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[FluxWaveZ]

Valve also has a nearly limitless platform to produce a F2P product on. When your market is the Wii U install base it's not quite the same potential userbase to absorb development costs like Dota 2 can.

That's right, the PC as a platform plus a lot of the content being created by Dota 2's userbase would actually make this model fall flatter than I had initially thought for the Wii U and Smash Bros.

Ah well, I wouldn't say I'd actually want this model for SSB but I think if done right it could be really successful.

 

[Kurtofan]

I hope Kirby gets a stage from Yarn and from Return to Dreamland!

 

[DigitalOp]

I need fully functional online match customization.

Public Match

>Free For All
>2v2
Stock Toggle : 3 or 5
Time Match: 5 Mins or 7 Mins
Items or No Items
Stage Voting with random roulette (IE Mario Kart Wii)
Match Search function to find the games you want.
Rival System

Private Match

All options from local available
Specials : Stamina, Sudden Death, Coin Match


Do. Not. Fail. Me. Smash Team. This. Is. 2013.

 

[Karsticles]

I need fully functional online match customization.

Public Match

>Free For All
>2v2
Stock Toggle : 3 or 5
Time Match: 5 Mins or 7 Mins
Items or No Items
Stage Voting with random roulette (IE Mario Kart Wii)
Match Search function to find the games you want.
Rival System

Private Match

All options from local available
Specials : Stamina, Sudden Death, Coin Match


Do. Not. Fail. Me. Smash Team. This. Is. 2013.

This is Marvel all over again. Everyone is obsessing over the roster when people should really be bugging about feature sets.

 

[HK-47]

5 characters who are likely to be removed?

-Snake - Not due to relevancy, he was never really important, but as a third party character, negotiations could always fall through, especially with Konami's increased distance from Nintendo these days (no Hundson, no ProEvo, etc)

-Falco - Wolf had more unique assets built into his character, and the only reason Star Fox had so many characters in Brawl was due to its popularity in Melee. Star Fox characters weren't that popular in Brawl and the series is otherwise almost dead.

-Lucas - Ness has worldwide appeal, and, if characters are getting cut, I think he'd go before Toon Link, Ganondorf or a second Star Fox character.

-Ike - Replaced by an Awakening representative.

-ROB - I think he could be dropped for the same reason as Mewtwo - in spite of being completely unique, he just wasn't very popular. So, if Sakurai ends up having to cut characters to finish the line up again, he'll go. Also, his moveset seemed mostly based on SSE, rather than ROB itself, so he might even have been intended to be a one shot.

You think Sakurai of all people was trying to plz the Fox/Falco users from Melee? The reason Falco is in is cause he is Fox's badass, sarcastic wingman.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Public Match

>Free For All
>2v2

And 1v1. There's really no reason not to.

This isn't PlayStation All-Stars.

 

[Village]

GENRE CLASSIFICATION!!!!

I went through this whole exercise way back and came to the decision that it's a "2D Free-Range fighter." To complete the categorization:

2D Traditional: Street Fighter
2D Free-Range: SSB
3D Traditional: Soul Calibur
3D Free-Range: Power Stone

This is now canon..

 

[Randdalf]

Man, Super Smash as a F2P game could potentially be amazing. Start off by giving players 5-10 characters and then they can pay for additional characters, alt colors, costumes, stage music and such. It could also pave the way for continued development past the game's release date.

Please no, the League of Legends model is terrible for gamers and the game itself. A Dota 2/TF2 model is the only one I could see suiting Smash without adversely affecting the game.

 

[DaBoss]

Is F2P now a new part of the cycle? F2P is a terrible idea.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Is F2P now a new part of the cycle? F2P is a terrible idea.

I mentioned I'm not necessarily for the idea, but what exactly would be the negatives of the Dota 2 model? I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

 

[demidar]

I mentioned I'm not necessarily for the idea, but what exactly would be the negatives of the Dota 2 model? I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

I think the problems with that model is the infrastructure of getting it to work, Nintendo's kinda bad at online at constantly sending out updates and making sure each Wii U is synced with the right information would cause a massive headache to owners who aren't as tech savvy as Steam users. Then there's space issues.

