will buy it unfortunately, regardless of how us enthusiasts disagree with how it's delivered

Believe it or not some parents want to keep their kids offline. For various reasons.... potential related to them all cursing like sailors and joining in on "gang" mentality. Lots of kids are bully/bullied at all ages. I wouldn't want my kid on live under the age of 14 or so to be perfectly honest.

 

[saunderez]

Exactly, I was arguing IN FAVOUR of early adopters.

My bad. I misread your post, sorry for arguing with nobody.

 

[Replicant]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

If by 'hype' you meant something like this then yeah:

 

[Kaako]

^^God dayumn. Dat assphalt face-plant.

 

[Eusis]

Also don't forget: Sony seemed like they were unassailable from the top of Mount Olympus with the PS2.

Then they danced on the edge and tumbled all the way down by pricing the PS3 at $499.99 and $599.99. ANYONE can stumble and fall behind or outright fail from the right slipup, and requiring always online can very easily be just that for Microsoft.

 

[everyday math]

If by 'hype' you meant something like this then yeah:

WTF? Where is that gif from?

 

[Truespeed]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

 

[shamanick]

Neogaf falls for trolls more often than people get cornballed.

10/10 would read again

 

[Auto_aim1]

If by 'hype' you meant something like this then yeah:

Damn.

 

[Wickerbasket]

True, but I've also spent a lot money on DRM-free games and have spent FULL PRICE on many indie titles. I've supported the industry in it's many forms. And I will buy a controversial product if it appears to be worth it to me.

You're perfectly within your right to spend your money on whatever you want. I'm just saying that if enough people support anti-consumer practices like this then it becomes worse for everyone who enjoys the hobby as a whole.

I can understand that some people don't care what happens in the long run as long as they get to play the games that they want but I don't like supporting business practices that I feel worsen my hobby, regardless of how appealing some of the games may be.

 

[Replicant]

WTF? Where is that gif from?

Mexican ambulance fail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bWxA0OiA0

 

[everyday math]

Mexican ambulance fail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bWxA0OiA0

Owww

 

[beast786]

We will all forget this by November .

 

[saunderez]

We will all forget this by November .

We might if they don't go ahead with it. But at this stage their silence is deafening.

 

[Valkyria]

We will all forget this by November .

How are we gonna forget that the system we are suppose to buy will require us to have a competent connection? Ain't forgetting that I need fuel for my car.

 

[Cidd]

We will all forget this by November .

If this is confirmed, Sure we will....

 

[farisr]

Oh wow, I can't believe the whole "sweet billy" thing ended up being substantiated by Adam Orth himself on GAF! I was taking that whole bit with a big grain of salt because it seemed kinda ludicrous.

When the sweet billy neogaf post was unveiled, that was honestly the highlight of this thread for me.

I was there when the reddit post went up and was thinking it's BS when the guy started saying he wanted people to call him Sweet Billy 13 years ago.

Then, lo and behold, a neogaf post from only 6 years ago shows up with a user named sweet billy starting off by saying he's adam orth and I lost it.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

Contrary to the popular anecdote, there is actually such thing as bad publicity.

Sony could easily win this round again by taking advantage of Orth's blunder.

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

The silence helps fuel XB720 hype levels. The fact this has ignited a firestorm just confirms Microsoft is the backbone of the video game industry. The Playstation brand is being totally eclipsed by the Xbox brand. So far XB720 has gotten more attention than the PS4 and Microsoft hasn't even shown any of their cards. MS has a garrot around the PS4s throat and air is running out.

You're delusional.

 

[Truespeed]

We will all forget this by November .

I doubt that very much. Needing electricity is the new replacement for the needing 2 jobs

 

[shinobi602]

We will all forget this by November .

I'll definitely forget about the Xbox.

 

[neptunes]

How are we gonna forget that the system we are suppose to buy will require us to have a competent connection? Ain't forgetting that I need fuel for my car.

If this is confirmed, Sure we will....

Were you planning on buying the system in the first place?

What happens if 3rd party publishers mandate and online connection on either system?

 

[ascii42]

How are we gonna forget that the system we are suppose to buy will require us to have a competent connection? Ain't forgetting that I need fuel for my car.

Given the nature of this thread, he could be referring to anything. I doubt we'll remember much about the Adam Orth or Arthur Gies statements. (granted, this is NeoGaf, we don't forget much here).

 

[Brimstone]

The only thing getting eclipsed is console relevancy. Look at it this way... the way it stands there is only one "next gen" console to choose from. The wii-u has no 3rd parties and is only getting ps3/360 ports, the xbox is using some batshit crazy always online/no used games strategy which is completely anti consumer. All the PS4 has to do is make an console with PC architecture and next gen graphics and they are basically being handed the next generation.

I almost wonder if Microsoft silence is foreboding a 2014 release instead of fall/winter 2013.

Sony has shown great attention to detail with the PS4. It is very impressive and the controller with improved rumble has me hyped. I think John Carmack is spot on with his observations. Occulous Rift is something Sony can clone for the PS4 and propel console relevancy.

 

[Kaako]

We will all forget this by November .

Totally bro and Jesus was an Uzbekistani Leprechaun.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Given the nature of this thread, he could be referring to anything. I doubt we'll remember much about the Adam Orth or Arthur Gies statements. (granted, this is NeoGaf, we don't forget much here).

Given how often Arthur Gies likes to make a fool of himself, I don't think Neogaf will forget about him any time soon.

 

[Valkyria]

Were you planning on buying the system in the first place?

Of course.

 

[maltrain]

We will all forget this by November .

For sure... while we play with our PS4.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Were you planning on buying the system in the first place?

What happens if 3rd party publishers mandate and online connection on either system?

People might actually buy the Wii U if that happened.

I'd probably give up gaming on consoles and stick to PC.

 

[Minions]

Sony has shown great attention to detail with the PS4. It is very impressive and the controller with improved rumble has me hyped. I think John Carmack is spot on with his observations. Occulous Rift is something Sony can clone for the PS4 and propel console relevancy.

I just meant as far as the console outlook is concerned, Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot, and the Wii-u has no 3rd party support. Kinda bleak outlook to be honest. I'd rather Microsoft start making some thought out decisions instead of pulling a second windows 8 disaster in a row.

(Keep in mind they now have an office subscription service office 360.... and have stated they don't plan to release non-subscription based office versions in the future...... I feel they have almost completely lost relevancy in the PC market. Go open office instead?)

 

[troushers]

No idea what a garrot is, but I guess it's a good thing it's not a garrotte.

Among ornithologists, it's a gay parrot. Not sure it would do anything to someone's throat. Perhaps it would be uncomfortable?

This thread is really cheering me up. I'm still enjoying the defensive comment from a few pages back that "my power goes out more than my Internet". What does their router run on? Solar panels? A waterwheel?