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[finalboss2]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

 

[atomic moth]

"TriForce in the background trying to give KBrad some advice"

 

[enzo_gt]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

No. That's weak, promotes players banning whoever they have difficulty with, promotes laziness, takes away elements of adaptation and learning, diminishes the importance of team building (which is, the entire game), etc.

tl;dr: No. Marvel is fine where it is.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

More like just everyone agrees to ban missiles. In an ideal world we'd be able to get under the hood of the game and make our own balance changes like that one version of Smash. I'd love to work on something like that.

 

[sleepykyo]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

Marvel is about freedom though.

 

[finalboss2]

No. That's weak, promotes players banning whoever they have difficulty with, promotes laziness, takes away elements of adaptation and learning, diminishes the importance of team building (which is, the entire game), etc.

tl;dr: No. Marvel is fine where it is.

I dont think it promotes laziness. I think it promotes people actually studying the game again. I think its going to make the pros who hold forward with Wolverine or Vergil instead of learning the game either learn how to play it properly or keep on losing because they need to learn more characters.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I dont think it promotes laziness. I think it promotes people actually studying the game again. I think its going to make the pros who hold forward with Wolverine or Vergil instead of learning the game either learn how to play it properly or keep on losing.

Yea but it seems silly to promote it in that fashion. Besides it makes everyone appreciate unorthodox players even more.

 

[Lambda Pie]

I dont think it promotes laziness. I think it promotes people actually studying the game again. I think its going to make the pros who hold forward with Wolverine or Vergil instead of learning the game either learn how to play it properly or keep on losing because they need to learn more characters.

it's their choice to hold forward with Wolverine and Vergil. nothing keeping them from learning other characters, they simply don't want too.

bannings in fighting games are only for extremely broken shit. none of that in Marvel.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

That doesnt work in a game that involves preconstructed teams.


One idea that I think might work is something hazmats tried out. Low tier umvc3. They did this for marvel 2 as well. Of course cutting from the top just means that theres just another hierarchy of characters, but it enforces a completely different meta.

 

[enzo_gt]

I dont think it promotes laziness. I think it promotes people actually studying the game again. I think its going to make the pros who hold forward with Wolverine or Vergil instead of learning the game either learn how to play it properly or keep on losing because they need to learn more characters.

What's wrong with studying the game right now to fix current threats? Why must you completely remove the element of adaptation and force the other player to play a B-team before the set has even started?

Banning a character fucks up the synergy of the other team and forces them to use a substitute or a B-team. I don't see how you'd rather see people play their B-teams against each other all the time and completely subjugate the idea of learning in the metagame because you hand each player a handicap. I can't see a single positive in this approach as it fucks with what the game is and the development of the metagame right at the teambuilding core. It will never happen and for good reason.

 

[Zissou]

What's wrong with studying the game right now to fix current threats? Why must you completely remove the element of adaptation and force the other player to play a B-team before the set has even started?

Banning a character fucks up the synergy of the other team and forces them to use a substitute or a B-team. I don't see how you'd rather see people play their B-teams against each other all the time and completely subjugate the idea of learning in the metagame because you hand each player a handicap. I can't see a single positive in this approach as it fucks with what the game is and the development of the metagame right at the teambuilding core. It will never happen and for good reason.

I agree with this. It may be beneficial to ban something like missiles assist specifically though (but not Doom as a whole) just to encourage diversity. It'll never happen though.

 

[Dahbomb]

Do you all think we could solve the problems of Ultimate MVC3 if we start a banning phase before a match similar to Dota/LOL? Like.....before a match, you're allowed to ban your opponent from picking 1 character. This character is still available to you, unless the other person bans the same one.

I imagine banning missiles, wolverine, vergil, etc. but only in certain circumstances could really help out.

If you want to go the banning pick route then you have to go all the way with it. 3 bans per side (6 characters banned), alternating, neither player can play those 6 characters.

While that will help with character variety it will still not fix the issues with the game or the balance. People will ban Doom for Beam assist and TAC infinites... the other player will just pick Iron Man to do the same. You ban Vergil but then you may have to deal with Phoenix, Strider without a counter pick up your sleeve. You ban Wolverine, Vergil and Morrigan... Hawkeye becomes top tier and demolishes everyone else. You ban Zero, Magneto you start to see more Wesker, Spencer.

