Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS: Info Collection - Dojo, Mega Man and Trailer! 2014!

Yeah, I would be disappointed with her inclusion because in my view, she's a waste of time and slot. Her franchise didn't really contributing to video game history much as Pac-Man, Sonic and Mega Man.

I realize that this is very opinion-dependent, but as we've said before, isn't an inclusion of a character more than a representation of said character's franchise? ROB for example can be seen as a representation of the 80's gaming non-universal legacy. Mr. Game & Watch is sort of like gaming pre-history, predating Mario and even Pac-Man (albeit in a retroactive way). That holds true especially for third-party characters. Snake, for example, can be seen to represent the "outside world", since he's not a character typically connected to Nintendo (via, say, Sonic's rivalry or Mega Man's friendliness).

Likewise, I think Bayonetta can be seen to represent more than just her franchise. Platinum Games aims to be the pinnacle of Japanese game development and in more than one ways, it does just that. Thinking about it, I wouldn't mind a western rep for similar reasons, although I do find it unlikely. I suppose DK is pretty western these days. Especially Diddy, who is almost fully a western created and developed character. :P
 
Why do you think that? Sonic wasn't even in the initial plan, based on Sakurai's post-mortems, and Snake was originally going to be the only 3rd party character. It's suspected that Sonic's the reason why there was the delay from late 2007 to early 2008.

I'm not saying that they can't surprise us, I just don't think they're ever planning a massive reveal like that this early.

Sonic was a relatively late addition to the roster. That's why he only appears at the end of The Subspace Emissary. It's possible that he was added after Snake's reveal.

Well color me surprised. I didn't know Sonic was a late add on. Makes sense in the scope of the game being delayed. Well, I guess that kinda dampens my theory a little..

Perhaps one that they could drop is the inclusion of Mewtwo. Mewtwo is the only character that would make a bigger reveal than Mega Man would, which would also really hype the game.

Mewtwo could make a splash again, but I really do expect someone who may not live up to Megaman, but makes waves on their own as well
 
MetaKnight is terrible in FFA (in my extensive, though still admittedly anecdotal) experience. In fact, since that's my playgroup's primary mode, we were tickled pink to learn that he was top tier in tournament style play because he's not good at all outside that very specific role.

In fact, we'd get a bunch of irregulars who would come over and play with us pretty frequently, and 80% of them would main Metaknight or Snake. The Metaknight players would get thrashed and they couldn't understand why (Snake was still very competent in FFA).

And Ganondorf is allowed to shine in FFA. You just take a more reserved approach, stay out of the fray, get more aggressive when you notice other players with high percents. The use of items gives him a better approach and more options too.

EDIT:

Just for shits and giggles, in our specific playgroup meta, Captain Falcon and Luigi were "top tier" (best stats after thousands of hours of playtime). Isn't Captain Falcon somewhere near the bottom on the "official" tiers? And yet he's incredibly suited for FFA.

Funny, I have similar anecdotal evidence. I haven't looked at the actual stats for my particular playgroup recently (which is admittedly not typically highly skilled), but our best player plays mainly Captain Falcon and just dominates. It may be more of a function of him just being the consistently best player, but suffice to say I was shocked when he was so low on the "tier list." Meta Knight has also never been a massive threat in our group. And then, I can dominate 9/10 times with Zelda and Toon Link (Zelda, too, is embarrassingly low on the "tier list"). Again, I admit that this may be more of a function of us generally not playing on a very high level, with me being one of the top 2-3 players, ha. But FFA is definitely a whole different beast any way you slice it.
 
Perhaps one that they could drop is the inclusion of Mewtwo. Mewtwo is the only character that would make a bigger reveal than Mega Man would, which would also really hype the game.

I can't...

No. Mewtwo would make for a lame reveal compared to any number of characters. I think that even his biggest fans would be more excited to see an all-new character with a creative moveset.
 
MEWTWO BEST REVEAL OF ALL TIIIIIIIIIIIIIME

I am hyped for Mega Man, but Mewtwo I would even prefer over him.

Yeah. He's right.

The Melee community is loud, and has a huge online presence, but doesn't compare to fans who casually like it.

