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[Freezie KO]

3D Land was amazing, right from the start. The levels were perfect for a handheld game, they took perfect advantage of the 3DS and were simply fun and addictive in short bursts and looked great with the 3D on.

Shit doesn't make any sense on a home console though. Even less as a successor to Galaxy. It doesn't get better if you mix in some dumb coop parts that look like they belong into fucking Mario Party. It's also funny how many ,,Bubut 3D Land was great!!'' defenders don't get the most crucial point. It's the first time a new hardware solely gets mainline Mario games which are basically nothing but level packs from previous products. This series has been system- and generation defining once, you already forgot? Now we get some title that feels like it solely exists because of market research. And it's not like the WiiU already has ANY game now, or in the whole 2013 lineup that looks like Nintendo has reached the next gen.

Also, fuck green Stars. These ,,3 collectables'' in the 2D games and Galaxy2/3D Land feel way too forced, annoying to collect and poorly stretch the game time. Make something like 64 if you want to encourage exploration, linear stages should at best feature secret exits or hidden power ups - even the best levels get fucking tedious if you gotta repeat them over and over for that last hidden coin/star/whatever to get to the final world. (Which is one reason why Galaxy 1 is still king)

Agreed that this just isn't a system-defining and generation-defining game. That's where the disappointment stems from considering the legacy of the series. And the "3 collectibles" motif just further homogenizes the brand since that's already a key gameplay mechanic from the NSMB series. I'm tired of it. Let's get some new mechanics.

 

[Neo Child]

Bingo.

Also, EAD Tokyo hasn't released a subpar game yet. Why are people expecting this be any different?

because gaf believes every developer owes them the best game ever

 

[Berordn]

Let's get some new mechanics.

So, what about the cat suit, frog suit in three dimensions, clear pipes, multiplayer in 3d, unique characters...

Those are all new to 3D Mario. Are those not mechanics now?

 

[Freezie KO]

So, what about the cat suit, frog suit in three dimensions, clear pipes, multiplayer in 3d, unique characters...

Those are all new to 3D Mario. Are those not mechanics now?

The frog suit and the SMB2 characters aren't really new mechanics if they end up having the same properties they have in 2D. And multiplayer is a game mode, not a mechanic (in addition to being worthless to many of us).

The cat suit is new as are the clear pipes, sure. But we're not talking about a big shake-up here. This is one of the most ground-breaking series in gaming shifting to Call of Duty-levels of iteration. I like Call of Duty, but I expect more from 3D Mario.

 

[Darryl]

So, what about the cat suit, frog suit in three dimensions, clear pipes, multiplayer in 3d, unique characters...

Those are all new to 3D Mario. Are those not mechanics now?

no art and sound are the only real mechanics that matter in mario. give me an even darker color palette and an even more orchestrated sound - a double orchestra. orchestrated coin grabs that blend into the background music to create a newer, fresher, more visceral experience.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

no art and sound are the only real mechanics that matter in mario. give me an even darker color palette and an even more orchestrated sound - a double orchestra. orchestrated coin grabs that blend into the background music to create a newer, fresher, more visceral experience.

Don't forget the story. That's the most important aspect of Mario games

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Agreed that this just isn't a system-defining and generation-defining game. That's where the disappointment stems from considering the legacy of the series. And the "3 collectibles" motif just further homogenizes the brand since that's already a key gameplay mechanic from the NSMB series. I'm tired of it. Let's get some new mechanics.

I don't know why you think you can decide this without even playing the game. How about this one for ya. New Super Mario Bros Wii is a system-defining game. The Wii is Wii Sports, Fit, and NSMBWii for a lot of people. I know plenty of kids whose first mainline Mario is BrosWii and now they're part of the Mario fans fold. It may not be system-defining to you, but Mario was never solely about what one group of people thought about it anyway.

 

[JoeM86]

I'll say this in 3D World's favor, the lack of Tanooki suit is a good move. You grabbed that thing in 3D Land, goodbye potentially challenging platforming stages!

What do you mean? The Tanooki Suit is in it...

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So it is. Well, goodbye potentially challenging level design, then.

 

[Sendou]

What do you mean? The Tanooki Suit is in it...

It has the Tanooki Suit.

It seems to have pretty good selection of past Mario power ups.

 

[catstronaut]

And multiplayer is a game mode, not a mechanic (in addition to being worthless to many of us).

