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[Tathanen]

Not with an obvious troll trying to stir shit up.

Look at my posting history. You're embarrassing yourself.

I can tell that ND upgraded their lighting model quite a bit, and that they got better at modeling and texturing, like all developers on the same level of hardware over time. But I can still tell that it's the same level of hardware.

With SSBU, it's obvious that it cannot possibly in a million years be on the same upgraded-GC hardware that basically got by on stylized games and that not even Nintendo could pull a decent-looking real widescreen screenshot from. I mean, most of Brawl's screenshots on the Dojo and even on Nintendo's press site were 4:3, because like a lot of Wii games it looks like blurry poo in anamorphic widescreen.

I guess when I say early/late generation I'm speaking more in the abstract, as obviously I don't think the Wii could manage anything anything like this. But the fact remains, when I saw that fox screenshot, I thought "wow that looks like Brawl," and I looked up a Brawl screen, and it looked the same. Fox might be one of the primary offenders here honestly, while some of the model upgrades are certainly more noticeable (Pikachu sure looks a ton smoother, and Pit's wings are great), Fox I think actually IS the same model. Link's also virtually identical, barring the hair/face.

It's apparent that what you are looking for is not a conversation but for somebody to agree with you to affirm your opinion.

I was met at the start with "you're blind" and "troll," it's a bit tricky to try and maintain a productive conversation when that kind of idiotic tone has been set.

 

[leroidys]

I'd love to see Sonic get his "fly up in the air in a death pose" thing from falling off the bottom.

Yeah, I know Mario did it first, albeit not from bottomless pits. I don't care. :V

I prefer this version

this is the unquestionable champion

 

[squid]

We're just gonna have to disagree there.



Sure, "HD Brawl" was hyperbole, it definitely looks better. But it just doesn't look like a generational jump to me. Xenoblade to X looks like a generational jump. DKCR to DKCR:TF looks like a generational jump if you isolate entirely to DK's model with the fur and ignore the rest. Mario Kart sure as hell looks like one. But this? It looks hella fuckin clean and sharp, but I'm just not feelin it.



Do you have anything to fucking add to this conversation?

I'm curious as to what you think of Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale. Do you think that looks like a generational leap over Brawl? And do you think it looks as good as SSB4?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Yeah, wasn't this a bit of a problem with Playstation All Stars?

Link's model still seems off to me for some reason, but beyond that god I love the textures and colours and it's all so delicious.

Kinda. However I think it work for them since it didn't really bothered me.

 

[Forever]

Look at my posting history. You're embarrassing yourself.

I haven't yet claimed that Brawl and SSBU look like they came from the same hardware. I think I'm doing pretty well.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I haven't yet claimed that Brawl and SSBU look like they came from the same hardware. I think I'm doing pretty well.

Alright, we better cool it off with the argument before this thread is going to get locked because of drama.

 

[Tathanen]

I'm curious as to what you think of Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale. Do you think that looks like a generational leap over Brawl? And do you think it looks as good as SSB4?

I think it looks like complete shit. But it does have a few effects and lighting things going on in it that make it feel a bit more advanced than Brawl. SSBU's overall art design is leagues above it, but honestly I haven't ever really paid enough attention to PS All-Stars to give a more eloquent estimation. I do think a game can look "next-gen" and also look "like shit," though. See: Kameo.

I haven't yet claimed that Brawl and SSBU look like they came from the same hardware. I think I'm doing pretty well.

I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Do you selectively cut your reading around the "obviously ignoring the huge improvement in image quality" parts of my posts?

 

[astarisborn94]

Don't get me wrong, I loved Mewtwo in Melee and missed him in Brawl...but bringing back a first-party character from a previous installment would in no way be as big an announcement as a brand new character, especially another third party guest.

I'd argue that it would definitely be big news. Mewtwo is almost certainly the #1 most wanted character for the game; above Ridley, above King K. Rool, even above Mega Man. Mewtwo is also the most well-known character (aside from maybe Mii and Toad) that wasn't in Brawl. Mewtwo's inclusion would excite a massive amount of people; its the closest equivalent to Sonic for this game.