It's actually a bit of an echo chamber in many smash communities.

Well, they aren't just loud.

Super Smash Bros. Melee: $94,683
Skullgirls: $78,760
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo: $39,567
MLP: Fighting is Magic: $5,280
Dead or Alive 5: $1,900
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R: $1,225
PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale: $1,000
Melty Blood Actress Again Current: $683
Divekick: $650
Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown: $605
SoulCalibur 5: $407
BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma: $265
Capcom vs. SNK 2: $260
Super Smash Bros. Brawl: $170
Darkstalkers 3: $131
Street Fighter 3: Third Strike: $81
Injustice: Gods Among Us: $77

I'd say there is a genuine amount of Melee fans outside of vocal minorities. The difference between Melee and Brawl was that Brawl was on a more popular system and had the hype of Melee. I can't imagine how much Melee would have sold, probably the same range as Brawl did.
 
The final smashes are some of the most unbalanced items in the game. Compare Falco's final smash (Pretty much guaranteed to kill someone) with Captain Falcon's. Falco is top tier without final smashes, Falcon is bottom. That gives you an idea of how well they balance the game's characters.

Falco's final smash is the best. If used right, you can take out two stocks from a single opponent
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.
Yeah, I've thought about a tag team mode. I think it'd at least be an interesting option.
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.

Someone posted a similar idea earlier. It is a great idea.
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.

A lot of people like to sport Luigi hats in their avatars, but Hagger actually pulls off the look.
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.

Ooh, even better, a Royal Rumble mode where every time you die you respawn as a random character. Can be either timed or a pool stock. That'd be fun. Like whatever that wrestling game was I used to play on N64 at my friend's house.
 
mewtwo would be cool but i'm not sure if it would make waves. honestly i think a lot of people don't even realize he's gone. he's just one game removed and the majority of fans don't follow the series that close. i still have memories of playing him firmly in my head. mew would probably be the biggest first-party reveal. he's loved. cute but badass. he's in his nostalgia prime period. he's fresh blood. he's difficult to imagine playing. tons of potential for discussion, fan art, whatever. he checks all the boxes.
 
Well color me surprised. I didn't know Sonic was a late add on. Makes sense in the scope of the game being delayed. Well, I guess that kinda dampens my theory a little..

Seemed pretty obvious to me with how Sonic was thrown into subspace emissary, that he was a last minute addition.
 
Falco's final smash is the best. If used right, you can take out two stocks from a single opponent

Hah. My friends would always hate me when I got his FS. Because I would take them out so easily.

Real talk, Captain Falcon should have had a Super Falcon Punch for his Final Smash. Half the screen size.

I was honestly really expecting this, but you know.. It went to some really lame FS. D:
 
Being serious for a second, Mewtwo is actually quite a popular character. They wouldn't introduce him to the anime again, star him in a new Movie as one of the main characters with a new form if he wasn't.

He also almost won the most popular Pokemon contest a few months (I think a year back).

Not only that, but he's been getting tons of tins along with Rayquaza in the TCG lately.

I was honestly really expecting this, but you know.. It went to some really lame FS. D:

Saaaaame. Was definitely expecting that, haha.
 
I am really disapointed with all we know about this game...

First, i know that kid icarus uprising was a great game and that it was good for bringing pit back but... smash is something really important for nintendo and pit is not so... why they decided to do that game? why starting the new smash bros so "late"? I am saying that they started "late" because they are now trying to do TWO "different" smash games in in the time required to make one, and, because of that, they are not doing two really separeted games (sakurai is saying that they are going to have similar content. Also he has already said in some interviews things like "theres not enough time for this", "theres not enough time for that").

About the time thing, kid icarus uprising was released at the end of march 2012. So, they started with the two smash games in april/may 2012 and they are saying that they are releasing both in 2014. 2014, that means second half of 2014 between summer and Christmas. If they release them in summer, that means around 2 years and something like 3-4 months for doing the game. If they release them before christmas, thats around 2 years and something like 8 months. Summer, that seems like to soon. Christmas, 2 years and 8 months seems like enough for doing a HD smash bros for wiiu but its definitely not enough for doing two completily separated games with nintendo standards.

