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[mysteriousmage09]

Less performance than an old Desktop CPU.

That's why devs are putting tons of tasks the CPU usually does onto the GPU.

 

[KKRT00]

That's why devs are putting tons of tasks the CPU usually does onto the GPU.

Yeah, but it takes rendering resources.

 

[Truant]

BUT MY OLD COMPUTER FROM A THOUSAND YEARS AGO WAS AT 2GHZ AND THAT WAS A PENTIUM 4 WHAT GIVES

 

[Kerub]

BUT MY OLD COMPUTER FROM A THOUSAND YEARS AGO WAS AT 2GHZ AND THAT WAS A PENTIUM 4 WHAT GIVES

Yeah wtf, 1,6 ghz!? So the new consoles have half the power of the old consoles!?!? #yolo

 

[Durante]

So an average quad core desktop i5 from last year would outperform an 8-core Jaguar at 1.6 GHz by a factor of 3 or so. As expected.

I guess the best thing you can say about these CPUs is that they are "good enough".

 

[Captainsweatpants]

Yeah wtf, 1,6 ghz!? So the new consoles have half the power of the old consoles!?!? #yolo

 

[Valkyria]

Just a question, juguar x 4 means four cores or are the total 8 because each jaguar has 2 cores?

 

[TheD]

Ouch, that is what I call getting outclassed.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

So an average quad core desktop i5 from last year would outperform an 8-core Jaguar at 1.6 GHz by a factor of 3 or so. As expected.

I guess the best thing you can say about these CPUs is that they are "good enough".

As always when looking at post-Bulldozer AMD designs, it's important to realize that AMD's "8 cores" consists of 8 INT and 4 FP units. Intel's 4-core designs have 4 INT and 4 FP units. Guess what games like to hammer on? That's right, the FP units. So really what you're saying is,

So an average 4 FP design i5 from last year would outperform 4 FP Jaguar at 1.6 GHz by a factor of 3 or so. As expected.

and that would be about right since Intel crushes AMD in FP grunt and has since the Core 2 days. Plus the i5 is clocked quite a bit higher than 1.6 ghz.

Just a question, juguar x 4 means four cores or are the total 8 because each jaguar has 2 cores?

A "module" post-Bulldozer consists of 2 INT units and 1 FP unit paired with shared cache. So a Jaguar, like all of AMD's "8-core" designs, contains 4 "modules" which adds up to 8 INT units and 4 FP units.

 

[TheD]

As always when looking at post-Bulldozer AMD designs, it's important to realize that AMD's "8 cores" consists of 8 INT and 4 FP units. Intel's 4-core designs have 4 INT and 4 FP units. Guess what games like to hammer on? That's right, the FP units. So really what you're saying is,



and that would be about right since Intel crushes AMD in FP grunt and has since the Core 2 days.

Jag is not bulldozer based, it should have FP hardware per a core.

 

[McHuj]

As always when looking at post-Bulldozer AMD designs, it's important to realize that AMD's "8 cores" consists of 8 INT and 4 FP units. Intel's 4-core designs have 4 INT and 4 FP units. Guess what games like to hammer on? That's right, the FP units. So really what you're saying is,



and that would be about right since Intel crushes AMD in FP grunt and has since the Core 2 days.

Jaguar doesn't have a shared FP unit like bulldozer. Each core has its own INT and FP unit.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

So an average quad core desktop i5 from last year would outperform an 8-core Jaguar at 1.6 GHz by a factor of 3 or so. As expected.

I guess the best thing you can say about these CPUs is that they are "good enough".

For what?

PC is looking better and better to me.

 

[McHuj]

The problem is power scaling with semiconductor nodes and a TPD budget of 25-30 watts for the GPU. This is probably only one of a very few CPUs that fits into that power budget.


Would you guys be willing to give up GPU power for a beefier CPU? Or pay 599 for a console again?

 

[TheD]

I would like to point out the Intel CPU in that chart (that beats the crap out of Jag and includes a GPU) only has a max TDP of 17W!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Jag is not bulldozer based, it should have FP hardware per a core.

Jaguar doesn't have a shared FP unit like bulldozer. Each core has its own INT and FP unit.

Oh. Well okay then, seems I'm behind the times on AMD. Well, 4 INT and 4 FP then. It's nice to see AMD actually go back and fix their biggest error from Bulldozer, which was wasting transistors on INT performance. I think I might start to like Jaguar.

