Serena Williams: The Most Dominant Female Tennis Player Ever?

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Purexed

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With Serena capturing her 16th grand slam today, the question comes up from me about how she would have fared against the other legends in the female game. Whether you look at Graff, Seles, Navratilova, King, etc. I don't think any of them would have an answer to Serena's athleticism and competitive will. When the money is on the line, Serena performs, and most times, she utterly dominates in finals where the outcome is rarely in question.

Detractors will point to overall win-loss records and total grand slam victories, but I don't think that's the best measure of greatness. Looking at football, Emmitt Smith may have the most rushing yards and touchdowns, but people who watch the game wouldn't put him over Barry Sanders who is the greatest RB I've ever seen with my own eyes (And I'm a Cowboys fan).

What you think? Am I a prisoner of the moment, or is there something to this claim?
 
Poor Venus. She'll always be the lesser of the two
 
Women's tennis has been great since Wozniacki returned to irrelevance and Vika, Masha and Serena stepped up their game.
 
It's not directly comparable as it's wheelchair tennis but Esther Vergeer probably deserves to be mentioned as far as dominant female tennis players go.

Esther Mary Vergeer (born 18 July 1981 in Woerden) is a retired Dutch wheelchair tennis player. Combining singles and doubles, she has won 42 Grand Slams, 22 year-end championships and 7 Paralympics titles. Vergeer has been the world number one wheelchair tennis player since 1999. In singles, she was unbeaten since January 2003 and ended her career on a winning streak of 470 matches. She is often mentioned as the most dominant player in professional sports.

Over the course of her career Vergeer won 700 matches and lost just 25. Vergeer won 148 singles titles including four Paralympic Singles Gold medals, 21 Grand Slam titles and 14 NEC Wheelchair Tennis Masters. Vergeer spent 668 weeks as the World Number One, first claiming the position on 6 April 1999 and regaining it on the 2 October 2000 relinguishing it on 21 January 2013. Vergeer was the ITF World Champion for 13 years in a row. In doubles competitions Vergeer won 136 titles, 23 of which were won at the Grand Slams. Vergeer also has three Paralympic gold medals for the doubles and has been part of the winning World Team Cup side on 12 occasions.

Vergeer had been undefeated in women's singles matches for ten years, having lost on 30 January 2003 to Daniela di Toro. Over the next 10 years, Vergeer won 120 tournaments, 470 matches, beat 73 different opponents and did not lose a game on 95 occasions. Additionally, during the streak she lost only 18 sets and was taken to match point only once; against Korie Homan in the final of the 2008 Paralympic Games. Vergeer retired in February 2013.
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Sent said:
Serena is on another level. To even make it back here after surgeries and whatnot is a feat.
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PED's and HGH.

(older photo)
2005-01-25-inside-serena.jpg


(last few years)
serena.jpg

6a00e551db9e1a88340134852495b3970c-pi


If you think this is natural for a woman not using testosterone or HGH of some sort, I don't know what to tell you.

She is also beginning to get the distended stomach side effect which indicates past HGH use. HGH is used to recover from serious injuries (among other things).
 
Purexed said:
With Serena capturing her 16th grand slam today, the question comes up from me about how she would have fared against the other legends in the female game. Whether you look at Graff, Seles, Navratilova, King, etc. I don't think any of them would have an answer to Serena's athleticism and competitive will. When the money is on the line, Serena performs, and most times, she utterly dominates in finals where the outcome is rarely in question.

Detractors will point to overall win-loss records and total grand slam victories, but I don't think that's the best measure of greatness. Looking at football, Emmitt Smith may have the most rushing yards and touchdowns, but people who watch the game wouldn't put him over Barry Sanders who is the greatest RB I've ever seen with my own eyes (And I'm a Cowboys fan).

What you think? Am I a prisoner of the moment, or is there something to this claim?
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No opinion either way, but Football is a team sport and tennis is an individual one. I don't think the comparison there is all that great.
 
Why do people think the ladies side is so weak nowadays. I mean, I think I agree, but you hear even Navratilova mentioning all the time when she's commentating how the game is much more athletic now than it was when she was playing, and Serena is the queen of that type of play.

I don't think there's ever been a player on the ladies side that has combined power and athleticism with a real mental sharpness like Serena. There are ladies in the game who can hit the ball just as hard, but few that can do so with Serena's precision and variety.

Besides, honestly, Serena would have a LOT more slams under her belt if it weren't for those few years that she stopped taking the game seriously and started doing to socialite thing.
 
Graf was the best I've ever seen. I'll never forget her grand slam year in 1988. She could have won back to back slams but missed out on one title one year so ended up with 7 out of 8.
 
royalan said:
Why do people think the ladies side is so weak nowadays. I mean, I think I agree, but you hear even Navratilova mentioning all the time when she's commentating how the game is much more athletic now than it was when she was playing, and Serena is the queen of that type of play.

