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[soco]

in a number of the classes i've been in, lots of kids have been taking ipads instead of laptops recently. many people will even borrow the ipads from the school to use for things. they make a lot more sense for a variety of tasks, and there's some decent software for taking notes even using a 3rd party stylus. the quality and diversity of the software is generally much nicer there than on android devices.

i love my android phone, but damn is that thing a user experience nightmare.

 

[Half and half]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/19/apple-ipads-los-angeles-schools/

Out of all the tablets out in the world, iPads at $678 a piece is the best choice you can make? The most expensive tablet with no pen and no uSD card slot?

Don't you think a proper pen and note taking ability might be important for a school tablet? And you have choices of both Android and Win 8 ones that are cheaper than $600! Shit, on the Win 8 ones, you can ACTUALLY RUN MS OFFICE.

As someone who's been teaching for years, iPad is the last tablet I would be thinking of when it comes to using it in a teaching environment.

I'll bet someone is getting a nice check for making this shitty deal too...

At least the LA schools have taste.

 

[MilesWebber]

Idiots. They could've gotten twice as many tablets if they went with non-Apple.

Right because extensive educational software, textbooks and frameworks exist for use on sub-$200 tablets running android.

Seriously GAF. What the fuck. It's about accessibility to resources not brand loyalty.

 

[goodfella]

Why does the education system need tablets?

At least for now, they are clearly luxury consumer devices. Even if they did everything a PC did, it would be like a school buying a load of macbook airs to replace its desktops, just because laptops are trending in the consumer market.

 

[royalan]

30 million to provide fucking IPADS to 47 campuses in LAUSD.

LAUSD has over 60 HIGH SCHOOLS alone.

L-O-Motherfucking-L

As a product of LAUSD, I will be shocked - SHOCKED - if any inner-city, mostly-minority schools see a single fucking one of these things.

30 million...lol

EDIT: Some schools in LAUSD are still using textbooks that have "OUTDATED, PLEASE DONATE" stamped on the back. But lets spend 30 million on iPads to supply less than 1/4 of the entire district.

 

[watershed]

I don't know what kind of deal the district is getting on these ipads but I have personally heard of and seen great uses for ipads in education, even in elementary school classes. Having a screen with a easy interface right in front of each student can really make a big difference.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Why does the education system need tablets?

At least for now, they are clearly luxury consumer devices. Even if they did everything a PC did, it would be like a school buying a load of macbook airs to replace its desktops, just because laptops are trending in the consumer market.

Just because you've decided that doesn't make it fact.

 

[Josh7289]

iPad has the best app support.

 

[zero shift]

A completely useless device in a place of learning to be honest. It's not going to revolutionize the way information is given to pupils. A waste of resources, instead money should be used to train good teachers.

In Finland the only thing that was needed for good PISA scores = qualified teachers and books.

But what about unions? Big government? Minorities?

Samsung's S-Note (pre-installed to Note devices) have the same feature, as do bunch of programs on Windows Tablet PC side.

This is why people are saying that you have a fanboy angle. Instead of saying "lot tablets for public education" you say "THEY USED APPLE!!!" Who gives a fuck about that? I'm angry that many schools in Cali are strapped for cash while others get iPads.

 

[Phoenix]

Why does the education system need tablets?

At least for now, they are clearly luxury consumer devices. Even if they did everything a PC did, it would be like a school buying a load of macbook airs to replace its desktops, just because laptops are trending in the consumer market.

Why does the education system need computers? Just because there is a wealth of education software on them and there are any number of studies that show substantial increases in student engagement in schools that have them - why bother spending money on them. Oh wait, those are all valid reasons for both...

 

[crozier]

Apple is going to replace devices that go missing free of charge? Lol. I wonder how long it will take them to realize that was a horrible mistake?

iPad textbooks are godawful too. Navigating them is a royal pain in the ass, and most are little more than over glorified PDF files. Hope the apps alone are worth $30M.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I don't think they're meant for a single app. Look at the school administrators here that deploy iPads in their schools, they talk about the third party apps.

