Support NeoGAF

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

It would probably be a good idea to create a separate topic for people to rage in when the OT goes up.

If not, it will probably be filled with people who have little interest in discussing the actual game drive by posting and trying to bait others into arguments which if I remember correctly is against the TOS.

 

[Rickenslacker]

But she stores her mana there.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

This game has probably gotten most of its publicity just from this semi-controversial character design. Brilliant!

 

[Salsa]

I don't like it, I hate it, I won't play it, but here's my 2 cents about it!

yeah, it's a forum

 

[QisTopTier]

A
The video showed her as the only playable character and all of the pictoral replies in the thread were of her. If she's just one of many playable characters, that would certainly make playing the game a better experience (assuming not all character models were like hers), though it doesn't really change anything in terms of the critiques against her model.

There are 6 playable characters

 

[Ken]

It would probably be a good idea to create a separate topic for people to rage in when the OT goes up.

If not, it will probably be filled with people who have little interest in discussing the actual game drive by posting and trying to bait others into arguments which if I remember correctly is against the TOS.

Na, Senran Kagura OT had little of that.

 

[Tomat]

It would probably be a good idea to create a separate topic for people to rage in when the OT goes up.

If not, it will probably be filled with people who have little interest in discussing the actual game drive by posting and trying to bait others into arguments which if I remember correctly is against the TOS.

I was wondering about this too, but I cannot imagine a misogyny/sexism in games thread on here (or most places on the internet period) going well at all. It's a very heated topic that a lot of people are super passionate about. I'm not against something like that existing, but I have my doubts about how effective it would be.

 

[Risette]

This game has probably gotten most of its publicity just from this semi-controversial character design. Brilliant!

guerrilla marketing

 

[Pimpbaa]

Oh, I'm not allowed to laugh at a character model because I hadn't heard of it before this thread? Fucking interesting rules you've got here.

Well if you had seen the fucking game before at least you would see how this game has odd proportions for all the characters (and it seems you still haven't looked at the other characters). Hell, all Vanillaware games are like that. You seen one fucking character (that you don't have to play as) and deemed the game trash.

 

[Salsa]

It would probably be a good idea to create a separate topic for people to rage in when the OT goes up.

If not, it will probably be filled with people who have little interest in discussing the actual game drive by posting and trying to bait others into arguments which if I remember correctly is against the TOS.

MikeWorks came in and said this:

Never heard of this game/series, got through about 20 seconds of the trailer.

That would be god damn embarrassing to play.

he didnt say anything else

the defense force jumped on him with some god damn ridiculous arguments like "but boobs like that exist in the real world so its okay"

if people cared about keeping this thread about the game shouldnt they just ignore him, or leave him be with his opinion?

people complaining arent crapping up the thread, it's the people defending it

 

[Fusebox]

Why do the guys all have to be so muscley? I'm not speaking to the author's intent. I'm speaking to how most men would interpret this. Most men would look at art of the dwarf, and see it as the statement, "Big muscles are what's desirable in men."

But no, we had to turn into a gender war, one set of rules for the men and another for the women. Why do you hate equality Mike?

 

[GraveRobberX]

yeah, it's a forum

So discuss the trailer, why is it getting derailed?

I think 2 of the guys through this whole thread have talked about her magic and how she will play out in the large scale of the game

Yet this thread has blown up due to White Knights who are either pussy whipped, ashamed to play their hobby in public or view by the family/peers playing this, or the new breed who magically speak on behalf of woman, because they both have the same things in common, a vagina between their legs

I hear the ban hammer noise coming

Loves ya'll, see you soon, hopefully!

 

[Salsa]

So discuss the trailer, why is it getting derailed?

I think 2 of the guys through this whole thread have talked about her magic and how she will play out in the large scale of the game

If you are making a good game yet all people talk about is fucking embarrasing character design then they have a problem. Sorry.

And I dont get how discussing character design is "derailing" when its.. in the trailer?


not even gonna quote that ridiculous second part

 

[Sage00]

MikeWorks came in and said this:



he didnt say anything else

the defense force jumped on him with some god damn ridiculous arguments like "but boobs like that exist in the real world so its okay"

if people cared about keeping this thread about the game shouldnt they just ignore him, or leave him be with his opinion?

people complaining arent crapping up the thread, it's the people defending it

Your posts are the worst in here. They're all complaints aimed at posters on the opposing side of the argument from you which could be levied at yourself and others while making drive-by comments and defending the very same thing - please drop it.

