Fighting Games Weekly | May 27 - June 2nd | Check Your E-Privilege

toddhunter said:
That is probably the key there. As the saying goes, the best players do not necessarily make the best coaches. I'd be happy to pay for dedicated time and quality help.
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A hundred times this. I've spoken with a number of high level players, and when you're trying to learn, having someone who can actually articulate fundamental skills in a spoken or written manner is incredibly helpful (and sadly, rare).

Since Juicebox is here now, I should also mention that I've taken lessons with him, and don't regret it one bit. I've learned a lot and am making progress more quickly than I probably would have without them.

aggro crag said:
I'm starting to get a little tired of the discussion from top players complaining about not getting paid enough. As if it's the TO's fault these guys aren't making a proper living. Which leads me to believe they have very little understanding of how people in sports get paid.

I really believe TO's should always work to provide a big prize pool whenever possible. But the tournaments and streamers main responsibility should be to provide the best possible tournament experience and provide as much exposure for the players.

Teams really need to do a better job at providing actual wages for their players and figure out ways to capitalize on their player's exposure. Players who don't have teams, need to start seeking out sponsorship or endorsements.

I know this is a bit of a stretch, but when I think about players complaining about their cash flow. I think about the Olympics. Not all of those athletes belong to teams or are expecting huge payouts. Instead rely on sponsorships and endorsements to fund their full time training.
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Hah, whenever people try to monetize the players, the community gets upset. The 'community', I mean. Not the actual people who compete, but the stream monsters and "FGC". See: Cross Counter selling that Chris G and F Champ FT10, MLG, etc.
 
Karsticles said:
If I want to listen to poorly constructed arguments about feminism, I could just walk a few blocks to a college campus.
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I think you may be too harsh on the usual feminist, even if they happen to be the naive college student kind.

What the tropes episode is actually about is violence in videogames and she chooses to frame it so as to only talk about women characters (to the point where I thought you could switch "women" with "human" and it would only make more sense). The damsel trope is sort of pushed aside for blood thirsty vengeance plots (where women happen to die) and the whole "have to kill/mercy kill/tricked into killing an ally" (which happens to be a women). She goes as far to say (in a "I'm not saying there is, but..." fashion) there may be a link between violence in games and violence in real life, but again, only bringing up crimes against women. If you want a summary, that's pretty much it. If you like violence in videogames you will find it pretty weird (especially when she starts to namedrop "indie" games as non-violent, as if you'd have to actually look as far as "counter-culture" "indie" games). That's the actual bigger issue I think (most gender issues would be solved just by having a better ratio of female protag/perspective games) and it is going to be a pain in the ass in the future.

And yes, she literally goes out of her way to spoil dozens and dozens of games. Sometimes it is just tangibly related clips to what she is saying that just happens to reveal plot twists. So many spoilers that she couldn't fit all of them in her spoiler list.

But anyway, I hate not talking about fighting games in this thread . . . I'll make sure not to do it again.



So fanatiq. Kind of a dick. Wish he wasn't.

When did total biscut insult spooky? That just isn't right.
 
Venfayth said:
A hundred times this. I've spoken with a number of high level players, and when you're trying to learn, having someone who can actually articulate fundamental skills in a spoken or written manner is incredibly helpful (and sadly, rare).
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I find that most high level players are absolute dogshit at teaching. They're so far removed from and above the process that they can no longer relate to the struggles of the player who isn't there yet, or they're just so naturally gifted that they intuitively know stuff without really understanding why. Of course, there are notable exceptions.
 
Venfayth said:
Hah, whenever people try to monetize the players, the community gets upset. The 'community', I mean. Not the actual people who compete, but the stream monsters and "FGC". See: Cross Counter selling that Chris G and F Champ FT10, MLG, etc.
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So I'm not really sure how the Cross Counter stuff works. I've bought their good vs. evil exhibition a while ago, but it would make sense for the players to get a cut of that cash.

Anyways, I guess the point of my rant is that I'm getting a little tired of good organizers getting blamed, and getting accused of cashing in from these tourneys. As if the buildings they rent out, internet they use, isn't costing them money.

I mean, I imagine athletes in certain sports count on tournament winnings as their main way to provide a living, but I really do believe that teams and players have agency, when it comes to getting money.

And if players have problems with a way a tournament is being run, I think a TO would be open to listen to them. But most of the time, it feels like a Pro vs. TO thing going. And no discussion happens.
 
Maybe they won't even call you in. There's a possibility that you'll just be on stand-by at home.

Also, jury duty is the best place to just creep.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
Does AGE care that their team is full idiots?
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Let's not paint the entire team with such a wide brush. Sabre and Vangief are very intelligent and professional players. Chrisg honestly is one of the nicest guys to talk to in person.

Don't let the vocal idiots taint the quiet good people on that team.
 
I think the solution to players wanting better pay etc lies in diversification of tournaments, especially into the online sphere. That is for the future though.


Imagine if you had a league of top SF4 players from all across the US competing over several months for ranking. Have a well produced live show by a streamer. Do it three or five days a week. Have player interviews, special showcases of strategies, coverage of archive footage by top players. Get sponsors involved via a really high quality production.


