Support NeoGAF

[Dave Meltzer]

I'm going to regret asking, but how did he "ruin" Nintendo?

Everything devolved in to being based around gimmicks rather than improving the core experience. When Nintendo ignore gimmicks (Mario Galaxy) they still make fantastic games, when they feel the need to tack things on to justify the gimmick at the time (Skyward Sword) it's directly negatively impacting the quality of games I want to enjoy.

Not to mention it's under his watch Nintendo have completely failed to remain relevant in the online area. Don't get me started on their digital distribution policies.

 

[shinra-bansho]

As said in the other thread, we'll know tomorrow. But I can't see that analyst prediction for the next fiscal year panning out if they need to cut the Wii U price (which they do.)

Also, I thought they already accounted for most of the currency gains the yen had afforded last quarter?

It should be updated soon, not many of us really knew how much that was in US dollars.

So? It says Yen clearly. Google it.

If anything, news and games sites need to stop reporting everything converted.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Why does anyone even care about iwata? Talk about tears of impotent rage. If you are reveling in Nintendo's suckitude, shouldn't you want Iwata to stay so Nintendo continues to suck? Iwata has presided over like the first losses in Nintendo's history. I say promote him!

Hear hear! I say make every employee Iwata!

I'm not sure what removing Satoru Iwata as CEO accomplishes for the company. There probably isn't anyone internally qualified for the position of being this global ambassador and leader. There is an entire contingency in the Board of Directors making executive and creative decisions for the entire company. Truth be told, they are all 60-75 years old. Not a young globalized group by any means.

Sometimes I think Nintendo's talented development teams persevere despite all the stringent and ancient constructs placed on them by older managers (miyamoto). Sure Miyamoto and Tezuka were great game designers in the 70s and 80s, but times change and people less far removed from current technology, hands-on gaming, and digital trends should have much more autonomy.

Bolded is sort of Japan in general. Young workers striving to do anything within the constrains of elder management.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

if the Wii U matched up with the PS4 spec for spec...would it have change anything over the last 6 months?

Last six months? Perhaps nothing significantly changes BUT Nintendo would most likely have better third party support going forward which would be big.

 

[HoJu]

CEO's are not product launches.

(Reggie walks out on stage at E3)

Reggie: "Well the wait is over (reaches into his pocket). This is Nintendo's new CEO!"

 

[Neon_Icarus]

The Company That Would Be Sega

Hey guys, you know what we haven't been doing? Spending enough money. Let's recover from a massive loss by scrapping the Wii U we spent millions on, upping the cost of development by a substantial amount for all our titles, and plunge into the crowded tech-race market in a "me too!" movement that would surely give something for Iwata to laugh about in all his spare time.

You need a better sarcasm detector.

 

[AzaK]

It must be painful. Having third parties bail, your own games delayed and so people don't buy your machine. Then, you have to hold on to whatever you've got until mid year because the competition are coming and you need *something* to try and make some sort of mark.

 

[devildog820]

Ruined a company many of us used to like

You don't think Yamauchi had (has?) a big hand in that? Nintendo is a conservative company. Iwata may have to go because that's how CEOs are handled when they post losses, but he inherited a barge that's not easy to turn around.

 

[frankie_baby]

if the Wii U matched up with the PS4 spec for spec...would it have change anything over the last 6 months? (no)

lost them a fuckload more money

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Everything devolved in to being based around gimmicks rather than improving the core experience. When Nintendo ignore gimmicks (Mario Galaxy) they still make fantastic games, when they feel the need to tack things on to justify the gimmick at the time (Skyward Sword) it's directly negatively impacting the quality of games I want to enjoy.

Not to mention it's under his watch Nintendo have completely failed to remain relevant in the online area. Don't get me started on their digital distribution policies.

Funny because IMO Mario Galaxy was based on one big gimmick (the Wiimote). It's one reason I am so excited for the new Mario 3D. No Wiimote gimmick required, hopefully.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Everything devolved in to being based around gimmicks rather than improving the core experience. When Nintendo ignore gimmicks (Mario Galaxy) they still make fantastic games, when they feel the need to tack things on to justify the gimmick at the time (Skyward Sword) it's directly negatively impacting the quality of games I want to enjoy.

Not to mention it's under his watch Nintendo have completely failed to remain relevant in the online area. Don't get me started on their digital distribution policies.

