in theory. maybe later the difference is more pronounced.maybe at launch since multiplatform games are usually on current and next gen there wont be much difference.
TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
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in theory. maybe later the difference is more pronounced.maybe at launch since multiplatform games are usually on current and next gen there wont be much difference.
Whoa, wait so there's actually some validity to that rumor about a Xbone downclock? How would we even know it was dropped? Microsoft could just say that was the targeted spec from the start and since they never released those specs we'd be none the wiser. How would you even test for something like that? Benchmark the console?
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
I think this mess pretty much points to Microsoft not showing Xbone games running on final hardware specs at E3. It will all be a huge lie.
I agree with that, but the CPUs are the same so that probably won't happen most of the time.
Wouldn't put it past them.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'm sure the Xbox One will just upscale it and all games will just say "1080p*"
anexanhume
Member
That's how you know it's complete bullshit. Whoever made that claim has very little IC knowledge.
Just like all (almost all) games this gen did. It's sleazy, but technically true.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I am upset thinking about the implications of this for multi-platform games, does it mean that they'll target the lowest common denominator and the only games that will make the PS4 sing will be 1st party efforts?, does it mean that the scale of games will be reduced to accommodate for Xbox's tech specs?.
Target renders ahoy!
What an unmitigated disaster. Maybe I'm naive, but I think this is the most spectacular debacle in video game console history and the train wreck will be so high-profile, it may damage Microsoft irreparably in the consumer-electronics market.
I think there's potential here.
kingkaiser
Member
That's actually an interesting viewpoint, it also makes sense but not on every level.
What if MS was comparing their games sales with the number of achievements people get from these particular games too. What if they just found out that, let's just say Halo 3, has sold 8 mio. copies but 16 mio. different accounts got achievements from that game?
Well, from an developer standpoint I would ask myself "why the hell didnt we sell more units of our game, when there are clearly so many more people interested in our product?" "We lost 8 mio. sales goddamn!"
So, in the end you have a product that has the potential to sell 16 mio. units, but because of resales you just get the half of it.
If I were the developer I would try anything to at least take piece of the cake that is these additional 8 mio. sales.
IHaveCandy
Banned
You wont be able to tell the difference. Even with a 100MHz downclock, devs could just tweak the performance.well we could compare Mondays demonstrations on devkits with release versions?
Quadraphonic
Member
SHOCKING.
IHaveCandy
Banned
People are allowing the PS3/360 to have revisionist history. Developers have a history of taking advantage of better hardware. It is not always drastically different, but they often did use the advanced system better. The difference with the PS3/360 was that the PS3 just wasn't cost-effective to take advantage of it. It was easier to make it for 360 and port it to PS3 and fix any issues.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I think Digital Foundry should be up to task, their dissections will be glorious this coming generation.
I hope not, I'd rather get something new and juicy.
I'm not talking PS4 vs Xbone, rather Xbone @ 800MHz versus a potentially downclocked Xbone.
It cant all be people trading it in, can it? I mean different gamer tags on 360 at least, have separate achievements attached to them. Since I don't own a PS3, im not familliar with how trophies work across multiple accounts. Do these numbers take into account multiple users on a single console?
so why is this thread at 100 pages and still open.
if from 1.2tf to 1tf doesnt make a difference why spent money designing the console,just put a tegra4.....devs just tweak the performance.
anyway,we will see at release.
Maybe they just have knowledge about that fucking x-clamp
Talk about saving 50 cents for a much shorter lifespan. The fact that they still use it amaze me to no end.
Halo 5 meets Aliens Colonial Marines.
I guess it's entirely possible to know the final clockspeeds once the console is out? It can be measured right?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Steam is also take it or leave it. You can own a PC without Steam. Valve also puts themselves behind the "you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar" mantra, and their weaknesses and harsh edges are much fewer and less flagrant. It's why some people go out of their way to load their non-Steam-bought games in Steam.
This other business is all stick, no carrot. Changing goalposts about something that was already a relied upon system, whereas Steam came in and didn't infringe upon the status quo, it attracted people away from it.
It's the next step in the self-sabotaging that has possessed console manufacturers, publishers, and developers this gen, upgraded to new, more suicidal heights. Like watching a colleague drink themselves to death.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
About this, Dragon's Dogma sold 1M and Capcom made a healthy profit on it, they specifically mentioned it on their earnings release. And that's before DD
ark Arisen released.This whole 50M sales AAAAA+++++ Hollywood blockbuster or go home mentality is killing this hobby.
Because an already under-specced console (compared to competition) is getting even more lower specs. People are also worried about the reliability of launch units given the RROD fiasco.
They will no doubt analyze the shit out of the direct feeds from E3 and can compare to release. We still won't have numbers if MS doesn't reveal them though.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
You're going to be disappointed if you're expecting to see games go from 1080p down to 720p or from 60 frames to 30 because of a downclock. You need a massive downclock to see a framerate difference of 50%.
i didn't said that. less effects,less draw distance.stuff that's still obvious
but if the downclock happens the total difference can lead to big differences like the ones you described
If Thuway is right about 800-900GFLOPS being available for games, then 720p vs 1080p is a real possibility.
Oh they will but the time frame from now to launch could also see tweaks and what not to make up for that difference. I'm not saying the downclock will make no difference in the end, I'm saying that comparing visual quality from E3 to launch may not be the best evidence for people to draw the conclusion as "downclock".
I'm pretty sure once the Xbone gets into the hands of guys that can tear and hack the console to give us clock numbers.
We have the VGLeaks info, anything below 800MHz would be a downclock. It's not official ofcourse but anybody with half a brain and some objectivity will realize that.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Hear hear.
Xbox owner here.
