Nope. This is Mario now. Say goodbye to all the Sunshines and Galaxies and say hello to all the 3D Lands and New Super Mario Bros. It's pretty obvious this is what they want from the franchise. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine were missteps.
Super Mario 3D World for Wii U
- Thread starter Darklord
- Start date
Nope. This is Mario now. Say goodbye to all the Sunshines and Galaxies and say hello to all the 3D Lands and New Super Mario Bros. It's pretty obvious this is what they want from the franchise. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine were missteps.
Mario's been in a kind of holding pattern since SMG/SMG2. The whole throwback thing is fine for one game or so but do you need to have it basically be taking the stuff from the oldest games wholesale?
You know what I mean, enemies, concepts (right down to stuff like the ? block, the flagpole to end the level, the simple designs), level layout, they're drawn straight from the first few Mario games, just in 3D and HD. It's kind of weird.
Super Mario 64 was so damn ambitious, more ambitious, in fact, than they were required to be (it could have easily just been a Crash Bandicoot type linear platformer based directly on SMW). Sunshine, while keeping the structure from 64, was also ambitious and bold, as was Super Mario Galaxy.
That this new game is kind is backwards doesn't mean it will be a bad game at all, I'm sure it will be great fun in four player. It's just awfully...safe (there's that word again). Zelda is not like this, it might keep the same game structure, and some other things like standard items or musical cues, but it completely visually reinvents itself in every game and tries different approaches. DKCR was a real throwback because it was a revival of a long dead series, but even its (seemingly rushed out) sequel is trying all new things and greatly expanding and adding.
You know what I mean, enemies, concepts (right down to stuff like the ? block, the flagpole to end the level, the simple designs), level layout, they're drawn straight from the first few Mario games, just in 3D and HD. It's kind of weird.
Super Mario 64 was so damn ambitious, more ambitious, in fact, than they were required to be (it could have easily just been a Crash Bandicoot type linear platformer based directly on SMW). Sunshine, while keeping the structure from 64, was also ambitious and bold, as was Super Mario Galaxy.
That this new game is kind is backwards doesn't mean it will be a bad game at all, I'm sure it will be great fun in four player. It's just awfully...safe (there's that word again). Zelda is not like this, it might keep the same game structure, and some other things like standard items or musical cues, but it completely visually reinvents itself in every game and tries different approaches. DKCR was a real throwback because it was a revival of a long dead series, but even its (seemingly rushed out) sequel is trying all new things and greatly expanding and adding.
calc84maniac
Member
Super Mario 3D Land was only 8-directional? I never noticed, and I 100 percented that game. I thought for sure there were more directions available. Can't check now though cause I sold it (hey, Gamestop actually gave me like $25 for it)
Yes, but you wouldn't really notice it unless you just check the directions you can actually face when standing which is only 8 in 3D Land.
JetBlackPanda
Member
my only concern with this game is playing 4 players with wii remotes.
DAT D-PAD.
DAT D-PAD.
Midnight Moon
Banned
I don't get all the bitching this game receives. Even if it was meant for 3DS originally I'm glad they brought it to Wii U. Maybe in a few years you can see a proper 3D Mario game.
Gonna try it at Best Buy today hopefully
Gonna try it at Best Buy today hopefully
Microsoft thinks you are a bad person.
I don't get all the bitching this game receives. Even if it was meant for 3DS originally I'm glad they brought it to Wii U. Maybe in a few years you can see a proper 3D Mario game.
Gonna try it at Best Buy today hopefully
Please post detailed thoughts! Eager to hear GAF opinions.
evilromero
Member
I wouldn't call the most revolutionary and influential game of all time a "misstep." Nintendo is a different company now compared to the 90s when they were under Yamauchi, Arakawa and Lincoln. Then, there was more of an emphasis on bleeding-edge gameplay and graphics while still offering a fresh experience. It was the most fruitful time in the company's career, spawning a majority of the IPs that they still rely on today. In fact, the number of new IPs and even the evolution of their 80s IPs during the 90s dwarfs what they've been doing over the last ten years in terms of building their portfolio of great games. Do I think they will return to a massively ambitious Mario game? Yes, at some point. Because at some point, how many times can they recycle the Mario Bros. 3 template, 3D or otherwise?
you'd think it would be common sense at this point, but think of the % of the game we've been shown to what's bound to be in the final product.
how can anyone possibly think Nintendo won't deliver a completely satisfying and in all likelihood mind-bending final product?
it's 3D Mario. the team hinted they've been taking this direction for a long time. the team know how good the galaxy games were. there's no way this was a "quick" port over from the 3DS - does anyone here even know anything about game development? everyone on GAF needs to chill out for a minute.
how can anyone possibly think Nintendo won't deliver a completely satisfying and in all likelihood mind-bending final product?
it's 3D Mario. the team hinted they've been taking this direction for a long time. the team know how good the galaxy games were. there's no way this was a "quick" port over from the 3DS - does anyone here even know anything about game development? everyone on GAF needs to chill out for a minute.
I seem to recall 3D Land was also 8-way movement, even with the Circle Pad, yet it worked fine.