 

[JordanN]

It's an absolutely ludicrous character design. It's a joke. Nerd fantasy.

I'm looking at my game library right now: the women in Skyrim mostly have big breasts and cleavage and I'm fine with that. Don't get embarrassed. Because they look like real women with big breasts. I wouldn't mind at all if they were "de-sexualized" to a point, but it's not at a ludicrous level given the general sexualization of media in general (films, TV, comics, games, etc).

There's an actual Japanese gravure with natural jugs that big. It also happens to run in the family since even her mother has bigger tits.

Edit: Looking at Sorceress again, I actually think hers are smaller than the idol.

 

[Haly]

people complaining arent crapping up the thread, it's the people defending it

Pretty sure the thread went something like this:

Sorceress trailer release
omg she so fine day 1
OBJECTIFICATION OF WOMEN
10 page shit storm where we painstakingly explain what the difference is between artistic exaggeration and pandering
OBJECTIFICATION OF WOMEN side backs out
Thread gets back on track, talking about the game, gushing over Kamitani, all is right with the world
MikeWorks comes in to stir the embers up all over again with an offhand remark based solely on the trailer and nothing else

And you're blaming us? Really?

 

[GraveRobberX]

If you are making a good game yet all people talk about is fucking embarrasing character design then they have a problem. Sorry.

And I dont get how discussing character design is "derailing" when its.. in the trailer?

We had this discussion multiple times

This is nothing new

Dragon's Crown has been announced for over a year+
We had these discussions
We had the debates

It just keeps getting recycled, that's the problem

 

[Salsa]

Your posts are the worst in here. They're all complaints aimed at posters on the opposing side of the argument from you which could be levied at yourself and others while making drive-by comments yourself - please drop it.

how could they be levied at me? do explain

im jumping in here because beyond this crap I actually am interested in the game, or at least to see how it plays, but when im coming across someone with an opinion similar to mine struggling to discuss it with people slinging bullshit arguments then I kinda want to participate. My bad.

 

[Mike Works]

the title pretty much says that it's a character specific trailer i dunno

My eyes read it as "Dragon's Crown Sorceress", which doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but all this doesn't change a huge amount. She's still a main playable character, and my criticisms/observations probably don't change that much given that shift. I suppose I could edit my first remark to something along the lines of, "I'd be embarrassed to play that character class in public"?

Then what are you doing in this thread still?

I'm having a discussion. This is a discussion forum.

Trolling for Trolling sakes

Give me a break. If I was trolling, you'd know. I haven't made any sweeping accusations about "the type of people" who play this kind of game, or what they get out of her character, or anything along trolling lines. The video/character provided a strong enough reaction within me that I felt like expressing my opinion. Some have challenged me on it, and I'm discussing it with them.

I don't like it, I hate it, I won't play it, but here's my 2 cents about it!, cause somehow my opinion is valid on a fucking trailer that is showing off the classes of the game

I never said I hated it. I said I'd be embarrassed to play it. And part of the reason I felt like expressing my opinion was because - character model aside - I thought the gameplay looked pretty fun. But I couldn't get past the sexual glorification and over-exploitation of the character model. Which I thought was interesting. And here we are!

Jesus Mike now I know why Evilore de-modded your ass

I got de-admin'ed because I changed all of the nouns in the thread titles on the front page to "Nintendogs". Not exactly the same thing

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Guys I can understand why you find the sorceress and amazon so voluptuous but everyone knows the archer is the best looking:

 

[Salsa]

Pretty sure the thread went something like this:

Sorceress trailer release
omg she so fine day 1
OBJECTIFICATION OF WOMEN
10 page shit storm where we painstakingly explain what the difference is between artistic exaggeration and pandering
OBJECTIFICATION OF WOMEN side backs out
Thread gets back on track, talking about the game, gushing over Kamitani, all is right with the world
MikeWorks comes in to stir the embers up all over again with an offhand remark based solely on the trailer and nothing else

And you're blaming us? Really?

We had this discussion multiple times

This is nothing new

Dragon's Crown has been announced for over a year+
We had these discussions
We had the debates

It just keeps getting recycled, that's the problem

the game still has that ridiculous character design, you/the game just have to deal with people coming in here every now and then and bitching about it, it is what it is. It's not like because an argument has already been discussed it suddenly cant pop up again brought over by a different person.

if you guys dont wanna have that discussion again then just ignore the (as haly says) off-hand comments.