I can understand your frustration at not being able to take advantage of one of this game's features, but dismissing multiplayer as "a game mode, not a mechanic" is really not a good argument. You're right: game modes and mechanics aren't the same thing. But that's because a game mode is actually a larger class than a mechanic. Game modes are made up of mechanics. If you're looking for mechanics, I'm sure you'd find a lot of them in multiplayer. Picking up other players, jumping on their heads, and the way the camera zooms in and out to accommodate them, these are all mechanics. These all comprise the way the game works.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

So it is. Well, goodbye potentially challenging level design, then.

If it's that big of a deal, just don't use the Tanooki suit. It's really pretty simple.

 

[marc^o^]

The frog suit and the SMB2 characters aren't really new mechanics if they end up having the same properties they have in 2D. And multiplayer is a game mode, not a mechanic (in addition to being worthless to many of us).

The cat suit is new as are the clear pipes, sure. But we're not talking about a big shake-up here. This is one of the most ground-breaking series in gaming shifting to Call of Duty-levels of iteration. I like Call of Duty, but I expect more from 3D Mario.

In the footage we saw, you could also control a dinosaur and run a car. I wouldn't surprised to see tons of creative mechanics like that.

Multiplayer may be worthless to you, it doesn't change the fact you get 4 different gameplay mechanics in single player, depending on the character you select.

 

[JoeM86]

The frog suit and the SMB2 characters aren't really new mechanics if they end up having the same properties they have in 2D. And multiplayer is a game mode, not a mechanic (in addition to being worthless to many of us).

The cat suit is new as are the clear pipes, sure. But we're not talking about a big shake-up here. This is one of the most ground-breaking series in gaming shifting to Call of Duty-levels of iteration. I like Call of Duty, but I expect more from 3D Mario.

The Frog Suit apparently has some sort of new mechanic utilising a tongue

Anyway, when you look at the game in single player, it really is no different to the Galaxy levels lacking the physics, and basically just a more focused 3D Mario platformer. I have no doubt it'll be amazing

 

[paranoidfortean]

Honestly this footage was so underwhelming I got rid of my Wii U. I was holding out hope.

 

[Solid SOAP]

I don't care what anyone says, those above screens make the game look pretty damn fun. There seems to be a lot going on in this game, even if they're more subtle things than genre changing mechanics such as gravity and a water pump, I'm happy we seem to be getting a big budget Mario game that's more along the lines of the classics in terms of variety and differing mechanics, plus it's 4-players. From those screens alone we can see the game has a crawling mechanic, bouncing on ants to reach new heights, rolling hills, ice skating, red coins, riding a water dragon, and just a lot of different things to do with Mario and friends.

What made Mario 64 and Sunshine good was how fun it was to maneuver Mario around the many environments they presented to the player. Wall jumping, back-flipping, kick-flips, triple jumps, and all these new moves that Mario had made it a ton of fun to get Mario from one place to the other. However, with all the new mechanics this game is presenting to us, they're creating interesting environments to traverse instead of simply making Mario's moveset interesting.

That said, it truly sucks that they stripped Mario of these awesome mechanics. Mario Sunshine had a lot of shitty Shines to collect, but just playing as Mario in that game was magical. Jumping and flying all over the place was fun in itself, and if they could combine the finesse of controlling Mario with (What seems to be) the superior level design of 3D World, the game would be near perfect.

 

[Spieler Eins]

So, what about the cat suit, frog suit in three dimensions, clear pipes, multiplayer in 3d, unique characters...

Those are all new to 3D Mario. Are those not mechanics now?

I sure wonder why so many people on here complain about the plainness in the New Mario games. Doesn't anyone see it properly, it got a new squirrel suit!

Another big insult is of course going from the Galaxy OST to 3D Land music, which is - outside of remixes - almost as terribly bland as the NSMB games.
why.jpg*

I don't know why you think you can decide this without even playing the game. How about this one for ya. New Super Mario Bros Wii is a system-defining game. The Wii is Wii Sports, Fit, and NSMBWii for a lot of people. I know plenty of kids whose first mainline Mario is BrosWii and now they're part of the Mario fans fold. It may not be system-defining to you, but Mario was never solely about what one group of people thought about it anyway.

The Mario games were defining for both casuals and the hardcore gamers. Now they solely aim for the NSMB casuals with this thing, after lazy NSMB cash ins apparently don't work so well anymore.