All banning pick does is shift the tiers to the next 6 or so characters. Ok so Vergil, Zero, Wolverine, Doom, Magneto, Morrigan get banned almost all the time then that means a metric ton increase in Spencers, Weskers,, Novas, Striders, Phoenix, Dante etc. And you would have the additional problem of stagnating top level of play because there would hardly be specialists. You won't have a ChrisG Morrigan and you won't have an idea of what a character is capable of at max capability. You won't have a FChamp Dormammu, a RayRay Magneto, a Yipes Vergil/Dante, a Justin Wolverine etc.

Banning picks work in DOTA/LoL because there are not only more heroes and more characters to pick but the skill cap per hero is far lower than in a fighting game. Its not hard for a pro player to play a new hero in Dota 2 but it takes months almost a year to get your Morrigan to ChrisG's level. A lot of Dota heroes you can play well with just fundamentals... you can't do that with a Viper you have to dedicate training time to it. And with a banning pick format no one would ever reach top caliber with a single character because it would be foolhardy to waste so much effort on a single character only for it to be banned.

 

[enzo_gt]

I agree with this. It may be beneficial to ban something like missiles assist specifically though (but not Doom as a whole) just to encourage diversity. It'll never happen though.

I'd be completely okay with this, but it does conflict with my belief that players should have maximum choice and HM is part of that. It would definitely make the rest of the game more interesting to play and watch though, and even though there are other really good assists, I don't think any will rise as high above as HM does.

HM is just too good of an assist. It has way too many good properties without any of the negatives or drawbacks.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I found it, it was a round robin tournament that Angelic had:

what do you think are the best teams that can be constructed from this?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Banning only works in non-fighting games like LoL and smash bros.

 

[Dahbomb]

Hidden Missiles should be banned BUT this just opens the possibility for other stuff to be banned. Do you ban TAC infinites? Do you ban glitches like Kubo escape, Round Trip?

I would rather the game die out fast than putting in bans just for the sake of diversity. Its just a bad slippery slope.

 

[Dahbomb]

I found it, it was a round robin tournament that Angelic had:

what do you think are the best teams that can be constructed from this?

Firebrand plus Skrull is automatically the best duo on that roster. Cap plus Iron Man would be legit along with X23 BOGO teams. Big bodies like Haggar, Haggar with something like Unibeam or Dagger Toss or Chris' Machine Gun fire. Of course team Abegen even though its not really a great team IMO. Team DJHoushen with Felicia/Skrull/Task or Arthur.

What is this round robin thing?

 

[fader]

I found it, it was a round robin tournament that Angelic had:

what do you think are the best teams that can be constructed from this?

That sounds like a freaking fun tournament...because it challenges creativety rather than high tiering.

 

[alstein]

No. That's weak, promotes players banning whoever they have difficulty with, promotes laziness, takes away elements of adaptation and learning, diminishes the importance of team building (which is, the entire game), etc.

tl;dr: No. Marvel is fine where it is.

If something is truly breaking the game, it can be banned. I don't think Missiles are outright broken in Marvel - at least not to the level of ST Akuma.

I'm not opposed to bans, but wait until after Evo. Bans have to be considered very carefully.

MVC2 did have "low-tier" tournies though, so there is precedent at least on some level.

Here's the big question: if something is truly killing a game, do you ban it or do you let the game die? (the other question is whether missiles is "killing" Marvel- aka folks just not playing the game anymore- that's the definition of killing.) If you see folks quitting fighters over it, or going back to AE, then you have to think about it. Until that happens, I wouldn't think about a ban.

Banning only works in non-fighting games like LoL and smash bros.

Super Turbo isn't a fighting game? SamSho 2 isn't? (Ukyo was banned in SamSho2 some places). SC4 wasn't a fighting game?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

let's also ban throws because they are cheap

 

[Zissou]

That sounds like a freaking fun tournament...because it challenges creativety rather than high tiering.

It would just end up being tier whoring the available characters. No difference, really.

 

[Dahbomb]

That sounds like a freaking fun tournament...because it challenges creativety rather than high tiering.

Its not that fun when people get unblockabled to death by Firebrand... Also if you ban the top tiers people will just gravitate towards the next best. You think people will pick Phoenix Wright and Ghost Rider even with that roster?

Another thing is that some interesting but not super top tier characters like Strange and MODOK are banned. A character like Strange makes a ton of mid tier characters really potent.