I'm incredibly bummed at the perspective of losing my XBL friends list =(
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I'm talking about the difference between a X1 devkit and final hardware, not PS4 vs X1. You could see a theoretical gflop increase of 600 just by bumping the core clock of a gpu up by 75mhz. You'd hard pressed to notice a difference though. If there's a 720p vs 1080p difference between the X1 and PS4 versions of a game it was there from jump street and not because of a downclock.
What? More like 100. (115.2 to be exact)
You would have to increase the GPU clock by 390MHz to get a 600GFLOPS increase.
? can't you use the same account from 360 in xbox one? or is xbox one resetting such?
I think he's implying he won't be getting an Xbone.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
About this, Dragon's Dogma sold 1M and Capcom made a healthy profit on it, they specifically mentioned it on their earnings release. And that's before DD
This whole 50M sales AAAAA+++++ Hollywood blockbuster or go home mentality is killing this hobby.
Oh, that's about "on the disc DLC" yeah, Capcpom got reaaaaaaaaal cute with that, but it's another issue (or more accurately with me, their handling of it).
"Where did all the 360 fans go?"
"Look for torches and pitchforks, or people drowning their sorrows"
Trophies are via account. So you with your brother and sister could on one coppy achieve two set of trophies.
Reality is that most of gamers out there rarely share their games with family mambers. When family has kids often they have their own consoles and games because you know kids hate each other.
Still there are sets of trophies that were probably obtained by family.
This is where probably this whole thing lies and i saw that already when Jaffe talked about his reason and his ideas about games, ownership, loaning etc.
Devs/Pubs viepoint on that subject (loaning/trading) is same as pubs see piracy. They see only one side of picture which could be closed in numbers: lost sales, lost money.
From developer point of view i understand Jaffe that he created game and see people enjoying his game without paying him anything (after somebody loaned/traded-in game) his viewpoint is completely logical.
But he see one only one side of picture.
Loaning/trading market is self-working awareness engine which doesn't work in spotlight but its work is felt everywhere in industry.
Everything resolves around like all things money.
Each of us has different circumstances but we all can agree with have buildin limits how much we spend on different things. Games have their limit in our budget. For me it is 3-4 games monthly, someone else may buy only one new game only and there are people who don't buy games new they buy games only used.
Point of above is that everything is connected. If someone will buy new game and plan to trade it later that dude who don't buy new games will buy it. Thanks to this both of them will profit from it. One will get money to buy new game other will enjoy his game cheaply. From developer point of view shortsighted approach he didn't earn more than 60$ (original buyer) but real view of this case is that developer earned only 60$ and two people played his game, possibly enjoying it. Those two people tried his product and now those two people if they liked it they will talk with their friends and may possibly convince some of those friends to actually buy his game.
Gaming market is not furniture market. People love to talk about games and experiences with it. They love to play with each-other and this is very reason why places like NeoGaf are so vivid. I doubt there is furniture like Gaf somewhere out there.
People who buy games used are the same who provide funds to people who buy new games. If you shut down used games market not only your sold copies numbers will fall directly but your game will get flack indirectly because there will be simply much less people who will know about your game.
Publicity and awareness is one of the biggest thing pub/dev should compete for because it directly drives how much money they earn.
Minecraft without any campaign sold millions of copies with marketing budget of 0$ and just last year mojang earned $200mln. Both are very reason why F2P, MOBA, MMORPG risen and why Minecraft is so profitable for Mojang.
Do you wonder why Borderlands 1 was given in PS+ before Borderlands 2 premiere ? It was above. Thanks to it many people tried 1 and some of those people bought B2. And used games market works like just like that.
This was just one aspect of that problem. To look on other problem we need to look on it from broader perspective and ask why people play games in first place. It is because they want to spend some fun time. Gaming market belongs to entertainment industry which means there are other things, other than gaming. If some person enjoyment to spend money ratio will fall then some of those dudes simply will look for other things that will provide him enjoyment at lower cost. It may be TV, it may be drinking or other things who knows. Point is gaming market compete with other markets for people money. Last thing you would want to do is to make him count every dollar spend on his fun.
Next one on list is personally directed to Jaffe. Not because he was dick to used gaming market users but because he is developer which doesn't really fallow gaming trends aka his work is most of the time original, creative and sometimes innovative aka the good guy which is loved by people in places like here (beside random crapshots). If used market gaming will be gone then direct effect of that will be that people will have less money to buy games. Less money = less games bought = people will choose safest games to buy (aka best bang for buck). Which directly translate to sad Jaffe because his games are not mainstream ergo he will earn less money.
Those are only few problems that will rise with execution of used games market and loaning games and that not complete list of things involved.
Used games market/loaning is integral part of industry and very reason why this industry is in place where it is. Without it industry won't grow.
Thanks to used games market there are probably 3mln (assuming everybody loved it) people out there who are waiting for beyond two souls instead of 1,3-1,5.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
You are making the assumption those "lost sales" are from people who can pay 60 bucks for the game. Renting/trading/used/lending is a low cost access to the content, from which probably all of us have benefitted at some point, even these same developers.
Remember, Steam curbed piracy because it lowered the cost of games. If Microsoft had any intention to promote the same sales culture as Steam they would be shouting it from the rooftops. Instead, precedent tells us they mandate pricefloors to raise the cost of digital delivery content.
What Microsoft and its accomplices intend to do is not to increase the appeal and reach of console games, but rather extracting more revenue per user.
Well, in the case of Halo, I'd chalk that to local multiplayer.
Seems like they lowered the clock because of esram yield issues and are attempting to spin it in the most positive light.
This is correct. No word on a downclock.
Still a rumor, but the fact that even Gies has reported this makes it increasingly likely.
Yep, you just have to look at my 'gamerscore' to know how much time I invested into the 360.
A lot.
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