SloaneRisette
Member
There needs to be like, Moons, MastaCJ, and someone else.
That would be the best.
That would be the best.
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Karsticles
Member
Ditto, though I skipped SCV because they killed off so many characters. Screw that. No one cares about Namco progressing some non-story forward. The moment Ivy's breasts sag due to age is the day the series dies.
It's the 3D fighter with the best character designs by far, and cool weapons. SOLD.
Though yeah, character design has progressively degraded over the course of the series though. SC1/SC2 were the peak.
Well, I was talking about tournament entrants.
But we know Soul Calibur V debuted at more than 2.2x Tekken Tag Tournament 2 in the US.
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is up by about 50k in Japan vs Soul Calibur V.
SolarPowered
Member
Eh, may the best man win.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
FR|RoachKing
FR|TooMuchDamage
Gotta plug my boys. You know you want to see Aaron dance on somebody.
I thought we got LTD numbers recently? Or were those shipped?
I thought SCV had like 400k+ on TTT2.
SolarPowered
Member
You got some particularly good footage of these guys doing work? I know I've seen them play, but I can't recall their best matches.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Thanks, I'll look at that too.
I've always thought doing an event that allowed stream monsters to participate would be a great idea. Like a TO could provide a list of attending players for an event and people could vote for what matches they would like. Set up an event like bar fights or set aside an evening during a tournament to run exhibitions. Good stuff to EH
FormallyFamicom
Member
The Tekken competitive scene has been having discussions about this in recent weeks. The simple conclusions they've come up with have been:
1) The game is too hard to get into competitively if you weren't already playing T6 for some years.
2) The game being too hard has caused almost no growth in the form of new players.
3) Since there are little to no new players, veteran players are starting to drop the game because they're tired of playing the same people.
There are other factors like online being "good enough" to keep people at home, but for the most part this is the reality of the situation. Big E is organizing a Tekken only event to help reinvigorate the scene, and Norcal is trying to have some FT15 money matches to do the same. Bronson has also hinted at bringing back Strongstyle if the Big E event goes well.
Shouta
Member
Makes sense because it's the most like a 2D fighter currently what with the meter and supers, lol. 3S in 3D, without the classy.
On TTT2, I like it and I'd like to play it more but I find it to be the game that requires the most maintenance to play of all 3D games. You need to really build the muscle memory and memorize the movelists to stay competitive in it. VF and SC don't have those stringent requirements and so I can jump into both fairly easily even after a solid break.
Does the Tekken community feel the series has stagnated a bit, even with the release of TTT2 which puts an old twist on the iterative gameplay of it's predecessors?
Do they feel the franchise needs a refresh, or a major shakeup for continued success in the future not only competitively, but commercially?
Do they feel the franchise needs a refresh, or a major shakeup for continued success in the future not only competitively, but commercially?
I actually don't like Supers in SCV. I never thought the franchise ever needed them, and I think it came down to them needing to change something, and that was it. They're mostly pretty ass and boring to look at too.
Karsticles
Member
I've always felt it was the best 3D fighter as of the original.
1) Interesting character designs.
2) Highly varied gameplay.
3) Spacing has a lot of meaning.
4) Fun stages/modes like the ice stage in SCIII (the last one I played).
Shouta
Member
I just meant that it's pretty close to a Capcom game in feel aside from having some 3D elements. The gameplay is closer to Tekken which itself is closer to a Capcom game than say VF or old SC.
I've said it before but I don't like how the franchise moved to much more combo/punish-based gameplay. It used to be a more interesting game when it was spacing/mindgames like if it was a weapons-based VF.
It was my favorite 3D franchise until SC3, lol.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
yo i loved me some SCV. just came out at a bad time. playing that game/commentating for it was so fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfFg_zqeEs
(Sorry these are like Day 1 pre-major patch matches)
BUT I LOVED IT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfFg_zqeEs
(Sorry these are like Day 1 pre-major patch matches)
BUT I LOVED IT
FormallyFamicom
Member
From all that I've heard, most people feel the game itself is a near perfect Tekken game. The "newness" factor was short because even with so many returning characters and the deep tag system, the game itself had been pretty well disected during its arcade run a year before the console version even came out. Plus it's not THAT much different from T6.
Few are really asking for a complete refresh but many are expecting one, assuming Namco wants the franchise to be more accessible. T7 could probably be the same just with a smaller roster and deeper single player content and that might be enough to get sales back up.
Commercially no, competitively yes. For better sales they just need to do what they did before TTT2. Scenario campaign or some kind of story mode, fun single player shit, more customization (ttt2 has worse custimization than T6), and being a mainline title would all bring in great sales like before.
Competitively, the game needs less characters and movelists need to be trimmed down. TTT2 brought in a decent number of new players (including me), but nowhere near as many as it could have. Before TTT2 came out and a few months after, a lot of 2D players were learning the game. Most of them dropped it once they realized there is way too much to learn. The only reason I didn't drop the game is because I need to focus on school and am ok with not competing for a while. But for most of the players who wanted to learn TTT2, they wanted to compete in TTT2, and thats literally impossible if TTT2 is your first tekken.
Imo
Never played SCIII. SCIV was kinda bleh. SCV gives me the closest feeling to SCII since, which is my favourite.
It's not a perfect game by any margin, there's actually a lot about the game that REALLY frustrates and annoys me (and why I don't play it anymore), but I can still have a pretty good time with it.