That said, Mewtwo will probably be relegated to unlockable status.

 

[Forever]

I don't recall ever saying anything like that.

It looks like what I would expect from an early-gen and late-gen game on the same hardware.

Yahuh.

Alright, we better cool it off with the argument before this thread is going to get locked because of drama.

Whatever man. Next he's going to act like those Brawl screenshots weren't taken from a high end PC.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I'd argue that it would definitely be big news. Mewtwo is almost certainly the #1 most wanted character for the game; above Ridley, above King K. Rool, even above Mega Man. Mewtwo is also the most well-known character (aside from maybe Mii and Toad) that wasn't in Brawl. Mewtwo's inclusion would excite a massive amount of people; its the closest equivalent to Sonic for this game.

That said, Mewtwo will probably be relegated to unlockable status.

Mewtwo is more likely to be unlockable status to surprise people who would be on black out mode. That's if he got in.

 

[Dug]

totally just brawl in hd

Pikachu looks a million times better compared to Brawl.

 

[Tan]

I think the boost in texture quality, lighting, resolution, etc. looks pretty significant so far but people need to realize the wii was a half-step so expecting a huge graphical leap for the WiiU follow up is kind of ridiculous.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I'd argue that it would definitely be big news. Mewtwo is almost certainly the #1 most wanted character for the game; above Ridley, above King K. Rool, even above Mega Man. Mewtwo is also the most well-known character (aside from maybe Mii and Toad) that wasn't in Brawl. Mewtwo's inclusion would excite a massive amount of people; its the closest equivalent to Sonic for this game.

That said, Mewtwo will probably be relegated to unlockable status.

I love Mewtwo, but I wouldn't quite go that far. I'm sure a lot if not the majority of people who want Mewtwo back want him due to Melee nostalgia (myself included). Hence, other characters like Mega Man and Ridley probably have more mainstream and casual fans asking for their inclusion.

also oh man spamming the smash community on miiverse is so much fun

EDIT: While I sort of agree that SSB4 isn't the huge jump Melee was (though I feel that's entirely due to striving for 1080/60fps which I'd gladly take over superficially higher-poly models), it's still an obviously significant jump from Brawl. Brawl's a fantastic looking game when played on Dolphin, but played on their native hardware Brawl was more just a refinement of Melee's visuals rather than the generation jump Melee and SSB4 feel like.

 

[guek]

Pikachu looks a million times better compared to Brawl.

Except I get the distinct feeling his model isn't even done since none of the shots show his mouth being animated

 

[Seik]

Pikachu looks a million times better compared to Brawl.

Wanted to post this right after I saw that pic.

It makes a perfect example of how different it looks.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Pikachu looks a million times better compared to Brawl.

Funny thing is that Pikachu look like he just jumped from Pokemon X/Y Direct into Smash 4.

Pikachu X/Y Direct

 

[Tathanen]

Yahuh.

So you're saying that yes, you are ignoring those parts. Got it.

Eh, I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that Sakurai and company are deliberately choosing to go with a visual style that refines rather than re-hauls the original art style and that's why you're dissatisfied.

This is probably the closest to the issue I'm having. Not that "the tech" is not living up to being next gen, but that it definitely looks like "Brawl cleaned up." Brawl introduced a ton of character design changes over Melee, and a pretty tweaked art style overall. SSBU here looks like it's just Brawl again, but smoothed and cleaned up. With the amount of additional power I'd have wanted to see more than that. Give me DK and Fox with DKCR:TF-caliber fur. Shit, even Star Fox Adventures level fur. Give me Skyward Sword Link, or at the very least not the exact same Link with a new face. If you want to keep the same general kind of art style that's fine, but I'm just not seeing any actual progression in that style here. Bowser standing up a little bit straighter is not cranking my gears.