 

[Risette]

My eyes read it as "Dragon's Crown Sorceress", which doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but all this doesn't change a huge amount. She's still a main playable character, and my criticisms/observations probably don't change that much given that shift. I suppose I could edit my first remark to something along the lines of, "I'd be embarrassed to play that character class in public"?

that works, works

 

[jdl]

the game still has that ridiculous character design, you/the game just have to deal with people coming in here every now and then and bitching about it, it is what it is. It's not like because an argument has already been discussed it suddenly cant pop up again brought over by a different person.

if you guys dont wanna have that discussion again then just ignore the (as haly says) off-hand comments.

we have to pass the time until august somehow.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Are the other characters skinny guys with 10 foot cocks bursting out of their pants? I must have missed those NPC's. Maybe they came later in the video? Or are you talking about the walking skeletons or huge muscle men or any other character that doesn't come close to correlating with completely and jokingly overt over-sexualization of the witch?

But feel free to point out how the other characters have impossible proportions too. That'll definitely change some opinions in regards to the hyper-sexualization.


The video showed her as the only playable character and all of the pictoral replies in the thread were of her. If she's just one of many playable characters, that would certainly make playing the game a better experience (assuming not all character models were like hers), though it doesn't really change anything in terms of the critiques against her model.


Oh, I'm not allowed to laugh at a character model because I hadn't heard of it before this thread? Fucking interesting rules you've got here.


I'm not standing up for any cause. I don't care if games like this get made. I just won't play them and nothing at all will change.


You're painting a broaaaaaaaad stroke there, bud. There are definitely white knights on GAF and feminism + videogames has become a hot button topic over the past month or two, but some of us just want to laugh and roll our eyes at the ridiculousness of that fucking witch.

Mike, if you care to actually learn more about this game instead of just one character, please do so. You've got google and it will point you towards all sorts of info.

If you care to only incessantly criticize this one part of the game with blindfolds about everything else, why bother doing what you are doing? Yes, the game has a ridiculously overly-sexualized character. Maybe you really hate the idea of women being portrayed as ridiculously sexualized or something. If that's your thing, then fine. If that stuff embarrasses you immediately and you have no will to look past it or even the context of it, then why bother continuing to express your opinion on it when it's so clear? There is stuff in video games that I too would write off the entire game from one small part. But if I found it, I wouldn't constantly express how embarrassing I find it and be unwilling to look at the game as a whole. I'd either challenge my perception or just leave it be.

 

[Sage00]

This 'embarrassed to play it' guff reminds me of the views Nintendo faced during the GameCube era for its 'kiddy' games - a criticism on the level of a twelve year old trying (and failing) to act more mature.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I think we can all agree that the bust size is ridiculous, but that's part of it's appeal (kind of like One Piece) and we all know it's over the top.

Now we're gonna step past it and wonder if it's gonna be an even better Shadows of Mystaria/Guardian Force clone or not...

 

[Giolon]

The video showed her as the only playable character and all of the pictoral replies in the thread were of her. If she's just one of many playable characters, that would certainly make playing the game a better experience (assuming not all character models were like hers), though it doesn't really change anything in terms of the critiques against her model.

The Fighter got his trailer first, and there was a thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=52749333

Thread didn't even make it 2 pages b/c it had no ridiculous boobs.

 

[Haly]

The Fighter got his trailer first, and there was a thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=52749333

Thread didn't even make it 2 pages b/c it had no ridiculous boobs.

Looking at that, it actually did have boobs.

Dem snake tits.

 

[GenoZStriker]

I really like the art of the game. The character design doesn't bother me since her spells stand out so much from due to the flashy colors. Hope they release the others soon. I am interested in seeing how the archer works.

 

[Fusebox]

Look, we all know there are women that have natural breasts that large in real life, it happens, this is a medical fact. So the real question is, why doesn't she use her magic to reduce them? Either her magic isn't strong enough to do that, or maybe she uses her magic to remove her back pain instead because she doesn't have a problem with them, maybe she loves the feel of warm dragon-flame across her cleavage, maybe her magic actually comes from her breasts like Samson and his hair. Point is, without asking her it's all just a bunch of malarky.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Guys I can understand why you find the sorceress and amazon so voluptuous but everyone knows the archer is the best looking:
http://mangadrawing.net/users/image...-s-crown.a3dd41f695a6a5ec9b609e829e44b1b9.jpg

That pic ain't accurate, she ain't got no boobs in the game. You know, she could be a character a person could play her if they wrongly thing that large swaying is wrong or something.

