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[Boss Doggie]

Personally I am hoping that the clones are finally tossed out the window for the new Smash. I'll gladly take even one brand new character over Falco, Toon Link, and Wolf getting back in. Some might argue that they could just de-clone them with new moves, but if they're going to go to that much trouble they might as well just add someone who hasn't already been in the series. The only one I would see as the exception would be Ganondorf, who is important enough to Zelda to be worth giving a long-deserved overhaul.

But a lot of mainstays were former clones!

Besides, Wolf's important enough anyway

Spoiler

for me

So is he the one who fills them up with lava? And where does he get all that lava? How does he transport it?!

Mushroom kingdom architects aren't the smartest bunch in land placement.

 

[Ryce]

With a new Final Smash and at least one new Special Move, nobody would even remotely consider Wolf a clone.

 

[fisheyes]

someone came up with list.

What if Megaman's Final Smash is something to do with the Yellow Devil, hence the end of the trailer? Its a long shot, but that shot was obviously there to foreshadow something

Spoiler

I think its a bigger boss battle emphasis, with my ideal scenario being the ability for a Gamepad toting 5th player to control boss characters, but whatever

 

[Mega Spooky]

Sonic is basically a 2nd party character at this point, with the licensing agreement they have with him, so he's more than likely a shoe-in, and wouldn't take up a 3rd party "slot".

That said, I'd love to see a Final Fantasy character (job) like Black Mage or something in this game. They had that nice crossover basketball game on the DS a while back, so they seem to be open to lending characters out.

 

[Zoramon089]

What if Megaman's Final Smash is something to do with the Yellow Devil, hence the end of the trailer? Its a long shot, but that shot was obviously there to foreshadow something

Spoiler

I think its a bigger boss battle emphasis, with my ideal scenario being the ability for a Gamepad toting 5th player to control boss characters, but whatever

Yellow Devil means a new Subspace Emissary. Search your fears. You know it to be true

 

[Linkhero1]

Will riot if no Captain Falcon

DDD will most likely return as will Olimar so I'm not worried about them. As others have pointed out earlier on G&W too, so all my mains will end up in the game

The Dojo is going to kill me though.

 

[Rayis]

I still don't get how the 3DS version is going to limit the amount of characters, I mean, if the GameCube could do it, why can't the 3DS?

 

[DaBoss]

Yellow Devil means a new Subspace Emissary. Search your fears. You know it to be true

I'm personally hoping for Boss Battles to return. Just don't put Ridley as a boss, but as a playable character and we're good.

I still don't get how the 3DS version is going to limit the amount of characters, I mean, if the GameCube could do it, why can't the 3DS?

It doesn't sound like he is saying it will limit the amount of characters, but what can be done with specific characters. 3DS carts can go up to 8GB, it doesn't sound like a size limitation.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

But a lot of mainstays were former clones!

Besides, Wolf's important enough anyway

Spoiler

for me

Mushroom kingdom architects aren't the smartest bunch in land placement.

Wolf is less of a clone than Luigi... he seems more derivative of Fox's moves, not ported wholesale with minor stat tweaks.

Falco is a vet of two games now (and a popular vet). I'd be incredibly surprised if he didn't return. Very surprised.

 

[Tom_Cody]

I wonder if what kind of style will we will receive the news?

Super Smash Bros Brawl Dojo style or Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 style?

SSBB Dojo - daily update (5 times per week)
UMVC3 - trailer, news, etc once per month or two

The game is still a ways off. I'm sure Nintendo would prefer to not distract from their current releases. As it is Smash Bros kind of overshadowed everything else Nintendo discussed at this E3.

It looks like we are going to get picture updates on Miiverse for now. They will probably trickle out big announcements (new characters/features) over the next 6-12 months to keep hype going and then start up the Dojo once they announce a formal release date.