 

[astarisborn94]

I love Mewtwo, but I wouldn't quite go that far. I'm sure a lot if not the majority of people who want Mewtwo back want him due to Melee nostalgia (myself included). Hence, other characters like Mega Man and Ridley probably have more mainstream and casual fans asking for their inclusion.

also oh man spamming the smash community on miiverse is so much fun

I'd argue that while Melee nostalgia certainly helps, that a large portion of people want Mewtwo because of other reasons as well. One thing to remember is that Mewtwo has made a strong return in prominence during the last Pokémon generation (only 1st get to get a move during the 5th gen IIRC), which has helped increase demand for Mewtwo's return. Another thing is the Eclaire form, which brings hope that Mewtwo will be made better should Mewtwo return.

Myself, I want to see Mewtwo back because I loved the first Pokémon movie as a child (want to see in Japanese since I heard it was much better) and because I liked the mystic in regards to Mewtwo being the reward Pokémon for beating the game. Of course the Eclaire form has only made me more excited for Mewtwo. Mewtwo's play style in Melee had nothing to do with it.

 

[DaBoss]

It doesn't look like Brawl at all. If you look at just Fox then it may be confusing, but looking at every other character with the coloring and textures you'll see it isn't as deliberately detailed as Brawl, but for a more simplistic look. That seems to be your issue. The models, lighting, and stages look better than Brawl's.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I don't understand how anyone could look at Smash 4 and say it looks just like Brawl, even just like a touched up Brawl. The art style is completely shifted. Brawl looks like every character was molded to fit with Snake, or another semi-realistic character - everything reeked of trying too hard to feel "gritty". Smash 4 looks much more like a natural extension of the Smash 64 and Melee art style, and looks absolutely gorgeous because of it.

The only character that looks particularly similar is Fox, whose model admittedly looks more or less ported from Brawl. But that's the exception, not the rule, and it's always worth pointing out that the game is still being worked on and, if Fox's vector art is anything to go by, there will definitely be some changes before release.

 

[qq more]

I want Mewtwo back because he's one of the most badass Pokemon ever IMHO. That and I feel that he deserves another chance to be in Smash. I was disappointed at how light he was in Melee, made him too easy to kill... That's not how Mewtwo should be done. He had a very cool moveset otherwise.

Spoiler

For the love of god, make his Forme optional.

 

[Kokonoe]

I want Mewtwo back because he's one of the most badass Pokemon ever IMHO. That and I feel that he deserves another chance to be in Smash. I was disappointed at how light he was in Melee, made him too easy to kill... That's not how Mewtwo should be done. He had a very cool moveset otherwise.

Spoiler

For the love of god, make his Forme optional.

Mewtwo being light was perfect, I loved that, he even had a unique L-dash. It was his moves and his move strength, not his floatyness.

The lightness actually is the perfect way to simulate his psychic powered flying. Like Ness, essentially.

 

[Hiltz]

I'm not bothered or very impressed by it to be honest. However, Mega Man in particular, looked adorably badass (is that an oxymoron?). Anyway, the game is at least a year way from release. We'll probably see an updated build later in the Fall.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

But the fact remains, when I saw that fox screenshot, I thought "wow that looks like Brawl," and I looked up a Brawl screen, and it looked the same. Fox might be one of the primary offenders here honestly, while some of the model upgrades are certainly more noticeable (Pikachu sure looks a ton smoother, and Pit's wings are great), Fox I think actually IS the same model.

I think you'd get a lot more people to agree with you if you'd actually just tone your argument down to Fox looking underwhelmingly similar to Brawl. Which I think we can all agree on.

 

[GAMERG0D]

I want Mewtwo back because he's one of the most badass Pokemon ever IMHO. That and I feel that he deserves another chance to be in Smash. I was disappointed at how light he was in Melee, made him too easy to kill... That's not how Mewtwo should be done. He had a very cool moveset otherwise.

Spoiler

For the love of god, make his Forme optional.

If his forme is there (Most likely it will be) it might be his final smash. I would think it would be like Wario's final smash, a temporary more powerful form.

