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[Schobeleth]

Lol great so now anyone who supports and wants a new xbox one is a paid corporate employee? genius.

also what happened to that thread which said the ps4 is now behind a pay wall, it seems to have just disappeared.

Yeah I don't like how it has become like a witch hunt lately in here... Also that thread was made with posts from thuway or one of those supposed insiders, but then he retracted his statements saying he said too much, that his info was old, and other people in Gaf said that more recently they've been told PSN will remain free to play for it's basic service. We'll only know for sure on Monday though :\

 

[Moxx19]

We have no evidence this happened though. We are getting worked up over a rumor. I know you pointed out the 'unduly' thing but it can also mean "inappropriately or unjustifiably". It seems you are grasping at straws. Regardless, they could be lying.

Is that really worth persecuting a whole section of users? Obviously it is to you. You made it clear that it is justified in your eyes but I am asking Gaf in general as well.

With your logic you must bash MS to be accepted at Gaf... I can only hope the rest of Gaf has bashed MS. Maybe it should be on the front page so newcomers won't get banned?

Lastly, in the event MS did do this, I would be mad at them but also you the persecutor. You aren't making Gaf a better place. You are making it worse. Just because some muslims committed terrorist acts doesn't mean you should treat all muslims as terrorists. I think we should just let the mods sort it out.

This isn't a witch hunt. The mods will sort this out. But I wouldn't blame the other posters for their suspicions. It gets rather irritating that I enter threads again and again and see the same paper thin arguments being brought up that have been argued time and time again. It derails the topic at hand and it isn't conducive to a genuine discussion, making it all a pointless waste of everyone's time.

 

[Rashid]

This makes me wonder if Sony are doing it for the Vita and PS3/4 on here, and Nvidia, AMD, Intel. I bet they're all doing it.

 

[Elrina]

I think people are just underestimating the tenacity of platform fandom. The rhetoric we're seeing from Xbox One supporters is no different than what we were seeing from Sony supporters in the infancy of the Playstation 3. People defend the shit they're personally invested in.

This rumor amounts to "I'm an intern at X, and overheard some things at Y," which used to taken with a grain of salt a year ago and prior. Is there some truth to these accusations? Probably, but I don't believe it to be corporate sanctioned. I think its a case of employees "defending their honor," which is fairly understandable, albeit highly unethical.

What people think is happening is honestly some Ready Player One shit Lol.

The Reddit post isn't the only reason this is known to be going on.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60276093&postcount=352

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61485185&postcount=2844

 

[Templar_Dante]

Hey guys, quick two questions. These shilling corporate lackeys, how is it some of them say they have been members since 2010??? Do they pass their username/password around their offices based on the scum that pay them? I have been reading here for months (the gaming section), but yesterday Gaffers mentioned how people go crazy with their love of Samsung phones? So are the same companys that get these contracts simply handing their details to others to whore a product out?
Question 2 , Can you ban their IP addresses ??? Wont that nip the problem? It seems a more permanant solution.

 

[ShadyJ]

Not looking forward them invading GAF

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

This thread...makes me paranoid.

I see fervent MS defenders everywhere and they're all using the same arguments.

Keep in mind that genuine debaters tend to use the same arguments as well. When arguing a position, people don't just choose arguments arbitrarily. They choose the ones that make the most sense or that have been the most effective in the past. This leads to a small selection of arguments being repeated. It does not mean, at all, that the people using those arguments are part of a coordinated conspiracy.

 

[Durante]

Hey guys, quick two questions. These shilling corporate lackeys, how is it some of them say they have been members since 2010???

It sounds like something out of a bad movie, but at this point I'm willing to believe there are some "sleeper registrations" which were made long ago in preparation for a huge PR need. Like getting console gamers to give up their consumer rights.

 

[Fistwell]

Hey guys, quick two questions. These shilling corporate lackeys, how is it some of them say they have been members since 2010???

Because they have foresight to some extent, and just register ahead of time figuring it might be useful down the line. Possibly. Allegedly. Maybe?

Do they pass their username/password around their offices based on the scum that pay them? I have been reading here for months (the gaming section), but yesterday Gaffers mentioned how people go crazy with their love of Samsung phones? So are the same companys that get these contracts simply handing their details to others to whore a product out?