 

[fisheyes]

Yellow Devil means a new Subspace Emissary. Search your fears. You know it to be true

At this stage, this mythical Subspace has 1 existing video game character and no made up just for Smash ones.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think Yellow Devil is just a stage hazard

He'll fall brick by brick on to people

 

[Linkhero1]

Wolf's more likely to leave the series because he isn't well known as Fox or Falco. He isn't a main in any game and appears a few times in Star Fox 64 DS. And like balladofwindfishes said Fox and Falco have been in the game way longer so it's easier to eliminate Wolf. They should put Krystal in. Rawr

 

[TreIII]

With a new Final Smash and at least one new Special Move, nobody would even remotely consider Wolf a clone.

The whole "clone" issue is overblown anyway.

And besides, by the time of Brawl, most of the former clones were different enough that you might as well tried comparing Mario & Luigi or Kirby & Jigglypuff.

EDIT:

Wolf's more likely to leave the series because he isn't well known as Fox or Falco. He isn't a main in any game and appears a few times in Star Fox 64 DS. And like balladofwindfishes said Fox and Falco have been in the game way longer so it's easier to eliminate Wolf. They should put Krystal in. Rawr

And also Assault and Command.

Furthermore, Sakurai said that he's wanted to include Wolf for awhile (see: Wolf's appearance in the Melee intro for a hint of this). But it was just that time ran out, so he wasn't able to realize such a thing until Brawl.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Heh, people defend Wolf way too vehemently for what he is...

 

[Revven]

At this stage, this mythical Subspace has 1 existing video game character and no made up just for Smash ones.

Well... Subspace did have Nintendo bosses in it so... don't get your hopes up yet. :x

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

On the pokemon show that airs on saturdays in japan, did they ever announce characters for melee/brawl?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Toon Link was really the only Melee style clone in Brawl, everyone else had minor to major differences in playstyle, visuals or abilities. I'm pretty sure Toon Link was added way late in development, even later than Sonic or Wolf, probably the last character added.

Landmaster for Wolf was super lazy though, that needs to change.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Will riot if no Captain Falcon

Captain Falcon has been there since before Smash was Smash. 99.9% sure he will never be taken out.

 

[Linkhero1]

And also Assault and Command.

I was talking about the most recent games. I didn't play Command. Assault was a while ago so I doubt people remember much

Furthermore, Sakurai said that he's wanted to include Wolf for awhile (see: Wolf's appearance in the Melee intro for a hint of this). But it was just that time ran out, so he wasn't able to realize such a thing until Brawl.

True, but if he's looking to include more unique characters then Wolf can easily go. I don't mind seeing him stay considering they can remove a bunch of other characters like Toon Link and Lucas.

Captain Falcon has been there since before Smash was Smash. 99.9% sure he will never be taken out.

In this world, nothing is guaranteed

 

[RM8]

I think Yellow Devil is just a stage hazard

He'll fall brick by brick on to people

"Non-legal" stage confirmed

 

[Ezalc]

What? You literally accused Sakurai of laziness because instead of doing less, he did more in a different way. It's a ridiculous thing to complain about because you're basically making a criticism that applies to most fighting games. Adurr, Ken's a clone, how lame! Adurr, Scorpion is just a palette swap! No shit. It's a genre staple to reuse assets to make more content. In this case, it was a matter of the development team, in Melee, having only enough time to do some quick things. So, they chose to do clones. You're basically upset that they did that instead of "sitting on their hands until the game left for retailers". I for one will not get mad at Sakurai for doing something instead of nothing. I will revel in the fact that I got my Young Link in Melee, when I didn't like to play Link in Melee. Or that I got to play as Falco, who I prefer significantly over Fox. Or that I got Wolf, who is definitely "up there" for my favourite characters to play in Brawl.

Fact is, the list of people who will notice and care about clones "tarnishing" anything comprises you and some other people who complain about trivial things. Certainly not the fighting game community who sees this in all fighting games; certainly not consumers who look at "more" and don't grumble about how they would rather have less.