 

[Tathanen]

It's kinda weird, but the Villager easily looks the most "next-gen" (vs Wii) of the whole cast to me. He is just perfectly smooth, has no blurry textures (though he's just very flat-colored overall so it's not saying much), and has this nice bloomey lighting going on over his whole model. He almost feels like he's been inserted from another game. Mega Man looks pretty amazing as well.

So there's a trend here. Brand-new characters: lookin fabulous. Returning-characters: not so much. So I am absolutely willing to accept that they were literally ported in from Brawl and varying amounts of work have been done on them so far. Like Samus: a ton of work. Link: just his face. Fox: nothing. So we might see a ton more here as development goes on, Sakurai was pretty explicit about the visuals being in-progress after all. I'm tempted to look at their official art on the website as a reason why they might NOT improve, though, since they're all on-model in reference to those images. But Pit's "official" Brawl model art changed on the Dojo from way back, from having hyper-detailed placeholder wings to ones that better matched his in-game ones, so I guess that reference art could change.

 

[DCDW]

Aren't they introducing a new "Mewthree" type character for X/Y? Maybe he could be added in place of Mewtwo

http://youtu.be/H-k1E83_nnU

 

[Kokonoe]

Aren't they introducing a new "Mewthree" type character for X/Y? Maybe he could be added in place of Mewtwo

http://youtu.be/H-k1E83_nnU

That's a forme of Mewtwo.

 

[astarisborn94]

I just looked at the close-up picture and wow, those are big really big differences between Brawl and Melee and I though both were good for their time. The Link comparison picture is especially prevalent.

I don't understand how anyone could look at Smash 4 and say it looks just like Brawl, even just like a touched up Brawl. The art style is completely shifted. Brawl looks like every character was molded to fit with Snake, or another semi-realistic character - everything reeked of trying too hard to feel "gritty". Smash 4 looks much more like a natural extension of the Smash 64 and Melee art style, and looks absolutely gorgeous because of it.

The only character that looks particularly similar is Fox, whose model admittedly looks more or less ported from Brawl. But that's the exception, not the rule, and it's always worth pointing out that the game is still being worked on and, if Fox's vector art is anything to go by, there will definitely be some changes before release.

Remember when Pit had a different art style in Brawl after his reveal and how it changed in-game? Pretty much shows that the game obviously isn't done yet

 

[IntelliHeath]

It's kinda weird, but the Villager easily looks the most "next-gen" (vs Wii) of the whole cast to me. He is just perfectly smooth, has no blurry textures (though he's just very flat-colored overall so it's not saying much), and has this nice bloomey lighting going on over his whole model. He almost feels like he's been inserted from another game. Mega Man looks pretty amazing as well.

Sakurai said that visual are subjected to change/improve. It's obvious that they are still working on the game.

 

[GamerSoul]

I'm not bothered or very impressed by it to be honest. However, Mega Man in particular, looked adorably badass (is that an oxymoron?). Anyway, the game is at least a year way from release. We'll probably see an updated build later in the Fall.

I remember Sakurai saying it's not the final build for the game so it could look even better. I'm totally ok with how it looks right now honestly. It's colorful, vibrant and already looks great enough to last for a looong time.

 

[Dr.Thunder]

Nintendo somehow manages to have their games always look better in motion than in screens.

 

[Weiner Whistle]

Uncharted 1: http://0.tqn.com/d/playstation/1/0/P/9/UnchartedDrakesFortuneamazonruins.jpg

Uncharted 3: http://www.takuchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/uncharted3drakesdecepwx5kv.jpg

You're gonna tell me the difference from Brawl to Wii U is bigger than this?

I mean if you're gonna compare huge zoom-ins of characters that usually take up about a 15th of the height of your screen, you're gonna see plenty of differences. But the actual gameplay footage of the SSBU? With the context of the stage, zoomed out, in normal play? This is not "oh wow, next-gen smash bros."