I wanted a smash for wiiu and a different one for the 3ds. Of course, some of the characters and other classic content, would be the same. But the rest of the game could be "new". I mean, different everything. The problem is that, for doing both with nintendo standars, they would need more time... ... why?... such a huge wasted opportunity... I know that they are both going to be awesome, but this is smash bros. We are not going to have another one in something 6 years. We could have two different games with more content and, in stead, we are getting this?

Nintendo, you are telling me that we have two completely different mario kart games (mario kart 7 and 8) with separate and independent developments, two different 3d mario games (super mario 3d land and super mario 3d world) with separate and independent developments (please dont tell me that they are the "same" because, sorry, they are not), but two similar smash games developed at the same time? nintendo? why is smash less? Both smash games are propbably going to sell crazy, but it would be ALOT better with two different games... i am sad...
 
Funny, I have similar anecdotal evidence. I haven't looked at the actual stats for my particular playgroup recently (which is admittedly not typically highly skilled), but our best player plays mainly Captain Falcon and just dominates. It may be more of a function of him just being the consistently best player, but suffice to say I was shocked when he was so low on the "tier list." Meta Knight has also never been a massive threat in our group. And then, I can dominate 9/10 times with Zelda and Toon Link (Zelda, too, is embarrassingly low on the "tier list"). Again, I admit that this may be more of a function of us generally not playing on a very high level, with me being one of the top 2-3 players, ha. But FFA is definitely a whole different beast any way you slice it.

MetaKnight is terrible in FFA (in my extensive, though still admittedly anecdotal) experience. In fact, since that's my playgroup's primary mode, we were tickled pink to learn that he was top tier in tournament style play because he's not good at all outside that very specific role.

In fact, we'd get a bunch of irregulars who would come over and play with us pretty frequently, and 80% of them would main Metaknight or Snake. The Metaknight players would get thrashed and they couldn't understand why (Snake was still very competent in FFA).

And Ganondorf is allowed to shine in FFA. You just take a more reserved approach, stay out of the fray, get more aggressive when you notice other players with high percents. The use of items gives him a better approach and more options too.

EDIT:

Just for shits and giggles, in our specific playgroup meta, Captain Falcon and Luigi were "top tier" (best stats after thousands of hours of playtime). Isn't Captain Falcon somewhere near the bottom on the "official" tiers? And yet he's incredibly suited for FFA.

You're not going to get a good idea on how FFA with all items on truly works in a "balanced" way when everybody isn't trying to abuse the potential of their character to the fullest extent they can. And using stats given to you by the game doesn't say anything about the character... other than win streaks or whatever. Win streaks aren't enough evidence to go by to determine whether a character is good or not. Especially in the case of items, which randomly spawn, the item that appears is random, and where the item spawns is random. Then you have the move set of the character itself, coupled with their attributes (weight, fallspeed, mobility, recovery, range, priority, character size, etc.)

You can't go merely by win streaks and assume "oh well that character must be good then"... no... the player could have gotten lucky off of an item that spawned next to him, could be playing better than all of you in general (thus player skill being uneven in the group of players and thus having no bearing at all on showing that the character is "good"), or other elements could have happened like three people letting the fourth guy KO all three of them at once.

Ganondorf is inherently a bad character with or without items. He has no positive attributes about him, he has zero mobility, zero range (forward air is not a rangey move in Brawl), he's a tall character (thus gets easily hit around and stuffed out of everything), and his recovery is absolutely abysmal. You could argue his weight is a positive aspect about him, but it's not enough to make up for the many faults of the character and items don't suddenly make all those attributes go away at all. An item spawns once every such and such time and during the time an item has not spawned, Ganondorf is still the same shitty character he is in comp. play.