Dunno precisely how it works, but my understanding is that a same guy can "manage" upwards of 50 accounts/user names at a time. Dunno how frequently they exchange accounts among colleagues, if at all.

Question 2 , Can you ban their IP addresses ??? Wont that nip the problem? It seems a more permanant solution.

Revolving IPs, proxies, etc. They're (probably) more sophisticated than you (appear to) suspect.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Hey guys, quick two questions. These shilling corporate lackeys, how is it some of them say they have been members since 2010???


Question 2 , Can you ban their IP addresses ??? Wont that nip the problem? It seems a more permanant solution.

Its not hard to setup a bunch of accounts and leave them on the shelf for a while if you foresee a particular community being worth the investment in the future.

Banning an IP address is pretty pointless for those willing to put in effort, as paid marketers would be. Proxies and VPNs are not hard to find. A marketing firm could easily have a fair swathe of IP addresses the provide to.

 

[Gori]

These types of things are never done by the companies themselves, or even companies hired by the companies. This would be a part of what special PR agencies hire others to do, and usually hidden in some other cost.

So, literally, Microsoft saying "non of our employees or anyone paid by us is doing this" is true. It is people paid by people paid by them, but I can guarantee that they are doing it. This is how it works, and this also mean that they can blame the subcontractors if something is made public.

 

[watership]

Did anyone notice that some investigation was done and they changed the reddit thread title to Rumour/probably untrue? Now the thread has been deleted by the reddit mods.

 

[atomsk]

skimmed the thread and hadn't seen this dude posted

http://www.reddit.com/user/SeahawksPride

this is my favorite post

Valve is in fact worse than you know.

They ask for your IRS tax information. Add that to the fact that their servers were hacked last year and you have a very huge problem.

Everything on there is now micro-transactions through their Steam Marketplace. Guess why Valve takes a cut from everything there. It is pay-2-win and bait & switch.

Also every time you start Steam, you will be spammed with advertisements.

You have no proof of this.

Microsoft has been named the most ethical company by Forbes magazine.

You're full of lies.

 

[Phat Michael]

Yeah I don't like how it has become like a witch hunt lately in here... Also that thread was made with posts from thuway or one of those supposed insiders, but then he retracted his statements saying he said too much, that his info was old, and other people in Gaf said that more recently they've been told PSN will remain free to play for it's basic service. We'll only know for sure on Monday though :

ah fair enough man cheers for the update. but yes, I'm gonna get both consoles but really excited for what the x1 brings to the table.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Keep in mind that genuine debaters tend to use the same arguments as well. When arguing a position, people don't just choose arguments arbitrarily. They choose the ones that make the most sense or that have been the most effective in the past. This leads to a small selection of arguments being repeated. It does not mean, at all, that the people using those arguments are part of a coordinated conspiracy.

I think the problem is that most of the arguments repeated are terrible and anticonsumer; they actively go against the poster's interests.

It's just hard to imagine someone sensible arguing for less options, hence why a lot of people assume it's marketeers.

 

[Templar_Dante]

Because they have foresight to some extent, and just register ahead of time figuring it might be useful down the line. Possibly. Allegedly. Maybe?


Dunno precisely how it works, but my understanding is that a same guy can "manage" upwards of 50 accounts/user names at a time. Dunno how frequently they exchange accounts among colleagues, if at all.


Revolving IPs, proxies, etc. They're (probably) more sophisticated than you (appear to) suspect.

I just figured it could be possible to block I.Ps, and even detect when proxies are used. Much like the hackers that try to get to PSN and it detects a proxy upon sign and stops them. I did not know the problem was so out of hand though. I was seriously naive in this regard.

 

[watership]

So that reddit post was deleted by the mods because it turned into a massive MS shill witch hunt.

A new thread was created and it called immediately tried to do the same thing and a mod comment was posted.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1fwby3/considering_the_last_thread_was_mysteriously/.compact

MOD NOTE:

We are aware of the allegations that Microsoft is directly or indirectly manipulating the content of /r/gaming, and have requested the assistance of the Reddit administrators in investigating these allegations and, if necessary, taking appropriate action to block it. In the meantime, discussing these allegations and any other aspect of the XBox One is quite allowed in /r/gaming, and you may continue to do so at your heart's content.