Planets/gravity are a gimmick. They may be a gimmick you like, but they are a gimmick.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Nintendo on they John Carter ish

 

[Iacobellis]

"Reggie walks out on stage at E3"

Reggie: "Well the wait is over (reaches into his pocket). This is Nintendo's new CEO!"

No no, it's like this.

Iwata: "You wait for, new CEO?"

*Reaches into coat pocket*

Iwata: "Well, we got one!"

Audience: "ANZNDOWOWLLAMSMXMMSWPAPLASMZMMZZJSLSKSMSLWPPQXMKDJSKWOZMSM!"

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Planets/gravity are a gimmick. They may be a gimmick you like, but they are a gimmick.

That too. Thanks. There are countless gimmicks in gaming, just depends if you like them or not.

 

[Kelegacy]

Oh please, Iwata be fired. I want a better direction for the company. I lost all faith in Nintendo during the Wii years. I'm a Nintendo fan expatriate.

Get out, let someone else have a shot.

 

[Meier]

Pretty confused by this currency change - how does it affect their current total loss?

They've been getting hammered in recent years due to the fact they have a lot of cash in USD and the USD's value had gone down significantly compared to the JPY. Now that it's getting back closer to 100 to 1, they're in theory making some money back although it's always just been sitting there.

 

[Pikma]

I'm not reveling in Nintendo's shitness.

I'd like him to go and somebody who isn't shit to take over so I can enjoy Nintendo games again.

I'm not even defending Iwata, but you ever wondered if he's certainly the problem? Like what if his replacement decides to kill portable gaming and put all those resources on iOS f2p projects? Would you be happy with that?

 

[mantidor]

if the Wii U matched up with the PS4 spec for spec...would it have change anything over the last 6 months? (no)

Well, Nintendo would have bleed out more money to start.

But this is the thread full of "experts", I do indeed wonder how this usual crowd would take the news of Iwata not leaving next year.

 

[javac]

Everything devolved in to being based around gimmicks rather than improving the core experience. When Nintendo ignore gimmicks (Mario Galaxy) they still make fantastic games

Wut, galaxy is always used by the 'Gimmick haters' as a game that uses unnecessary gimmicks in its control scheme. If the boot fits and all that.

 

[Schnozberry]

I'm not reveling in Nintendo's shitness.

I'd like him to go and somebody who isn't shit to take over so I can enjoy Nintendo games again.

And do what exactly? Release games like they used to make? The ones everybody stopped buying?

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Change the team. The Link to the Past was a perfect difficulty and had amazing dungeons. Nintendo is on a jag where difficulty is not their focus so they can focus on a larger casual audience. This isn't a controversial opinion.

Like what you like, but arguing that many like something, or sidestepping by trying to alter the focus by saying my argument is "all over the place" when I never claimed it was a singular issue reflects back on you.

I'm not arguing anything really, just trying to get a better idea of where you think Zelda should be going, it's always interesting. Hey, maybe LttP2 will be more your cup of tea if that's your idea of the Zelda plateau it should aim for.

If I could levy one criticism against the Zelda series recently, it's the frustrating emphasis on the controls; they focus so much on reminding you you're playing the game on the DS & Wii, it takes away from all other aspects of the title. The sentiment behind SS/PH were good (the stylus/wiimote is your sword! Awesome!), but it really lacked in execution, and ended up being more of a hindrance. I know playing it "safe" is frowned upon, but there's such a thing as playing it too dangerous as well.

A LttP sequel and a really nice looking HD Zelda like we got in the demo a few years back is exactly what the series needs, I think.

And also, thank god for the return of buttons <3

Wut, galaxy is always used by the 'Gimmick haters' as a game that uses unnecessary gimmicks in its control scheme. If the boot fits and all that.

One of the very few titles where you forget the motion control is there. The subtle flick to spin motion really chimed with the platforming seamlessly.

 

[Darryl]

I'm going to regret asking, but how did he "ruin" Nintendo?

he refused to let nintendos image grow up with his audience

 

[AniHawk]

Even with Iwata's target being for the next fiscal year, going from 18.7 billion net loss to 100 billion net income looks like an even harder stretch goal now. With the Wii U selling as badly and a price cut might make the prospects even worse in the short term, I'm not sure he's banking on.

