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[webkatt]

I'm unbelievably curious about how the general American market is going to react to this. On the one hand, it's usually the hardcore that drive the early adopter sales of a new console, but if GAF is anything to go by, there's not a whole lot of love for the Xbone right now.

On the other hand the mainstream media like Fox, NBC et al are going to be reporting on this to the average consumer as The Next Big Thing for the holidays and if the Xbone gets any air time on a day time talk show, the soccer mom contingent will be throwing money at it to bring it home. Makes me wonder if we're looking at a Wii situation again, and if so, how long will the bubble sustain before it bursts?

We all know MS is going to have paid shills on the news promoting Xbone as the must have console. So when Ann Curry is doing a piece it will focus on how awesome the Kinect is and how it adds so much depth to games and other BS.

Expect Polygon "journalists" on your TV sets for the upcoming months

 

[jrDev]

Can no one confirm how Gamefly comes out in this situation?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

All this really boils down to two broad camps.

1. Collectors, people who don't have internet, people who replay games and keep their old consoles, people who sell their games themselves, people who rent, people etc. etc. who are severely affected by this and are understandably pissed off about it.


It's easy to think that camp 1 should be everyone--and it is a huge chunk of serious gamers for sure, but it's not everyone. Enter camp 2....


2. People who truly aren't really affected by any of it. People who are always online, people who only/mostly play games online (and wouldn't be gaming if their internet is down anyway), people who just trade games in (they don't sell on their own, or collect games to play again later), people who sell/trade their consoles when they move onto the next gen (thus no concerns over being able to play the games years down the road) etc. etc.


Some of camp 2 may be pissed out of the principle of the matter, but they can more easily shrug it off as it doesn't affect their gaming habits at all, and they can maybe some some benefits in not having to change discs etc.

Thus some in camp 1 need to realize that not everyone who isn't livid over this crap is a shill or fanboy etc. Some people just aren't affected by it.

Myself, I guess I fall in camp 1 as I do resell my games after beating them. But that's it--I'm always online, I don't collect or replay games, I get rid of my consoles when I move on to a newer generation and so forth. So other than having severely limited reselling options (which pisses me off), my gaming wouldn't be much affected by this. So while I don't like it at all, I'm not in full on rage/boycott gaming mode yet either.

Are you telling me that group 2 dosn't care about lending games? having better way to trade your games that an oligopoly of retailers and getting worse value for their games?, usually private trade in is way better.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Who is that guy?

SCEA employee

 

[weekend_warrior]

Is there anything salvageable out of this mess?

Potential Xbox One Family Account Exploit
---------------------------------------------
- Jerry and Richard link their accounts as family
- Jerry buys action games
- Richard buys RPG games
- (Jerry and Richard become the "Prime Family Member" if you like - the one that can play anytime.)
- They both have access to each other's accounts
- They can split game costs with some organisation

Is this possible? I mean, I won't buy one, but maybe that's an exploit people can use.

It's extremely unlikely that MS has overlooked such an obvious exploit. There is going to be some type of requirement to connect two accounts as "family accounts". Might be that both need to originate from the same console, use the same creditcard, have the same IP.

The best way to exploit this system is to simple share the login information for one account you with someone you trust. Since logging into any console allows to to play your games on it without disks, you could do this with someone on the other side of the planet.

 

[Ghazi]

FRANCISSSSS!!!!!

How much shit has this man broken over the course of this one console generation?

 

[zeopower6]

I hate this "community" sometimes.

This is the last generation of physical media, and even during this generation I would wager that the vast majority of games will be purchased digitally. You can rage against your windmills all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

Not everyone has the ability to access fast and unlimited Internet. I would much rather get a game's physical copy than spend 20~ hours downloading it while it also eats up at a monthly bandwidth cap.

The best way to exploit this system is to simple share the login information for one account you with someone you trust. Since logging into any console allows to to play your games on it without disks, you could do this with someone on the other side of the planet.