I see huge improvements in the detail and lighting of Battlefield compared to the version in Brawl.

The visual quality will certainly be improved and polished over the coming months. By next E3, this game will look absolutely amazing (right now, it only looks stunning).

 

[squid]

I have to say, I love the way Mario looks in this game. I kinda wish that was his standard style for all WiiU games actually...

 

[DCDW]

FFS! No more games with a virtual sun that completely inhibits your view of anything on the screen! PLEASE! I know that's how it works in real life, but from a gameplay aspect (especially a fighter) it's garbage.

 

[KittenMaster]

This is probably the closest to the issue I'm having. Not that "the tech" is not living up to being next gen, but that it definitely looks like "Brawl cleaned up." Brawl introduced a ton of character design changes over Melee, and a pretty tweaked art style overall. SSBU here looks like it's just Brawl again, but smoothed and cleaned up. With the amount of additional power I'd have wanted to see more than that.

The art and character design direction pretty much peaked with Brawl. It's really a wonder of a Wii game where they were able to convey characters so well and pushed its generational boundary. Even Xenoblade doesn't have as well defined character models which is probably why you see more of a gap between it and X.

So unless they wanted to pull a Wind Waker or Skyward Sword, it's only natural that improvements and more power manage to refine the style further.

Spoiler

lol, fox

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The visual quality will certainly be improved and polished over the coming months. By next E3, this game will look absolutely amazing (right now, it only looks stunning).

Wow, is that SSB4's Battlefield? I'm not convinced that the characters have gone through as of a graphical evolution as I would have liked (though they look distinctly better), but I think the Wii U stages in particular will look amazing.

 

[qq more]

Mewtwo being light was perfect, I loved that, he even had a unique L-dash. It was his moves and his move strength, not his floatyness.

The lightness actually is the perfect way to simulate his psychic powered flying. Like Ness, essentially.

Oh, I see. I hope they buff him a good deal if he gets in this game.

 

[Freezie KO]

Then why have any unlockables at all when someone will be frustrated no matter which character is put behind the content barrier?

I agree. No unlockables!

...

I wish...

 

[Boss Doggie]

Same here. It felt so right, and I think they did same thing for Zero in MVC3.

Aaaand another poster forgot how TvC did it first. And properly too.

MvC made Megaman (and Roll) pop only after a certain time, otherwise they leave their bodies. TvC did it properly first by having Roll (and then Zero in the re-release) pop after being struck with a KO-ing hit much like in the games. MvC3 copied it... but failed again with Strider Hiryu. In the games, Strider Hiryu explodes upon dying but apparently MvC3 copied MvC instead of making Hiryu fresh in animation. Hell, even the music was copy-paste. Namco X Capcom had the perfect Strider Hiryu.

???? I don't get it???

Fandom to what? Circle-jerk? Wat.

Remember who you're talking to.

My English may not be eloquent but my point is pretty much there, that I find it funny you people didn't get it.

Brawl+ was originally a way to make Brawl play using Melee physics. Eventually however the fandom became holier-than-thou and started adding crap in Project M, turning it into "Hah! We make this better than Sakurai by adding shit what the fans (tm) want!"

Maybe poor wording, but it wouldn't exactly be unfair to say that there's a bit of an echo chamber in the competitive Smash community, and that they were maybe a bit overzealous in their "true to Melee" approach that they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

This guy gets it.

Funny thing is that Pikachu look like he just jumped from Pokemon X/Y Direct into Smash 4.

Pikachu X/Y Direct

Yeah, that's what I thought too lol

I seriously can't believe people are saying that 4 isn't a huge leap.

I agree. No unlockables!

...

I wish...

Why do people detest unlocking?

See, part of the problem is that people already know who is being unlocked. If Sakurai played his cards right, secret characters will remain secret and thus giving incentive to unlock.

 

[Drago]

Unlockables are one of my favorite things about Smash Bros. I'd be devastated if they got rid of them in SSB4.