 

[GraveRobberX]

the game still has that ridiculous character design, you/the game just have to deal with people coming in here every now and then and bitching about it, it is what it is. It's not like because an argument has already been discussed it suddenly cant pop up again brought over by a different person.

It's not going to change, we have known since they revealed the damn game, that is based in a fantasy world, where shit is exaggerated beyond means, you get to enjoy the gorgeous art/world with a bonus of getting a little titillating action on the side

if you guys dont wanna have that discussion again then just ignore the (as haly says) off-hand comments.

No, ignoring just leaves more people to come in chime in and going HOLY SHIT those BOOBS, I'm Offended!
No one fucking reads up on game info anymore

I have never heard of Vanillaware (I apologize to those that know of them), once DC was shown, I went ape shit trying to feed my knowledge about the game and other things VW has produced
I educated myself why the art is the way it is, why VW is considered a cool dev, etc.

That's the problem, most complain without educating themselves about the basics about the game and why it is the way it is
You are judging it by a mere 1 minute Class Reveal Trailer

It would be like me coming in and saying such and such suck, because from the 1 minute video I have deduced that this is vulgar and might offend others, and therefore I'm offended

Looking at that, it actually did have boobs.

Dem snake tits.

Very Perky Nipples

Daddy Likes...

ZOMG I'm a Misogynist for thinking that, cuff me and send me to Anita's Re-Education camp!

 

[Mike Works]

A lot to respond to - I'll get back to the discussion after I finish my work.

 

[not psycho]

I'm looking at my game library right now: the women in Skyrim mostly have big breasts and cleavage and I'm fine with that. Don't get embarrassed. Because they look like real women with big breasts. I wouldn't mind at all if they were "de-sexualized" to a point, but it's not at a ludicrous level given the general sexualization of media in general (films, TV, comics, games, etc).

As I suspected.

This sexualized, exaggerated style doesn't appeal to you, so you conclude it must be morally wrong. Because clearly appealing to you is a moral obligation.

But if had been sexualized in a way that did appeal to you (and to more people overall, lots of people think the exaggeration goes too far to be appealing) then you would be, and I quote, "fine with that."

So essentially, if the artist pandered to you by abandoning their vision and making the character standard sexy for a wider audience, you'd be all for it. But by sticking to their vision and using exaggeration that some find off-putting, you call that pandering.

I'd be interested in what people that hate this think of Paul Robertson. I'd link his tumblr but it's really, really NSFW. He uses even greater sexual exaggeration. But at the same time I think he is popular with both men and women and even had animation in an episode of Gravity Falls.

 

[Tomat]

Can I portbeg this for the 3DS?

 

[Fusebox]

Mike turns off Mad Men whenever Christina Hendricks comes onto the screen.

Which coincidentally is about the same time I come onto the screen.

*boom-tish*

 

[Risette]

Look, we all know there are women that have natural breasts that large in real life, it happens, this is a medical fact. So the real question is, why doesn't she use her magic to reduce them? Either her magic isn't strong enough to do that, or maybe she uses her magic to remove her back pain instead because she doesn't have a problem with them, maybe she loves the feel of warm dragon-flame across her cleavage, maybe her magic actually comes from her breasts like Samson and his hair. Point is, without asking her it's all just a bunch of malarky.

She's using magic to keep them inside that strange corset (?)

 

[Fusebox]

She's using magic to keep them inside that strange corset (?)

Breastius Controlius!

 

[ReeseHoward]

These designs are dope. Has a nice storybook feel to them.

 

[Salsa]

It's not going to change, we have known since they revealed the damn game, that is based in a fantasy world, where shit is exaggerated beyond means, you get to enjoy the gorgeous art/world with a bonus of getting a little titillating action on the side



No, ignoring just leaves more people to come in chime in and going HOLY SHIT those BOOBS, I'm Offended!
No one fucking reads up on game info anymore

I have never heard of Vanillaware (I apologize to those that know of them), once DC was shown, I went ape shit trying to feed my knowledge about the game and other things VW has produced
I educated myself why the art is the way it is, why VW is considered a cool dev, etc.

That's the problem, most complain without educating themselves about the basics about the game and why it is the way it is
You are judging it by a mere 1 minute Class Reveal Trailer

It would be like me coming in and saying such and such suck, because from the 1 minute video I have deduced that this is vulgar and might offend others, and therefore I'm offended



Very Perky Nipples

Daddy Likes...

ZOMG I'm a Misogynist for thinking that, cuff me and send me to Anita's Re-Education camp!