The reason someone like Captain Falcon might appear better with items on is because of his mobility. But outside of that, he is still the same character as he is in comp. play. He still cannot combo off of any of his moves because of the inherent gameplay mechanics and his priority is bollocks (worse than Melee) in a game where the most prominent character is Meta Knight and the only way to beat his attacks is by having moves that are both fast and meaty. Falcon has no moves that are both fast and meaty to actually trade with MK and even when he gets a hit in, he can't capitalize on it because of the knockback his moves induce. And with being able to cancel hitstun with an air dodge, it just cripples him even further from being able to do anything.

Items don't even allow you to combo if you know the simple basic thing of hitting the L or R button the moment you are sent flying. Hitstun in the previous games at least allowed items to be enjoyable in the sense that you saw people going every which way if an item happened to be in the general trajectory of where someone was sent flying. Something like Snorlax couldn't merely be air dodged through like he can in Brawl (ignoring his overall screen size being shrunken even further from Melee...)

I'm not saying that items don't help at all; they do but only situationally. It's during the downtime there is no items that the character(s) will suffer. And if they have shitty mobility? No chance they can get the item unless it spawns right beside them. (Which can happen)

Items and FFA doesn't really shuffle the stronger or weaker characters around very much because the core of the game are the characters. Their potential lies primarily in how they are designed and if they are slow, more often than not, the faster character will get to the items first and dominate how they should. Hence why someone like Meta Knight is hardly affected by items and someone like Ganondorf might be hurt even more by them being there (it means giving someone like MK even more of an adv. in the MU than Ganondorf... and as it is the MU is already hugely disadvantaged).

What a mouthful of a post but yeah I hope that all makes sense... ^_^;
 
If Sonic is back in(which I'm sure he will be) I really hope they redo his moveset. He had a very boring moveset, and his final smash was INSANE. I liked having them on even with the general unbalanced craziness of it, but it was not hard to smash the ball for him and his payoff was nuts.
 
If anything, items just make the top tiers better if the player using them is any good.

And take out the one relevant thing he has to his games?

Just make him drive them over in the Blue Falcon and then jump out of it and then Falcon Punch them in the face. Best of both worlds.
 
If Sonic is back in(which I'm sure he will be) I really hope they redo his moveset. He had a very boring moveset, and his final smash was INSANE. I liked having them on even with the general unbalanced craziness of it, but it was not hard to smash the ball for him and his payoff was nuts.
I really like Sonic's move set. Sakurai was wise enough to ignore everything after Sonic Adventure.
 
If Sonic is back in(which I'm sure he will be) I really hope they redo his moveset. He had a very boring moveset.

I agree! The whole down-b and side-b was unnecessary. I liked what his neutral b was like in Project M, since it didn't do that weird curve, and with a better impact. Again, I still expected him to have that projectile he had in Sonic Battle. XP
 
I really like Sonic's move set. Sakurai was wise enough to ignore everything after Sonic Adventure.

It mostly made all his moves blend together to me. To be fair I have ignored sonic COMPLETELY this gen, but I heard good things about colors. I don't know what they did with the wisps in that game but maybe it would help differentiate him.
 
If Sonic is back in(which I'm sure he will be) I really hope they redo his moveset. He had a very boring moveset, and his final smash was INSANE. I liked having them on even with the general unbalanced craziness of it, but it was not hard to smash the ball for him and his payoff was nuts.

Sonic's moveset wasn't too bad, but I wonder if it's gonna be updated. How would people feel about Wisps? Arguably, I think that they wouldn't be too unlike Mario's F.L.U.D.D. in a significance level; plus Colors wasn't only the first fully good game after years, but is also directly related to Nintendo. Also, Wisps return in Lost Worlds (and were also in Generations for a small part), so, they seem to be turning into prominent characters / power-ups in the Sonic series.
 
Sonic needs at least 2 reliable KO moves, BTW. F-smash gets stale as heck and b-air is not strong enough. Ugh, screw you, move decay, you're worse than tripping.
 
If Sonic is back in(which I'm sure he will be) I really hope they redo his moveset. He had a very boring moveset, and his final smash was INSANE. I liked having them on even with the general unbalanced craziness of it, but it was not hard to smash the ball for him and his payoff was nuts.