Everything will ride on the 3DS and its monstrous holiday line-up. No wonder they've been giving it all the attention.

pokemon sells 14m units
mario & luigi sells 4m units
animal crossing sells 5m units
zelda sells 4m units
yoshi sells 3m units
mario golf sells 2m units

at $34.99 a game, that gets them to $1.1b in revenue. say they take 50% of every game sold, that's $550m

on the wii u side:

mario wii u sells 4m
mario kart sells 5m
zelda wwhd sells 2m
pikmin sells 1m

at $60 a game, that's about about $720m in revenue. if they take a similar amount. $360m for the year from those console games. they're still $90m short of the goal, but that can be made up with other stuff.

the problem is, this is an extremely optimistic view. fuck, there aren't even 3m wii us sold to customers, and to do it, they're going to need to spend some money marketing. i really don't see how they do it.

 

[LeleSocho]

Good, that's the first step of Iwata getting out of the way.
Now Nintendo have to do another bad fiscal year so he will finally resign/be fired

 

[Meelow]

Everything devolved in to being based around gimmicks rather than improving the core experience. When Nintendo ignore gimmicks (Mario Galaxy) they still make fantastic games, when they feel the need to tack things on to justify the gimmick at the time (Skyward Sword) it's directly negatively impacting the quality of games I want to enjoy.

Not to mention it's under his watch Nintendo have completely failed to remain relevant in the online area. Don't get me started on their digital distribution policies.

This is the last reply I'm going to say to you, because I know this will go nowhere, but Mario Galaxy had a gimmick, the waggle and the gravity effect, and it was still an amazing game.

Skyward Sword gameplay is very opinionated, the gameplay is like a love/hate relationship, I loved the gameplay because it was different and I would love if they brought it back to Zelda Wii U, but that's what I want, doesn't it will happen because I want it to.

Also "gimmicks" isn't always a bad thing, Kinect and PS Eye are gimmicks, doesn't make them bad.

 

[FStop7]

I'm not sure what removing Satoru Iwata as CEO accomplishes for the company. There probably isn't anyone internally qualified for the position of being this global ambassador and leader. There is an entire contingency in the Board of Directors making executive and creative decisions for the entire company. Truth be told, they are all 60-75 years old. Not a young globalized group by any means.

Sometimes I think Nintendo's talented development teams persevere despite all the stringent and ancient constructs placed on them by older managers (miyamoto). Sure Miyamoto and Tezuka were great game designers in the 70s and 80s, but times change and people less far removed from current technology, hands-on gaming, and digital trends should have much more autonomy.

It depends on the confidence of the board and shareholders. I'm only speculating but I can't imagine their patience hasn't worn thin. Iwata isn't the cause of all of Nintendo's problems, but he's the CEO and it's just my wild ass guess that he's going to being asked to fall on his sword, figuratively speaking.

FWIW I don't dislike Iwata at all. And I don't have a personal investment in Nintendo outside of wanting there to be more/better games being put out for their systems.

 

[serplux]

Because he's just fucked 2 launches up in the span of less than 2 years and shows no long term vision for the company. It took Nintendo until 2012 to figure out the digital industry was huge and still cant manage an account system. I love Nintendo's games, but they suck as a company right now.

That's fine if you don't like what he's done as a CEO. Saying "fuck you" to the guy who programmed Earthbound in its entirety when it looked like it was going to be canned, the guy who compressed Pokemon Gold/Silver so that the Kanto region could be added, and the guy who started development on Super Smash Bros. in his free time is entirely disrespectful.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Change the team. The Link to the Past was a perfect difficulty and had amazing dungeons. Nintendo is on a jag where difficulty is not their focus so they can focus on a larger casual audience. This isn't a controversial opinion.

Like what you like, but arguing that many like something, or sidestepping by trying to alter the focus by saying my argument is "all over the place" when I never claimed it was a singular issue reflects back on you.

But Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are harder than LttP, which is a simplistic baby game with shit dungeons just like Wind Waker.

 

[Tookay]

Why does anyone even care about iwata? Talk about tears of impotent rage. If you are reveling in Nintendo's suckitude, shouldn't you want Iwata to stay so Nintendo continues to suck? Iwata has presided over like the first losses in Nintendo's history. I say promote him!

I think the idea is that people aren't getting off on Nintendo's suckitude, they're dismayed by how it's been managed. And they think the solution to its suckitude is to sack Iwata and other top management.