 

[J-Tier]

I don't mind F2P when done right, but I don't think I want to see it with Smash.

 

[qq more]

I would rather pay for Smash Bros just once

no DLC or anything

Part of the excitement is waiting for the next game for a new set of newcomers. I feel that DLC characters would just ruin that.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Soo...no Dojo this time? Doesn't bother me, I feel it's better to keeps things a secret to wow us with as the game gets closer release.

That's right! That's good news imo.

September at the absolute earliest, November at the absolute latest.

If they decide to release it on Sunday then it will be Sept 21, 2014 but If they decide to release it on Tuesday then it will be Sept 23, 2014.

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

No please and thank you. All Smash needs is dedicated DLC post launch, none of this F2P over-monetization.

Agreed. I would love to see DLC characters but I have a doubt that we are getting one since it would cost more with Namco-Bandai helping out.

Did Sakurai confirm no Dojo updates ever yesterday?!

I believe so.

 

[DaBoss]

I mentioned I'm not necessarily for the idea, but what exactly would be the negatives of the Dota 2 model? I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

I want the full game and Smash is one series that is chalk full of content. F2P means paying for all of that separate content that will likely exceed the price of a full retail game.

 

[HK-47]

Ness needs a new up and down smash...really bad. Charging them doesn't even add knockback and damage in brawl.

I think Project M reset them to the 64 versions with disjointed hitboxes and high knockback.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I want the full game and Smash is one series that is chalk full of content. F2P means paying for all of that separate content that will likely exceed the price of a full retail game.

Yeah, I suppose that's why I'd prefer a retail version as well. Don't know if Killer Instinct is doing this, but instead of it being one or the other, they could release both a retail version that would have everything and a F2P version that would have way less stuff.

Part of the excitement is waiting for the next game for a new set of newcomers. I feel that DLC characters would just ruin that.

Next game...

 

[IntelliHeath]

I would rather pay for Smash Bros just once

no DLC or anything

Part of the excitement is waiting for the next game for a new set of newcomers. I feel that DLC characters would just ruin that.

Next game? What if there is no next console for Nintendo?

 

[Revven]

This is Marvel all over again. Everyone is obsessing over the roster when people should really be bugging about feature sets.

This is how it is before every Smash game is released. All anyone cares about are characters, that's the selling point of the game for most people, "is my favorite character in thereerererre!?"

It was the same way before Brawl. No one could stop talking about characters. And part of that is because a large base of Smash are people who don't play the game competitively.

You'd think at least there'd be some place to talk about what you wanna see in the game in the way of modes or features... but no, not even Smashboards has any of that discussion. People are too stuck on characters, it's a curse of this franchise and I don't think it's ever going to go away.

We'll continually be stuck with something like Special Brawl/Special Melee, 1P modes like Event Mode, and nothing that really expands or changes up the gameplay... or anything that allows the player to customize the game to their preferences, including online options. All because the fans aren't loud enough about these other things, because characters are constantly on everyone's minds; at all times.

It's worse than MvC, imo, in this way.

I would love to see things like expanding Teams, such as branching out to allow you to do Tag Team stuff or something. I mean, Teams is already really cool with Friendly Fire on but there needs to be more things like that in the game to make those other features more interesting or fun to play with.

 

[Village]

Part of the excitement is waiting for the next game for a new set of newcomers. I feel that DLC characters would just ruin that.

That makes no sense at all.

 

[DigitalOp]

And 1v1. There's really no reason not to.

This isn't PlayStation All-Stars.

I agree as well. 1 v 1 is tons of fun.

But that PS All Stars dig was a low ass blow

 

[Azure J]

This is how it is before every Smash game is released. All anyone cares about are characters, that's the selling point of the game for most people, "is my favorite character in thereerererre!?"