Honestly, I think they'd have probably thought of all the possible exploits and planned accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if they had some kind of warning for doing something like that tbh. :/

 

[fallingdove]

Francis, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn_NoMjuFLc

That is the craziest Francis I have seen yet.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Publishers are getting exactly what they want, so I don't want to hear any complaints if they don't like the results. Likewise, since developers aren't going to bat for their audience in any meaningful capacity, they better not expect any sympathy if this backfires.

 

[Kinyou]

all I know is if they are trying to encourage the DD world, they had better offer me some trade on my digital (which now looks dead) or price digital quite a bit cheaper than disc

Unfortunately does it seem like they're more about kissing Gamestops ass than kicking them out of business

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yep,

https://twitter.com/Nikoro

Don't fail me now SCE

 

[thepotatoman]

This confirms XboxOne is dead to gamefly then?

Whelp?!!!!!!!!!!!!


:-/

Well publishers and retailers are allowed to come to pretty much any agreement they'd like, so if Gamefly and the publisher can come to a distribution deal they can technically do it I guess. Doesn't seem very possible for Gamefly to reach a deal it could afford though.

 

[maabus1999]

.......

You do realize you can play games on Steam offline right? That you can play single player games without being online right?

But you can't ever play it the first time without going online once. It looks like one reason MSFT did the 24 hour check is because of them trying to allow games to be "given to a friend" or "traded in" which Steam at the moment does not do. If MSFT improves upon their authentication ideas that in their mind works, then the 24 hour may go longer and longer

Even though I'm a collector, I wouldn't mind selling few of my several hundred steam titles, because they annoy me for being on my list!!!

Oh and Steam's offline is about 2 weeks. I've never had it work longer then that on my laptops that I rarely sign in (save for reauthenticating).

 

[Haint]

So what's to stop them from using Kinect to flag certain keywords — swears, n-word, c-word, fuck etc — and ban a persons account, which would lock them from accessing their game library?

This would wipe out all the dude bro frat house, but seriously, it's a good point people are overlooking. All your shit is gone should MS decide to ban your account for whatever reason. File a credit card charge back for erroneous charges or their slime ball auto-billing? Banned. Piss off a clan that decided to carpet bomb your GT with complaints of "hacking" or launching hateful personal attacks? Banned. Dare to question or criticize MS on official Xbox forums (a la some of the EA scandals)? Banned. Even Steam has had situations like this.

 

[EternalTruth]

The "bu- bu- it's just like Steam!" comparisons make absolutely no sense.

1) Steam is not the only source of digital distribution in its "own" platform. There are plenty of other venues, including good ol' box retail, that actively compete with Steam. There's even GoG, which prides itself in being 100% DRM free. No such options on the X1.

2) Steam does not require online check-ins every 24 hours, X1 does. It's not a month either, it's indefinite.

3) I can log into any computer regardless of its location with my account and get 100% functionality on that computer. X1 does not let me do that.

4) Steam got famous in the first place for the completely ridiculous sales. Until that happened the service was niche and was actually hated by many an angry Half-Life 2 launch buyer. Just last week they had Alan Wake and its American Nightmare DLC for $4 total. Microsoft is NEVER going to make those kinds of sales because they control all methods of distribution now.

5) You can even buy Steam keys from different retailers. There have been countless times where games appear on Green Man Gaming or Amazon DD that are far and away better than any time they have been on sale on Steam. So even within the steam platform there's no monopoly.

6) I can back up any Steam game I want to any form of storage I want and install the game from that backup any time I want. That's far more convenient than Microsoft's "Never use a disc again!" spin, and it already exists on Steam.

So excuse me if I call bullshit on any comparisons with Steam. As "draconian" as Steam's policies may be, they're nothing compared to the restrictions on the X1.

Excellent points.

 

[Soren01]

X1 will not make great sucess in Latin America.

 

[Snapshot King]

I hate this "community" sometimes.

This is the last generation of physical media, and even during this generation I would wager that the vast majority of games will be purchased digitally. You can rage against your windmills all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Both console manufacturers will have digital trade in options where we sell back the license. Both manufacturers will have online rental options.