The article mentions a Pearson education app bundled with the iPads. In the future, I'm sure school administrators will be very slow and deliberate in deciding which new education apps to include in the curriculum so that's why the argument that ipad makes sense since you get more tablet apps on the iOS app store avoids the way school districts would actually behave. And since you're really just using these tablets for a few (allowed) functions, arguing about learning curve or intuitiveness is also stupid.

School districts can contract Pearson or textbook companies to make apps with exactly what they want for whatever mobile platform they prefer. Hell it would actually make more sense to have an Android fork with restricted functions and no access to any official app stores but that's kind of getting off-topic.

I work in Academic Technology at a University. We have a bunch of smart boards and a bunch of iPads. Trust me when I tell you, the iPads are used 100x (not exaggerating) more frequently and effectively than the smartboards.

How do they usually use the tablets in a classroom?

 

[numble]

The article mentions a Pearson education app bundled with the iPads. In the future, I'm sure school administrators will be very slow and deliberate in deciding which new education apps to include in the curriculum so that's why the argument that ipad makes sense since you get more tablet apps on the iOS app store avoids the way school districts would actually behave. And since you're really just using these tablets for a few (allowed) functions, arguing about learning curve or intuitiveness is also stupid.

School districts can contract Pearson or textbook companies to make apps with exactly what they want for whatever mobile platform they prefer. Hell it would actually make more sense to have an Android fork with restricted functions and no access to any official app stores but that's kind of getting off-topic.

How do they usually use the tablets in a classroom?

The article doesn't mention a Pearson app, it mentions that Apple will provide a custom app tailored to the Pearson core curriculum. It also mentions a lot of third party apps, and administrators on GAF already talk about using the educational discount to load in a lot of third party apps.

It would not make more sense to have the school IT people administer an Android fork. There are already built-in restrictions for enterprise and education that are ready to roll on iPads. They shouldn't need to contract with textbook companies who already offer volume discount for educational purchases of textbooks and apps in the iTunes ecosystem. Apple has software and hardware available already to sync multiple devices together at the same time. They even have AirPlay for students/teachers to project presentations from their iPads.

And there is already the iTunes U software that teachers can build their own lessons around, assigning and collecting assignments.

There is a lot of hypotheticals thrown about about Android tablets but they simply don't have the infrastructure for this type of deployment. It's telling when the other 2 serious proposals were for HP and Dell Windows tablets, not Android tablets. On top of the software infrastructure being ready for educational use, they also need to be able to provide software and hardware support, something that very few companies can do. I'm sure a big part of the deal was the ease of hardware support-they can just contact the local Apple Store's business support staff, and defective hardware can be exchanged on the spot.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Volunteering at a children's hospital I must say that iPads are beyond amazing for learning for kids with disabilities. I don't think you will find those kind of apps on an Android and definitely not on WP8.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

This is bad. The utilization of the fingers when writing is essential for the development of the brain.

Welp. I guess I should expect kids to become dumber in their motions.

 

[Maximus.]

I don't believe giving every student a $600 iPad is the best way to implement new technology. Interactive whiteboards seem like a better technology to invest in and it's much more cost effective because each one is bound to a classroom instead of a single student and it can be used for 10-20 years.

An interactive whiteboard is something that works in a group setting. Students all have different needs, there are differences in interactive textbooks versus paper. You cant share a textbook over a whiteboard. It allows educational apps to be used instead of archaic boards and paper. Yes the price per student is high, but it allows more opportunity for growth. Also school boards dont update technology as fast as it grows. These iPads will be used for longer than 3 years.

 

[royalan]

An interactive whiteboard is something that works in a group setting. Students all have different needs, there are differences in interactive textbooks versus paper. You cant share a textbook over a whiteboard. It allows educational apps to be used instead of archaic boards and paper. Yes the price per student is high, but it allows more opportunity for growth. Also school boards dont update technology as fast as it grows. These iPads will be used for longer than 3 years.