 

[metalslimer]

That's fine if you don't like what he's done as a CEO. Saying "fuck you" to the guy who programmed Earthbound in its entirety when it looked like it was going to be canned, the guy who compressed Pokemon Gold/Silver so that the Kanto region could be added, and the guy who started development on Super Smash Bros. in his free time is entirely disrespectful.

Give me a break. These are videogames, not cancer research. I don't owe the ceo of a multibillion dolla company any more respect than some random guy off the street.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

This is the last reply I'm going to say to you, because I know this will go know where, but Mario Galaxy had a gimmick, the waggle and the gravity effect, and it was still an amazing game.

Skyward Sword gameplay is very opinionated, the gameplay is like a love/hate relationship, I loved the gameplay because it was different and I would love if they brought it back to Zelda Wii U, but that's what I want, doesn't it will happen because I want it to.

Also "gimmicks" isn't always a bad thing, Kinect and PS Eye are gimmicks, doesn't make them bad.

Yep. It really just comes down to whether the person likes said gimmick. I despise the Wiimote but LOVE the gamepad which is also a gimmick in essence. It's one reason I will support Nintendo much more with it than I did with the Wii.

 

[krypt0nian]

But Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are harder than LttP, which is a simplistic baby game with shit dungeons just like Wind Waker.

Sure thing.

 

[Kimawolf]

It depends on the confidence of the board and shareholders. I'm only speculating but I can't imagine their patience hasn't worn thin. Iwata isn't the cause of all of Nintendo's problems, but he's the CEO and it's just my wild ass guess that he's going to being asked to fall on his sword, figuratively speaking.

FWIW I don't dislike Iwata at all. And I don't have a personal investment in Nintendo outside of wanting there to be more/better games being put out for their systems.

The board needs to go, all senior management needs to go, young, fresh new people need to be brought in and NOA/NOE need to be given their balls back and told to go wild and fucking do something.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Bolded is sort of Japan in general. Young workers striving to do anything within the constrains of elder management.

Well on the executive front absolutely. But on the creative side, it is a different story. The majority of producers are about 40-50 years old. But Nintendo has created a system where 60 year olds hover above those producers. Basically no Kojima or Suda or Ueda is fully possible at Nintendo until they fully pass the reigns over. Sakurai is the one exception because he works as a contracted employee.

 

[Skyzard]

They've been getting hammered in recent years due to the fact they have a lot of cash in USD and the USD's value had gone down significantly compared to the JPY. Now that it's getting back closer to 100 to 1, they're in theory making some money back although it's always just been sitting there.

Thanks as well, do you know if current assets are not taken into account already when declaring net losses (in the same currency?)

And do what exactly? Release games like they used to make? The ones everybody stopped buying?

I agree, didn't really have many other choices with how the Wii could have been in terms of tech etc, but they did with the Wii U.

 

[javac]

Give me a break. These are videogames, not cancer research.

For something so trivial you too seem very emotionally attached to this idea. Fixated even. If Iwata goes he goes and if he stays he stays. What's more to say.

 

[Madao]

You don't think Yamauchi had (has?) a big hand in that? Nintendo is a conservative company. Iwata may have to go because that's how CEOs are handled when they post losses, but he inherited a barge that's not easy to turn around.

but the Wii and DS were doing very good initially and they had turned around their console downward spiral.

that they managed to completely erase all the advantage they had going for them into this gen and are in a state similar to the end of the GC days is a feat on itself. it is on the levels of sony losing their lead with the PS3 but Nintendo didn't have the 3rd parties to fall back on.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

That's fine if you don't like what he's done as a CEO. Saying "fuck you" to the guy who programmed Earthbound in its entirety when it looked like it was going to be canned, the guy who compressed Pokemon Gold/Silver so that the Kanto region could be added, and the guy who started development on Super Smash Bros. in his free time is entirely disrespectful.

you can't make this stuff up.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

I'm going to regret asking, but how did he "ruin" Nintendo?

Fucking up two releases at a row, unable to keep the Wii momentum alive, making Nintendo's market share to reach lower than GameCube numbers, unable to proper adapt Nintendo for HD development which they're now struggling for, excessive focus on casual and party games, mishandled Nintendo's western development division completely and didn't managed to bring western third-party support, very japanese centric direction in a gaming world where the western model is at high, excessive reliance over the Mario franchise... are some of his mismangements.

 

[Petrae]

Ok, why does gaf hate Iwata so much?