It was the same way before Brawl. No one could stop talking about characters. And part of that is because a large base of Smash are people who don't play the game competitively.

You'd think at least there'd be some place to talk about what you wanna see in the game in the way of modes or features... but no, not even Smashboards has any of that discussion. People are too stuck on characters, it's a curse of this franchise and I don't think it's ever going to go away.

We'll continually be stuck with something like Special Brawl/Special Melee, 1P modes like Event Mode, and nothing that really expands or changes up the gameplay... or anything that allows the player to customize the game to their preferences, including online options. All because the fans aren't loud enough about these other things, because characters are constantly on everyone's minds; at all times.

It's worse than MvC, imo, in this way.

All I need are lobbies, streams/spectator modes, and netcode that doesn't make Niitsuma's "Speed of Light" netcode look like it was coded by Jesus. Custom versus elements (like the custom rules in a standard offline match) for random battles would be cool too.

 

[HK-47]

Man, Super Smash as a F2P game could potentially be amazing. Start off by giving players 5-10 characters and then they can pay for additional characters, alt colors, costumes, stage music and such. It could also pave the way for continued development past the game's release date.

Paying for characters is the nearly the worst kind of f2p.

Spoiler

Come at me boken!

 

[IntelliHeath]

This is how it is before every Smash game is released. All anyone cares about are characters, that's the selling point of the game for most people, "is my favorite character in thereerererre!?"

It was the same way before Brawl. No one could stop talking about characters. And part of that is because a large base of Smash are people who don't play the game competitively.

Yeah, you could be right about that. However it's not really all about favorite characters to me because it is more of how would they work if they got in the game. Sometime for my case, I'm curious with retro characters and how would they look like when they get upgraded such as Mike Jones, Balloon Fighter, etc.

You'd think at least there'd be some place to talk about what you wanna see in the game in the way of modes or features... but no, not even Smashboards has any of that discussion. People are too stuck on characters, it's a curse of this franchise and I don't think it's ever going to go away.

We'll continually be stuck with something like Special Brawl/Special Melee, 1P modes like Event Mode, and nothing that really expands or changes up the gameplay... or anything that allows the player to customize the game to their preferences, including online options. All because the fans aren't loud enough about these other things, because characters are constantly on everyone's minds; at all times.

It's worse than MvC, imo, in this way.

Well, it is more like we are trusting them to deliver with single contents. I'm always interested in their single contents and they better bring individual Break the Targets back.

 

[MisterLuffy]

I really don't care what characters Sakurai puts in the game as long its not Mii character. Also, in my previous posts, I said I want ZZS to make it in. But if that doesn't happen, its all for the best. As long the characters are good and unique in their own way. I want to see what new features they're going to have in the game. I hope they fix the netcode because brawl netcode was horrendous.

 

[DigitalOp]

I really wanna see Event Matches come back. Those were always my favorite feature having to fight under certain circumstances.

Giga Bowser from Melee was awesome. I also loved Giant Yoshi and the 100 Yoshi challenge as well

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

If they made the game f2p I'd never buy it.

DLC in games should be like extended versions or alternative endings of movies, just extra stuff. Give us the full thing in the disc.

 

[Karsticles]

All I need are lobbies, streams/spectator modes, and netcode that doesn't make Niitsuma's "Speed of Light" netcode look like it was coded by Jesus. Custom versus elements (like the custom rules in a standard offline match) for random battles would be cool too.

That's the bare minimum for you, but what's Sakurai's ideal? Here's what Brawl had:
1) Friend Codes
2) Worst Netcode Ever
3) Online Multiplayer Timed Mode Only
4) No Spectating
5) No Matchmaking
6) No Item Customization

Most of this because of some ass-brained notion of "fun" Sakurai had.

The real Smash campaign should be about an online feature set, not characters. Not having Palutena would be devastating, but what would be even worse is me only playing Smash for 2 weeks because it's unplayable online. That was my Brawl experience.