The bigger issue to me is that, regardless of whatever benefit iPads can bring to learning, spending 30 million on tablets that will only be offered to a tiny fraction of the district's student population is an unfathomable waste of money, no matter how you look at it. Especially for a school district that bitches about its budget seemingly every other year.

In fact, it's almost disgusting to even discuss how these tablets will possibly improve learning, considering the sheer amount of students who won't ever benefit from them. And it's plainly obvious that these tablets are likely to go to schools that already receive preferential treatment from the district. Meanwhile, there are high schools in LAUSD that can't even fucking afford textbooks that were printed within the last decade.

At least interactive whiteboards could have been dispersed across a wider range of schools and benefited a larger number of kids.

 

[human5892]

Depriving kids of card slots? Now they'll never learn anything!

 

[Technosteve]

lol shog, Apple won vs Microsoft even with that steep microsoft discount

 

[Vyer]

Lol. This thread is about the perfect example of how shitty fanboy OS Warz are. Mad because kids are getting devices from the company you don't like.

 

[numble]

The bigger issue to me is that, regardless of whatever benefit iPads can bring to learning, spending 30 million on tablets that will only be offered to a tiny fraction of the district's student population is an unfathomable waste of money, no matter how you look at it. Especially for a school district that bitches about its budget seemingly every other year.

In fact, it's almost disgusting to even discuss how these tablets will possibly improve learning, considering the sheer amount of students who won't ever benefit from them. And it's plainly obvious that these tablets are likely to go to schools that already receive preferential treatment from the district. Meanwhile, there are high schools in LAUSD that can't even fucking afford textbooks that were printed within the last decade.

At least interactive whiteboards could have been dispersed across a wider range of schools and benefited a larger number of kids.

The plan is to roll it out to every student over the next 2 years. Think of this as a pilot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0619-lausd-20130619,0,3194906.story

Apple Inc. won a $30-million contract Tuesday from the Los Angeles Unified School District, paving the way for the company to provide every student with an iPad in the nation's second-largest school system.

...

On the tablets, the board voted 6 to 0 to authorize the purchase of the devices after senior staff lauded the iPad option as both the best in quality and the least expensive product that met the district's specifications.

L.A. Unified will begin rolling out the devices to 47 campuses. However, by choosing Apple as the sole vendor, the district also made a de facto commitment to spend hundreds of millions of dollars with the Cupertino, Calif., digital giant over the next two years.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_23489311/lausd-spending-30-million-buy-30-000-ipads

The Los Angeles Unified board Tuesday approved a $30 million contract to buy iPads for 30,000 students, the first phase in an ambitious plan to equip every pupil with a tablet computer within the next 14 months.

The deal is a huge win for Apple, as the district expects to continue with the same vendor as it acquires the technology that can support the new Common Core curriculum launching in 2014, as well as a new online state testing system.

The plan is already budgeted out of Measures R and Y, which raised $7.7 billion for LAUSD through property taxes.

 

[Valnen]

Lol. This thread is about the perfect example of how shitty fanboy OS Warz are. Mad because kids are getting devices from the company you don't like.

Mad because of an enormous waste of resources is more like it. California can't afford this shit. This money should go to getting text books, shrinking classrooms, and paying teachers better.

 

[Vyer]

Mad because of an enormous waste of resources is more like it. California can't afford this shit.

Mad about SD card slots and S-Pens isn't about what CA can 'afford'.

 

[spiderman123]

The classroom experience has become redundant and boring. It is not a wonder why kids these days are not going to school. Shake things up a bit, make it more exciting. Give them a reason to go to school. A new, more modern way of learning is always a good thing.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

The California state government sucks shit at finances, especially the educational sector. A friend can personally attest to that and actually wants to totally spill some of the bullshit that occurs over in one of the many educational special districts.


The government doesn't even negotiate, they just throw whatever money the contractor wants. No need for fucking tablets. Need to craft a better education/curriculum before moving forward with furtherinf tech available in school.


Just my two cents. I hate the financial irresponsibility of them dumbasses. More of a rant here.