 

[Zissou]

Haha, every single character who has an air-invincible hyper is banned. Firebrand finally the best.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

What is this round robin thing?

It was just some small get together that he did for funsies. Though obviously the ban list can be debated more but the idea is still there.

It would just end up being tier whoring the available characters. No difference, really.

It's not meant to eliminate tier whoring.

 

[number47]

>__>...Modak banned. Now Ive seen everything.

 

[Dahbomb]

>__>...Modak banned. Now Ive seen everything.

MODOK would easily zone out that entire non-banned cast except for maybe characters like Firebrand, Felicia, Spider Man and Skrull who IMO should've been banned as well. I mean they banned Sentinel as well.

 

[Deps]

Can we just ban Marvel 3 and replace it with Arcana Heart 3

 

[enzo_gt]

Should there be a separate thread for Toryuken 2? There's a lot of great players there.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I know blazblue sucks, but one of the characters fights with a sticky hand? Come on.

 

[Dahbomb]

Should there be a separate thread for Toryuken 2? There's a lot of great players there.

Then make one.

 

[Varjet]

Haha, every single character who has an air-invincible hyper is banned. Firebrand finally the best.

Joe isn't banned.

 

[Smooth Operator]

>__>...Modak banned. Now Ive seen everything.

Don't sleep on M.O.D.O.K, his execution barrier is pretty high, but he'll be top tier in UMVC3 no infinites edition.

 

[Dahbomb]

Don't sleep on M.O.D.O.K, his execution barrier is pretty high, but he'll be top tier in UMVC3 no infinites edition.

Not really, too many issues with him to be top tier (in old roster, round robin roster he would be top tier free). He isn't that execution heavy just very unorthodox.

 

[Edgeward]

Can we just ban Marvel 3 and replace it with Arcana Heart 3

I like the cut of your jib, good sir

 

["God's Beard!"]

I found it, it was a round robin tournament that Angelic had:

what do you think are the best teams that can be constructed from this?

Viewtiful Joe/Storm/Rocket Raccoon

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Then make one.

WHY DON'T YOU MAKE ONE MR. UPPITY

 

[TheThunder]

Can we just ban Marvel 3 and replace it with Arcana Heart 3

http://youtu.be/t2qPEy3NHbc?t=2m1s

 

[SloaneRisette]

I found it, it was a round robin tournament that Angelic had:

what do you think are the best teams that can be constructed from this?

Cap/Taskmaster/Rocket Raccoon

Let's fucking go

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Now that's what i'm talking about. Come at you from otakuxgamer.com

 

[djplaeskool]

Can we just ban Marvel 3 and replace it with Arcana Heart 3

 

[A Pretty Panda]

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=arcana+heart (possibly NSFW)

 

[fader]

Its not that fun when people get unblockabled to death by Firebrand... Also if you ban the top tiers people will just gravitate towards the next best. You think people will pick Phoenix Wright and Ghost Rider even with that roster?

Another thing is that some interesting but not super top tier characters like Strange and MODOK are banned. A character like Strange makes a ton of mid tier characters really potent.

meh. good point. im an idiot.

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=arcana+heart (possibly NSFW)

thnx, cause im at work. >.>

 

[sycam0re]

I haven't touched Marvel since release and I've been playing mostly MK9 and Injustice. Is it possible to play it again without getting completely slaughtered?

 

[Gr1mLock]

I haven't touched Marvel since release and I've been playing mostly MK9 and Injustice. Is it possible to play it again without getting completely slaughtered?

Pick top tier (=

 

[JeTmAn81]

Pick top tier (=

And get slaughtered anyway because even top tier in that game isn't a win button. You have to know what you're doing. Apropos of nothing, I played an Arthur team the other day that slaughtered me. No idea how to get through that many projectiles.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Fake Dahbomb blowing us up again, lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

WHY DON'T YOU MAKE ONE MR. UPPITY

I made one last week son.

 

[The Last Emperor]

i'm laughing so hard at this fake dahbomb

 

[SloaneRisette]

i'm laughing so hard at this fake dahbomb

"Lol I'm actually a well known member in the community and the NeoGaf FGC, all of you are nobodies. Respect me, I can teach you a few things."

Didn't capitalize GAF fully, clearly an impostor. #Kappa

This stream chat has gone insane

I miss aristochat

 

[enzo_gt]

Toryuken 2 Thread is up!