Make his B Left/Right the Boost. It can have a similar effect to Piplup from a Pokeball, pushing characters around while dealing damage at the same time. Of course, it wouldn't be as cheap as Piplup or as long-lasting. Sonic could also use it as a recovery movr in the air, ala Unleashed and Generations.
 
Sonic needs at least 2 reliable KO moves, BTW. F-smash gets stale as heck and b-air is not strong enough. Ugh, screw you, move decay, you're worse than tripping.

Up smash becomes useless at higher percengates too lol. He really needs a knockback buff
 
I am really disapointed with all we know about this game...

First, i know that kid icarus uprising was a great game and that it was good for bringing pit back but... smash is something really important for nintendo and pit is not so... why they decided to do that game? why starting the new smash bros so "late"? I am saying that they started "late" because they are now trying to do TWO "different" smash games in in the time required to make one, and, because of that, they are not doing two really separeted games (sakurai is saying that they are going to have similar content. Also he has already said in some interviews things like "theres not enough time for this", "theres not enough time for that").

About the time thing, kid icarus uprising was released at the end of march 2012. So, they started with the two smash games in april/may 2012 and they are saying that they are releasing both in 2014. 2014, that means second half of 2014 between summer and Christmas. If they release them in summer, that means around 2 years and something like 3-4 months for doing the game. If they release them before christmas, thats around 2 years and something like 8 months. Summer, that seems like to soon. Christmas, 2 years and 8 months seems like enough for doing a HD smash bros for wiiu but its definitely not enough for doing two completily separated games with nintendo standards.

I wanted a smash for wiiu and a different one for the 3ds. Of course, some of the characters and other classic content, would be the same. But the rest of the game could be "new". I mean, different everything. The problem is that, for doing both with nintendo standars, they would need more time... ... why?... such a huge wasted opportunity... I know that they are both going to be awesome, but this is smash bros. We are not going to have another one in something 6 years. We could have two different games with more content and, in stead, we are getting this?

Nintendo, you are telling me that we have two completely different mario kart games (mario kart 7 and 8) with separate and independent developments, two different 3d mario games (super mario 3d land and super mario 3d world) with separate and independent developments (please dont tell me that they are the "same" because, sorry, they are not), but two similar smash games developed at the same time? nintendo? why is smash less? Both smash games are propbably going to sell crazy, but it would be ALOT better with two different games... i am sad...
The best answer that I can give you is that for all of our sakes, Smash Bros. does not move forward without Sakurai's direct involvement. Yet after Brawl, he was quite vocal that he wanted to work on something else. Nintendo accommodated him with Kid Icarus. Yes it put the next Smash Bros on hold for a bit, but I'd rather have a developer who's had time off/the break he requested, and is ready to put his all into it, than to have a game with no heart in it. It's why I really hope that Aonuma is putting his everything into the Wii U Zelda, with the promise from Nintendo that he can try a new project afterward.
 
What about a gametype where you have stock two or three and you can pick three to four characters(or even higher) and when one dies you respawn as the next sort of like MVC. I feel I am going to hate only being able to pick only one character for a match.

Ooh, even better, a Royal Rumble mode where every time you die you respawn as a random character. Can be either timed or a pool stock. That'd be fun. Like whatever that wrestling game was I used to play on N64 at my friend's house.

These sound great. I'd love to see new gametypes for Smash U/3DS.


Me and my friends had a homemade gametype called "President"

I can't remember if we did this in Stamina mode...

But we would have a 3v1 setup.. One life obviously

The player by himself was the Assassin. One player on the team of 3 was the 'President', the other 2 were Bodyguards. The goal is for the Assassin to KO the President. They bodyguards had the goal of defending the President.

The twist was.. The President can only jump and use their specials.


We had so many drop dead hilarious matches. President's falling off stages. Assassins getting dogged. Bodyguards getting punished. Adding Friendly Damage added more fun. Items got chaotic. Higher damage upped the stakes as well.

You all should try it. I miss those times man..
 
And take out the one relevant thing he has to his games?

Compromise, his Final Smash on startup works the same but instead of running them over with the Blue Falcon, he pops out of the cockpit and does the Big Bang Falcon Punch complete with "Meaning of Truth" playing in the background.
 
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