:|

I know what this game and what Vanillaware are. I played Odin's Sphere, Muramasa, and even Grand Knights History.

This still bothers me, you're responding as if everyone was calling people playing this game some sort of womanizer sexist where most of what people are saying is that they just dont fucking like it.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Look, we all know there are women that have natural breasts that large in real life, it happens, this is a medical fact. So the real question is, why doesn't she use her magic to reduce them? Either her magic isn't strong enough to do that, or maybe she uses her magic to remove her back pain instead because she doesn't have a problem with them, maybe she loves the feel of warm dragon-flame across her cleavage, maybe her magic actually comes from her breasts like Samson and his hair. Point is, without asking her it's all just a bunch of malarky.

She is clearly using some sort of levitation spell.

 

[Rocwell]

I don't mind her boobs. Her shoes on the other hand look atrocious with that outfit. Girl needs to hire a stylist mmhmm.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Na, Senran Kagura OT had little of that.

I am surprised. I would have thought it would have been derailed pretty quickly. Good to see that didn't turn out to be the case.

I was wondering about this too, but I cannot imagine a misogyny/sexism in games thread on here (or most places on the internet period) going well at all. It's a very heated topic that a lot of people are super passionate about. I'm not against something like that existing, but I have my doubts about how effective it would be.

When I made the suggestion I had in mind the goal of providing a place for people to discuss these issues without clogging up the OT thread. Naturally it's effectiveness would depend on the conduct of the the thread's participants. Some threads that have popped up in recent weeks have given me the impression that a civil tone would most likely not be maintained for long though.

MikeWorks came in and said this:



he didnt say anything else

the defense force jumped on him with some god damn ridiculous arguments like "but boobs like that exist in the real world so its okay"

if people cared about keeping this thread about the game shouldnt they just ignore him, or leave him be with his opinion?

people complaining aren't crapping up the thread, it's the people defending it

You're right in a way. If people simply kept on topic instead of "fanning the flames" (I'm guilty of this) this thread probably wouldn't be at 15 pages right now.

Maybe that should be mentioned in the OT when it goes up. I expect that people will make one off posts stating their disapproval of the game in the OT, but it's also part of the OT members responsibility to maintain an amicable atmosphere in which the various aspects of the game can be discussed.

I'd hate to see a situation where the OT gets derailed endlessly into repeating arguments because it wouldn't be fair to those who want to discuss the actual game. That's why I think a dedicated thread would be better to facilitate discussions surrounding sexuality in games.

However, if the Senran Kagura OT managed to avoid being completely derailed, I have a feeling Dragon's Crown's will be fine.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Can I portbeg this for the 3DS?

No it would look ugly. I wonder if the people saying they are being offended by some breasts are going to buy GTAV in September?

 

[akachan ningen]

why are so many people anti-titty?

 

[Tomat]

No it would look ugly. I wonder if the people saying they are being offended by some breasts are going to buy GTAV in September?

I was sorta wondering about this actually, since it's a 2D game would it really suffer from a smaller resolution?

 

[Sage00]

The Sorceress character is actually the same character as the elven archer who has learned to master magic. She was self-conscious about the size of her breasts and so enacts a spell which makes the player see them as we do. Later she'll learn that by reducing the size of her breasts, and therefore her hitbox, she can make better use of the skills she has and feel good about herself.

 

[Salsa]

You're right in a way. If people simply kept on topic instead of "fanning the flames" (I'm guilty of this) this thread probably wouldn't be at 15 pages right now.

Maybe that should be mentioned in the OT when it goes up. I expect that people will make one off posts stating their disapproval of the game in the OT, but it's also part of the OT members responsibility to maintain an amicable atmosphere in which the various aspects of the game can be discussed.

I'd hate to see a situation where the OT gets derailed endlessly into repeating arguments because it wouldn't be fair to those who want to discuss the actual game. That's why I think a dedicated thread would be better to facilitate discussions surrounding sexuality in games.

However, if the Senran Kagura OT managed to avoid being completely derailed, I have a feeling Dragon's Crown's will be fine.

the OT would eventually be moved to community where people who arent actively looking for the game probably wont come across it

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Guys I can understand why you find the sorceress and amazon so voluptuous but everyone knows the archer is the best looking:

of course she's the best!


Has anyone seen that futa doujin of the Sorceress/Amazon, it's amazing

 

[Pimpbaa]

why are so many people anti-titty?

Feminist parent upbringing? Insecure girlfriend? Lack of sex drive?