First off, he did more in an extremely half assed way. If you can't bother to do a character right then don't bother at all. Second, I never liked the fact that Ken is basically a clone of Ryu and always thought that was bullshit as well. It doesn't help the fact that Capcom later went on to add a thousand more shotos into the goddamn game as well. Third, Scorpion and Sub-Zero only look alike their moves are completely different so this example doesn't even apply. If this was the case in Brawl I would be completely fine with it since we would be getting characters with actual unique movesets. Fourth, the team wouldn't be doing nothing, they would use whatever wasted time they used in making the clones and putting that to use into making something actually useful or meaningful or improving something else like the online for example. The way they handle their time is up to them, I just wish that making clones wasn't one of the ways they do so. Finally, I was never talking about the FGC since like you said this is so prevalent and you lot are the only ones who actually care about the properties of each characters moves and what not because of combos and etc. People who don't care about that, would see oh great more characters, play with them for a little bit and because they don't care about such intricacies easily be annoyed at the fact that there are a bunch of same characters.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Speaking of "non-legal" stages, I hope something's done about how, in online play, only every sixth round was not played on Final Destination.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Someone mentioning Yoshi's design up there reminds me, I don't much like that stubby newt like Yoshi that populates his games these days including Brawl, I miss Melee's more dino like look but I figure that we wont be heading back to that design any time soon.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Alright, it's speculation time!

If we are getting 49 characters slots and 1 random slot, then I would set up those characters as starter characters to build up better surprise characters. I'm going to filling out characters for fun but for argument reason, you can replaced those names with Newcomer?

Point of this speculation is that I hope that Sakurai would go with this pattern. This pattern should provide the rollar coaster of emotions for many smashers.

For example, it will raise some kind of fear for players that might think their main characters would be gone. Also it could go other way for people who would be excited to see R.O.B being gone until they personally unlocked the character. They would throw a huge fit of rages. People would be pleased and surprised by more newcomers characters being secret characters, unlike Brawl.


49 characters slots = between 52 to 54 characters (including party characters, transforming characters, etc)


Starter Characters

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Princess Peach
4. Bowser
5. Donkney Kong
6. Diddy Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Wario
9. Link
10. Zelda
    Sheik
11. Toon Link
12. Samus
    Zero Suit Samus
13. Ice Climbers
14. Kirby
15. Metaknight
16. King Dedede
17. Olimar
18. Fox
19. Cap Falcon
20. Pikachu
21. Pokemon Trainer
    Squirtle
    Ivysaur
    Charizard
22. Lucario
23. Marth
24. Ike
25. Ness
26. Mr. Game and Watch
27. Villager
28. Wii Fit Girl
29. Little Mac (rumored)
30. Mii (rumored)
31. Takamaru (Newcomer Slot)
32. Isaac (Newcomer Slot
33. King K Rool (Newcomer Slot)
34. Hades (Newcomer Slot)
35. Random
    
    Secret Characters
36. R.O.B.
37. Dixie Kong (Newcomer Slot)
38. Wolf
39. Mega Man
40. Lucas
41. Roy (Newcomer Slot)
42. Ganondorf
43. Palutena (Newcomer Slot)
44. Sonic
45. Mewtwo (Newcomer Slot)
46. Duck Hunt Dog (Newcomer Slot)
47. Snake
48. Ridley (Newcomer Slot)
49. Pac-Man (rumored)
50. Shulk (Newcomer Slot)
    

 

[TreIII]

I was talking about the most recent games. I didn't play Command. Assault was a while ago so I doubt people remember much

Command was the most recent game (sad to say), prior to SF64-3DS. It's also the main source of the "artstyle" used for the StarFox characters that appeared in Brawl.

I mean, if we're going to assume like people have short-term memories, it would be easier to attribute that much to the likes of Dinosaur Planet and Assault than anything else.

True, but if he's looking to include more unique characters then Wolf can easily go. I don't mind seeing him stay considering they can remove a bunch of other characters like Toon Link and Lucas.

Toon Link I can agree on, since I easily could see him making way for LTTP/LBW as the new "kid link". But Lucas? The character that hails from the most recent (and likely last) Mother game? *C'mon_son.gif*

 

[Mr Swine]

I could definitely see Sonic and Mega Man being the only two third party characters. Both really fit and make sense too, more than any other third party characters.