Just thinking about this, with the WiiU Nintendo might just be the company that treats their fans the worst right now. Even though they always focus on the opposite in their speeches, lol. Even MS buckled after internet outrage. Even goddamn EA (!) shows slight mercy to their hardcore fans and brings Mirrors Edge 2 among all the other milking, even though it's never gonna do BF4 numbers.
Meanwhile at Iwata, even though he and all the higher ups know the legacy 3D Mario has - nope, 3D Land finally caught some 2D Fans in Japan so let's give it the NSMB treatment. Fans cry just for one new character among all these lazy, safe bets - nope, you don't need those, please be satisfied with a cat suit in this shitty looking Mario instead! They also know the expecations for Retro Studios, BUT Donkey Kong sold much better than Prime, so screw you!
Ugh, this might just end up as Nintendo's worst console if Iwata and friends aren't replaced asap. They don't even take risks in these casual games anymore, who is supposed to be attracted by another Wii Fit rehash? This already didn't work at the 3DS and WiiU launch, but they are apparently completly overwhelmed and fueled by angst after a failed preparation for HD development.
(Thank god there's still the 3DS)

 

[Sadist]

If this is a shitty Mario, I'd be content with your definition of shitty.

In EAD Tokyo we trust.

 

[Yado]

The Mario games were defining for both casuals and the hardcore gamers. Now they solely aim for the NSMB casuals with this thing, after lazy NSMB cash ins apparently don't work so well anymore.

Just thinking about this, with the WiiU Nintendo might just be the company that treats their fans the worst right now. Even though they always focus on the opposite in their speeches, lol. Even MS buckled after internet outrage. Even goddamn EA (!) shows slight mercy to their hardcore fans and brings Mirrors Edge 2 among all the other milking, even though it's never gonna do BF4 numbers.
Meanwhile at Iwata, even though he and all the higher ups know the legacy 3D Mario has - nope, 3D Land finally caught some 2D Fans in Japan so let's give it the NSMB treatment. Fans cry just for one new character among all these lazy, safe bets - nope, you don't need those, please be satisfied with a cat suit in this shitty looking Mario instead! They also know the expecations for Retro Studios, BUT Donkey Kong sold much better than Prime, so screw you!
Ugh, this might just end up as Nintendo's worst console if Iwata and friends aren't replaced asap. They don't even take risks in these casual games anymore, who is supposed to be attracted by another Wii Fit rehash? This already didn't work at the 3DS and WiiU launch, but they are apparently completly overwhelmed and fueled by angst after a failed preparation for HD development.
(Thank god there's still the 3DS)

Iwata has to think like a CEO. The fans have spoken and the response to 3DLand was great. Is he supposed to ignore what people want & what's profitable?

 

[plank]

Looking to get a WiiU soon always planned on getting one. Initially the e3 reveal trailer of SM3DW was underwhelming and my reaction was like everyone else but after seeing gameplay videos and seeing it up-close at the Best Buy event it grew on me. Now I can't wait to get a copy.

 

[JoeM86]

I sure wonder why so many people on here complain about the plainness in the New Mario games. Doesn't anyone see it properly, it got a new squirrel suit!

Another big insult is of course going from the Galaxy OST to 3D Land music, which is - outside of remixes - almost as terribly bland as the NSMB games.
why.jpg*

Have they not implied that we'd get an orchestrated soundtrack within this?

 

[marc^o^]

I sure wonder why so many people on here complain about the plainness in the New Mario games. Doesn't anyone see it properly, it got a new squirrel suit!

To see properly, you should first read the page you posted in, there are lots of new gameplay mechanics discussed. Biggest one being brand new ability in a 3D Mario game to control 4 different characters with various running speed and jumps physics. This is big and not reserved for multiplayer as some imagined. Fast running and small jumps with Toad should prove very challenging, and very different than playing with Mario or Luigi, not to mention Peach. This is an area where this Mario is a big leap forward. Imagine the amount of tests and game design craftmanship to build a game that precise that works on 4 levels in terms of gameplay mechanics. It's not as visible as a texture detail, sure, yet you know how ambitious this is, right?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I sure wonder why so many people on here complain about the plainness in the New Mario games. Doesn't anyone see it properly, it got a new squirrel suit!

Because GAFers always like to find something to complain about, especially if the game is really casual and not "hardcore" (Mario was never "hardcore" except when you were like 6 and barely knew how to use a controller)

 

[tiggerkiddo]

People need to embrace the Bah Bahs!

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Because GAFers always like to find something to complain about, especially if the game is really casual and not "hardcore" (Mario was never "hardcore" except when you were like 6 and barely knew how to use a controller)

You should play Lost Levels.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

The Mario games were defining for both casuals and the hardcore gamers. Now they solely aim for the NSMB casuals with this thing, after lazy NSMB cash ins apparently don't work so well anymore.

And on And on And on

I guess this needs to be state clearly for you since you have this strange ,hard line in the sand, notion that just because some "hardcore" gamers are throwing hissy fits that means this games isn't made for them or made in spite of them.