We are also aware of the fact that many users have taken it upon themselves to publicly "out" any user who they think may be associated with Microsoft, organizing harassment and downvote brigades, and posting personal information. This is NOT acceptable, and was the reason the thread being referenced by OP was removed. Please see the sitewide Rules of Reddit and note rules 2 and 3.

ANY POST OR POSTER ENGAGING IN OR ENCOURAGING THE POSTING OF PERSONAL INFORMATION OR VOTE MANIPULATION WILL BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY AND WITHOUT WARNING. Any user and/or users engaged in this behavior will be permanently banned from /r/gaming.

Apparently redditors have been doxxing anyone who is pro Xbox or MS.

 

[Templar_Dante]

These types of things are never done by the companies themselves, or even companies hired by the companies. This would be a part of what special PR agencies hire others to do, and usually hidden in some other cost.

So, literally, Microsoft saying "non of our employees or anyone paid by us is doing this" is true. It is people paid by people paid by them, but I can guarantee that they are doing it. This is how it works, and this also mean that they can blame the subcontractors if something is made public.

It is happening. Im seeing the SAME stupid PR crap on Youtube and N4G. Cut and paste, rinse repeat. MS has double the marketing budget allocated for advertising? Now we know where the F its going!
Ive quit visiting every site I used to now, Gaf is my only gaming refuge. I just cant counter argue these guys anymore. Its fruitless.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I think the problem is that most of the arguments repeated are terrible and anticonsumer; they actively go against the poster's interests.

It's just hard to imagine someone sensible arguing for less options, hence why a lot of people assume it's marketeers.

Any argument in favor of the X1 will be perceived as terrible and anti-consumer by those people who think the X1 is itself terrible and anti-consumer. So that alone isn't evidence for shilling either.

My point is just that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to conclusively determine whether a statement is genuine or shilling based on the statement alone. That's why it's good that the mods have methods to find the source of a poster's account.

I do agree that there are some posts that just seem so ridiculous that it's hard to believe they aren't plants, but you have to keep in mind that in a community of tens of thousands, there will be some people with outlying opinions that appear ridiculous or bizarre to most others.

The use of certain phrasings (rather than certain arguments) is IMO a better way to gauge bullshit posts. There are just some posts that don't sound like the way people talk on message boards. But again, it's a subtle difference, and you can never be sure.

All in all, I'm not saying there aren't viral marketers on NeoGAF, just that it's probably not fruitful for other users to try to identify them by their words alone.

 

[NullPointer]

The way I see it, its up to the posters to call out the arguments, and the mods to call out the posters.

 

[Roto13]

So that reddit post was deleted by the mods because it turned into a massive MS shill witch hunt.

A new thread was created and it called immediately tried to do the same thing and a mod comment was posted.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1fwby3/considering_the_last_thread_was_mysteriously/.compact



Apparently redditors have been doxxing anyone who is pro Xbox or MS.

Reddit's gonna Reddit

 

[twobear]

The way I see it, its up to the posters to call out the arguments, and the mods to call out the posters.

Yeah, pretty much. I think the best thing to do as a community is acknowledge that it's a thing, ignore the more obvious plants and continue as normal. Let the mods deal with getting rid of them. Witch hunts benefit nobody, and as bad for the community as paid plants are, whipping yourselves into a frothy mess trying to call out every person who isn't incandescent with righteous fury at MS as a shill isn't going to help anything.

 

[Kenshin001]

skimmed the thread and hadn't seen this dude posted

http://www.reddit.com/user/SeahawksPride

this is my favorite post

Wow, that is shameless to the point of being almost parody. Such blatant shilling by MS employees just makes my decision to purchase the amazing PlayStation®4 by Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc.with its forthcoming AAA titles DriveClub™ and Killzone: Shadow Fall™ even easier.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

Reddit's gonna Reddit

You can always count on reddit to take things to the farthest possible extreme.

 

[NullPointer]

...whipping yourselves into a frothy mess trying to call out every person who isn't incandescent with righteous fury at MS as a shill isn't going to help anything.

And that doesn't mean we should blame incandescent persons either. Maybe its a purer form than crude flesh.

Yeah.