I really wanna see Event Matches come back. Those were always my favorite feature having to fight under certain circumstances.

Giga Bowser from Melee was awesome. I also loved Giant Yoshi and the 100 Yoshi challenge as well

Event matches were waaaaaay better than SSE. SSE was garbage.

 

[Berordn]

If the new adventure mode is a series of character-specific event matches with silly cgi fanservice cutscenes tying it all together I'll forgive them for SSE.

 

[Red Arremer]

If they made the game f2p I'd never buy it.

I see what you did there.

 

[Village]

That's the bare minimum for you, but what's Sakurai's ideal? Here's what Brawl had:
1) Friend Codes
2) Worst Netcode Ever
3) Online Multiplayer Timed Mode Only
4) No Spectating
5) No Matchmaking
6) No Item Customization

Most of this because of some ass-brained notion of "fun" Sakurai had.

The real Smash campaign should be about an online feature set, not characters. Not having Palutena would be devastating, but what would be even worse is me only playing Smash for 2 weeks because it's unplayable online. That was my Brawl experience.


Event matches were waaaaaay better than SSE. SSE was garbage.

I am gonna have to disagree.

If the new adventure mode is a series of character-specific event matches with silly cgi fanservice cutscenes tying it all together I'll forgive them for SSE.

So.....SSE

 

[DaBoss]

If the new adventure mode is a series of character-specific event matches with silly cgi fanservice cutscenes tying it all together I'll forgive them for SSE.

They aren't going to do this if I understand what Sakurai said about them not being special since it is just uploaded to the internet.

 

[Tookay]

They aren't going to do this if I understand what Sakurai said about them not being special since it is just uploaded to the internet.

That whole answer was really baffling to be honest.

Being able to watch cutscenes online doesn't seem like a good reason to remove it.

(A good reason to remove it is because it wasn't particularly fun, ran too long, and took away resources from the multiplayer component.)

 

[onionfrog]

Event matches were waaaaaay better than SSE. SSE was garbage.

My man!
SSE was a waste of development time that could've gone into more characters or better net code.
I'm glad it'll be gone in SSB4.

 

[Berordn]

So.....SSE

Sure, without the spr srs plot and the boring beat-em-up stages.

There were what, 8 bosses in SSE? Six standard battles?

 

[qq more]

That makes no sense at all.

I would ask how come but I'm honestly not in a good mood to argue.

 

[Karsticles]

My man!
SSE was a waste of development time that could've gone into more characters or better net code.
I'm glad it'll be gone in SSB4.

Did we get confirmation of that?

Also, Skullgirls sometime today?

 

[Village]

My man!
SSE was a waste of development time that could've gone into more characters or better net code.
I'm glad it'll be gone in SSB4.

I'm not.

Not into half assed.

I would ask how come but I'm honestly not in a good mood to argue.

Oh well hope you feel better.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

That whole answer was really baffling to be honest.

Being able to watch cutscenes online doesn't seem like a good reason to remove it.

(A good reason to remove it is because it was weak, ran too long, and took away resources from better things.)

It makes absolutely no sense. Practically the only thing that drove me to go through the SSE were for those silly, fanservicey cutscenes. If they're just going to offer all of them from the outset, I'll just watch them all and feel no compulsion to go through whatever single player campaign they have in mind unless it's truly awesome.

 

[RM8]

SSE was okay-ish... but at some point it started feeling like a chore to me. And any effort put into SSE was effort not put into making the game more balanced. So yeah, I won't miss SSE.

 

[onionfrog]

Did we get confirmation of that?

Also, Skullgirls sometime today?

The developer is also planning an update to the game's single-player content, but will take a different approach this time.