I am a "hardcore" gamer. I'm exceedingly exciting about the direction of the new Mario game. I think multiplayer is a game changer. I think 3d multiplayer is a huge game changer.
Taking the new paradigm in 3d Land and taking it to the next level isn't lazy, or a rehash to me.

Stop tying to inflate your points by speaking for a whole spectrum of people you have no clue about. You got opinions? Fine. Speak for yourself then.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

You should play Lost Levels.

And I wonder why anywhere outside of Japan never got that until years later

 

[Stylo]

If it's that big of a deal, just don't use the Tanooki suit. It's really pretty simple.

Playing devil's advocate here: In game theory, isn't there discussion about always choosing the best option given? Choosing to ignore the Tanooki suit would seem to add "artificial challenge" ala the 3-heart challenge in the Zelda series and even then it doesn't stop people from complaining about the lack of challenge.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Playing devil's advocate here: In game theory, isn't there discussion about always choosing the best option given? Choosing to ignore the Tanooki suit would seem to add "artificial challenge" ala the 3-heart challenge in the Zelda series and even then it doesn't stop people from complaining about the lack of challenge.

Game theory and rational decision making has nothing to do with playing video games for entertainment.

(Well, not with single-player games at least. Certainly with MMOs and multiplayer games I guess)

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Tanooki suit the new Poison Mushroom, run away from it if you like even a modicum of challenging, interesting platforming.

 

[Dion Blaster]

If 3D World is widely considered a 7-8 out of 10 game, I will gladly eat crow. But pre-rating a game like that is ridiculous. I get the feeling some of you will have already made up your minds about the game before playing it. Maye you already have.

 

[Darryl]

Tanooki suit the new Poison Mushroom, run away from it if you like even a modicum of challenging, interesting platforming.

you don't even know how it will work in the game. tanooki suit was OP in 3D Land because the screen resolution was so small, there were only a few obstacles on the screen at a given time. balance was thrown out of the window because tanooki suit looked badass in 3D. might not be the case in this one. i can't remember, were the power ups overpowered in Galaxy 1/2? why wouldn't it be more similar mechanically to those games?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Tanooki suit the new Poison Mushroom, run away from it if you like even a modicum of challenging, interesting platforming.

I bet you hate Super Mario World.

 

[catstronaut]

you don't even know how it will work in the game. tanooki suit was OP in 3D Land because the screen resolution was so small, there were only a few obstacles on the screen at a given time. balance was thrown out of the window because tanooki suit looked badass in 3D. might not be the case in this one. i can't remember, were the power ups overpowered in Galaxy 1/2? why wouldn't it be more similar mechanically to those games?

Galaxy never let you keep the powerups for more than thirty seconds. I'd much rather have an overpowered Tanooki suit than items that the game hordes from me :\

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I bet you hate Super Mario World.

I don't like Super Mario World, a big reason being the totally OP Feather and big, open, easy levels over the tighter play control and compact, challenging level design of SMB3, you're correct.

 

[Darryl]

Galaxy never let you keep the powerups for more than thirty seconds. I'd much rather have an overpowered Tanooki suit than items that the game hordes from me :\

yea that's right i doubt they'll do that. power-ups are significantly less powerful in NSMB:U than NSMB2 though, because you can't store a power-up for later use in a level, you can just earn them for use in the main menu. the same situation will probably happen in 3D World.

 

[JoeM86]

Galaxy never let you keep the powerups for more than thirty seconds. I'd much rather have an overpowered Tanooki suit than items that the game hordes from me :\

The Ice Flower & Fire Flower, yes they were never for more than 30 seconds. Bee Mario, Boo Mario, Cloud Mario, Rock Mario Spring Mario...those all lasted longer than 30 seconds...

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I don't like Super Mario World, a big reason being the totally OP Feather and big, open, easy levels over the tighter play control and compact, challenging level design of SMB3, you're correct.

You must be a blast at parties.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

You must be a blast at parties.

good argument

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

That's kind of a dumb statement. Those were valid criticisms.

I guess if the power ups were literally forced onto you, yeah

Dumb to complain about things that are entirely optional. It's like complaining about the super guides in recent games

 

[ViewtifulJC]

If the super guides randomly popped out of ? blocks and levels/secrets were designed with their usage in mind, perhaps.

 

[Amakusa]

So... does Bowser still kid nap the princess? What the was last game where he did this?

 

[Exterminieren]

You must be a blast at parties.