Putting a new disc in your machine will soon feel as quaint and antiquated as listening to music from a CD.

Over the last 7+ years of owning a PS360 they have not been connected to the Internet a handful of times, and only once or twice for more than 24 hours and I have lived in three different countries during that time span.

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

Arbitrarily telling me I can't play my games because there's a service outage in my area is fucking outrageous and never justified, and comes off as treating me like a criminal instead of a legitimate consumer. Is digital delivery the future? Absolutely. Is turning your console or device into a fucking BRICK because you lost internet? Fuck that. I refuse.

 

[JHall]

Francis, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn_NoMjuFLc

I'm dying :lol

 

[ascii42]

Don't fail me now SCE

I just gotta believe.

 

[RiPPn]

Sony has only said you don't need a persistent internet connection.. Microsoft said the same thing before the reveal..

Hopefully Sony pulls through as our savior..

No Sony said it will never have to connect to the internet. They said it will be like past consoles because they have customers in markets that don't have internet. Something along those lines.

 

[n00bsauce]

lol... people are really not getting it. YOU COULD DO THAT BEFORE! Just bring the goddamn games to your friends place. Now you'll have to log in, download em and once you're logged out, he won't be able to play it anymore

You win your internetz

A lot of people hurr durr about the family component forgot about that part with game discs. It's like apologist tend to have fleeting memories of their 360. Unless they have no friends to go over to and play the game with. That's not taking a shot, that's a legitimate reason.

 

[Jeels]

Not everyone has the ability to access fast and unlimited Internet. I would much rather get a game's physical copy than spend 20~ hours downloading it while it also eats up at a monthly bandwidth cap.

Yup, this is the case with many people in the first world even. Let's not get started on emerging/developing markets.

 

[TAJ]

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

I bought the last two MS consoles day one. My Xbox was never online once. My 360 was only online to download from XBLM or FFXI for a brief period.
I bought into PS3 in launch window for Blu-ray. I bought a DVD player during the test market phase. I bought an HD-DVD player at launch. I had unlimited Verizon mobile broadband service for my laptop in 2006.
I'm as early adopter as they come. Don't speak for me.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

All this really boils down to two broad camps.

1. Collectors, people who don't have internet, people who replay games and keep their old consoles, people who sell their games themselves, people who rent, people etc. etc. who are severely affected by this and are understandably pissed off about it.


It's easy to think that camp 1 should be everyone--and it is a huge chunk of serious gamers for sure, but it's not everyone. Enter camp 2....


2. People who truly aren't really affected by any of it. People who are always online, people who only/mostly play games online (and wouldn't be gaming if their internet is down anyway), people who just trade games in (they don't sell on their own, or collect games to play again later), people who sell/trade their consoles when they move onto the next gen (thus no concerns over being able to play the games years down the road) etc. etc.


Some of camp 2 may be pissed out of the principle of the matter, but they can more easily shrug it off as it doesn't affect their gaming habits at all, and they can maybe some some benefits in not having to change discs etc.

Thus some in camp 1 need to realize that not everyone who isn't livid over this crap is a shill or fanboy etc. Some people just aren't affected by it.

Myself, I guess I fall in camp 1 as I do resell my games after beating them. But that's it--I'm always online, I don't collect or replay games, I get rid of my consoles when I move on to a newer generation and so forth. So other than having severely limited reselling options (which pisses me off), my gaming wouldn't be much affected by this. So while I don't like it at all, I'm not in full on rage/boycott gaming mode yet either.

A few notes:

First, the fact that this console eliminates an entire camp of gamers with no actual benefit to anyone is why the Xbox One is a bad product.

Second, a large amount of people in Camp 2 seems to be under the impression that if they talk about their perfect situation enough, that every imperfect situation will disappear.

Third, there's a difference between "not being livid" and actively defending this bullshit.

 

[Revoh]

Francis, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn_NoMjuFLc

this guy rocks

 

[DC1]

I hate this "community" sometimes.

This is the last generation of physical media, and even during this generation I would wager that the vast majority of games will be purchased digitally. You can rage against your windmills all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Both console manufacturers will have digital trade in options where we sell back the license. Both manufacturers will have online rental options.