I won't speak for everyone, but in my eyes, Nintendo has completely bungled two platform launches under Iwata's leadership. 3DS needed a major price drop to begin its recovery (which was bolstered by Mario titles, to be fair) and sales have been relatively lethargic outside of Japan for the last 9-10 months. Wii U's struggles are worse; next to no first-party games ready despite unveiling the platform nearly two years ago and interest in the platform is minimal at best.

Iwata did well with Wii and DS, but those ships sailed long ago. 3DS and Wii U are Nintendo's future, and only one is showing any signs of potential success. The other is languishing on store shelves, much to the chagrin of retailers who thought Wii U would sell.

When you're the leader and two consecutive platforms launch so poorly, someone needs to be held accountable. If it's not you, then you need to find someone else to fire and make sure that you get both platforms selling as they should worldwide by this time next year. If you can't do that, then step down and let the company find someone who can.

If I was a shareholder, I'd be doing everything I could to make sure that my voice would be heard to get Iwata replaced. The company is no longer performing as it did under him.

 

[Pikma]

Good, that's the first step of Iwata getting out of the way.
Now Nintendo have to do another bad fiscal year so he will finally resign/be fired

"I want Nintendo to do well, that's why I wish they have a really shitty fiscal year, just so they can recover"

Makes sense.

3DS needed a major price drop to begin its recovery (which was bolstered by Mario titles, to be fair) and sales have been relatively lethargic outside of Japan for the last 9-10 months.

It's beating the DS in the same timeframe, how is that lethargic?

 

[metalslimer]

For something so trivial you too seem very emotionally attached to this idea. Fixated even. If Iwata goes he goes and if he stays he stays. What's more to say.

Is this the best you can do for an argument? Videogames are a big part of my life and nintendo is my favorite developer so yes i care if i think they are heading down the wrong path. Do i owe any ceo my respect? For what?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Give me a break. These are videogames, not cancer research. I don't owe the ceo of a multibillion dolla company any more respect than some random guy off the street.

Oh, you rebel you.

 

[wsippel]

Last six months? Perhaps nothing significantly changes BUT Nintendo would most likely have better third party support going forward which would be big.

Wii U hardly gets PS360 ports now, I don't think a more powerful system would have made any difference whatsoever.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

That's fine if you don't like what he's done as a CEO. Saying "fuck you" to the guy who programmed Earthbound in its entirety when it looked like it was going to be canned, the guy who compressed Pokemon Gold/Silver so that the Kanto region could be added, and the guy who started development on Super Smash Bros. in his free time is entirely disrespectful.

While I see your point, in this business it's all about what have you done for me lately. Look at how far Bioware has fallen in the last couple of years. Look at how far Blizzard has fallen after Diablo 3. Iwata isn't a game developer anymore. He isn't a programmer. He is the CEO of Nintendo and therefore the buck falls at his feet. Nintendo doesn't 'respect' the customer with how they handle their digital distribution system. They didn't respect customers with having the 3DS and Wii U be region restricted. Why should people 'respect' Iwata just because of what he once was when he doesn't even respect the customers who buy the products that his company sells?

 

[Schnozberry]

you can't make this stuff up.

You also can't make up people getting into a frothing rage over a Video Game CEO as if he went back in time and raped them in their childhood.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

So when does Iwata get the boot? I want to see some changes.

 

[Technosteve]

Theortical Question,

If Iwata wasn't running Nintendo the Wii U would of been a more powerful console?

Answer,

?????

 

[SolarPowered]

pokemon sells 14m units
mario & luigi sells 4m units
animal crossing sells 5m units
zelda sells 4m units
yoshi sells 3m units
mario golf sells 2m units

at $34.99 a game, that gets them to $1.1b in revenue. say they take 50% of every game sold, that's $550m

on the wii u side:

mario wii u sells 4m
mario kart sells 5m
zelda wwhd sells 2m
pikmin sells 1m

at $60 a game, that's about about $720m in revenue. if they take a similar amount. $360m for the year from those console games. they're still $90m short of the goal, but that can be made up with other stuff.

the problem is, this is an extremely optimistic view. fuck, there aren't even 3m wii us sold to customers, and to do it, they're going to need to spend some money marketing. i really don't see how they do it.

They're gonna have to slash some hardware prices to even make enough of an install base for 5 million MK purchases.

 

[javac]

Is this the best you can do for an argument?

Which argument exactly? I couldn't give two shits if he goes or stays.