 

[royalan]

The plan is to roll it out to every student over the next 2 years. Think of this as a pilot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0619-lausd-20130619,0,3194906.story


http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_23489311/lausd-spending-30-million-buy-30-000-ipads


The plan is already budgeted out of Measures R and Y, which raised $7 billion for LAUSD through property taxes.

So, LAUSD already spent 30 million dollars to equip 31,000 students AND faculty with iPads in a district that services more than 600,000 students alone? And, by this time next year, they'll have spent enough to equip every student in the district? And Apple is going to replace all iPads that are lost, stolen or broken?

To be honest, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I just find it so freaking hard to believe that a district that can't even provide all of its students with up-to-date textbooks, that fought my school when we tried to order busses to take our academic decathlon team to competition because it wasn't in the budget, is suddenly going to provide a $600 tablet to every or even most students.

I'm going to have to see this shit.

 

[KHarvey16]

Mad because of an enormous waste of resources is more like it. California can't afford this shit. This money should go to getting text books, shrinking classrooms, and paying teachers better.

So you've looked at the evidence and determined that tablets in the classroom do not improve the quality of education?

 

[numble]

Mad because of an enormous waste of resources is more like it. California can't afford this shit. This money should go to getting text books, shrinking classrooms, and paying teachers better.

Measures R & Y, which were approved by voters, can only go towards infrastructure spending. LAUSD does have a problem with overly lavish infrastructure with crazy architecture, including a $600 million school where the Ambassador Hotel was and a $240 million art high school, so spending it on technology like iPads might be a better use of infrastructure money.

 

[bobbytkc]

An ipad is not an asset for education. It is a waste of money.

Now, a windows 8 tablet with a digitizer pen, THAT could be a real asset. I know. I owned both.

 

[numble]

So, LAUSD already spent 30 million dollars to equip 31,000 students AND faculty with iPads in a district that services more than 600,000 students alone? And, by this time next year, they'll have spent enough to equip every student in the district? And Apple is going to replace all iPads that are lost, stolen or broken?

To be honest, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I just find it so freaking hard to believe that a district that can't even provide all of its students with up-to-date textbooks, that fought my school when we tried to order busses to take our academic decathlon team to competition because it wasn't in the budget, is suddenly going to provide a $600 dollar tablet to every, or even most students.

I'm going to have to see this shit.

I already mentioned that it comes out of Measures R and Y, passed in 2005 and 2006, which got LAUSD $7.7 billion to spend on infrastructure. Renting busses wouldn't qualify for those type of funds.

LAUSD has many problems, but one thing you probably know is that they are flush with cash to spend on infrastructure, which is why there's a lavish high school across the cathedral, and a $600 million school where the Ambassador Hotel used to be.

But they cannot spend infrastructure money on anything besides infrastructure.

 

[bobbytkc]

I'd rather kids spend that time learning grammar or some shit. Handwriting is totally worthless.

Handwriting is dead? It is almost impossible to do and learn science and math without writing.

 

[numble]

The RFP says that they will also tap 2009's Measure Q for funding in the future, and Measure Q gave LAUSD another $7 billion for infrastructure spending. So this is paid for from measures that gave LAUSD about $15 billion to spend on infrastructure.

http://www.lausd.net/lausd/offices/...mmonCoreTechnologyPresentation_BOC_012313.pdf

 

[GeMiNii]

Still don't get the obsession with digital pens. Even the best setups are inferior to plain old pen and paper, and for note taking it's much worse than a keyboard.

Every argument about why Apple sucks sounds like the same rehashed arguments from the 90's about Linux vs. Windows in the education field.

The bottom line is there are more apps for iOS, better quality Apps for iOS, they are easier to administer, and it's less expensive to administer. Quality control on iPads is going to be much higher than any other tablet on the market (sans niche super durable products) and replacement/support infrastructure from Apple is so ridiculously more fleshed out than any other suppliers it's astounding. iOS also has a much wider pool of experience to draw from to develop in house custom apps. In the end, one year of iPads pays for itself when you consider the cost of textbooks and other supplies it is replacing.