Putting a new disc in your machine will soon feel as quaint and antiquated as listening to music from a CD.

Over the last 7+ years of owning a PS360 they have not been connected to the Internet a handful of times, and only once or twice for more than 24 hours and I have lived in three different countries during that time span.

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

That's very closed way to look at.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

The truth is they simply don't want customers without internet.

They want people buying digital games as they get all the money, vs. selling games for whatever price to retailers who sell them marked up to $60.

They want people paying for Xbox Live.

They want people buying/renting movies and shows.

And so on.

It sucks, but really why should they want business from someone with no internet, who primarily buys used games etc.? Hardware gets sold at a loss for a good chunk of a generation, so if someone isn't buying new games or digital content, what do they have to lose by telling that customer to go pound sand?

Just the nature of business. You want to attract the customers who will spend a ton of money with you, and not worry about those who spend little.

Now, this could well backfire as it's definitely pissing off the hardcore gamer crowd who buys a ton of games apiece. So i'm not in anyway defending them. Just saying we can't really expect them to really care about segments of the market with no internet, or the segment that primarily buys used as these are markets they don't get much money from anyway.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Guys I'm real worried.. I'm getting mostly these kind of responses from people.

do you love your 360? the one will be better graphics for sure...is it up to what we want/expect...no...but 8 years since the last console, im ready!

because the online experience on ps is sub par...you get what you pay for...we shall see, im getting one for sure....I hope for the best lol

 

[TheD]

But you can't ever play it the first time without going online once. It looks like one reason MSFT did the 24 hour check is because of them trying to allow games to be "gifted" or "traded in" which Steam at the moment does not do. If MSFT improves upon their authentication ideas that in their mind works, then the 24 hour may go longer and longer

Even though I'm a collector, I wouldn't mind selling few of my several hundred steam titles, because they annoy me for being on my list!!!

Oh and Steam's offline is about 2 weeks. I've never had it work longer then that on my laptops that I rarely sign in (save for reauthenticating).

It is not fucking 2 motherfucking weeks!

I have had steam in offline mode for about 9 months!

Stop spreading bullshit!

 

[Windforce]

So... If someone hacks the Xbox Live and it is down for 2-3 days.

This means no one in the world can play Xbone games?? Guys... do I really understand this right?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

So what's to stop them from using Kinect to flag certain keywords — swears, n-word, c-word, fuck etc — and ban a persons account, which would lock them from accessing their game library?

Ya, if it's listening in while my wife is watching a Canucks game, my account would be toast.

 

[Courage]

Ironically, they're appealing to the American households that probably have the spottiest internet connections compared to other developed countries.

 

[Heart Attack]

X1 will not make great sucess in Latin America.

Carlos Slim to get even richer.

 

[crimsonspider89]

I live in rural areas and had PS3 at launch, Wii at launch.

So don't feed me the BS of people with bad internet aren't early adopeters.

 

[Soler]

I hate this "community" sometimes.

This is the last generation of physical media, and even during this generation I would wager that the vast majority of games will be purchased digitally. You can rage against your windmills all you want, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Both console manufacturers will have digital trade in options where we sell back the license. Both manufacturers will have online rental options.

Putting a new disc in your machine will soon feel as quaint and antiquated as listening to music from a CD.

Over the last 7+ years of owning a PS360 they have not been connected to the Internet a handful of times, and only once or twice for more than 24 hours and I have lived in three different countries during that time span.

People without Internet are not early adopters and by the time these people get around to buying one of these new consoles they will probably have better Internet.

your post history seems questionable

 

[Delusibeta]

Can no one confirm how Gamefly comes out in this situation?

No rentals at launch, confirmed and official. They'll probably strike a deal later down the line, but at launch, nope.avi.

 

[RiccochetJ]

How exactly does the family thing work? Isn't there kind of a loophole there? At least for single player only games, I could create 10 other 'family' members and then let people borrow the passwords for them so they could have access to at least those games?

I'm guessing it's only for Gold members though.