 

[Blearth]

I'm glad the CPUs are so weak.

I won't have to replace my i2500k for a looooooooooong time.

 

[Andrea23]

For what?

PC is looking better and better to me.

This

 

[IcyEyes]

No offense, but some of you guys, really don't have any clue about those stuff.

 

[Y2Kev]

I deem these CPUs "latte"!

No offense, but some of you guys, really don't have any clue about those stuff.

Don't do this. Thanks.

 

[TheD]

No offense, but some of you guys, really don't have any clue about those stuff.

Keep on telling yourself that.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

It's silly to look only to the CPU and call it the day. You should factor the whole picture. Like what kind of tasks is it supposed to perform. Which tasks has been moved to dedicated hardware. For example audio, which is a total performance hog, has it's own dedicated hardware in the machines. Computing assistance from the GPU has been getting bigger in the last couple of years (also on PC), so these machines have been designed with that in mind. The lowpower usage of the CPU frees up improvements in other area's like RAM and GPU.

 

[KillerMan91]

So my Phenom X6 1055T still have several years of life in it. Good.

 

[Eusis]

I'm glad the CPUs are so weak.

I won't have to replace my i2500k for a looooooooooong time.

How does the GPU compare to video cards anyways within the last few years?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Less performance than an old Desktop CPU.

Neither MS nor Sony are going for raw power, but keeping the TDP low and making sure nothing in the console gets set on fire. Neither of them want a RROD fiasco that's going to cost them billions in replacements and hasty redesigns.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

[mrklaw]

So an average quad core desktop i5 from last year would outperform an 8-core Jaguar at 1.6 GHz by a factor of 3 or so. As expected.

I guess the best thing you can say about these CPUs is that they are "good enough".

that actually sounds pretty good to me. I thought they'd be atom class (only multicore). Certainly I'd expect most of the PS3 devs that are familiar with putting threads on SPEs will use compute quite early in the generation, PC engine developers with very CPU-centric engines might struggle a little though.

 

[TheD]

It's silly to look only to the CPU and call it the day. You should factor the whole picture. Like what kind of tasks is it supposed to perform. Which tasks has been moved to dedicated hardware. For example audio, which is a total performance hog, has it's own dedicated hardware in the machines. Computing assistance from the GPU has been getting bigger in the last couple of years (also on PC), so these machines have been designed with that in mind. The lowpower usage of the CPU frees up improvements in other area's like RAM and GPU.

Audio in most games is anything but a big drain on system resources, the GPU is only good for massive parallel tasks, it is not a be all and end all fix for poor CPUs performance.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

No offense, but some of you guys, really don't have any clue about those stuff.

That may me the case, but some helpful insight (rather than insult) might prove fruitful.

 

[spwolf]

cool... so its half of PS4/XO CPU, without GDDR5, bus optimizations and same clock speed.

 

[TheD]

cool... so its half of PS4/XO CPU, without GDDR5, bus optimizations and same clock speed.

GDDR5 is not going to help a CPU, they already get tons of bandwidth.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Audio in most games is anything but a big drain on system resources, the GPU is only good for massive parallel tasks, it is not a be all and end all fix for poor CPUs performance.

Audio on 360 could have a whole CPU core dedicated to it. How is that not a drain? 33% is pretty huge imo. The GPU computing might not fix everything, but it is performing tasks that the CPU would have to do. Again freeing up the CPU to do other things.

 

[SparkTR]

How does the GPU compare to video cards anyways within the last few years?

Well the PS4 GPU is 1.84 TFLOPs, the new GTX780 is 3.98 TFLOPS. Raw power-wise, this is the furthest gap between new consoles and PC hardware ever I think.

 

[TheD]

Audio on 360 could have a whole CPU core dedicated to it. How is that not a drain? 33% is pretty huge imo. The GPU computing might not fix everything, but it is performing tasks that the CPU would have to do. Again freeing up the CPU to do other things.

That was only one game and an exception to the rule.

 

[nekomix]

My i5 3450 says allelujah ! /troll

However, if it's enough for them, it's enough. I just want to see how they use it in games, if it's a gamechanger or not like they always say.

 

[aeolist]

Audio on 360 could have a whole CPU core dedicated to it. How is that not a drain? 33% is pretty huge imo. The GPU computing might not fix everything, but it is performing tasks that the CPU would have to do. Again freeing up the CPU to do other things.

the 360 cpu was shit though

 

[Brashnir]

The difference will probably be quite a bit larger than this gen unless Microsoft has some bullshit stranglehold on devs that prevent them from taking advantage of the PS4's extra power. Such a gap is pretty big.