Shouta
Member
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it at the start but it's hard to continue enjoying the game when all your characters are gone and the only one you like is awesome (in concept) but gets no love from the devs. >=(
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I figured Tag 2 would be big since Tag 1 was, but I guess I was wrong.
Karsticles
Member
Which one is that?
Shouta
Member
Karsticles
Member
I dig. I thought Viola's design was really cool.
FormallyFamicom
Member
One thing Aris said that has always stood out to me. On his first appearance on Cross Counter Live, he told Gootecks that Tekken is so hard to play that you would have to play two iterations of Tekken before you could be tournament level. Mike Ross and Gootecks looked flabbergasted at the thought of that. This was well before TTT2 was out in the states too.
Karsticles
Member
Tell me if I'm wrong, because I don't have any actual facts to back up this claim. But when previous experience in the previous two entries of the game can be that essential, it tells me that the gameplay is being changed very little from title to title. I don't think you can make this same claim for any 2D fighter, at least.
SCV is hurt in JPN by lack of arcade release in 10 yrs
Tekken's lack of change is what made it irrelevant. Tekken 7 will be Harada's true test of skill in design- he has a near-impossible job of making the series relevant in the US while not pissing off an arcade base in Japan that is going to be super-resistant to change (they'll be as pigheaded as ST players)
As for SC, what it needs are SC5 netcode and customization, SC3 cast (do a MK9-style reboot), SC2-esque movelists, and SC1 gameplay mechanics
Supers were a bad idea- people never played SC to do combos/hard execution stuff, they played it because it was strategic and fun. Daishi's 3S fetish was stupid and killed the series for casual players, while adding very little to the series for tournament players. I don't see him as a particularly good designer.
Of the 3d fighters, VF is the one that can get away with slight changes right now. It's also the easiest to get into.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
That's cool I guess that KillerKai is still doing vanilla Zero combos. Good luck winning anything with that.
Professor Beef
Banned
Sometimes that's a good thing.
I really have no idea where the Tekken series can go from here. TTT2 is the near perfect Tekken game and it is the culmination of Tekken from the past decade (essentially Tag to TTT2). The fact that the game gets relatively low entrants in tournaments and lower sales than its predecessors tells me that this format of Tekken has run its course.
I would not be surprised at a reboot for the game Tekken 4 style. That game wasn't a true reboot but that is essentially what I think will happen for the series next. They will remove the bloat, the fan service, lower the character numbers (no "clones" just the regulars plus some newcomers), lower the movelist and concentrate a lot more on graphics, production values and new gimmicks added to the core game play like Tekken 4 added stage interaction.
Competitive players will frown at it but with pretty graphics and flashy game play casuals will be on board. Some how Namco needs to channel into the T3 nostalgia like Capcom did with SF4.
I would not be surprised at a reboot for the game Tekken 4 style. That game wasn't a true reboot but that is essentially what I think will happen for the series next. They will remove the bloat, the fan service, lower the character numbers (no "clones" just the regulars plus some newcomers), lower the movelist and concentrate a lot more on graphics, production values and new gimmicks added to the core game play like Tekken 4 added stage interaction.
Competitive players will frown at it but with pretty graphics and flashy game play casuals will be on board. Some how Namco needs to channel into the T3 nostalgia like Capcom did with SF4.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
"The Tekken"
Karsticles
Member
Right, but the context of the discussion is series stagnation. What does a hypothetical T7 offer over T6?
SloaneRisette
Member
Tekken 7 should just have all fighting animals, clearly.
And they all have eye lasers and devil mode and can do EWGFs.
And they all have eye lasers and devil mode and can do EWGFs.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
A volcano
Parallax Scroll
Banned
KillerKai, stop being so bad at marvel.
CrazyTank940
Member
Voted for Yipes, Alukard, and Moons.
SloaneRisette
Member
Is there a stream going on or something?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
FGTV
MrCookiepants
Member
Aris was saying in his show yesterday that he dropped one of his mains because there was too much to think about and it was causing him to make mistakes.
I love the tag mechanics but it adds too many layers to an already overwhelmingly deep game.
Exactly. I have no idea what the hell T7 can add over TTT2.
More moves? Each character averages around 100 moves and is generally a complete package with tools for most situations.
More characters? TTT2 is running at 50 some odd characters if anything it can use less characters.
More ways to combo? We already have Bounds, wall combos and Tag combos. If anything Tekken needs a reduction in combos/juggles not more ways to keep your opponent from not playing.
More gimmicks added? We already have the Netsu rage, stage specific stuff and various methods of waking up. Plus every character generally has a gimmick of their own. Any further powerful gimmick or mechanic added would probably make them less solid games.
I guess they can try 3v3 assist based Tekken... now that would be something. Imagine having a EWGF for an assist..... AAWW YEEAH!!!!
When you preach to the choir, it can be a good thing, but you're going to lose a bit of your audience each time, and it eventually becomes harder to get new converts. Tekken reached that stage with T6, TTT2 was one too many on the same engine. (and T6 came out at a great time, TTT2 came out when folks had so many other choices that they didn't have to tolerate grinding out losses for a year)
T7 shouldn't be for a good while, and Tekken vs SF should be used to test out new ideas. They need to really start over design-wise from the foundational level and see what is and isn't necessary. Sometimes less is more. (and this is a problem many sequelized fighters have, you get mechanics/combo inflation). You need to reboot every so often. KOF was helped by rebooting every 4 games over the years.
call_kotaku
Member
Tekken 7 will be in 4D.
Time will play backwards for the whole match
Time will play backwards for the whole match
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Some Prince of Persia shit in a fighter would be pretty crazy.