 

[Jarmel]

So... If someone hacks the Xbox Live and it is down for 2-3 days.

This means no one in the world can play Xbone games?? Guys... do I really understand this right?

Correct.

 

[daffy]

Microsoft will literally control everything. Every avenue of game purchase, they will control. There will be no fire sales when retail is still strong, when a Microsoft approved WalMart can still make money off of QuantumBreak at 59.99 7 months after release. You will be sucked. There will be $40 Greatest Hits at best.

 

[Ensoul]

I know they some of this and even pushed back on the publishers about the used games but this is still pretty confusing.

As far as I am concerned you buy a game and you own it on this system. Going to be a real pain in the ass going to gamestop or looking up online whether or not your used games can actually be traded in.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I live in rural areas and had PS3 at launch, Wii at launch.

So don't feed me the BS of people with bad internet aren't early adopeters.

Something aomething Adam Orth move away something

 

[n00bsauce]

I have a reliable connection.

I don't buy used.

I don't sell my games.

Good luck to your nonremovable 500GB HD. If it's gonna share the live tv using the same HD as well. If you don't plan on selling games before, when you run out of space, you might reconsider

 

[The Elite]

So... If someone hacks the Xbox Live and it is down for 2-3 days.

This means no one in the world can play Xbone games?? Guys... do I really understand this right?

Yeah. This seems like a possibility. I imagine they would have some sort of verification backup system.

 

[pargonta]

Can no one confirm how Gamefly comes out in this situation?

no. but since the one does not do game rentals, if gamefly orders stock... once you were mailed a copy you would need to purchase ownership of the game for full price i would assume.

edit: but why would gamefly order stock.. idk.

 

[Kinyou]

4) Steam got famous in the first place for the completely ridiculous sales. Until that happened the service was niche and was actually hated by many an angry Half-Life 2 launch buyer. Just last week they had Alan Wake and its American Nightmare DLC for $4 total. Microsoft is NEVER going to make those kinds of sales because they control all methods of distribution now.

Actually was Alan wake on sale for 5$ a few days ago...

 

[rohlfinator]

The truth is they simply don't want customers without internet.

They want people buying digital games as they get all the money, vs. selling games for whatever price to retailers who sell them marked up to $60.

They want people paying for Xbox Live.

They want people buying/renting movies and shows.

And so on.

They want people looking at ads every time they're on the dashboard.

 

[jett]

They really could have branded this communication better.
Something like:

 

[sambox]

FRANCISSSSS!!!!!

hipsters are nervous

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

But you can't ever play it the first time without going online once. It looks like one reason MSFT did the 24 hour check is because of them trying to allow games to be "given to a friend" or "traded in" which Steam at the moment does not do. If MSFT improves upon their authentication ideas that in their mind works, then the 24 hour may go longer and longer

Even though I'm a collector, I wouldn't mind selling few of my several hundred steam titles, because they annoy me for being on my list!!!

Oh and Steam's offline is about 2 weeks. I've never had it work longer then that on my laptops that I rarely sign in (save for reauthenticating).

One time authentication is fine. It works for Windows, for Christ sakes. And you're a fool if you think MS is going to extend the time between those checks just because they feel like nice guys. It'll be "oh the publishers won't let us" and the usual fake tears.

Steam's online mode lasts longer than that and a hell of a lot of games on there are DRM-free, not to mention competitors such as GOG that offer competition.

Actually was Alan wake on sale for 5$ a few days ago...

Everyone jumps to that one example, but they can never think of another. I woner why that is.

 

[Soler]

I am in Dmaul's "camp 2". Internet always on, rarely if ever sell games/buy used games, so the Xbone stuff doesn't personally affect me.

That being said, I won't touch this fucking mess. What a god damn disaster in planning and marketing. As for the idea that Sony HAS to follow suit to keep the publishers happy, that's a two-way street. If the PS4 install base is significant at all (which it obviously will be) it would be beyond stupid for third parties to neglect the console just for used games/DRM purposes. They want to sell as many copies as possible, bottom line.

agreed