"There will be a single player [campaign], but it won't be like the [Subspace Emissary] mode in Brawl," Sakurai explained. That game's adventure mode offered a series of unlockable movies that explained the Subspace Emissary plot. "One thing we can do with the Smash Bros. series that's unique to us — because we have all these different disparate characters brought together — is we can create that sort of fan-movie experience as a special gift. But now those things are posted on the internet, it doesn't really become a gift for people who played the game."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4429220/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-nintendo-3ds-removes-tripping

 

[Karsticles]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4429220/super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-nintendo-3ds-removes-tripping

Cool, but what about SG?

 

[Revven]

Well, it is more like we are trusting them to deliver with single contents. I'm always interested in their single contents and they better bring individual Break the Targets back.

It's been three games so far and in Brawl, he literally reiterated on the same content for single player. Except Event Mode was strictly worse than Melee (no rewards for playing through it, thus no incentive and the events themselves were completely meh). And of course Break the Targets was worse, Homerun Contest was worse (but this has to do with the shield surrounding the sandbag area + Brawl's physics) and the other single player modes outside of SSE weren't really expanded upon at all (All-Star was still All-Star, which is fine I guess). And Classic Mode was made to have completely random match-ups and such (which I think most people will agree was a bad choice).

So I'm not as trusting of Sakurai's or the rest of the team's ability to either expand or innovate the single player content, much less the multiplayer content. If Brawl was truly all about content, it had all the bloat without all of it being meat (meaning some of it was quite shallow and didn't deliver).

Until I actually see Break the Targets being character focused like 64/Melee and Board the Platforms is back, I'm not going to be very optimistic or hopeful about single player stuff. Likewise for MP, if all I see is Special [insert Smash Bros game title here] it's a bad sign that they've somehow run out of ideas (which I'm not even sure how you can with how Smash works as a game and what hasn't been explored with the series, like with what I said, having a Tag Team mode would be really cool; something Smash hasn't explored before).

If they're not going to expand single player content, I should be seeing the resources of those efforts being put towards expanding multiplayer content, both for online and offline play. And I should be seeing the results as more than just tacking on the same three-five modes of play we've seen since Melee (Coin, Special, FFA, Teams, 1v1). I'll be especially disappointed if they do have the same MP content like always but don't even try to expand the current options (such as allowing the players to have Stamina + Stocks).

 

[ffdgh]

I suppose one positive of SSE is how easy it was to unlock everyone.

 

[HK-47]

SSE was okay-ish... but at some point it started feeling like a chore to me. And any effort put into SSE was effort not put into making the game more balanced. So yeah, I won't miss SSE.

This is not how game development works. Brawl's imbalance wasnt caused by a single player mode.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I suppose one positive of SSE is how easy it was to unlock everyone.

Normally I would agree, in most games I hate unlocking characters. But in the Smash series I've always found it really enjoyable to get them the hard way.

 

[Ryce]

They aren't going to do this if I understand what Sakurai said about them not being special since it is just uploaded to the internet.

This has me a little worried about hidden characters. As soon as the game leaks/hits the streets, the full roster is uncovered within a day. Like a lot of contemporary fighting games, Sakurai might have decided to make the full roster available at the start. Honestly, Wii Fit Trainer feels like the type of character who would have been hidden in Melee or Brawl. Like Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B., she's an unexpected non-fighter representing a significant piece of hardware.

 

[onionfrog]

Cool, but what about SG?

I should be able to get on sometime tonight. Probably between 8 and 11pm EST.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Sort of Off Topic, but this has been bugging me as I lurk the thread. People keep talking about Marth as a character versus "Marth" as a new addition. I understand that the distinction is something spoilery from Fire Emblem, so no one wants to post it, but could someone send me a PM and clear it up for me? I'm really curious about it and probably not gonna play the game soon enough to care if I get spoiled. Thanks!

 

[DaBoss]

I suppose one positive of SSE is how easy it was to unlock everyone.

I hated that lol.

I wanted to first complete the single-player before going full out on Group mode and it made me miss the "New Challenger Approaching" stuff.

Glad that Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link had to be battled to be unlocked, but wasn't as satisfying as randomly unlocking a character and then battling the character.