That is the good bit of esports. Ignore the shirts and perspex chambers. Put on regular top level competitive games over both weekdays and weekends.


At the moment the FGC's diet is majors and locals. A good portion of both is the massive number of midcard attendees. But the guys who are going to make the money need to be in high level matches all the time to push their brand - and hence be more valuable to sponsor - and to put on more entertaining shows that get more people into fighting games.
 
Ok, which of Fanatiq/Flash's claims do you want me to debunk first? Or just forget the whole thing?

Number 1: Neither Fanatiq nor Knives were seeded, nor should they have been. They both used emergency registration and as the rules state were seeded neither by skill nor geography. I put them in pools that I felt were very fair to both of them. I could've been a dick and put one or both of them in, say, Ranmasama's pool but I didn't.

Number 2: Flash can't tell when people are joking.

Number 3: We are more efficient than ECT because we have more attendees yet still run on time. We are as efficient as CEO because Jebailey does whatever Keits tells him to.

Number 4: Flash was pissed that he had to play Chris G in SFxT Top 16 winners. I told him that I only seed by region and skill, not by team allegiance. I also said I separated them in other games, a courtesy I didn't have to do. I didn't know that Flash has spent the last week with Chris G because I don't follow their day to day activities.

Number 5: Number of "top players" doesn't determine a major. Number of total players does.
 
Huw_Dawson said:
I think the solution to players wanting better pay etc lies in diversification of tournaments, especially into the online sphere. That is for the future though.


Imagine if you had a league of top SF4 players from all across the US competing over several months for ranking. Have a well produced live show by a streamer. Do it three or five days a week. Have player interviews, special showcases of strategies, coverage of archive footage by top players. Get sponsors involved via a really high quality production.
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And therein lies the biggest problem. We have companies sponsor tournaments, and we have people like Koogy from Brokentier, but nothing in the way of esports sponsors, and who knows if that'll change anytime soon.
 
Riposte said:
I think you may be too harsh on the usual feminist, even if they happen to be the naive college student kind.

What the tropes episode is actually about is violence in videogames and she chooses to frame it so as to only talk about women characters (to the point where I thought you could switch "women" with "human" and it would only make more sense). The damsel trope is sort of pushed aside for blood thirsty vengeance plots (where women happen to die) and the whole "have to kill/mercy kill/tricked into killing an ally" (which happens to be a women). She goes as far to say (in a "I'm not saying there is, but..." fashion) there may be a link between violence in games and violence in real life, but again, only bringing up crimes against women. If you want a summary, that's pretty much it. If you like violence in videogames you will find it pretty weird (especially when she starts to namedrop "indie" games as non-violent, as if you'd have to actually look as far as "counter-culture" "indie" games). That's the actual bigger issue I think (most gender issues would be solved just by having a better ratio of female protag/perspective games) and it is going to be a pain in the ass in the future.

And yes, she literally goes out of her way to spoil dozens and dozens of games. Sometimes it is just tangibly related clips to what she is saying that just happens to reveal plot twists. So many spoilers that she couldn't fit all of them in her spoiler list.

But anyway, I hate not talking about fighting games in this thread . . . I'll make sure not to do it again.



So fanatiq. Kind of a dick. Wish he wasn't.

When did total biscut insult spooky? That just isn't right.
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It's nothing against the usual feminist, it's just how it goes with the usual supporter of any movement. Most people cling to ideologies as a replacement for real thinking.

Parallax Scroll said:
Last time I brought my DS and leveled up my final fantasy guys a bunch.
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I've always wanted to get called in for jury duty...
 
Smedwicks said:
And therein lies the biggest problem. We have companies sponsor tournaments, and we have people like Koogy from Brokentier, but nothing in the way of esports sponsors, and who knows if that'll change anytime soon.
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The esports sponsors want their brand to be super visible. Most of them are hardware companies with money to burn.


One thing to consider is that as you need a computer to stream, theoretically you could get sponsorship by companies who sell the bits of coputers you need to stream. Everyone wants to stream these days after all.

PLUS you need a great gaming monitor or TV! Imagine a company marketing their gaming friendly tellies to a big audience via a FGC league that uses the televisions.
 
You basically have to do more than just be good at the game you play. You have to be marketable. You actually have to do some CC-esque things. You can't just be good expect things to happen.
 
Ok, which of Fanatiq/Flash's claims do you want me to debunk first? Or just forget the whole thing?
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The bottom line or the gist of it is that the AGE crew (not just Flash/Fanatiq but Knives, ChrisG, Sabre etc) did not like how the tournament was run in general. It prioritized militant efficiency over what tournaments are about, competition and having fun (their words not mine). They didn't like how you had to sign a waiver to register despite those who pre-registered could sign it when they got there. They didn't like that byes were allowed to win over actual players just because someone was 2 minutes late to a match that they weren't even supposed to play in the first place. They didn't like Injustice being played at 9 AM. They didn't like that a person isn't considered "signed in" just because he isn't standing within 10 feet of a guy who is running the bracket (the whole basis of the Flash vs Keits argument).