Should have Dr Eggman and Dr Wiley as villains then to balance out the good guys

 

[Bisnic]

Really? I will give it a shot.

Yeah, I don't know if its my computer or Youtube, but the trailers are blurry on my PC, even if I set them to 720p(I could barely see what was happening in the Bayonetta 2 trailer during combat gameplay for example), while on the Wii U eshop, the trailers are in non-blurry HD, like it should be.


Am I the only one who think Bomberman would be another nice 3rd party character? Sure, most of his attacks would be bombs, but whatever.

 

[Berordn]

I think Yellow Devil is just a stage hazard

He'll fall brick by brick on to people

My guess is Wily Fortress is like Saffron City, where bosses like the Yellow Devil or that dragon from MM2 pop in from time to time to wreck stuff.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The PlayStation Smash clone allows for turning off stage hazards. Hopefully Sakurai saw that game...?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I was talking about the most recent games. I didn't play Command. Assault was a while ago so I doubt people remember much

Well 3D is 64 remade, and I'm fairly certain Wolf's prominent there.

First off, he did more in an extremely half assed way. If you can't bother to do a character right then don't bother at all. Second, I never liked the fact that Ken is basically a clone of Ryu and always thought that was bullshit as well. It doesn't help the fact that Capcom later went on to add a thousand more shotos into the goddamn game as well. Third, Scorpion and Sub-Zero only look alike their moves are completely different so this example doesn't even apply. If this was the case in Brawl I would be completely fine with it since we would be getting characters with actual unique movesets. Fourth, the team wouldn't be doing nothing, they would use whatever wasted time they used in making the clones and putting that to use into making something actually useful or meaningful or improving something else like the online for example. The way they handle their time is up to them, I just wish that making clones wasn't one of the ways they do so. Finally, I was never talking about the FGC since like you said this is so prevalent and you lot are the only ones who actually care about the properties of each characters moves and what not because of combos and etc. People who don't care about that, would see oh great more characters, play with them for a little bit and because they don't care about such intricacies easily be annoyed at the fact that there are a bunch of same characters.

Your complaint would've made more sense if it still holds water in modern iterations.

Sakura, Ryu, Ken and Akuma all play differently as far as Alpha where they are all together. Hell, Morrigan, Demitri, Lilith, Hideo, Batsu, and Shoma all play differently despite all having the same properties of a shotoclone. Following similar principles doesn't imply that they are half assed or anything at all.

The PlayStation Smash clone allows for turning off stage hazards. Hopefully Sakurai saw that game...?

Hopefully.

With that said, Smash hazards aren't as terrible as PSA's, and Smash has plenty of neutral stages.

 

[IntelliHeath]

The game is still a ways off. I'm sure Nintendo would prefer to not distract from their current releases. As it is Smash Bros kind of overshadowed everything else Nintendo discussed at this E3.

It looks like we are going to get picture updates on Miiverse for now. They will probably trickle out big announcements (new characters/features) over the next 6-12 months to keep hype going and then start up the Dojo once they announce a formal release date.

Yeah, that's right. It's slated for 2014 so it need like 6-9 months of hypeness so I would guess that it wouldn't start until very early 2014 like Jan/Feb.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I still don't get how the 3DS version is going to limit the amount of characters, I mean, if the GameCube could do it, why can't the 3DS?

Pessimism.

 

[georly]

Everyone keeps asking about megaman's moves, so I made some crappy MS paint images to get the point across:

A moves

B Moves

Air Moves (up air is seen only in the bildorff vs sakurai fight and looks like air man's attack)

Smash Attacks

Grab/Final Smash

Final Smash is just a guess, but the yellow devil could come down, do his teleport cycle one/twice and hit everyone who can't dodge properly. It could also be a stage hazard.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I wonder if this will be the first Smash without the Great Fox as a level. Especially if they follow Brawl's precedent of not going back more than 1 game for retro levels.

Smash without a Great Fox level wouldn't feel right though...

 

[Boss Doggie]

So Megs would be like the first "ranged" normal attacker huh?