 

[Choppasmith]

Eh, speaking of Brawl vs SSB4, the Brawl hacking community has started reverse engineering the Wii-U looks of the characters. Although some are pretty laughably lazy, KTH in particular is doing a real bang up job. He's only done Pikachu and Mario so far.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

See, part of the problem is that people already know who is being unlocked. If Sakurai played his cards right, secret characters will remain secret and thus giving incentive to unlock.

I think the only secret characters we knew about before the Japanese release (not counting leaks) were the third-party characters, Ness, and Marth. Other than that, the only reason we found out the rest of the game's roster early was because the game didn't have a simultaneous international release and Sakurai started "spoiling" stuff on the Dojo as soon as the game was out in Japan.

 

[Freezie KO]

Why do people detest unlocking?

See, part of the problem is that people already know who is being unlocked. If Sakurai played his cards right, secret characters will remain secret and thus giving incentive to unlock.

Because for me, the fun of the game should be in the gameplay. If Subspace Emissary was fun to play, I would play it regardless of whether or not it unlocked something. If it's fun to play 300 matches, then I don't need a carrot to do so.

I bought the game. Just let me play without the hassle. Plus, when I jump online or if I ever have someone over to play, I want to be able to choose from all the content. I don't want to be locked out because I didn't fulfill some arbitrary condition beforehand.

 

[Jintor]

Unlock everything cheat code for those who don't want to futz around

unlocks for the rest of us who do

done

 

[Kokonoe]

Eh, speaking of Brawl vs SSB4, the Brawl hacking community has started reverse engineering the Wii-U looks of the characters. Although some are pretty laughably lazy, KTH in particular is doing a real bang up job. He's only done Pikachu and Mario so far.

http://i.imgur.com/9MzYvJI.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/VPswnFT.png[MG][/QUOTE]

Pretty cool, would be nice to see some 1080p Dolphin shots out of this.

 

[TreIII]

Because for me, the fun of the game should be in the gameplay. If Subspace Emissary was fun to play, I would play it regardless of whether or not it unlocked something. If it's fun to play 300 matches, then I don't need a carrot to do so.

I bought the game. Just let me play without the hassle. Plus, when I jump online or if I ever have someone over to play, I want to be able to choose from all the content. I don't want to be locked out because I didn't fulfill some arbitrary condition beforehand.

Exactly.

The other thing I have a problem with is this: ever since Brawl made it so that saves were locked onto the console itself? It made it even more of a hassle to transport the game and play with friends. Back with 64, it was as simple as bringing the game cart with me. Melee, my memory card and the game (if nobody else had a copy, which was a rare thing at my college game room). With Brawl, I had to bring the damn Wii and game with me.

And suppose the worst happens and the console got bricked/damaged beyond repair/etc. (one of which happened to me)? Well, sucks to be me, because I gotta go back and UNLOCK EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN.

It's completely inconvenient, and goes against the entire notion of how I should be able to pick up, set up and play.

So, either give me back my option to upload my game save to a memory card again, or otherwise make it so players won't be penalized if the worst happens.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Because for me, the fun of the game should be in the gameplay. If Subspace Emissary was fun to play, I would play it regardless of whether or not it unlocked something. If it's fun to play 300 matches, then I don't need a carrot to do so.

I bought the game. Just let me play without the hassle. Plus, when I jump online or if I ever have someone over to play, I want to be able to choose from all the content. I don't want to be locked out because I didn't fulfill some arbitrary condition beforehand.

And what about us who want unlockables, hm?

Unlock everything cheat code for those who don't want to futz around

unlocks for the rest of us who do

done

Hilariously enough, Narutimate Hero games do that.

 

[Tesseract]

any word on online yet?

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Smash Bros. has decent enough single-player content that I'm fine having to unlock a bunch of characters. I can understand why people wouldn't want to do it, though, especially considering the way saves are handled now, so I'm fine whether they include unlocks or not. It's not like something like Street Fighter 4 or Marvel vs. Capcom 2 where there's no reason to have a ton of unlockables.