I don't see how "digital pens" even come up in the discussion, especially considering there are capacitive pen options for iPad that would work for something as archaic as handwritten notes.

 

[Maximus.]

The bigger issue to me is that, regardless of whatever benefit iPads can bring to learning, spending 30 million on tablets that will only be offered to a tiny fraction of the district's student population is an unfathomable waste of money, no matter how you look at it. Especially for a school district that bitches about its budget seemingly every other year.

In fact, it's almost disgusting to even discuss how these tablets will possibly improve learning, considering the sheer amount of students who won't ever benefit from them. And it's plainly obvious that these tablets are likely to go to schools that already receive preferential treatment from the district. Meanwhile, there are high schools in LAUSD that can't even fucking afford textbooks that were printed within the last decade.

At least interactive whiteboards could have been dispersed across a wider range of schools and benefited a larger number of kids.

I agree that it should be implemented throughout all districts, rather than just specific ones. The school system is letting down too many children. I am just saying that even though its not everyone, it at least is in the right direction for some kids.

If you want to argue the elevation of education for everyone, it will obviously cost way more than 30 million and is a different issue entirely.

Personally, I feel that the education needs reform world wide, but I dont see it coming for a long ass time :S

 

[Blasty]

I welcome the idea of students getting iPads for educational purposes as a highschool student. We have these interactive smart/white boards. The only thing they're really used for are copying down notes, watching videos, (sometimes for educational videos) and doing certain assignments as a class. An iPad would be far better at doing these same things.

 

[Loofy]

I dont see how this is a bad thing. Sure maybe an ipad wasnt the greatest choice but if this thing really does replace even a couple text books, and thousands of sheets of paper then its already paid for itself.

I think it would have been better though if students had to buy their own ipad, and taxpayers only subsidized them.

 

[freenudemacusers]

An ipad is not an asset for education. It is a waste of money.

Now, a windows 8 tablet with a digitizer pen, THAT could be a real asset. I know. I owned both.

dat digitizer pen

(lol)

 

[entremet]

I don't mind investing in education. It has amazing ROI. Education is amongst the least innovative fields, anything to help children learn more than the traditional failing approaches is fine by me.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/apple/the-school-that-gives-every-student-an-ipad-915539

Stop being a Luddite, OP.

 

[davepoobond]

Or maybe the fact that there were only two computers per classroom meant that the teacher couldn't use them effectively since students would have to take turns while the others sat around doing something else?

Every example of iPads in the classroom I've seen is that each students gets their own device (to be used while in the classroom).

like the junior said, that is precisely my point.

please tell me how every student in LA is going to use an iPad when there are only <40k of them being bought


they should have improved lower quality schools with that money. decrease classroom size, hire more teachers, and improve the buildings. but of course, when you give money to the education system they always find a way to waste it. its good to put money into the education system if it actually is used meaningfully, but since it is never used in such a way, education is such a terrible sinkhole for money.


and which schools are going to be receiving these ipads first?

 

[KHarvey16]

like the junior said, that is precisely my point.

please tell me how every student in LA is going to use an iPad when there are only <40k of them being bought


they should have improved lower quality schools with that money. decrease classroom size, hire more teachers, and improve the buildings. but of course, when you give money to the education system they always find a way to waste it. its good to put money into the education system if it actually is used meaningfully, but since it is never used in such a way, education is such a terrible sinkhole for money.


and which schools are going to be receiving these ipads first?

Phase 1. The plan is in the link provided by numble above.

Also, why is it just declared that this is a waste of money and the idea that it isn't is just dismissed out of hand?

 

[numble]

like the junior said, that is precisely my point.

please tell me how every student in LA is going to use an iPad when there are only <40k of them being bought

and which schools are going to be receiving these ipads first?

They are rolling out to all students. This is phase one in a 2 year process:

The first schools are listed in this link, page 24-27:
http://www.lausd.net/lausd/offices/...mmonCoreTechnologyPresentation_BOC_012313.pdf

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Handwriting is dead? It is almost impossible to do and learn science and math without writing.