I wonder if this will be the first Smash without the Great Fox as a level. Especially if they follow Brawl's precedent of not going back more than 1 game for retro levels.

Smash without a Great Fox level wouldn't feel right though...

What if the new SF stage is the Great Fox?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Everyone keeps asking about megaman's moves, so I made some crappy MS paint images to get the point across:

A moves



B Moves



Air Moves (up air is seen only in the bildorff vs sakurai fight and looks like air man's attack)



Smash Attacks



Grab/Final Smash



Final Smash is just a guess, but the yellow devil could come down, do his teleport cycle one/twice and hit everyone who can't dodge properly. It could also be a stage hazard.

Fantastic Job!

 

[Akira_83]

really hope the 3ds version isnt gimped to hell as i want it on the go

say what you want about PSABR but the Vita port is amazing and stands neck and neck with the PS3 version

im concerned when he said the stages would be from portable games and wiiu from console ones... im just worried were getting less stages and fighters and lower content in general...

 

[IntelliHeath]

I'm going to bump this post again.

Alright, it's speculation time!

If we are getting 49 characters slots and 1 random slot, then I would set up those characters as starter characters to build up better surprise characters. I'm going to filling out characters for fun but for argument reason, you can replaced those names with Newcomer?

Point of this speculation is that I hope that Sakurai would go with this pattern. This pattern should provide the rollar coaster of emotions for many smashers.

For example, it will raise some kind of fear for players that might think their main characters would be gone. Also it could go other way for people who would be excited to see R.O.B being gone until they personally unlocked the character. They would throw a huge fit of rages. People would be pleased and surprised by more newcomers characters being secret characters, unlike Brawl.


49 characters slots = between 52 to 54 characters (including party characters, transforming characters, etc)


Starter Characters

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Princess Peach
4. Bowser
5. Donkney Kong
6. Diddy Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Wario
9. Link
10. Zelda
    Sheik
11. Toon Link
12. Samus
    Zero Suit Samus
13. Ice Climbers
14. Kirby
15. Metaknight
16. King Dedede
17. Olimar
18. Fox
19. Cap Falcon
20. Pikachu
21. Pokemon Trainer
    Squirtle
    Ivysaur
    Charizard
22. Lucario
23. Marth
24. Ike
25. Ness
26. Mr. Game and Watch
27. Villager
28. Wii Fit Girl
29. Little Mac (rumored)
30. Mii (rumored)
31. Takamaru (Newcomer Slot)
32. Isaac (Newcomer Slot
33. King K Rool (Newcomer Slot)
34. Hades (Newcomer Slot)
35. Random
    
    Secret Characters
36. R.O.B.
37. Dixie Kong (Newcomer Slot)
38. Wolf
39. Mega Man
40. Lucas
41. Roy (Newcomer Slot)
42. Ganondorf
43. Palutena (Newcomer Slot)
44. Sonic
45. Mewtwo (Newcomer Slot)
46. Duck Hunt Dog (Newcomer Slot)
47. Snake
48. Ridley (Newcomer Slot)
49. Pac-Man (rumored)
50. Shulk (Newcomer Slot)
    

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Ah you again.

You forget that they used costume change on Wario. Essentially he is saying that customization akin to Tekken is something he won't do. He seems to be fine with costumes that are part of the character's repertoire (like say, giving Mario a doctor coat). And I fully agree with that, if only to prevent shit like "let's turn characters into alt costumes". Yeah, because seeing Zero using X skin as a alt costume was pretty fun and logical, right?

Ah a wild fury appears.

I'm not sure how having choice in character costumes in a huge fan service game like this is anything but a good thing

 

[Linkhero1]

Command was the most recent game (sad to say), prior to SF64-3DS. It's also the main source of the "artstyle" used for the StarFox characters that appeared in Brawl.

I mean, if we're going to assume like people have short-term memories, it would be easier to attribute that much to the likes of Dinosaur Planet and Assault than anything else.

Probably. I didn't play Command so I wouldn't know how big of a role Wolf had in the game.