It will be more noticable than PS3/360, but less noticable than every other previous generation of gaming.

 

[spwolf]

GDDR5 is not going to help a CPU, they already get tons of bandwidth.

it is going to help overall system performance for sure, thats why we always try to add faster ram to our PC's.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

That was only one game and an exception to the rule.

You seem to know more of the subject then me. How much resources of the CPU do you think is dedicated to audio on average?

the 360 cpu was shit though

So are these CPU's, so we are lucky they don't have to perform those tasks right! Audio is pretty crappy on 360 when you compare it to PS3, atleast we are spared that devs have to make cuts there.

 

[TheD]

You seem to know more of the subject then me. How much resources of the CPU do you think is dedicated to audio on average?




So are these CPU's, so we are lucky they don't have to perform those tasks right! Audio is pretty crappy on 360 when you compare it to PS4, atleast we are spared that devs have to make cuts there.

Killzone3's CPU audio usage
http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/1/2/9/7/6/2/3/KZ_Jobs.bmp.jpg
(likely the yellow bar on SPU5)/

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Killzone3's CPU audio usage
http://images.eurogamer.net/articles//a/1/2/9/7/6/2/3/KZ_Jobs.bmp.jpg
(likely the yellow bar on SPU5)/

But that is CELL, it is a beast decoding this stuff. I reckon it will be different on x86 architecture based chips.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But that is CELL, it is a beast decoding this stuff. I reckon it will be different on x86 architecture based chips.

A gaming PC dedicates basically nil CPU to sound processing.

 

[velociraptor]

Well the PS4 GPU is 1.84 TFLOPs, the new GTX780 is 3.98 TFLOPS. Raw power-wise, this is the furthest gap between new consoles and PC hardware ever I think.

And also the most expensive.

 

[Ty4on]

Wonder how many Jaguar cores a single core in my 3570k beats
At stock a single 3.9Ghz Ivy Bridge core will get 1.66 in Cinebench...

So are these CPU's, so we are lucky they don't have to perform those tasks right! Audio is pretty crappy on 360 when you compare it to PS3, atleast we are spared that devs have to make cuts there.

That was due to storage. AFAIK the PS3 had an even worse CPU because the actual CPU part of the Cell (PPE) was a single core similar to one of the three cores in Xenon. The SPEs were often used to make up for the crappy (Nvidia ) GPU.

 

[strata8]

So 2GHz rumor looks unlikely at this point.

Ridiculous. Even with that increase 8 cores @ 2 Ghz would only be ~30W. That's peanuts compared to any desktop CPU or the last generation.

 

[Paracelsus]

Ridiculous. Even with that increase 8 cores @ 2 Ghz would only be ~30W. That's peanuts compared to any desktop CPU or the last generation.

A 30W increase for homeconsoles is devastating.

 

[Shayan]

Less performance than an old Desktop CPU.

A4 5000 is a 4 core APU. The one in PS4/XONE is 8 core and custom designed to get more peerformance . Misleading article since with time, developers would have better tools to run APUs .

 

[Totobeni]

AMD delivering weak performance to gamers everywhere now.

 

[strata8]

A 30W increase for homeconsoles is devastating.

Not a 30W increase. 30W for the entire CPU. At 1.6 Ghz you'd end up with ~20W, so a 10W increase.

 

[KKRT00]

Ridiculous. Even with that increase 8 cores @ 2 Ghz would only be ~30W. That's peanuts compared to any desktop CPU or the last generation.

Its only 15W less than i5 4 core ivy bridge clocked at 2.3ghz. At 35W You can have 2 cores 2 threads ivy bridge clocked at 2.9ghz.
Haswell will have 35W model that has 4 cores, 8 threads and is clocked at 2ghz.

---

A4 5000 is a 4 core APU. The one in PS4/XONE is 8 core and custom designed to get more peerformance . Misleading article since with time, developers would have better tools to run APUs .

Jaguars in consoles will have the same architecture as those in review code.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Hmmm ok it seems I had the wrong impression of how audio is handled on these machines. Thanks for the insight dudes!

 

[Zukuu]

What changed? Wasn't 1.6 @8 cores pretty much known for an eternity and out of the blue it is wii-u level of bad?
Doesn't sound too bad to me if you look at what its supposed to do. At least for Sony.