We were talking about cursive handwriting.

 

[davepoobond]

Phase 1. The plan is in the link provided by numble above.

Also, why is it just declared that this is a waste of money and the idea that it isn't is just dismissed out of hand?

it could be a good use of money if it is used effectively. not denying that. but since i'm a pessimist, i know that it won't be, especially with my experience with "technology in the classroom"

it seems frivolous when that is what they are spending it on instead of hiring more teachers, like the article said. i know that there's been a lot of teaching and staff cuts over the past couple years and the first instance they get money they go and buy iPads instead

 

[KHarvey16]

it could be a good use of money if it is used effectively. not denying that. but since i'm a pessimist, i know that it won't be, especially with my experience with "technology in the classroom"

it seems frivolous when that is what they are spending it on instead of hiring more teachers, like the article said. i know that there's been a lot of teaching and staff cuts over the past couple years and the first instance they get money they go and buy iPads instead

They can't use this money to hire teachers.

 

[davepoobond]

They can't use this money to hire teachers.

because they locked it up to the iPads, from the article:

The teachers union president Warren Fletcher requested the money be spent on hiring new staff over mass-buying iPads, while district officials argued that national student tests require computer literacy, the LA Times reports -- the board voted unanimously (6 - 0) to approve the contract.

and i understand budgetary restrictions. If this was money that was specifically meant for "technology use only" and not something they can use on teachers, then I don't know why they even bothered mentioning the teachers union thing and nothing about the restrictions placed on the funds.

They are rolling out to all students. This is phase one in a 2 year process:

The first schools are listed in this link, page 24-27:
http://www.lausd.net/lausd/offices/...mmonCoreTechnologyPresentation_BOC_012313.pdf

thanks for the links, i'll take a closer look at this thing since it is interesting.

 

[numble]

it could be a good use of money if it is used effectively. not denying that. but since i'm a pessimist, i know that it won't be, especially with my experience with "technology in the classroom"

it seems frivolous when that is what they are spending it on instead of hiring more teachers, like the article said. i know that there's been a lot of teaching and staff cuts over the past couple years and the first instance they get money they go and buy iPads instead

For some reason Los Angeles voters keep voting for these property tax bonds that are only for infrastructure. They passed 3 in the last decade (at least) giving LAUSD over $14 billion. Maybe it's because it's more expensive to pay teachers, or there's an issue about whether there are some restrictions on what you can do with these type of bond measures? Anyway, I don't know too much about why LA keeps giving LAUSD money for infrastructure, especially since LAUSD has been spending it on overly lavish schools that have nicer buildings than many colleges.

Here's an article about LAUSD overspending on infrastructure:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/editorial/ci_15528229

 

[jstripes]

Mad because of an enormous waste of resources is more like it. California can't afford this shit. This money should go to getting text books, shrinking classrooms, and paying teachers better.

Buy more $90 textbooks that are going to be used for 20 years? Because once they have them, they're not going to be replaced until there's literally 20 pages missing.

At least if they go digital they may be able to get their textbooks updated, and current, by digital subscription.

 

[RukusProvider]

I wonder how many in here even knew what a RFP was before posting or even conducted business in a SLED environment.

But hey, fuck that noise! let me post instead!

 

[Vox-Pop]

30 million to provide fucking IPADS to 47 campuses in LAUSD.

LAUSD has over 60 HIGH SCHOOLS alone.

L-O-Motherfucking-L

As a product of LAUSD, I will be shocked - SHOCKED - if any inner-city, mostly-minority schools see a single fucking one of these things.

30 million...lol

EDIT: Some schools in LAUSD are still using textbooks that have "OUTDATED, PLEASE DONATE" stamped on the back. But lets spend 30 million on iPads to supply less than 1/4 of the entire district.

They will go to the better magnet schools.

 

[captive]

Our distrinct is knee deep in the things.

As expensive as they are... they're cheaper than the laptops we were getting students before.

boom.

Its not a ipad vs other tablets, its ipad vs laptops.