ProtomanNeo
Member
This game is just fine as launch tittle, and that's what is. Bundled with the WiiU for 249.99 when it relaunches this Christmas!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
If they can put out something that's on par with the Special Worlds from 3D Land, then it would be a very special game. That was such a joyous experience. Even though I was hoping for something more off the wall, I'm pretty excited to see what they do with this game.
I am one of the defenders of this game, but the worst aspect by far is the more open environments. Super Mario 64 and Sunshine are substantially worse platformers than Galaxy (heck, I don't even think 64 holds up today) due, in large part, to their lack of linearity. It's no wonder the secret levels of Sunshine are remembered most fondly among all of its offerings; platforming is about demanding mechanical execution and the satisfying purity of a perfect line run. Open platformers have always diluted that by watering down the "perfect line" in favor of emphasizing "exploration" and "immersion"- two aspects of gaming I've always found to be completely useless when it comes to actual good design. Challenge is lowered and the need to take advantage of the game's level design and execute your moves with better timing is played down in comparison to more focused titles. No, while I don't like 3d land's more open areas, it's certainly preferable to a modern successor to 64. The idea that more open games are deeper and better and linear games are somehow not is completely ludicrous and doesn't hold up to any serious gameplay evaluation.
I feel better about this game after watching the floor gameplay, it looks like a ton of fun.
The only thing that's still bothering me is the one constrained view around one player. Why not put one view on the gamepad and one on the TV so the different players can run around, maybe not all over the stage, but within a wider area instead of being dragged along? Maybe it's me but I really liked the way the LEGO games did split screen.
The only thing that's still bothering me is the one constrained view around one player. Why not put one view on the gamepad and one on the TV so the different players can run around, maybe not all over the stage, but within a wider area instead of being dragged along? Maybe it's me but I really liked the way the LEGO games did split screen.
Solid SOAP
Member
Perhaps I just have different expectations from Nintendo now, but the announcement of this game floored me. Since I read that Galaxy interview about multiple players at once, I've been wanting a simultaneous coop 3D Mario, and I am so happy Nintendo delivered. Most of my gaming as of late has been done with friends, and Nintendo know damn well how to create a solid multiplayer experience, especially their EAD team. No, this doesn't look anywhere as ambitious as the Galaxy games or how Super Mario 64 was at the time of its release, but it looks fun as hell, and that's all that matters to me. It truly looks like 2D Mario in a 3D space, with the benefit of being able to play with friends and with many callbacks to Super Mario World, I am pumped.
Also, the music is rather good, and I've taken a liking to the more simplistic look Mario has attained recently.
Also, the music is rather good, and I've taken a liking to the more simplistic look Mario has attained recently.
If Super Mario 64 was a misstep, why bother to make a DS version then?
Sunshine was too ambitious, but 64 was indisputably a crazy good game for its time.
They know what they're doing?
Yeah....
...I mean these guys designed a controller to control Mario in 3D space with full analogue control back in the mid-90's...
...But now you can control him with D-pad in a 3D space....
It definitely looks more appealing than other 3D Mario I've played.
You aren't limited to the D-Pad...
You can use an analog stick...
If they don't give any other controller options for multiplayer in the final product, then you have a point.
PreyingShark
Member
I love Super Mario 3D Land so I'm looking forward to this. I actually probably wouldn't have bought a more traditional 3D Mario game because I've always had trouble getting into those.
They realized full analogue control was a misstep and had to release it with 8 way d-pad controls. The way it should have been. Like 3D Land HD...err I mean 3D World.
(I am being sarcastic).
Spieler Eins
Member
No online?
The Wii Remote D-Pad support confirms it's 8 way.
The analogue stick won't be giving 360 controls, you know, what they pioneered with Mario 64 in 1996.
tiggerkiddo
Member
The Wii Remote D-Pad doesn't confirm it is 8-directional movement. 3D Land being 8-directional is what confirms it since this game play in a similar style.
3D Land played perfectly fine. You either didn't care there was a run button or you didn't like it.
Porcile
Member
Some food for thought, for people who seem a dejected about this game.
Mario Kart 8 looks a lot like Nintendo Land. It's speculation on my part, but it's probably the same engine, while 3D World uses some kind upgraded 3DS engine. Which is interesting because it might mean EAD2's next game will probably be similarly large in scale to MK8. From what I can tell, their next project hasnt been revealed yet?
Some extremer speculation makes me think the next mainline Mario game might be made by EAD2. While EAD Tokyo goes and does something cross-platform for 3DS/Wii U. Judging by Nintendo's reliance on established franchises, we might be seeing another 3D Mario sooner than expected... Apologies if I've got my EAD's mixed up.
It seems logical in my head. Until then, I'm going to enjoy the shit out of co-op 3D World!
Mario Kart 8 looks a lot like Nintendo Land. It's speculation on my part, but it's probably the same engine, while 3D World uses some kind upgraded 3DS engine. Which is interesting because it might mean EAD2's next game will probably be similarly large in scale to MK8. From what I can tell, their next project hasnt been revealed yet?