 

[Shaheed79]

Not saying this isn't morally questionable but managing social media is part and parcel of every major business. I'm not surprised at all that this might be happening. I guess the question is how transparent a company is when they do it. Consumers stupid enough to be sucked in by this in isolation deserve everything they get

Corporations and governments use similar logic in order to excuse very immoral and unethical behavior. This is why they consider the public to be very simple and easily manipulated.

"If you let them take advantage of you then you deserve to be taken advantage of", has been used to justify some of the more heinous pursuits and deceptions ever done to a population or group.

This line of thinking can become very dangerous to a society. Different societies are slowly being conditioned to be less ethical and more phlegmatic towards certain issues. Consumer rights and personal privacy are definitely targeted issues. Xbox One appears to deal with both of these.

 

[Freki]

hardcastlemccormick has done a good job of compiling their talking points:

Xbone Defense Form - Select One or Multiple

[] You are getting too emotional, allowing me to ignore what you say
[] Gamers are getting entitled again
[] You're a fanboy/You just hate Microsoft
[] NeoGAF/Reddit/the hivemind is biased
[] Doesn't matter, you'll change your mind and buy the console anyway
[] Gamers just don't like change
[] Gamers are just mad because it's not about them
[] Opinions don't matter, only sales matter
[] Debating about games is meaningless anyway
[] This is the future
[] It's the exact same thing as the PC market because of Steam, so you're a hypocrite
[] Sony will do the same
[] My perfect internet connection invalidates your imperfect internet connection
[] Family sharing is going to be huge

 

[JDSN]

hardcastlemccormick has done a good job of compiling their talking points:

Xbone Defense Form - Select One or Multiple

[] You are getting too emotional, allowing me to ignore what you say
[] Gamers are getting entitled again
[] You're a fanboy/You just hate Microsoft
[] NeoGAF/Reddit/the hivemind is biased
[] Doesn't matter, you'll change your mind and buy the console anyway
[] Gamers just don't like change
[] Gamers are just mad because it's not about them
[] Opinions don't matter, only sales matter
[] Debating about games is meaningless anyway
[] This is the future
[] It's the exact same thing as the PC market because of Steam, so you're a hypocrite
[] Sony will do the same
[] My perfect internet connection invalidates your imperfect internet connection
[] Family sharing is going to be huge
[] No avatar

added another one.

 

[Ichabod]

Excuse me sirs, but could you spare a few minutes to hear the good news about Xbox 1?

Spoiler

I got nothin' ._.

 

[Freki]

added another one.

No avatar is a talking point?

 

[Nizz]

The Reddit post isn't the only reason this is known to be going on.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60276093&postcount=352

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61485185&postcount=2844

Good to see GAF mods are on the case.

 

[Dlacy13g]

Given we don't know who this "source" is and the claim can't be proven or bebunked unless that person came forward it got me thinking. Would this not be a very damaging blow that a competitor of Microsoft would most certainly want at this paricular time? How do we know this isn't some Sony plant from their new PR firm trying to sink the knife deeper? Just saying the conspiracy we all assume could be something very different.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Given we don't know who this "source" is and the claim can't be proven or bebunked unless that person came forward it got me thinking. Would this not be a very damaging blow that a competitor of Microsoft would most certainly want at this paricular time? How do we know this isn't some Sony plant from their new PR firm trying to sink the knife deeper? Just saying the conspiracy we all assume could be something very different.

Could be.

But doesn't make a huge lot of sense in the current environment.

Sony is going to do one of two things:

Have a DRM policy as asinine as Microsoft's. Trying to twist the knife on Microsoft would be counterproductive since the rage will transfer to the last person dumb enough to open their mouths if its still ongoing at the time.

Have a DRM policy that is less asinine than Microsoft's. Twisting the knife is completely unnecessary, they've pretty much already one over everybody who's going to be particular perturbed by this.

 

[Alucrid]

I still don't understand why a PR firm would use their own email addresses to sign up for forums where they plan on shilling.

 

[Neo C.]

Huh, so there are laws against it. Interesting.

I'm very pleased. No one can defend this unethical work anymore.

 

[Fistwell]

I still don't understand why a PR firm would use their own email addresses to sign up for forums where they plan on shilling.

Yeah that does sound kinda stupid.

 

[semiconscious]

I still don't understand why a PR firm would use their own email addresses to sign up for forums where they plan on shilling.

never assume any of these people are particularly intelligent. there's a difference between being sleazy & being smart ...