I don't think there's ever been a player on the ladies side that has combined power and athleticism with a real mental sharpness like Serena. The are ladies in the game who can hit the ball just as hard, but few that can do so with Serena's precision and variety.

Besides, honestly, Serena would have a LOT more slams under her belt if it weren't for those few years that she stopped taking the game seriously and started doing to socialite thing.
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Its weak because nobody else has the physique of bodybuilder
 
thats cause shes a MANBEAST (strength wise)
she could rip 99% of her competition apart

when someone like that tennis's barbiedolls like henin,clijsters,sharapova etc you know whats up
 
It kinda blows my mind that she's that dominant consider her physique. You'd think dat ass and thighs would be in the way, but nope. It just give her that much more power.

death by snu snu
 
I don't know if it's testosterone or HGH but she is physically different to all her competitors, minus her sister. I can't tell if the women's game will change to start valuing this intense strength or if it's an anomaly that will soon end. I'm hoping for the latter

Also comparing Stosur to Serena is ridiculous

IISANDERII said:
Graf was spectacularly fast so Serena's power would've been less of a factor.
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Still hard to break when you're returning a 120mph serve though
 
ATF487 said:
Also comparing Stosur to Serena is ridiculous
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How so?

Samantha Stosur is every bit as muscular as Serena, and a hell of a lot leaner.

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AlOTPPb.jpg
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Sure, when talking records the comparison is ridiculous. One's a legend and the other is just a good player. But this just goes to show that Serena's game isn't just all about power. There's a real intelligence in the way that she plays, and that's why she's so dominant.
 
ElTopo said:
Oh come on, that's the excuse that's always brought up when someone dominates a sport/division. If anything her consistency over an entire decade is remarkable.

Next thing people will tell me Federer is just a fluke.
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I disagree. It's clear that sports go through strong phases and weak phases. Sometimes you get a batch of really good players competing all at once, sometimes you don't. Now, I wouldn't say Federer was a fluke, that'd be downright stupid, but I would say it was comparatively easier for Federer to win Slams than it was, say, Djokovic. I mean, if you look at who Federer beat in his slam finals:

Philippoussis x1, Safin x1, Roddick x4, Hewitt x1, Agassi x1, Baghdatis x1, Nadal x2, Gonzalez x1, Djokovic x1, Murray x3, Soderling x1.

Philippoussis and Baghdatis are not top competition by any metric. Agassi was fairly ancient at this point. Both wins over Nadal were a) when Nadal was extremely young, and b) on Federer's favourite surface. Similarly, his win over Djokovic was when Djokovic was very young. Roddick is Federer's personal toy, etc, etc. Generally speaking, the standard of opponent he had to beat was lower than Djokovic or Nadal have to do today. Or even better, Murray: Murray has never ever played anyone worse than the 3rd seed in any Slam final. Federer has played a seed worse than the no.4 (made it no.4 because Fed usually was the no.1 seed) seed in 7 out of his 17 Slam finals, including both of his first 2.

So, while it's obvious Federer is an extremely good player, to say straight up "Federer has 17 Slams, x player only has y Slams, 17 > y, therefore Federer is better" totally ignores the fact that the quality of competition in Slams really does differ, and that's something you should take into account.
 
Manmademan said:
No opinion either way, but Football is a team sport and tennis is an individual one. I don't think the comparison there is all that great.
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Comparison is valid because I was talking about the skills and talent of two specific players. The fact it's a team sport only elevates Barry Sanders because he was always on terrible teams with horrible quarterbacks. What he was able to accomplish considering the mediocre nature of his teams is proof of his greatness.
 
Batigol said:
No tennis player, past or present can match her power.

Graf would get turned over
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It really wouldn't be that simple. Look at the Serena - Henin H2H. Yes, Serena leads it but Henin leads in slams 4-3 and those were always tight matches.

I wouldn't bet on anyone on a Graf - Serena matchup.
 
The steroids claim is a nonstarter for me. Serena and Venus have always had muscular builds. It's not like they were once built like sticks then, overnight, did a Barry Bonds with muscles sitting on top of muscles everywhere.
 
HGH
Twitch muscles
Black females have more testosterone than other females
slave breeding showing through
Steroids
She's a he

Did I cover all the major excuses?
 
Purexed said:
The steroids claim is a nonstarter for me. Serena and Venus have always had muscular builds. It's not like they were once built like sticks then, overnight, did a Barry Bonds with muscles sitting on top of muscles everywhere.
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So you haven't seen the before / after pics? OK.
 
Angelus Errare said:
HGH
Twitch muscles
Black females have more testosterone than other females
slave breeding showing through
Steroids
She's a he

Did I cover all the major excuses?
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Don't think anyone is making any excuses for anything. On the contrary everyone is saying she would dominate everyone as no other top player has ever had the build of a body-builder in womens tennis.
 
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