Some extremer speculation makes me think the next mainline Mario game might be made by EAD2. While EAD Tokyo goes and does something cross-platform for 3DS/Wii U. Judging by Nintendo's reliance on established franchises, we might be seeing another 3D Mario sooner than expected... Apologies if I've got my EAD's mixed up.
It seems logical in my head. Until then, I'm going to enjoy the shit out of co-op 3D World!
I have not interest on "traditional" Mario games anymore, but if they put a demo (most certainly not) on the eShop, I'll give a shot.
What I found funny about this reveal, is how just last week there was a thread (again) about how Nintendo should just drop its hardware and go third party, and how much they will benefit from putting their games on "capable hardware". Just imagine the reactions if this were the first title on a non-proprietary hardware! The cry would be "go back to your own hardware then!".
What I found funny about this reveal, is how just last week there was a thread (again) about how Nintendo should just drop its hardware and go third party, and how much they will benefit from putting their games on "capable hardware". Just imagine the reactions if this were the first title on a non-proprietary hardware! The cry would be "go back to your own hardware then!".
I get the feeling that most people on these boards don't play any of the Marios primarily through multiplayer. Which is a shame, multi-Mario is a game changer (for me at least). And I've been waiting to play a (good) multiplayer 3d platformer for ages. Sounds like a good enough reason to make a game to me.
HigherLevel
Member
Is the multiplayer online, or just local?
Don't worry, in a few months the E3-rage syndrome will have settled down and then people will go back to looking forward to playing a new 3D Mario game. You'd think a studio like EAD Tokyo would have earned a bit of respect after their many brilliant games but I guess a certain kind of person will never be satisfied with what they show.
You do have it confused. EAD Tokyo consists of two teams. Pretty much everyone that worked on Galaxy when they were at EAD1 moved to EAD2 for Galaxy 2. EAD1 seems to be working on Flipnote Studio and some other stuff. Not sure if they are working on a game. EAD2 are the ones making this game.
Besides Mario Kart, Nintendo usually ignores online in their games. So it'll probably be local only play.
That's how it should be. A game like this would not work online, certainly not with 4 players.
Responsiveness is everything in Mario, they aren't going to compromise that.
I hope to god we're getting a far more ambitious 3D Mario from the other Tokyo team. I bought a Wii U for the next big leap in Mario platforming, not a multiplayer version of a 3DS game that doesn't even have online. Not saying I want Galaxy 3, but I want something in the vein of how Galaxy wow'd me all those years ago.
I am super hyped for this game and want to see what they can do. But I do think there are people who I feel can be genuinely disappointed due to the fact they didn't do something absolutely new. I can see why they would be disappointed with this announcement and even if they announced Galaxy 3, Sunshine 2, or 64-2 they would be disappointed.
I don't think a 3D Mario games requires that kind of precision. 2D Mario and platformers in general do require that kind of precision, but since this is a 3D Mario game I would expect that online multiplayer should be possible.
Porcile
Member
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I meant the team which is headed by Eguchi. I know they haven't mad a Mario-like game, but it makes sense for them to working on another 3D game using the Nintendo Land engine and I don't see Animal Crossing being made for Wii U. Who knows.
Spieler Eins
Member
On one hand I'd want a proper Mario, but it would also be pathetic if they split the mainline Mario cashcow even more (2D, 3D, pseudo mixtures like this). So I'd rather have Koizumi direct something new, like Jungle Beat back in the day. Although, who am I kidding, after yesterdays blamage and seeing how clueless and desperate Iwata is, we gonna get infinite Mario instead :/
Well Nintendo don't agree. Otherwise these games would have online.
I didn't like it, though I gave it a shot as I could accept the limited movement given the slide pad and the fact that it's a handheld title.
For a Mario game which has the gamepad as the primary controller, 8 way movement with a run button is a joke.
metalslimer
Member
Please. It doesn't have online because they need to get the game out this year and don't want to invest significant resources to it. Next you're going to tell me Nintendoland doesn't have online because it would compromises the games because of how much precisions is needed. Let's just can online in every game. Fighting developers must be geniuses to have crafted such wizardry.
Isn't that Indie game 'A Hat in Time' have a stretch goal for online multiplayer? It definitely should be possible for 3D platformers.
No, I don't think that. Nintendo isn't known for implementing online in games when they can.
8-directional movement is not even noticeable in 3D Land. You can easily confuse it with full 360 degree movement.
I'm indifferent about the run button. I think Mario can work with a run button and without one.
I guess this game isn't at all for you.
I would say they didn't want to put online for NintendoLand because they wanted to highlight asymmetric gameplay which isn't at all special online because it just means 1 player is doing something different than the other players which is quite the norm for online multiplayer.
No, I don't think that. Nintendo isn't known for implementing online in games when they can.
8-directional movement is not even noticeable in 3D Land. You can easily confuse it with full 360 degree movement.
I'm indifferent about the run button. I think Mario can work with a run button and without one.
I guess this game isn't at all for you.
I would say they didn't want to put online for NintendoLand because they wanted to highlight asymmetric gameplay which isn't at all special online because it just means 1 player is doing something different than the other players which is quite the norm for online multiplayer.