 

[Burgess_101]

MS certainty aren't doing themselves any favours. Its almost as if they knew the backlash would happen and damage limitation was most important.

 

[Fistwell]

MS certainty aren't doing themselves any favours. Its almost as if they knew the backlash would happen and damage limitation was most important.

Honestly, I think they just do it by default, whenever they launch something, as part of their marketing strategy. But, yeah, this giant shitstorm of backlash might have motivated them to step it up.

 

[May16]

This makes me wonder if Sony are doing it for the Vita and PS3/4 on here, and Nvidia, AMD, Intel. I bet they're all doing it.

No, the makers of the Sony's SONY PlayStation® Vita® by Sony wouldn't do that ever. Sony's SONY devices and services practically sell themselves with the recognition that comes® with all Sony PlayStation® associated consumer products.

 

[blurredvision]

I don't really know why this is supposed to be shocking news. I'm certain all tech companies do this in some form or fashion. Microsoft is willing to pay millions upon millions of dollars to put an ad in front of your face, you think they'll pass up the opportunity to market directly to prospective consumers for free?

Companies have been doing this for years, nothing new here.

 

[Freki]

I don't really know why this is supposed to be shocking news. I'm certain all tech companies do this in some form or fashion. Microsoft is willing to pay millions upon millions of dollars to put an ad in front of your face, you think they'll pass up the opportunity to market directly to prospective consumers for free?

Companies have been doing this for years, nothing new here.

That makes it ok? Should we just shut up and accept it?

 

[Kenshin001]

Wow, that is shameless to the point of being almost parody. Such blatant shilling by MS employees just makes my decision to purchase the amazing PlayStation®4 by Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc.with its forthcoming AAA titles DriveClub™ and Killzone: Shadow Fall™ even easier.

No, the makers of the Sony's SONY PlayStation® Vita® by Sony wouldn't do that ever. Sony's SONY devices and services practically sell themselves with the recognition that comes® with all Sony PlayStation® associated consumer products.

You stole my joke. I'm telling our supervisor.

 

[KiteGr]

You people know that this can now be used against MS!

Now whenever some Xbox fanboy refuses to admit that the Xbone is shit, we can always accuse him of being a MS employ.

I believe that 60% of the time we'll be actually correct!

 

[demosthenes]

Lol great so now anyone who supports and wants a new xbox one is a paid corporate employee? genius.

also what happened to that thread which said the ps4 is now behind a pay wall, it seems to have just disappeared.

The OP admitted it was old info when someone else came in and said their recent info sqid it was free. People need to stop play ing the victim card in gaf.

 

[Jake Tower]

It sounds like something out of a bad movie, but at this point I'm willing to believe there are some "sleeper registrations" which were made long ago in preparation for a huge PR need. Like getting console gamers to give up their consumer rights.

The Fifth Column of posters.

 

[Hypereides]

I find this whole situation disgusting from these corporations. They try to manipulate us in every way they can and they dont care how they have to do it.

Business is business. Its a shame but its true. You gotta pull some strings to ensure succes. Microsoft and Sony are both fighting dirty under the surface I'd imagine.

Corporate espionage and manipulative propaganda is part of it. Especially in advertising. And reputation management is a part of that.

Microsoft and Sony are both banking on their respective consoles to net large profits, it's no wonder they'd be extending to such tactics. It's pretty psychological and tactical.

The only significant variable here is, Microsoft will have a harder time influencing the consumers/public with such ideas, based on the obvious list of drawbacks of their console.

 

[Fusebox]

Wow, that is shameless to the point of being almost parody. Such blatant shilling by MS employees just makes my decision to purchase the amazing PlayStation®4 by Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc.with its forthcoming AAA titles DriveClub™ and Killzone: Shadow Fall™ even easier.

Lol I got a kick out of this.

 

[DryvBy]

Detectives on the internet will always find you shills. Great job, guys.

 

[DR3AM]

Given we don't know who this "source" is and the claim can't be proven or bebunked unless that person came forward it got me thinking. Would this not be a very damaging blow that a competitor of Microsoft would most certainly want at this paricular time? How do we know this isn't some Sony plant from their new PR firm trying to sink the knife deeper? Just saying the conspiracy we all assume could be something very different.

someone please read this guys posting history, lol