Edit: This had me thinking. If SSB U is coming out way later down the line then it's possible for a new Star Fox game between now and SSB U release. :0

Well 3D is 64 remade, and I'm fairly certain Wolf's prominent there.

I don't recall but I remember you encounter him a handful of times in Star Fox 64. He did have a last name in it too! I guess he might end up staying, but we'll see. I just see him as someone easier to replace than a majority of the characters in the game.

 

[HerbertFish]

Go ahead and cut them Sakurai:

Toon Link- Redundant. No need for a second Link anymore.
Wolf- Meh character.
Lucario- RIP my main, but replace it with a new 'mon if need be.
Snake- He would be great if he actually appeared on a Nintendo console once in awhile.


and just fully merge ZSS and Samus.

 

[fisheyes]

Yeah, that's right. It's slated for 2014 so it need like 6-9 months of hypeness so I would guess that it wouldn't start until very early 2014 like Jan/Feb.

I expect a few newcomers, and maybe a trailer or two showing off a few veterans, in the next 12 months, randomly 'distributed' throughout various Nintendo directs, shows, presentations and the like. A character reveal trailer at TGS, Wonder Red appearing in a trailer at the end of the Wonderful 101 Direct, etc. Just enough to keep the game in the back of people's minds, without overshadowing what they have coming sooner. Then at E3 next year, they'll announce the return of the dojo, and the floodgates will open. I don't think they'll want to run the Dojo for too long and ruin every secret like Brawl's threatened to do.

 

[DaBoss]

That seems like a lot of characters to start off with. I'm gonna go with 28-30 being there from the start.

Brawl: 22

Melee: 14

 

[Troubled Bat]

I just realized.. What stages would we see returning?

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Go ahead and cut them Sakurai:

Toon Link- Redundant. No need for a second Link anymore.
Wolf- Meh character.
Lucario- RIP my main, but replace it with a new 'mon if need be.
Snake- He would be great if he actually appeared on a Nintendo console once in awhile.


and just fully merge ZSS and Samus.

But Toon link is amazing!

 

[Lunar15]

Go ahead and cut them Sakurai:

Toon Link- Redundant. No need for a second Link anymore.
Wolf- Meh character.
Lucario- RIP my main, but replace it with a new 'mon if need be.
Snake- He would be great if he actually appeared on a Nintendo console once in awhile.


and just fully merge ZSS and Samus.

Fully merge? ZSS was her own character. My main, in fact. But hey, I don't really care if anything gets cut in this game, I'm pretty much down for whatever sakurai's team wants to do.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

I just realized.. What stages would we see returning?

I have a feeling Final Destination will be there.

 

[EBCubs03]

First off, he did more in an extremely half assed way. If you can't bother to do a character right then don't bother at all. Second, I never liked the fact that Ken is basically a clone of Ryu and always thought that was bullshit as well. It doesn't help the fact that Capcom later went on to add a thousand more shotos into the goddamn game as well. Third, Scorpion and Sub-Zero only look alike their moves are completely different so this example doesn't even apply. If this was the case in Brawl I would be completely fine with it since we would be getting characters with actual unique movesets. Fourth, the team wouldn't be doing nothing, they would use whatever wasted time they used in making the clones and putting that to use into making something actually useful or meaningful or improving something else like the online for example. The way they handle their time is up to them, I just wish that making clones wasn't one of the ways they do so. Finally, I was never talking about the FGC since like you said this is so prevalent and you lot are the only ones who actually care about the properties of each characters moves and what not because of combos and etc. People who don't care about that, would see oh great more characters, play with them for a little bit and because they don't care about such intricacies easily be annoyed at the fact that there are a bunch of same characters.

Any good experienced player will tell you that there are no clones in any smash bros game and that they all play differently

I think you need to get real

 

[TrueBlue]

Yellow Devil means a new Subspace Emissary. Search your fears. You know it to be true

I want a new a story mode. However couldn't the Yellow Devil simply be a part of the stage? Rather like that Cerberus think in Brawl's Porky City?