Also they didn't state that UFGT is not a major because top players didn't show up nor that it had fewer people.

The UFGT guys don't need to respond to this or "debunk" this... the base reasoning for all this "drama" is that some top players don't agree with the way things are run at UFGT.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
I have Jury Duty coming up. Is that what you do, watch movies? Will there be doughnuts?
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You sit around hoping to not get called until they finally announce they have enough and get sent home. Or you do make it the juror selection process where:

1. People find whatever excuse they couldn't think of earlier
2. Are legitimately removed due to factors that would effect impartiality.
3. Jurors get removed as the prosecutor and defenders use their challenges to stack the deck. The gambling/psychology was nothing short of amazing.

Then the deliberations are hot.
 
One thing I did see on UFGT was midwest Marvel. Its refreshing to see people on stream play as poorly as me. Dropping a vergil and a S-j-MMHS combo warmed my heart.
 
Dahbomb said:
The bottom line or the gist of it is that the AGE crew (not just Flash/Fanatiq but Knives, ChrisG, Sabre etc) did not like how the tournament was run in general. It prioritized militant efficiency over what tournaments are about, competition and having fun (their words not mine). They didn't like how you had to sign a waiver to register despite those who pre-registered could sign it when they got there. They didn't like that byes were allowed to win over actual players just because someone was 2 minutes late to a match that they weren't even supposed to play in the first place. They didn't like Injustice being played at 9 AM. They didn't like that a person isn't considered "signed in" just because he isn't standing within 10 feet of a guy who is running the bracket (the whole basis of the Flash vs Keits argument).

Also they didn't state that UFGT is not a major because top players didn't show up nor that it had fewer people.

The UFGT guys don't need to respond to this or "debunk" this... the base reasoning for all this "drama" is that some top players don't agree with the way things are run at UFGT.
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I know we don't have to respond, but I'm going to because this needs to be known for anyone who reads this.

Sabre loved the tournament and showed up on time to every event he was in. He was the constant professional all weekend and again in social media afterwards. Fanatiq does not speak for all of AGE. Let's separate the players from the team when it comes to opinion.

Everyone who got a badge, signed a waiver. I should know because my fiancee and I did registration. We were very strict about that because it was an agreement to adhere to the rules. If they didn't like it, they didn't have to play. It's that simple.

They weren't two minutes late, they were 17min late because on the sheet they signed there's an agreement to be at your game 15min early. UFGT doesn't wait around for anyone, within reason of course. We as staff are not Nazis.

I understand the complaints about Injustice at 9am. I did commentary for it and wasn't that happy as well. But I still woke up on time and was in the ballroom 30min early. If I can do it after being up til 4am drinking XFactor and talking with my friends, they can too.

Flash just needed to walk 10ft and let the bracket runner know he was there. Its just courtesy. He decided to flip Keits off instead. Listen to Super Desperation Radio for my opinion on that if you wish to hear it.

Seriously, those two were such divas who did nothing but try to cause problems all weekend. If they don't return I won't shed any tears.
 
Flash just needed to walk 10ft and let the bracket runner know he was there. Its just courtesy. He decided to flip Keits off instead. Listen to Super Desperation Radio for my opinion on that if you wish to hear it.
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Flash claimed that the bracket runner made eye contact him, knew he was there but still didn't sign him up. He didn't like how he was being called out on the mic in front of everyone for not walking 10 feet.

It was a trivial matter that was really not handled well on both ends from the sound of it.
 
Dahbomb said:
Flash claimed that the bracket runner made eye contact him, knew he was there but still didn't sign him up. He didn't like how he was being called out on the mic in front of everyone for not walking 10 feet.

It was a trivial matter that was really not handled well on both ends from the sound of it.
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The rules are really clear. You sign a paper saying that you'll "check in" at your pools 15 minutes early. That means actually going up to the person running the pools and saying "I'm here". I know the person who ran my Marvel pool, and I didn't just hang around and assume that he knew I was there. I went up and checked in like I should, because that's how I, as a player, help the event run smoothly.

It's pure douchebaggery to consider yourself a special case. I remember a well-known player (I forget who) sitting down for a pool match and his opponent asked him what his name was. The dude actually acted indignant, like he's so important that everyone should know him. These guys need to shape up and treat the tournament they're attending with respect. If you say you're going to obey the rules, then obey them.

There is only one problem here, and it's certain players thinking that they're too important to be treated like the rest of the playerbase.

FatboyRoberts said:
Walk 10 feet.
Handle your business.

It's the entire reason you're there.
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Damn straight. The guys running the pools are too busy to babysit the players.
 
Karsticles said:
It's pure douchebaggery to consider yourself a special case. I remember a well-known player (I forget who) sitting down for a pool match and his opponent asked him what his name was. The dude actually acted indignant, like he's so important that everyone should know him. These guys need to shape up and treat the tournament they're attending with respect. If you say you're going to obey the rules, then obey them.

There is only one problem here, and it's certain players thinking that they're too important to be treated like the rest of the playerbase.
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Reminds me of Gootecks' Pok Chop story.
 
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