Oh, stop being so fucking daft. He's allowed to dislike a Mario game, you know.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

So you have to artifically increase the difficulty of the game for it to be difficult? Is Pokemon a difficult game because you aren't forced to use any Pokemon other than Metapod?

The super guide punishes you for using it by not giving you the same rewards that you would receive if you beat the level yourself (no collectables, etc). It's different.

The game becomes easier if you use power ups. That's why they're called power ups.

If the super guides randomly popped out of ? blocks and levels/secrets were designed with their usage in mind, perhaps.

You don't automatically get the power up when it comes out of a block.

Levels and secrets being designed with them in mind should be good for you. More of a challenge to do it without the power up (hint: this is actually why power ups are good; the levels are designed with them in mind so it's harder to do it without them)

Sorry that video games aren't the exclusive club you want them to be

Oh, stop being so fucking daft. He's allowed to dislike a Mario game, you know.

Of course he is. But if his reason is "I can use the cape and fly over the top of all of the levels and make the game devoid of all platforming, so it's too easy. Please remove the cape" then he may want to reevaluate why he's playing video games in the first place

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The game becomes easier if you use power ups. That's why they're called power ups.



You don't automatically get the power up when it comes out of a block.

Levels and secrets being designed with them in mind should be good for you. More of a challenge to do it without the power up (hint: this is actually why power ups are good; the levels are designed with them in mind so it's harder to do it without them)

Sorry that video games aren't the exclusive club you want them to be



Of course he is. But if his reason is "I can use the cape and fly over the top of all of the levels and make the game devoid of all platforming, so it's too easy. Please remove the cape" then he may want to reevaluate why he's playing video games in the first place

Not all power-ups are created equal. The Tanooki suit isn't nearly the game-dominating superweapon the Cape is, nor are the levels built in larger spaces with less compact obstacles and challenges to accommodate the usage of the cape. Even if I'm not using the feather in SMW, the game is still boring to play due to it's looser play control and piss easy level design.

I don't like the game. It's ok. The world kept spinning, Carpe Libertatem.

 

[catstronaut]

The Ice Flower & Fire Flower, yes they were never for more than 30 seconds. Bee Mario, Boo Mario, Cloud Mario, Rock Mario Spring Mario...those all lasted longer than 30 seconds...

Yeah, you're right. They always felt so insubstantial to me, though. Maybe because they're worked in as part of the level design, and you can't take them between stages or use them in stages they're not meant for.

Also, I think there are certain challenges you can do that make games more fun, but good game design should have these challenges arise naturally whether or not the game is difficult overall, and generally it's bad game design if good players aren't using core aspects of the game. I think great players should be using all those tools to their fullest advantage in order to crush levels, tbh.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

That doesn't change my point. You're artifically increasing the difficulty of the game by not using them, and aren't punished for using them like you are the super guide.

Power ups are there for fun and variety in the game. Why would the game punish you for having fun?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

What disappoints me the most is that i was waiting to find out what nintendo could do with a system at least as powerful as the PS3/X360, and we get a higher IQ Wii game... maybe with their next system then... sigh...

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Not all power-ups are created equal. The Tanooki suit isn't nearly the game-dominating superweapon the Cape is, nor are the levels built in larger spaces with less compact obstacles and challenges to accommodate the usage of the cape. Even if I'm not using the feather in SMW, the game is still boring to play due to it's looser play control and piss easy level design.

I don't like the game. It's ok. The world kept spinning, Carpe Libertatem.

Of course it did. You seemed to think it revolved around you, though.

That doesn't change my point. You're artifically increasing the difficulty of the game by not using them, and aren't punished for using them like you are the super guide.

Why does it even matter if the difficulty is "artificially" increased or not?

If you think the game is too easy, there are options to make it harder. Don't complain if you don't use those options. Gaming is not an exclusive club for you and other "hardcore" gamers.

Also, I think there are certain challenges you can do that make games more fun, but good game design should have these challenges arise naturally whether or not the game is difficult overall, and generally it's bad game design if good players aren't using core aspects of the game. I think great players should be using all those tools to their fullest advantage in order to crush levels, tbh.

Apparently this just isn't fun to some people.

 

[SS4Gogita]

Not all power-ups are created equal. The Tanooki suit isn't nearly the game-dominating superweapon the Cape is, nor are the levels built in larger spaces with less compact obstacles and challenges to accommodate the usage of the cape. Even if I'm not using the feather in SMW, the game is still boring to play due to it's looser play control and piss easy level design.

I don't like the game. It's ok. The world kept spinning, Carpe Libertatem.

Game-dominating superweapon? Clearly we were playing different versions of the game.